Search the Community

Showing results for tags 'ghostbloods'.

More search options

  • Search By Tags

    Type tags separated by commas.
  • Search By Author

Content Type


  • Brandon and Book News
  • Events, Signings, & Giveaways
  • Columns and Features
  • Site News
  • Shardcast


  • 17th Shard
    • Introduce Yourself!
    • 17th Shard Discussion
    • The Coppermind Wiki
    • Arcanum Discussion
  • Brandon Sanderson
    • General Brandon Discussion
    • Events and Signings
    • Sanderson Fan Works
    • Arcanum, the Brandon Sanderson Archive
  • The Cosmere
    • Cosmere Q&A
    • Cosmere Discussion
    • Stormlight Archive
    • Mistborn
    • Elantris and Emperor's Soul
    • Warbreaker
    • White Sand
    • Cosmere Short Stories
    • Unpublished Works
  • Non-cosmere Works
    • The Reckoners
    • The Rithmatist
    • Skyward Spoiler Board
    • Alcatraz
    • Other Stories
    • The Wheel of Time
  • Related Works
    • Writing Excuses
    • Reading Excuses
    • TWG Archive
  • Community
    • General Discussion
    • Entertainment Discussion
    • Science, Tech, and Math Discussion
    • Creator's Corner
    • Role-Playing
    • Social Groups, Clans, and Guilds


  • Chaos' Blog
  • Leinton's Blog
  • 17th Shard Blog
  • KChan's Blog
  • Puck's Blag
  • Brandon's Blog
  • The Name of your Blog
  • Darth Squirrely's Blog
  • Tales of a Firebug
  • borborygmus' Blog
  • Zeadman's Blog
  • zas678's Blog
  • The Basement
  • Addy's Avocations
  • Zarepath's Blog
  • First time reading The Well Of Ascension
  • Seshperankh's Blog
  • "I Have Opinions About Books"
  • Test
  • Which actors would you like to see playing the characters of Mistborn?
  • Drifted Mists
  • Jaron's Realm
  • Roshar Speculative Theories
  • ChrisHamatake's Blog
  • Paradox Flint's Blog
  • Deoradhan's Blog
  • Storm Blessed's Blog
  • Elwynn's Blog
  • firstRainbowRose's Blog
  • Rotabush ShardBlog
  • Hoid's Compendium
  • InterContinental Adventures
  • Claincy Creates
  • WoR Thoughts and Questions
  • Blogfalcon
  • David Coppercloud's Blog
  • yurisses' notes and theories
  • Lark Adventures
  • LeftInch's Blog
  • LUNA's Poetry
  • Inspiration Board
  • Trying to be Useful for a Change
  • Rocket League Boosting Service -RL Rank Boosting -
  • The Way of Toasters
  • Cosmere Nerd Things
  • Vascular X
  • Gleam And Glow Cream Review
  • g10 force
  • Custom Quality Services Offered By Painting Contractors Spring Valley
  • How AR will impact the market in Current time | Brossard Design
  • A few things that weigh less and will make your Camino more comfortable
  • How to Expand Your Business Internationally
  • Track Advanced - Racing, Flight and Game Simulators by Next Level Racing
  • DA blog
  • Wyn's Adventures in Geekiness


