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So I am not always here reading various theories, therefore I am surely creating a hypothesis that has already been made before. But what if the Ghostbloods (or at least Iyatil / Mraize) are part of a larger and "opposite" organization to the 17th shard? It does create a nice symmetry again, but could be taking the symmetry idea too far. It seems that Mraize and Iyatil are both worldhoppers. From the scene when Shallan first meets Mraize, she seems to see several things from different worlds, and probably there is another thread where everyone has figured out where these things are from: A vial of pale sand. - White Sand? A couple of thick hairpins. - For Hemalurgy? A lock of golden hair. - No idea The branch of a tree with writing on it. - Not sure, but the writing makes me think of AonDor. A silver knife. - Threnody, holding back the Shades? An odd flower preserved in some kind of solution. - Nalthis/Tears of Edgli? A chunk of pale pink crystal looked like it might be some kind of gemstone - Not sure Perhaps the Ghostbloods are going directly against the 17th shard, trying to figure out how to get super powerful through different types of investiture? Ok, apologies if all this has been said before.

This has been bugging me. Which organization do these two belong to? My conclussions: Restares is a Son of Honor who was second in command before Gavilar's assassination. Now that Gavilar is dead, I believe that Restares is in charge because Mraize refers to Amaram (speculation) as one of Restares cronies.

One turning point in WoK is the lesson Jasnah gives Shallan in practical philosophy. To all appearances, these two protoRadiants are accosted by thugs looking to gain a few spheres through a simple mugging. But this is long before either we or Shallan have an inkling of Roshar's secret society undercurrents. It becomes clear in WoR that Jasnah is (with good reason) actively guarding against attempts on her life by at least one shadowy organization. Mraize later tells Shallan that Jasnah had already killed several members of the Ghostbloods. I wonder, then, whether the obvious premeditation behind the "philosophy lesson" did not have an ulterior purpose. Were the "thugs" actually would-be assassins who were specifically targeting Jasnah? Jasnah tells Shallan that she chose their alleyway based on reports of muggings and murders in the area. This could well be true, and she chose to kill the miscreants to make the city safer. Perhaps it was a favor to kind old Taravangian, who doesn't have the resources to protect his citizens. Perhaps it was more personal, and (as some have speculated) she bears a grudge against people who take advantage of women--past trauma fueling rage against these individuals. Then again, this reasoning that Jasnah presents could be either wholly fabricated or simply incidental to her real purpose. Perhaps she (or Ivory) had identified a tail following her around. Maybe the alley she went to didn't matter, she was just finding a place isolated enough for them to make their move. We don't get to see their bodies after the event, so we don't know if they had ghostblood tattoos or not. Even if they didn't they could have been hired for the hit, like Tyn, or be members of another secret society. Am I missing any evidence that would suggest that the event was simply a mugging-gone-wrong? Or evidence that the thugs had a very specific victim in mind?

So you know those three diamond shapes that appear between paragraphs sometimes(the symbol of the Ghostbloods)? And the endnotes that seem to be written by Ghostbloods hence (from The Way of Kings) "Joshor, Head of His Majesty's Silent Gatherers, Tanatanev, 1173." His majesty being Taravangian. Just a thought. Not actually sure if there's enough evidence (or even if this stuff is correct, seeing as they could be false conclusions and I have actually finished WoR ). Edit: *Please reply if you have anything that contradicts or supports this theory. Thank you.

With WoR, we have more of an idea about the factions on Roshar. I was particularly intrigued by the following snippet from ch 54: I thought it would be interesting to have a compilation of the factions and what we know about each. I have started it and will compile contributions from this thread, if people want to contribute. So the parties that we are aware of: Diagramists Ghostbloods Radiants Shamanate Skybreakers Sons of Honor Wit/Hoid 17th Shard What we know about the parties Diagramists Led by Mr. T Goal: Some humans survive Desolation Method: Destabilize, take over and ? Members: Mrall, Abrotogar (sp), Graves Ghostbloods Led by Master Thaidakar Cosmere aware (local species of human) Members: Iyatil (babsk of Mraize?), Mraize, Jin Aware of Mr. T/Diagramists creating chaos former members: Kabsal, Lin Davar, Heleran Davar? Radiants Members: Dalinar (Bondsmith), Jasnah (Elsecaller) (assumes she will join w/others), Kaladin (Windrunner), Renarin (Truthwatcher), Shallan (Lightweaver) Goal: destroy Odium? Shamanate possess 7 Honorblades Skybreakers Led by Nin/Nalan members: Szeth Nightblood Sons of Honor members: AmaramWit/Hoid Stop Odium Honorblade, presumed allomancer 17th Shard Leader: Dragon Members: Gallodon,

Chapter 43 has Hoid in the header and i can't figure out who he is or if he's just someone they mention in this chapter. The only person I can think he'd be is the guard who lets Shallan down into the secret basements, but he would need to be well disguised if that's him. Has anyone figured this out?

