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Found 245 results

  1. This is an idea that came to me rather suddenly and given how little we know of Hemalurgy this will be pure speculation that contains a lot of "is this possible"-questions and no answers. Also I´m open to little tidbits about Hemalurgy that I missed which woud contradict any of this. First of all came the question "what happens to a hemalurgic spike if it stay in your body?" Given that the spike woud add a part of your soul to the one being spiked it seem resonable that you can also "keep" your soul if the spike stays in you and getting spiked didn´t kill you. Next I wonderd if a spike like this coud be shared, for example if one uses two needles connected by a thred all frome the same metal and melted together as one piece. Woud this not work because the spike rejects the second subject or create some kind of soullink between the two people being spiked. (Which woud then have to be called either hemalurgic twins or Spikebros.) If it works what woud the effects of this link be? Thelephaty, similar to what Harmony does with his spiked followers, or maybe a cognitive or spirital link. Coud the spike be removed from the second spike victim or woud his soul also bind to the sipke? And lastly this lead me to Feruchemy. If such a link were possible coud an Feruchemist with hemalurgic knowledge spike another person, not even neccesarily a Feruchmist, and use him as a "battery" for his metalminds and coud he tap them after cutting the link? Coud he only use certain atributes or coud he steal things like identity (literaly) and memory? Maybe this coud be used for murder by storing breath and making the victim suffocate or to transfer ones mind into another body. (Why must the two examples I can thing of right now be so villan like?) Any thoughts or destructive holes in this speculation?
  2. I had a thought that I thought it was too interesting to pass up. One of the properties of hemalurgy is to steal attributes from other people. It works because they have flowing blood I believe it was. Blood being the catalyst... Could you potentially use that same property to some how spike a person through their metalminds and perform the hemalugical equivalent of compounding? You get the sum of their metalminds at a loss combined with whatever you steal from them... and essentially alloy the two to enhance the output of the the spike's attribute? Its a bit convoluted and not well thought out but seems like something that you could throw at the wall and get it to stick. Possibly relating to the mechanical side of the metallic arts of southern scadrial? By taking a piece of that person when you spike them, you fool the metalmind's investiture into thinking you're the owner... allowing you to compound the hemalurgic attribute. Magical hacking as it were.
  3. So I was thinking about how hemalurgic spikes worked, and came up with this theory: if a hemalurgic spike was Awakened then it would be able to use the powers it had stolen. For example, since hemalurgy can steal from any magic system then you could spike a soul caster, embed a gemstone in the spike to hold stormlight, and have some sort of auto-soulcasting system that could trigger on contact. Since spikes don't have to maintain their original shape, you could make a floor plate that soulcasts anything that steps on it into smoke. Of course, I don't know if you can Awaken an already invested object, but this could have some interesting uses. Any thoughts?
  4. I'm not sure if we're allowed to talk about excerpts Brandon has read from unpublished works, but he links to the video of him reading it on his website, so I figured it might be ok. If not please let me know. Anyway, in his reading of Shadows of Self there seems to be a book that is written by Marsh about Hemalurgy. That in itself is cool, because it means we might find out more about the most mysterious of the Metallic Arts, but the small portion of it we get to hear sounds like Marsh is saying that Hemalurgy has changed and that it's no longer evil. I'm wondering what exactly he means by that, and what all is involved with the change. Is the change simply that those with hSpikes in them now hear Harmony instead of Ruin? I've been wondering about that, and I don't think all of the violence and sadism of the Koloss and the Inquisitors could be from Ruin whispering in their ears. I think I saw someone else hint at this idea before, but basically it's that those with an hSpike get a little of the intent (either Ruin or Harmony) which constantly affects them, even when not actually hearing the whispers. The stronger the mind of the person the more they can resist this intent, hence the reason Ruin frequently had to focus on Marsh. So, is this change simply that the whispers and the intent coming through the hSpike is now Harmony? Or has more changed about Hemalurgy? After all, if that's all that's changed, there's still the fact that Hemalurgy is as Marsh put it "messy". Could something have changed to make it less so? Perhaps the spikes no longer have to go through the person's heart to steal investiture from them? Perhaps it could go through other parts of their bodies, which they have a chance of surviving? Or perhaps it's changed in some other way? I don't know. Anyway, food for thought.
  5. Yes this about shardblades, but it's pretty heavy in realmantic theory and it relates to Mistborn, so I'm putting it in Cosmere theories. Before discussing my main theory, I want to take about the mechanics of shardblades. I don't know if this has been discussed else where, but for the sake of clarity, here's the idea that I've based the rest if my theory on. Shardblades cut things by affecting them in the Spiritual Realm. Essentially, it is just a really sharp blade in the Spiritual Realm that can cut most things also in that realm. So, when a shardbearer slices a rock in the Physical Realm, in the Spiritual the shardblade cuts the rocks spiritual essence in half, which, by realmantic voodoo, means the rocks physical aspect is seamlessly cut in two. With living things, its a bit more complecated. Basically if you cut someones arm with a shardblade, their spiritual arm is severed, resulting in the physical essentially dying. When someone is cut in a vital area (i.e. spine or face) their spiritual aspect stops working, so their physical body dies. (As a tangent, this would mean most forms of healing Investiture could not heal shardblade wounds, since, as I understand it, healing magic works by restoring the body to its ideal state. i.e. its spiritual aspect. Since the spiritual aspect is armless, tapping gold, if anything, would make your physical arms fall off). Things like shardplate (and hypothetically other invested items) are resistant because of the weird investiture-interference principle. That was longer than I thought it would be...Anyway, the main idea that I wanted to bring up is that if shardblades function essentially as I described above, then could you possibly use a sharblade to preform sort of spiritual surgery similar to Hemalurgy? Basically you would stab someone at a bindpoint and the shardblade severs whatever spiritual essence is there that Hemalurgy would steal. Hypothtically, if you hit just the bindpoint precisly enough, you would leave the person more or less intact. Since Hemalurgy is universal, it stands to reason that anything that can affect things spiritualy should be able to preform a similar function. Although, it wouldn't really be considered Hemalurgy because you can't steal anything, but say you wanted to non-lethally stop a Mistborn, you just slice out his Mistborn-sDNA, leaving him alive but without any powers. Whether this is feasible is another matter. For instance, you'd probably wan't a shardscalpel or something to get the precision needed to hit the bindpoints. This probably isn't something you could do with a normal, giant-sized shardblade, but I thought it sounded cool. Any thoughts on either half of this theory? Edit: Hmm...I misspelled 'shardblades' in the tags. Any idea how to fix that?