  • Community Calendar

Found 41 results

  1. I have a theory that may might need some scrutiny. The Soulcaster Shallan has in The Way of Kings was cut, and it stopped working. What if the soul casting fabrials are just prisons that hold a Spren capable of soul casting? Maybe I am overthinking, but it seems to me that all Soul Casters would need to contain some form of intelligence that could exchange Stormlight in Shadesmar to effect an object's change into one of the ten essences. Shallan is an intelligent human that could not convince a stick that it wanted to be fire, so we know that the objects can be willful, if not stubborn. Either there exists some trick to force a soulcasting, or an intelligence must present an argument to convince the object to change. If this is true, a Lightweaver's Cryptic could potentially be bound into a soulcaster for others to use, without needing to have a bond. Soulcaster Fabrials are a delicate pattern of chains and gemstones. I imagine them as a web of delicate lines with gemstones interspersed. What if they function as a web and hold a spren in between the cognitive and physical realm? Shardblades are the remnants of a broken bond and a formerly bound spren in some form of agony, which is why those sensitive to a bond can't touch blades without hearing the screams. It does not seem unlikely that Soulcasters are similarly remains of Spren, but in a more active capacity. If this is true, then cutting the soul caster might free an imprisoned spren. We are told that Shallan did not attempt to summon Pattern as a blade after the death of her mother, due primarily to that trauma. She Imagines that the blade is imprisoned in the safe in her father's study. But this does not explain fully why the Cryptic was never visible to her until the events in The Way of Kings. (Assuming that the pattern she is looking at on the ceiling of her quarters before she first heard the "What are you?" question was actually the Cryptic.) Why did Pattern seemingly not appear to a young Shallan after the death of her mother as she was growing up? It's possible she just wished him to leave her alone, but then why dld he come back later? Could there be a procedure that would have allowed her father to bind Pattern and create a Soulcaster fabrial? If the Ghostbloods knew of an ancient secret like this, and found that the Davar daughter had a bonded spren, possibly because her mother talked about her child's supernatural nature while looking for a "cure", it does not seem impossible that they might offer Brightlord Davar the method, and use of the resulting fabrial, in exchange for his allegiance. Perhaps a young Shallan would rationalize an event like removing her bonded spren as her father taking her blade, and putting it away in a safe. It always seemed incongruous to me that Lin Davar, portrayed as an ambitious man who would do almost anything to get a stronger position, did not attempt to gain anything from his daughter having a shard blade. I realize that the Radiants were looked at with scorn, and that it is possible he did not want his House tainted by their memory, but would he have not looked into how the shard blades of the past were separated from their owners originally? It would have solved multiple problems at once. Would questions along these lines eventually lead him to the Ghostbloods? If he somehow took advantage of his daughter after finding out she was bonding a Cryptic, and manipulated events so that he could get a soul caster made from the Spren, that would seem to me to be more in keeping with his character. Pattern lost his memories at the time of Brightness Davar's death, possibly because his bond with Shallan was weakened by her wanting nothing to do with him, and, at the same time, Shallan went mute and became antisocial, presumably due to guilt. I propose that Brightlord Davar somehow took Shallan's spren after the death of his wife, and used knowledge gained from the Ghostbloods to imprison Pattern and create a fabrial for exploitation. I also think that the forced breaking of the bond was what damaged Shallan's young mind and fractured Pattern's memories. Are there any holes in this theory that I am overlooking?
  2. Mraize, Veil and Iyatil of the Ghostbloods secret society. Some more Mraize sketches Veil
  3. Words of Radiance, chapter 34. One of those scenes so vivid that it stays in your head after reading it, and you find yourself drawing it instead of sleeping on some late weeknights. I always wondered what Pattern would look like as a proper Shardblade, so I drew him as a short sword with fancy Pattern quillions that glow pink-red in the dark. It's better in full resolution: Options > View all sizes > LARGE But if you don't want to bother, here are the detailed pics: Shallan's eyes glow pink-red when she has her Blade. The moneyshot: Original doodle: In progress: And bonus pic for all you weirdos out there: I call it "Mornings". Click for full size.