Alright, before I start, I'll warn you guys that this theory has almost no evidence behind it at all. It just has that "Brandon Sanderson plot twist" feeling to it. We know that Kabsal was a Ghostblood. However, he was also very good at playing the part of an ardent. In fact, the only time we saw his true nature was when he began to rage about how beaten-down the ardentia was. He claimed that the ardents had become property to the Brightlords, and that people ignored them. This leads me to believe that Kabsal really was an ardent, and wasn't just pretending to be one. Then, there was a strange event at one of Elkohar's feasts that seems to be mostly forgotten in this forum. An ardent belonging to Brightlord Hatham approached Dalinar with this message: "Just as Hatham wishes his partner in negotiations to know of his goodwill, I wish you to know of our goodwill toward you, Brightlord." I got the feeling that the "we" in this statement wasn't referring to the ardent and Hatham, who has been a minor character so far. Instead, I connected it to another organization we know has connections to the ardentia: the Ghostbloods. I feel that the most likely motivation for a secret organization of ardents, especially considering Kabsal's monologue, is the reinstitution of the Heirocracy. Any thoughts on this almost totally baseless theory? =)

I have a theory and while I think it might be a little obvious I don't think it's been brought up directly on the forums. Here's the gist. The Vorin church over the past 4500 year has been run and structured for the main purpose of confusing and corrupting knowledge of the Knights Radiant, the Desolations, and the Voidbringers. I also believe that this was due to the influence of Odium as any long term effort to hurt the people of Rhosar's chances to survive the final desolation could potentially be accredited to the Odious one. Furthermore their takeover of the Silver Kingdoms during the Hierocracy preceding the intervention of the SunKing was not folly, but their masterstroke. They were able to destroy practically all books or resources containing any knowledge of the past (except the library of Karbranth of course). Lets take a look at what we know about the church and how it's very structure prohibits the spread of knowledge. Devotaries are the main way by which pious Vorin's show their faith. A Devotary has each devotee devote themselves to ONE noble aspect of the church. The male arts are brute and mostly involve fighting, since the church teaches that the greatest calling a man can fulfill is to be the greatest of warriors and to ascend to the Tranquiline Halls and reclaim them for man. This Devotion caused men to hold no interest in scholarship, lighteyed males had better rule a town/halmet/city/territory get to war or become and ardent, that is what is proper. They have no desire to read or gain knowledge of the past, reading is a shameful activity for a man, better to have a proper lady read to you. Even the amount of reading that Dalinar has pursued caused court gossip, thoough the fact that the book is the Way of Kings doesn't help. The female Devotary arts are mostly art (painting, music, poetry, embroidery) and scholarly pursuits, but a real lady should try to stick to the flowery ones since the most prominent scholars tend to become Heretics like Jasnah Kholin (I'm just riffing here some of this isn't explicitly said but are either implied or are the feelings I get from reading) {Also I don't agree with the sexist nature of this I'm just talking like an Alethi here). What they've done is separate those with Power (Men, Warlords, High Princes) from those with knowledge (Women, Scholars, Artists ) . Now I know a good light eyes couple will always be paired up, but even in this context the females are hiding knowledge in simple messages and texts with footnotes that men don't know about. And what men can read? Ardents can! And through this power they can have a greater influence on history. **Spoiler Spoiler ** The distinction between Vorinism and Old Vorinism is the reverence of the KR and the Heralds. They were venerated once and now are thought of as betrayers. Now the Recreance sure didn't help this, but a huge shift in trends like this needs some kind of push to get things going. Then it needs a stealthy hand to guide it on the right track. This is how Over the years, possibly without the entire churches overt knowledge, they could quietly secret away bits of lore and knowledge until we get to the current model of understanding about the past (not much that's accurate). Now if it is a smaller subset of the church driving this, it could be that during the Sunmaker's destruction of the Heirocracy, this piece of the church would need to completely break off to survive. They wouldn't disappear however they'd become ... The Ghostbloods. Do they have a secret library of old world knowledge? Is it the library of Karbranth? Tune in for WOR and hope we find out! I'm kind of running out of steam now so I'll come back later with some references and the like. But I think this is an interesting topic of pursuit and I hope it sparks some conversation.