  6. Ok, so I was thinking about invested objects we have seen in the Cosmere to try and find some commonalities in order to gain some insight into the construction and nature of Shardblades and Shardplate. The big headline invested objects we know of are: Nightblood Metalminds Hemalurgic Spikes Fabrials (modern) Making Invested ObjectsFirstly, we know how Nighblood, Metalminds, Spikes and Fabrials are made: Nightblood was a regular sword invested with a huge number of breaths (1000?) and given a Command. The breaths provide the investiture and the Command is the focus of Nalthian magic. Metalminds - The Feruchemist 'saves' an attribute into the appropriate metal for use later. The investiture comes from the Feruchemist and the focus is the metal. Hemalurgic Spikes – the appropriate metal is stabbed into (or through?) an individual with the appropriate power, in the correct location and therefore gets charged with the power. This can them be grafted onto the recipient by stabbing them with the spike (again on the correct location). The Investiture comes from the donor and the metal is again the focus. Fabrials (modern) – A spren is trapped in a gem that is cut in a certain way and mounted in a framework. The cut and type of gem determines the species spren that is trapped and the framework determines the final application of power available. In this case the Spren seems to be providing the investiture and focus seems to be the gemstone. (I am far less certain about this as the metal framework seem to have an impact on the application of the final fabrial). In all the cases above, the common theme is that they all began life as mundane objects, even if specific materials or shapes were required. This may seem obvious but I think it is worth noting. Invested Objects in ActionWhen we look at the various types of invested objects in use, there are also some general commonalities. Nightblood – Acts as a self aware sword and consumes breath from the wielder. In this case, I believe the Breath is acting as a power source for Nightblood’s abilities. Fabrials (modern) – Have a single function as defines by the makeup. IT is not explicitly stated I the book but I have always assumed that the gemstones in the fabrial must be infused for them to work. This would be consistent with our knowledge of how magic works on Roshar. Therefore the Stormlight is acting as a power source for the fabrial’s abilities. Metalminds – Returns stored attributes for use. No real power source here, I think, due to the end neutral nature of Feruchemy. You can only use what you store so there is no need for a power source. Spikes – Imbue recipient with power though spiking. Again no power source required since it is end negative. The maximum you could graft to the recipient is the total of what you stole from the donor. This is more shaky ground but I believe each end positive result requires an active power source to make the objects function as required. Shardblades and ShardplateSo now I come to the theory aspect of my post. First, I believe that both Plate and Blade are end positive as we do not see any diminishing qualities in either of these. Neither do thay seem to have a trade off of power with the holder / wearer. So looking at the above discussions I have come to the following conclusions. Plate / Blade started life as regular swords / armor and were invested afterwards making / forging. (Given the ornate nature of many blades, they may have been carved in wood and then soulcast into metal before being invested). Given this is it logical that different weapons could be invested in the same manner. So swords were merely a convention with the KR rather than a necessity of construction. By the same logic a ShardShield (along similar lines to Plate) would also be possible. Blades draw power / stormlight from somewhere*. Plate is clearly powered by stormlight in the form of gemstones (if it was powered differently in the past, I believe it still required a power source). I am not going to theorise about how this investiture occurs. Maybe one of the Surges / Orders we have not yet seen allows the constriction of the Blade / Plate. Maybe only a full KR is able to make them. Maybe a spren needs to sacrifice itself to make them. Maybe the Heralds made them. Maybe a wizard did it! The big question to answer this is: What is the focus of magic on Roshar? Either way I think the above are fairly logical conclusions Why do you guys think? (* I suppose a possible work around to this could be that the investiture of the blades makes it special abilities properties of the blade rather than abilities. However given that the Plate does not behave this way, I think it unlikely)
  7. A question occurred to me while rereading AoL. If a Twinborn were turned into a koloss through hemalurgy would he retain his abilities as a Twinborn? Which led to the same question about Mistings, Ferrings, Mistborn, and full Feruchemists. I don't see logical reasons for them to lose their abilities, since hemalurgy steals part of someone else's spirit web and attaches it to yours. Which wouldn't seem like it would cause you to lose your own abilities as you're adding to yourself, but we have never seen a created koloss use Allomancy or Feruchemy. So I was curious what other peoples thoughts were, because an a-bendalloy f-steel koloss sounds awesome.