  4. So, I noticed one of the members of Ghostbloods wore a mask, and when questioned about it by Shallan, she stated she wondered why people here (either meaning Alethkar or Roshar) went about so brazenly without masks. In the newest Mistborn book, we are introduced to a civilization that always wears masks, and said something similar about the people of Elendel not wearing masks. Also, this is my first post, so hi!
  5. So with the information given in BoM I think it can be safely said that Iyatil is most likely from Southern Scadrial, the Hunter Clan specifically. The description of Iyatil's mask and the description of Hunter's masks growing into their faces are too close to ignore, plus Iyatil's whole fixation on everything being about a hunter/prey relationship. This isn't going too far as an assumption, I think. With the advent of Bands, though, we now know what kind of magical capabilities Iyatil may have given her background (if any). I am of course referring to the medallions and their ability to grant a feruchemical power. While there are complexities here that I will not be getting into, I'm sure Sharders will come up with some interesting uses of those. Maybe what comes later in this post will be related, maybe not. I want to go back to something I've been pondering since WoR, observations about Iyatil in particular that I haven't seen discussed. Now is a good time to bring these up. I'll go back and add page numbers for the quotes later on if anyone is interested in them. The question this post considers is does Iyatil have a magical capability, and if so, do we have anything in the published materials that could hint at it's nature? I'm going strictly by published information here, not rampant speculation, so let's take a look at Words of Radiance (WoR). In WoR, consider the first scene we see Iyatil. Shallon finds a room full of Ghostbloods under the apartment. She says nothing about anyone with a mask, though, and we know she was nervous and took a good look around. Then, all of a sudden, Iyatil appears right next to her during her talk with Mraize. Odd that she doesn't notice a person wearing what she later describes a "disturbing" mask, and that such a person basically came up on top of her, I think. But perhaps, you say, intoning Lift, Iyatil is just good at sneaky-stuff like that. Then Shallan leaves the apartment. I will point out to you first that Pattern is the only person who sees Iyatil during the following chase-and-evade sequence. Shallan hears something 'like fabric' while hiding, but never actually gets a look at Iyatil after she leaves the apartment. See, a person wearing a mask like Iyatil's out in the War Camps will probably be pretty noticeable in general. You could easily send folks around inquiring about such oddities, and learn some of her movements, the kind of thing a woman like Iyatil would not likely care for. Being easily tracked. So rolling out with a creepy carapace mask stuck to your face in a War Camp aligned against Parshmen who wear carapace armor is probably an occurrence Iyatil would avoid at all costs if it would be remarked upon. You say again she is sneaky-folk, and can stroll down busy streets with no one noticing. I say people wouldn't notice her following them like they wouldn't notice a Chasmfiend giving chase. You say hoods-up and shadows, sneaky-sneak-sneak. The next Ghostblood sequence is at the camp outside of the Unclaimed Hills. Shallan arrives, looks around. No notice of Iyatil in the group she finds. She talks to Mraize a bit, he tortures small animals during conversation to impress everyone. Bam! Iyatil appears standing RIGHT THERE holding the mink-thing Mraize just shot. Shallan even asks herself this time, "where was this woman hiding?" Hmmm. Sneaky-sneak, in the bushes you say? Maybe she is just good at crouching, Elder Scrolls-style? Chameleon robe?. ; ) On to the scene where Shallan waits at the info drop in the tree; she realizes they are watching the tree as well and decides check around for suspicious folk. She then sends Pattern to see if anyone is watching, and Pattern returns saying he found Iyatil in the building. After that Shallan hides on the stairs and catches her leaving the building. Aha, you say! So nothing to all of this! I'm not buying it. The first thing Iyatil says to Shallan? "How did you find me?" The answer Shallan gives? Shallan just had some random person watching the building, and thus summarily defeated Sneak-Master Mask heads up. Iyatil is thus stymied by a simple old lookout. Just keep in mind it was actually Pattern who did the initial spotting again, so it was really a spren lookout, who can easily see past the Physical Realm. Then the pair go adventuring to the insane asylum, looking for Taln. After showing Iyatil to the Ardents, who immediately freak out at the sight of her, Shallan finds Taln. As she goes to leave, Iyatil asks Shallan, "Who are you, Veil? You caught me in stealth spying upon you, and you can lose me in the streets." These things lead Iyatil to think Shallan is something