  8. Hello everybody! This is my 2nd topic to post on this site, so forgive me if this has already been said but I thought I could point out the connections between the magic systems in the hope that we can learn how they relate to each other and the rest of the Cosmere. And I apologize in advanced, but this will be a very long post. Unfortunately, I have not read from the Emperor's Soul, so I will not be able to speak to the power of Forging. If someone would like to add that into the comments, I would be appreciative. I will add a Tl;Dr section at the bottom for those not interested in reading the full post. I would like to reflect the opinions of everyone who wants to add input, this forum page is a place for discussion, as such please be respectful of everyone's opinions. If you disagree, I would be happy to reflect your opinion on this post. To skip the explanation of all the magic systems, please feel free to Control+F "Connection" there will be a header that is bolded, italicized and underlined. Obviously, this topic will contain spoilers for Elantris, Warbreaker, Mistborn, and Way of Kings, if you prefer to read the book first, I do suggest you book mark this page so you can return to it once you have read all the books, thank you! I'm going to list a quick survey of the magic systems together so we can compare/ contrast them. I would absolutely love to hear any input or conjectures, no matter how big or small. So let's get started then: Elantris: Aon Dor: the magic of drawing Aons to access the Dor, a powerful pervasive magic that is focused through the massive Aon Rao which is Elantris and the surrounding areas. Notable Features: The Shaod will pick people in the surrounding areas of Arelon or Teod and transform them into Demi Gods of sorts, able to use Aon Dor. Once taken by the Shaod, the person's skin turns into silver and their hair turns a pure white. There is a connection between Aon Dor and Seons. The Fuel: The Dor having been accessed by Aons. ChayShan: the Magic of accessing the Dor to increase the Martial prowess. Known to the Jindoeese. Notable Features: this magic system was shown, only briefly, at the end of the book of Elantris. However, we know that similarly to AonDor, those who use the power rely on some sort of body gestures and motions (in this case a martial art) to access the Dor. Its effects seem to speed the martial artist up and giving them incredible power. So much, that Shuden was able to break the bones of a Dakhor monk. The Fuel: The Dor having been accessed through a combination of martial arts and meditation. Dakhor: the magic of enhancing the skeletal system and improving the body's capabilities far beyond what normal peoples should ever be able to accomplish. It does this by somehow by probably accessing the Dominion's gateway to the Dor. Notable Features: only the Dakhor monks in Fjorden have ever been known to have this power. While it doesn't necessarily seem to be based on location, I assume that the knowledge of how to access this power is a heavily guarded secret kept by the Dakhor Monastery. The abilities include teleportation, the ability to enhance the human body by shaping the skeletal structure. The structure of the bones seems to change the varying levels of power in this system. It also has the ability to wipe out Aons. -Thanks to Kurkistan for the Corrections. The Fuel: A willing human being must sacrifice himself. The Mistborn Trilogy and The Mistborn Adventures, book one: Allomancy: a magic that consumes metals to various effects. This magic comes from Preservation. Notable Features: Allomancy is an incredibly fun magic system in which the user can "burn" metals to push or pull on metals, forcibly change someone's emotions, hide themselves, find other Allomancers (and possibly find other uses of magics from other worlds, though this is speculation), strengthen their bodies and senses, affect their own stores (and those of others) of metals by depleting them or using them in a single burst of power, forsee the future and lastly affect time by slowing it down or speeding it up. This type of magic is genetic and becomes deluded after generations. Fuel: The fuel for Allomany comes from Preservation's power using metals as a "focus" for that power similar to how Aons focused the Dor's power. -Thanks to Kurkistan for the corrections. Feruchemy: the magic of Harmony. It relies on storing up an attribute into metals for later use. The use of this magic can be used to multiply the attributes several fold, but doing so drains the user quickly. Notable Features: Feruchemy is an end neutral magic system. BioChroma might be end-neutral, also. If the user can store up enough of an attribute, s/he can expend it very powerfully for a short time, until an equilibrium has been reached. The user can store or use the following attributes: Speed, Strength, Mental Speed, Health, Memory, Weight, Age, Senses, Warmth, Wakefulness, Spiritual Connection, Identity, Fortune, Investiture, Nutrition and Calories, and finally Breath. -Thanks to Kurkistan for the corrections and the link. Fuel: the user must store up these attributes into a metalmind of the correct alloy, then they can use that storage at a later time. Hemalurgy: the parasitic magic that can steal potentially any magic ability from any user given the right alloy of the spike, the knowledge of where to place the spike and I supposed the sadism to even use the magic. It is a "messy" magic. Notable Features: Hemalurgy steals magic from the magic user. The longer the spike is outside of a body, the more magic is lost. It is the only end-negative system in the Cosmere, so far, but it is highly possible that there will be another. When impailed with Hemalurgic spikes, the host of the spike can hear Ruin's or Harmony's intent. Given enough spikes, the host will be unable to act on their own as the intent becomes much more powerful and can overcome the free will of the subject. It's "an oddity in the cosmere". -Thanks to Kurkistan for the correction and the link. Fuel: the magic kills the Magic user and steals his power and is placed into the new host. So the fuel is either the blood, the life, or both of the host. The Way of Kings: Book one of the Stormlight Archive: Surgebinding: the magic of using Surges. There are various effects of this magic and the user can use only two, based on the Ten Essences The Ten Surges, as shown in the Knight's Radiant Table (Currently [though subject to change]: Surface Tension, Transportation, Transformation, Light, Grown, Friction, Division, Pressure, and Gravity). Users can affect Gravity, Heal, Lightweave, Soulcast without Fabrials, and can do many other things yet unknown. - Thanks to Kurkistan for the Corrections. Notable Features: All of these Magic use Stormlight and are only usable to the Knights Radiant. This magic system has not been fully explored and much of the details are unknown at this point. However there seems to be a connection between using the power, and having an Honor Spren. Though it is worth note that not all "Bond Spren" are "Honor Spren". -Thanks to Kurkistan and Gloom for the Corrections. Fuel: Stormlight, some magic left behind in the wake of a High Storm that is stored in Gems. Old Magic: Little is known about the Old Magic. We do know that they are some how tied to the Nightwatcher Voidbinding: Again, little is known about Void Binding and I will be sure to add in the information when it becomes available. Shardblades: Though more is known about Shardblades than the previous two magic Systems, there is still a great deal of mystery shrouding the blades. From what we do know, the blades were wielded by the Knights Radiant, but were abandoned on the Day of Recreance. They do not cut living flesh, but the soul it self. I could fully describe them, but it would be better to read the Wiki Article as the information there is fantastic. Warbreaker: BioChroma: is an interesting type of magic that requires the uses of Breath. Having different amounts of Breath can passively increase the wielder's ability to detect perfect hues of colors, gain perfect pitch, sense the Breath of others, Awaken without words, Agelessness, and Distort Colors among many other things. These various stages of Breath are referred to as Heightenings Every person on Nalthis is born with a single Breath given by the Shard Endowment. They can sell or give away their Breath to anyone else. People can then use these Breaths to perform a magic called Awakening, whereby they temporarily store their breath into an inanimate object and give it a command to obey. Notable Features: Awakening works best when the object is "human shaped" and organic. The closer the semblance to a human, the less Breaths are required to Awaken the object. Though, theoretically, nothing is impossible to Awaken, given the expertise and enough breaths to perform the awakening. -Thanks to Kurkistan for the corrections. Fuel: Breath (kinda). As the Breaths are not consumed in the process of Awakening, rather they are borrowed and then later returned. Some, however, believe that the fuel for Awakening is color. However it is worth noting that if this were the case, it would only be the initial fuel for the awakening as the magic does not rely on the constant draining of color to continue. At the Highest known heightenings, it is possible to use more color for awakening. -Thanks to Kurkistan and Robot Aztec for the corrections. I should note that the next three items on this list are simply an extension of BioChroma and not necessarily a new magic system unto their own. Returned: When a person dies a particularly virtuous way, they can be returned to life with a single, powerful BioChromatic Breath. In order to sustain themselves, they consume one Breath per week. They are the utmost Ideal of physical form. The men are tall and muscled, well formed, and the women are the embodiment of beauty. They can give up their one Breath to cure anyone of anything. The God King is a different type of returned but nevertheless, still a returned of a sort. -Thanks to Kurkistan for the corrections. Lifeless: these are not returned, they are simply a corpse that has been awakened to follow it's master's bidding. - Thanks to Kurkistan for the corrections. Nightblood: Nightblood is a sword that has been Awakened with BioChromatic Breath. It wants to "destroy evil" though, because it is a sword, does not understand exactly what evil is. Feel free to read the Wiki to understand the various facts about Nightblood. Ok, now we will explore the connections between the various Magic Systems: Let's start by grouping the Magic systems by how they are inherited or obtained. Magics obtained through inheritance (genetics, locations): Allomancy, Feruchemy, BioChroma (kind of) Aon Dor (though, I suspect with these two that the location only matters because Devotion is shattered), ChayShan Magics obtained though endowment (picked randomly or otherwise to ascend to power): Aon Dor through the Shaod, BioChroma via the Returned, Surgebinding, and Voidbinding (presumably) Magics obtained through taking someone's life force: Hemalurgy, Dakhor, and BioChroma (again! but this time by taking someone's Breath and/or absorbing color of nearby objects with the possibility of taking it from human flesh... looking at you Nightblood.) As you can see, there aren't a terrible lot of differences in the means of obtaining the powers. So let's take a second to explore some of the similarities. In Aon Dor, when one is taken by the Shaod, there is a visable change in their coloring. They get white hair and silver skin. We presume the one gets taken by the Shaod for having considerable Devotion to something. In BioChroma, the Returned come with just one Breath, like normal, except that this Breath is so powerful that colors seems to glow much brighter and more pure in their presence. Similarly to Aon Dor, the Returned are chosen to come back based on some Virtue that they possessed. In Surgebinding, the user glows when he holds in Stormlight, while there isn't a large difference in appearance (other than the the eye color changing to become a "Lighteyes") a Surgebinder is picked to become such when they display incredible acts of Honor Virtue. - Thanks to Kurkistan and Gloom for the correction and the link. My guess is that Voidbinding would be doable if one exhibited supreme hatred, thought this is speculation. Otherwise powers are obtained via location, heritage or simply by stealing someone else's power. We will get into that in a bit. Now let's take a look at the various storage of Fuels and their similarities. The majority stores their powers in Gems, Metals, and Bones. Though the powers vary on effects and uses, the method of storing excess power is similar. Allomancy: Metals Feruchemy: Attributes stored in Metals Hemalurgy: Power stolen; stored in Metals Surgebinding: Stormlight stored in gemstones Soulcasting with a Fabrial: the fuel is probably Stormlight stored in gemstones, but I imagine the cost is offset the Spren. Dakhor: The fuel is a human life, it is stored in human bones. Aon Dor: The Dor, a pervasive magic on the World of Sel. It acts differently as it isn't really stored so much as it is released. Probably similar to the Well of Ascension. BioChroma: Breath, kind of. In this regard, BioChroma acts differently. There really isn't a "fuel" for their power and it can technically be stored in anything. It even acts conversely against the other metals (IE storing Breath in Metal or rock is actually quite hard, its much easier to store it in something that was once living, similarly to Dakhor.) I believe that the fuel for the power of BioChroma is offset by Endowment, not unlike the Dor. It has been noted that the particular storage of fuel, be it in metal, gems or bones, could be irrelevant, and it could simply be a different method for a different world. However, given that the Shards created those worlds (and presumably the method of storing their power) it could have some relevance. - Thanks Kurkistan for the commentary. Alright let's evaluate the various Investitures that the Shards give to their