special. Iyatil isn't talking you-are-good-at-hiding-in-an-alley special. Nor smart-enough-to-use-a-lookout special. This is join our secret world-hopping group with lots of magical artifacts, special. The last time we see Iyatil in WoR, she takes a few pot shots at Amaram from just outside the hole he cut in the small cell Taln is in, as he attempts to sneak Taln out. We conveniently know that the blow-darts don't have much range from an earlier conversation between Shallan and Mraize. Amaram definitely describes Iyatil here and she is pretty close. Taln grabs the darts, Amaram hops out, giving chase (we know the cell is small, so this wouldn't take long). No suspicous mask-wearing folks in sight! Yet another odd occurrence to add to our pile! There is something in all of this, I think. My ideas follow, and I'll be interested to hear yours. I've tried hard to build a case here that at least we have a series of unusual occurrences here that cannot be explained away by Iyatil being simply very sneaky, or by Shallan becoming a master of intrigue. I find it highly likely that Iyatil is either using Southern Scadrial magic to conceal herself or has some method of hiding herself in the Cognitive Realm. A magical method of concealment would certainly be attractive to a hunter who spends her life stalking prey. Also, we have hints that she is a worldhopper, and we know that using the Cognitive Realm is a common method of doing such hopping, so perhaps there is a connection there with her apparent ability to conceal herself. Were Iyatil in fact 'hiding' somehow in the Cognitive Realm when stalking Shallan on the streets, I would guess that Pattern would spot her right away whereas beings in the Physical Realm may look right over her. Same situation when she was, in her own words, "in stealth." Now that we have a likely candidate for Iyatil's background and know a bit about her people's native magical capabilities, perhaps this can yield some interesting conversations. I'm really interested to hear what you have to say, so thanks in advance for reading all of this!
  6. People Moash is working for are Diagramists, right? (Dude with Moash when fighting Kaladin at end of WoR says this isn't what the diagram said or something along those lines) Shallan is working for the Ghostbloods, right? Don't feel like finding the quote again (I found this like 6 months ago and thought I had posted it but I guess not), but Shallan's employer told her that Amaram's life is reserved for another. Moash and the rest of Bridge 4 is, at this point, the only group of people who know Kaladin is a Radiant, and unless the Ghostbloods tracked him all the way from the battle where he became a slave, Moash is the only one who knows that Kaladin hates Amaram (come to think, this might have been after Adolin's 4v1, but I don't think so, and even still there's no reason the Ghostbloods would keep Amaram for him) Therefore Ghostbloods = Diagramists, or at least they are working together. This whole theory is from like 6 months ago, so I might be wrong.
  7. A Rosharan Political Analysis: Secret Societies Ghostbloods, Diagramists, Skybreakers, Sons of Honor, Envisagers, Stone Shamans, Ardentia The following is intended to be a comprehensive guide on known secret societies on Roshar, especially ones interfering in The Stormlight Archive. Due to the complexity and excessive number of such societies, this will hopefully be a useful reference for newcomers, confused fans, and those that want to double check or reference any information. If you note any inaccuracies or things that I missed, feel free to let me know so that I can update the information to be as accurate as possible. The Ghostbloods: The Ghostbloods are the most encountered secret society with the least information given. As Mraize told Shallan at the end of Words of Radiance, we know next to nothing about the Ghostbloods or their purpose. We can, however, make some educated approximations, and codify the information we have been given. · Jasnah Kholin: She and the Ghostbloods seem to be engaged in a policy of mutual assassination; but unfortunately we don’t know the history or reasons behind this. · Sons of Honor: There seems to be a specific rivalry between the Ghostbloods and the Sons of Honor. The Ghostbloods have a keen interest in Amaram at the Shattered Plains, and Iyatil tried to assassinate him at the end of Words of Radiance (most likely, she has at least one nonlethal poison); Amaram also suspected the Ghostbloods of sending Helaran as the Shardbearer to kill him, though later evidence indicates that it was really the Skybreakers. Gavilar’s two suspects for his assassination were Thaidakar (probable leader of the Ghostbloods) and Restares (probable leader of the Sons of Honor). Both are also seeking maps and Urithiru. · Maps and Urithiru: The Ghostbloods have an uncanny interest in maps. (This is not singular to the Ghostbloods; the Sons of Honor, Parshendi, and others seem to have the same interest.) Either they (as well