Creations: Ok this is a bit harder to explain, this group evaluates the similar ways that the Shards invested themselves into a planet. For Example, the Seons and the Spren are the direct result of the Shards reducing their power (Seons, it seems were actually a result of the shattering of Aona [Devotion], and logic dictates that Spren could be similarly created. Though the origin of Spren seems to be a rather large debate with too few facts to say for certain) Seons and Spren are a particular life that exudes the influence of the Shard, presumably, and retains some of their power. Just to clarify, some examples of this power are the Seon's ability to communicate like a telephone and the Spren's ability to change size, shape and form. Furthermore, on Scadrial, humanity is, in part, different than everywhere else because they have a bit more Preservation inside of them. Then on Nalthis, Endowment has endowed (wow shocker) humanity with breath but even more powerfully, Endowment gives a very powerful Breath to the Returned to bring them back to life. We don't have a ton of information on the investiture of the Shards into the races in Way of Kings but we do have the Aimians who can change the form of their bodies not unlike the Spren that exist on that planet. I can't imagine that Shinovar doesn't have a large touch from Cultivation, but that's speculation. The point is, that the Shards have all invested themselves into their creations. We know from Preservation that this weakens them. This may be the way that Odium can be stronger than the other Shards as we can only really attribute the Voidbringers to his power, definitely not a full planet filled with life. - Thanks to Kurkistan, WeiryWriter, and Shardlet for the input and links. These Magics Grant Sentience: In Way of Kings, Syl slowly gained her sentience as her bond with Kaladin grew stronger. In Warbreaker, Nightblood gained his sentience through the vast amount of Breaths he received when he was Awakened. It would also be interesting to note, that while humans can Awaken, Endowment can Awaken granting full sentience rather than partial robotic following of a single imperative 90% sentience. - Thanks to Kurkistan for the corrections. In the Mistborn books, the Koloss and the Kandra both received their sentience when Hemalurgy was used on them. In Elantris, the Seons received their sentience from the Aon that glowed at their core. It would seem I am mistaken about the sentience of the Seons. It actually comes because they are Splinters of Aona (Devotion) IE the Dor's power was channeled in a way that gave them cognizance. - Thanks to Kurkistan for the correction and the link. While BioChroma remains King on investing mundane Items with Magic, it most certainly isn't alone: In Elantris, Aon Dor, by simply drawing an Aon on something, you turned something mundane into something magical. Need a light? Draw Aon Ashe on the wall. Want a Flamethrower or a Torch? Draw Aon Ehe on an object. Et Cetera. In Warbreaker, the Awakener could simply Awaken an object with a set of instructions for the Awakened item to obey. It temporarily took breath, but the item would do as commanded. You could also do this to a corpse and create a lifeless servant to follow and obey you. Do take note that a dead body acts very differently than a live one. This rule is the same with shardblades. In Mistborn, while you couldn't make items universally magical to all who held them, Feruchemy stored their magic in the metals, Hemalurgy stored the magic in the metals and an Allomancer could burn metals to produce magic. This becomes important to note. Most of us understand the mechanic of burning Feruchemical metals (metalminds) as an allomancer. The Feruchemy turned the Metal into something... greater than simple metal. I'd wager that there would be similarly fantastic effects to burning hemalurgic metals (Mistborn 2nd Trilogy mayhaps?). So while the metal would appear to be magical, it most certainly changes the properties of the metals in some fundamental ways. This begs the question if the metal's atomic compisition changes measurably and if the futuristic metals could be engineered to be "full" artificially for Feruchemists. IE, could they store a book into a coppermind that any Feruchemist could pick up and "read" anyway, sorry for the tangent =P. Also note that you can't affect metals in someone else's body. - Thanks to Kurkistan for the input. in Way of Kings, when stormlight fills a gem, it glows. When a Surgebinder lashes an object, it glows and sticks to whatever the Surgebinder wanted it to. The Shardblades and Shardplate are most certainly magical as well. They act differently in the hands of a dead man, and against dead bodies. Meaning that a dead man's Shardblade will not vanish if he drops it. Ok, so they're similar... So what? I think Brandon Sanderson means to write several books in which we can see the interactions of our favorite heros or at the very minimum a few books in which we'll see the way these magic systems interact. They are made to be used together. Adonalsium shattered and created the Shards which made the magics. This means that essentially these magic systems were all one at some point. However, there is a distinct possibility that these systems were not created to work together in some fashion, Kurkistan aptly points out this in the following quote. I would like to add a section in here concerning the ideas about the Spren and Seons that I have seen reflected in the comments below. Thanks to everyone for the input. - Natan - Kurkistan - Natans So this is the fun part of the post! I want to hear some of your ideas and input as well! What happens when the two magic systems meet? What happens if you burn an awakened metal? Could a Feruchemist access or store attributes in Awakened metal? In a Stormlight Gemstone? Could a Sel version of Nightblood or Shardblade be made by Forging, Writing an Aon on the blade, or using a Dakhor Bone Blade? Would Lightweaving be more powerful with Aon Ashe present? Does a Hemalurgic Spike steal all the victim's Breath? Does a Hemalurgic Spike affect Spren or Seons? How many of Sazed's religions do you think were Realmatically aware? What are the chances that Odium was worshiped on Scadrial? Could a Returned come from another planet? Could they be Returned to another planet? If so, what would happen to a Returned Mistborn? Say, Vin and Elend? Can a combination of the magic systems somehow repair a splintered Shard? I wrote this article to be discussed! If anyone has any input, please feel free to share it! I would love to hear it. Critiques are welcome, but as this is a post to discuss and speculate I would appreciate it if you would be polite to your fellow posters! TL;DR The magic systems are very similar in a lot of different ways. This could help provide some insight into the Cosmere about how Shards work and perhaps the purpose of Hoid's mission. Thanks everyone! I look forward to hearing your response! Please let me know if I missed giving you credit from your comments in the post!!!