as the others) are putting plenty of effort into the search for Urithiru (as seems likely), or the maps have something else of interest. · Taravangian and Tukar: Mraize, in his conversation with Raspy Voice, seemed to indicate that he thinks Taravangian and the Diagram of little importance. Either he is unaware of the Diagram or its extent, or the Diagram is of less importance than we are led to believe. In the same conversation, he speaks of a “creature in Tukar” that is either not human or not of the local species. As pointed out, this is likely the "god-priest, Tezim," leading the Tukari in the conflict over Sesemalex Dar. · Worldhoppers: Secret conversations, key props, the Diagram, and Words of Brandon confirm that Mraize and Iyatil are worldhoppers. The conversation Shallan overheard in Chapter 54 of Words of Radiance seems to indicate that there may be at least one other. A person with a raspy voice. Conspiracy theory! Dreok Crushthroat! The Ghostbloods could, therefore, be a Cosmere-wide organization in either membership, expanse, or at least information. Significant Members: · Mraize: A man who, on first sight, reminds Shallan of Hoid. He is twisted an scarred, fixates on courage (in his first conversation with Shallan), and likes to use local weapons to learn of different cultures. He is the ward of Iyatil, and a worldhopper. In fact, Adrotagia wondered (in her annotations to the Diagram) if he was the “wanderer Taravangian spoke of. · Iyatil: She is considered the “babsk” of Mraize. The only other babsk we see is Vstim, and from Rysn we learn that the babsk is considered the parent of the apprentice, in charge of “rearing” them to be a full trader. I am not sure how this relationship works with the Ghostbloods. She has an orange carapace mask she refuses to remove, is a skilled actress, and is also a worldhopper. · Tyn: An expert con artist that took Shallan under her wing. She was in league with the Ghostbloods but may not have been an actual member. She was in charge of the operation to assassinate Jasnah Kholin. Shallan killed her with her Shardblade when Tyn discovered her identity and tried to kill her. · Thaidakar: This appears to be a leader or high ranking member of the Ghostbloods (he is spoken of in conjunction with the Ghostbloods in a way that implies he is the head of the organization by Amaram in The Way of Kings, and Words of Radiance reaffirms a Ghostblood position, with the term “Master Thaidakar” used by Mraize. Gavilar suspected Thaidakar for his assassination, telling him that he was “too late;” though Restares (a Son of Honor) and Sadeas were also suspects. We have no other information at the moment. Lin Davar: Father of Shallan and Helaran (along with three other siblings). He assumed the blame for the deaths of Shallan's mother and her friend in order to preserve the secret of Shallan's Radiancy and the fact that Shallan had killed them (albeit in self-defense). He grew politically ambitious, increasing House Davar's importance and preparing to make a bid for Highprince, but making enemies and alienating allies. His steward, Luesh, was his intermediary with the rest of the Ghostblood organization, which had been backing his bid for the Highprince succession and had loaned him the Soulcaster. He was killed by Shallan when he tried to kill Nan Balat during one of his rages. Luesh: Steward to Lin Davar and his intermediary with the Ghostbloods as they backed him politically. He was trained to use a Soulcaster. He (purportedly) died in his sleep after Lin's death, while Shallan was in Kharbranth. Kabsal: A Ghostblood posting as a Kharbranthian Ardent. He befriended and fell in love with Shallan, but his main purpose was to assassinate Jasnah Kholin. He died from poisoned bread during the assassination attempt after Jasnah inadvertently Soulcast the antidote. Shallan: Following Jasnah's "death," Shallan's encounter with Tyn, and her arrival at the Shattered Plains, Shallan infiltrated the Ghostblood organization under the alias Veil. She was ultimately admitted as a full Ghostblood member, but her true identity was ultimately discovered. Despite this, Mraize still offered her the membership. "Let Shallan Davar be a Radiant, conformist and noble. Let Veil come to us. And let her find truth." Interesting quote (from Mraize's conversation with Shallan at the end of Words of Radiance): "Your family [the Davar's] has a long history of involvement in these events." The Sons of Honor: The Sons of Honor are a group of Vorin extremists. Fortunately (or unfortunately), we see a lot of them through the interactions and investigations of Amaram, especially from Words of Radiance. (Ironically, the English singular – Son of Honor – is only one letter away from perfect Rosharan symmetry, a good Vorin name.) Their purpose is to return the Desolations in order to bring back the Heralds and restore the Heirocratic dominance of Old Vorinism. While obviously misguided and misinformed, and seemingly unimportant, they still manage to