  9. So, Brandon has confirmed that Hemalurgy is absolutely universal to the entire cosmere. An person from any planet can make a spike, effectively place a spike, or be effectively spiked so long as someone involved intends for it to happen. Quote Quote So, once the cat gets out of the bag about hemalurgy, the cosmere is going to get a lot more interesting (and messy).
  10. Because I'm struggling so much with this topic report, let's distract Kadrok by assigning Ferring and Misting powers to Magic colours! I'll start, and you guys can tell me I'm wrong! Allomancy Iron and Steel: Telekinesis to me seems to fit into Blue/White territory thematically, but given what Iron and Steel are used for, I can see Steel fitting into [blue or White]/Red (flying, tapping opponents and direct projectile damage) and Iron fitting square into White. Tin: Strikes me as Blue. Tin is all about information gathering and to me that fits squarely in Blue Pewter: Green. Buffs toughness and power. Green. Copper and Bronze: Shrouding also seems Blue, especially when combined with the metamagic approach to it... you're essentially countering Bronze. Bronze likewise strikes me as Blue: ye olde looking at your opponent's hand. Zinc and Brass: Ah, now these are interesting. Thematically there are a lot of enraging spells in Red, and the controlling aspect of it fits with Red's slew of "gain control for a turn" spells,so I'm putting Zinc as Red. For Brass? Blue again. Drowsing someone's emotions (to reduce the power of their attack) has been in Blue, and the whole manipulative angle of Blue fits with this. Alluminum: Lol. Duralumin: Seems like a ritual to me! Red or Black, which has the best history with ritual effects? Chromium: Is it countering (which would make it Blue) or land destruction (which would make it Red) or Silence (which would make it white)? Nicrosil: White? The Temporal Metals (Gold, Electrum, Cadmium, Bendalloy): Seem Blue to me. Blue does kind of have that Time Manipulation thing going on, and Gold-Electrum fit with the card drawing-gaining knowledge business, though I could see Bendalloy fitting into Red because of the whole 'Haste' thing. Some heavy Blue going on there. This isn't the first time I've noticed this with Allomancy, so imagine my surprise when I heard Sanderson's favourite magic colour is White! I'll do Feruchemy and Hemalurgy (lol. Black) later when I've done this blasted report!
  11. In allomancy, atium is both the fastest burning metal and the most destructive. This is because it is of Ruin. I propose that Lerasium has an opposite effect in hemalurgy. When alloyed with another metal into a spike, I believe that it hold the charge at max charge forever, as it preserves the power. (EDIT: Taking into mind Kadrok's reply, an alternate, if severely over powered idea, would be that instead of taking the power completely, the power is copied, therefor preserving the power of the person who would normally be losing power. However, this could be balanced by the rarity of lerasium. I don't fully believe this, but its a possibility.) In feruchemy, there is a diminishing return after a certain point, because it comes from preservation and ruin. However, if drawing strength from a lerasium+pewter alloy metal mind, I believe it will give a full return on the power even after that point, as it preserves the power, while still having a max on how much you could store at one time. Atium alloys in feruchemy, on the opposite side, would allow you to store with no max rate, but drawing from that metal mind would have a much greater diminished return.
  12. I noticed that the Hemalurgy page doesn't list "Between the Shoulder blades" as a possible bind point for Feru-Gold. The following WoB quote suggests this, however: The part I've highlighted implies that the linchpin spike can be the healing spike which, based on my understanding of Hemalurgy, implies that "Between the Shoulder blades" is a possible bind point for Feru-Gold. Does anyone want to amend this in the wiki (provided no one sees a flaw in my logic of course)?
  13. This theory is based on a http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/3901-feruchemical-puzzles/?p=61844'>post I made in the Feruchemical Puzzles thread. So, atium is part of the body of Ruin and lerasium is part of the body of Preservation. Allomancy is of Preservation, hemalurgy is of Ruin and feruchemy is a combination of the two. If lerasium is burned (either pure or as an alloy), the burner becomes an allomancer of some kind. Mistborn if pure, misting if alloyed. A hemalurgic spike made of atium can steal any single power from someone with that power (in a messy and usually fatal manner). It has frequently been theorized as to additional effects of burning atium or burning an alloy of atium and lerasium (i.e., such as becoming a feruchemist). However, burning metals is an allomancy thing. So I don't think that burning would be a part of gaining any investiture except for allomancy. Alternatively, I posit that each god metal is universal for the metallic art of the associated shard. In other words, lerasium is universal for allomancy in that if burned in it's pure form, one becomes a full powered mistborn. Atium is hemalurgically universal in that it can be used to steal any power (not limited to allomancy and feruchemy). But what about Feruchemy? I also posit that an alloy of atium and lerasium (likely 50/50 or something close to that) acts as a universal metalmind (i.e., any attribute may be stored within it). So, to point out an area for speculation, one may become an allomancer by burning lerasium (no use of other arts to do so) and anyone can hemalurgically spike someone as per http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/3941-spocon-report/?p=62356'>WoB. Again, what about feruchemy? How can someone gain access to feruchemy without the genetic heritage (feruchemist bloodline) and without using any other arts (i.e., no spiking)? Or rather, since allomancy and hemalurgy are both in some way universally accessible, in what manner may feruchemy be universally accessible also?
  14. In brief: There are some situations in which burning Duralumin doesn't chew up an Allomancer's entire supply of directly burnable metal (metals not in vials, but immediately burnable) when the surged reserve is consumed. This leads me to theorize that there are ways to "cheat" Duralumin. The argument: Burning Duralumin as well as another Allomantic metal chews up your entire reserve of that metal and gives you a burst of power. This we know. Some Hemalurgically spiked individuals used Duralumin (Zane, Marsh, etc). This we also know. Further we know that it is possible to burn a Hemalurgic spike while it is in your body: 17th Shard: Can you burn the spikes? Like, Allomantically? For example, could they burn the steel in their head spikes? Brandon: (sighs) I considered that and I eventually decided that they could, but it would be an excruciating process that would probably knock them unconscious simply by doing it. The question is of course, why doesn't a Steel Inquisitor, burning both Duralumin and... say... Steel... burn up their own spikes? There are two answers that I can see: A. Hemalurgic Spikes, due to their invested nature, are overwritten in much the same way that a metalmind is. The Steel spikes don't count as the same reserve because you're burning Duralumin with Allomantic Steel (which is obviously identical to real steel given that the metal itself is just a key, not the source of power, let's move on) not Hemalurgic Steel1 or Feruchemical Steel. The key point here is that the metals are distinguished because the Steel the Inquisitors burn is 'blank', but their spikes are not. B. The spikes count as a separate reserve to the ingested metals due to location or disassociation with the ingested reserves. This is the far more awesome explanation2 because it implies that there are ways to "cheat" Duralumin... to gain a burst without burning up all your metal reserves. For example, if Inquisitors can burn their spikes while they are still in the body, it suggests that someone could burn an uncharged steel earring3 or some other metal source separate to the particular reserve in the digestive organs. Note that these answers are not mutually exclusive. It could both be true that location/disassociation separates metal reserves, and also that kinds of charge separates reserves. For example it may be true that an Allomancer-Feruchemist-Hemalugist burning Duralumin and Steel, who has also ingested a Steelmind and Steel Spike, would lose only the 'blank' Steel; but it could equally be the case that that same Allomancer-Feruchemist-Hemalurgist would not lose their uncharged Steel earring, not because of a difference in charge, but because the earring represents a distinct reserve of the same metal. FOOTNOTES 1 I can see there being four flavours of "Hemalurgic Steel" based on the power the Steel holds... but there are other threads discussing the interesting, and usually unhealthy things which happen when you burn a Hemalurgic spike, and so I won't discuss this further. 2 Which is obviously not a measure of its truth value, but still... 3 Unless of course the digestive organs provide a sort of spiritual gateway which is mimicked in the act of spiking someone (which is essentially spiritually stapling), and it is this connection to the spiritual which uniquely allows for the burning of metals.
  15. I was thinking about this last night and knowing that 16 is a big arc number when it comes to the Cosmere and BS, I got to thinking about whether the alloys count towards that number. My reasoning is that it does not; because Shards influence the world and that because alloys are man made things, we have only seen 8 of 16 metals used on Scadrial for the Metallic Arts. Of course if BS has said otherwise I'm totally willing to give up this notion of mine
  16. I was rereading Mistborn: FE recently, and noticed something odd about Inquistors' healing: It leaves scars. Their healing does seem to be due to gold Feruchemy: in the annotations, Brandon says "The Inquisitors can actually heal far more quickly than I've had them do in this book," and later says "Two attributes that can be stored up by Feruchemists, by the way, are healing and the ability to move very quickly," rather heavily implying that gold Feruchemy is how the Inquisitors heal. But, in the scene after Vin is captured (pg 600 of my paperback, chapter 36), she notices that one of the Inquisitors' face is pocked with arrow-head scars, mere hours after her "iron ring behind a stone arrowhead" trick punched a few holes into him. That's right, scars. Scars. After a few hours and using gold Feruchemy. This is bad, and does not at all align with how Gold works in any other context we've seen. I see a few options to explain this. 1) Continuity error. Brandon changed his mind about how gold Feruchemy works. I doubt this, though, because TLR is perfectly fine with being speared and flayed and (mostly) beheaded and burned alive and. . . with nary a scar to be seen. That suggests that "normal" gold Feruchemy works in the scar-less way we know and love, even in this first book. Brandon also wrote all three Mistborn books together, so it seems like he'd catch this. -Still, it's a possibility. It's a rather small reference, and easy to miss. On the flip side, it is rather important to Vin/the reader's realization that the Inquisitors can Heal themselves quickly like TLR can, and one of several routes by which to follow the rabbit trail down to Feruchemy, so Brandon might have left such a relatively minor magic system error in on purpose. 2) The Inquisitor wasn't using gold Feruchemy, but instead some other method. Perhaps an as-yet-unknown Hemalurgic spike, or super-flared double pewter. I seriously doubt this, though. We know from the Brandonothology that "The [inquisitors] alive now pretty much all have healing spikes", so why would our Inquisitor use an inferior methid, especially since he was hurt enough by the arrows to literally had holes blown through him. Add this to Brandon's hints in the annotations about Inquisitors using gold Feruchemy, and it's almost certain that our scarred Inquisitor healed himself with it. 3) Any gold Feruchemy not applied near-instantaneously leaves some scars behind. I doubt this as well: it seems from TES that Cognitive aspects (on which Healing is based) are rather robust and long-lasting, so I can't imagine that a few hours would make "holes punched through my face" the new normal, even putting aside how the Inquisitor would stay alive long enough to have his Cognitive aspect change without using gold Feruchemy. 4) The scarred Inquisitor applied gold Feruchemy in the same way that we usually see--as we see with Wayne, Miles, Sazed, and TLR--and yet was still left with scars. 4.1) This scarring was a result of the Inquisitor being an Inquisitor. Inquisitors are unnatural creatures, not truly human anymore. They seem to grow in height, they become fatigued easily (beyond just resting a lot to store up Feruchemy), and they're unnaturally creepy ( ). Maybe gold Feruchemy just works differently on them. 4.1.1) The otherwise normal gold Feruchemy that Inquisitors use is twisted by their otherwise "Ruinous" dispositions. Whereas a normal person with a single spike for gold Feruchemy might well be able to Heal himself normally, Inquisitors who have been twisted to the point where they need "linchpin" spikes just to stay alive are beyond the pale. This is slightly different from 4.1 in that perhaps a Kandra or othersuch "unnatural" creature could still get "pure" gold Feruchemy. 4.2) Hemalurgic Feruchemical gold is scar-inducing. I'm not sure about this one. It's in line with the above and with how "Ruin likes to Ruin things", with Ruin allowing Healing, but in an "end negative" way that still leaves the user worse off than they were before they were wounded. Perhaps. But it's a rather extreme effect, especially since we've already identified "it's harder to store Health" as our consequence for Hemalurgic decay. I suppose Ruin could take a special interest in deforming the effects of perhaps the most "Preservationy" of the Feruchemical effects. Myself, I'm leaning towards some variant of 4, if you couldn't guess from the detail I went into for that option. 4.1 or 4.1.1, ideally. Your thoughts?
  17. Does the spike placement on the... "donor" matter in Hemalurgy? In the recipient, it does matter for sure, this much has been confirmed. The main trilogy implies that most powers are take through the hearth. Sure, that works for Mistings (and Ferrings), since they have only one power. But what about a full Feruchemist or Mistborn? If i want to take Duralumin from a Mistborn, do i drive the spike through the Mistborn's hearth and just plant it the correct location on the recipient, or do i need to take it from the correct place as well? BS says that Hemalurgy steals a piece of the victim's soul (Spirit Web) (and also says that the victim doesn't have to die actually*). A piece. Now it could mean the whole "power" part of ones Spirit Web, and jury-rig only one part of the stolen piece of soul to work on the recipient, but that would mean one could remove the spike and place it elsewhere to change his or her powers, if the spike is created from a Mistborn or Feruchemist. This would mean that spikes created from Mistborn or Feruchemists would be strictly speaking much better due to their flexibility, though not necessarily more powerful. The RPG doesn't directly state either way but implies that what is stolen from the victim is chosen during the creation of the spike, the only way this choice can work, as far as i can see, is for the stealing location to matter. For example, pewter, which steals all 8 physical (a bit of a retcon, there's a thread about this here) Feruchemical powers. (This requires for the Steel Inquisitors to carry goldminds with them by the way.) *Not sure where i read this, probably some QA EDIT Answer http://www.brandonsanderson.com/annotation/305/mistborn-3-Chapter-Thirty-Nine Right. Looks like the killing method does matter. So... case closed.
  18. From what I understand of Aluminum Feruchemy, it can allow you to reset your identity, personality and such, to the way it was at an earlier point. This seems to me a possible cure to the ill effects of certain kinds of Hemalurgy, such as Copper... which stores intelligence and memory... but also tends to cause insanity given you're essentially splicing part of someone else's mind into yours. The way I see this working is that you could either cleanse yourself of the spliced personality by storing it (that is storing the spliced personality...) either perpetually if it continually upwells from the spike, or all at once if that is possible, ridding you of it entirely. Alternatively, perhaps you can reinforce your own personality by drawing on aluminium charges stored before the spiking... draw enough and perhaps you can burn the residual personality out, in a similar way to how the MAG describes drawing enough Aluminum as wiping your personality clean... Another possible use I can see is that it could allow you to shake off some of the unusual effects of BURNING a Hemalurgic spike... assuming there is a use to burning a spike (which is of course a whole different 'kettle of fish'/'bag of cheese'/'coppermind of contentious ideas') Thoughts? Reflections? Harsh rebuttals with little consideration for my feelings ?
  19. When I finished the first Mistborn book one of the most interesting abilities was tin, by the end The Hero of Ages it was my favorite ability. After thinking about how tin works I have three main questions that. Feruchemical tin enhances senses in a different way then allomantic tin does, since feruchemical sight simply works like a zoom button. So the first question I have is what thoughts do people have on how the other four feruchemical senses. The first twinborn combo I thought of was double tin not for compounding but to have as much control over your senses as possible. So the second question I have is what are your thoughts on how tapping and burning tin at the same time works. When you use Hemalurgy to spike a allomancer with an ability they already have it enhances it power. So the last question is what do people think would happen if you spike a Tineye with a spike endowed with tin. Not sure if any of these have solid answers already through other sources, was just curious about other people's thoughts.
  20. I'm not sure if this is old, old news, but I just noticed this tidbit from the interview database: If this isn't simply Brandon misspeaking, then this implies that only Scadralians can actually use Hemalurgy, at least to one degree or another. It could mean that a Scadralian needs to be the onle to place the spike (in the victim and/or the recipient) and/or it could be that a Scadrialian is the only one who can benefit from a spike. We already know that spikes can steal anything they please, so you don't need to be special to be a victim of Hemalurgy. Any way you slice it, it makes spikes a bit less "oh, you got a metal splinter? There goes your magic!" and a bit more deliberate. I'm inclined to think that this means that only sentient Scadralians can actually create Hemalurgic spikes, and that they must be in contact with the spike at the moment when they use it on their victim. This would explain why bullets haven't spiked out Mile's Augur or Bloodmaker abilities yet, at the very least. We then have this possibly conflicting bit: Eh. Could go either way. He doesn't specify Hemalurgy as the one that people could discover by accident, so it could just be that you'd need some worldhopper DNA before you could do anything. --- Just wanted to get this out there and spur some discussion, back the Shardblades and Hemalurgic decay!