kick up quite the storm. Restares: We know little more of Restares than we do of Thaidakar. The apparent leader of the Sons of Honor, all we truly know is that he is Amaram’s superior, one of Gavilar’s murder suspects, and that his cronies were “close,” according to Mraize, presumably to finding Urithiru. He is usually mentioned in context with Thaidakar. He is the individual to whom Amaram sent his progress report at the end of Words of Radiance. Amaram: A devout Son of Honor, he has been seeking Heralds (namely the “person who calls himself Taln), gathering maps (presumably seeking Urithiru), and trying to get the Parshendi to transform into Voidbringers. While he has garnered much dislike in the novels and among fans for murdering Kaladin’s men and being generally dishonorable, I feel he is no worse (and absolutely no better) than many of the other misguided, semi-antagonistic members of such secret societies; while he is more misguided than most, he honestly feels he is doing what is best for Roshar, without regard to himself, but has a very destination-before-journey mindset that is common in similar individuals (Taravangian, Mraize, and even Hoid to an extent). The Diagramists: The most appreciated and generally understood secret organization, the society of the Diagram is the prime example of “Destination before Journey,” summarized by the Catechism of the Back of the Flowered Painting: Q: What cost must we bear? A: The cost is irrelevant. Mankind must survive. Our burden is that of the species, and all other considerations are but dust by comparison On the night of his death, Gavilar confided in King Taravangian of Kharbranth, telling him of his visions of the Almighty. Following this, Taravangian sought out the Nightwatcher, asking for the capacity to save humankind. The result? Daily intelligence fluctuations, inversely connected with compassion levels. Then came one “singular day of unparalleled brilliance,” “making connections no man had ever before made”: The Diagram. Information written in an alien script (devised by Taravangian that day to express information more clearly) all over Taravangian’s bedroom, with a key fortunately carved into his table; now codified (in its original form) for more practical use. Although Taravangian’s Interlude maintains that he did not truly see into the future, the Diagram has made “eerily accurate” (though not entirely infallible) predictions of the results of specific actions necessary to unite the world (under Taravangian) to resist the Desolation, as his interpretation of Gavilar’s visions required: “You must become king. Of everything.” Quotes: · Inaccuracies: The Diagram, while startlingly accurate, has been off about a few things, more so the farther into the future it goes. Taravangian hopes for another day of equivalent intelligence to revamp the Diagram, but Adrotagia’s calculations declare this to be unlikely. Therefore, the current method is to use Death Rattles, little precognitive phrases uttered by the dying, created by Moelach (according to the Diagram, one of the Unmade) and powered by the “spark of life itself.” Two problems thus arise: First, that the Diagram is gradually decreasing in accuracy; Second, that the method of updating the Diagram is controlled by an evil, powerful being most likely a Splinter of Odium. These could have interesting future ramifications. · Death Rattles: · Sleepers: These are members of the Diagramist group, likely a term for a specific type of undercover agent. “Wake every Alethi sleeper we have; send every agent in the area.” These may include Graves and his men. · Silent Gatherers: These Diagramists are headed by Joshor and are in charge of murdering the terminally ill in the Kharbranthian hospitals in order to find and record as many Death Rattles as possible to augment the Diagram. Members: · Taravangian: King of Kharbranth and now Jah Keved, Taravangian was the confidante of Gavilar Kholin on his final night. After seeking out the Nightwatcher, he received the boon of intelligence fluctuation and created the Diagram on a day of unparalleled genius (as explained above). Through his occasional brilliance, he is able to interpret the Diagram and is the leader of the society. “Besides, in dealing with the Diagram, he might not remember what he had written or why – but there were echoes sometimes.” · Adrotagia: Head of Taravangian’s scholars and his boyhood friend. Following Taravangian, she probably knows the most about the Diagram. · Mrall: Taravangian’s bodyguard, in charge of determining his capacity to serve in public on a daily basis. A peculiar figure, he claims to be able to “change emotions on a whim,” such as ceasing to take pleasure in suffering. · Graves: A self-styled Alethi patriot and a Shardbearer, he was in charge of the group trying to assassinate King Elhokar. He is now fleeing the Shattered Plains. Through the assassination attempt, he recruited Moash to their cause. · Szeth-son-son-Vallano: Truthless of Shinovar, the Assassin in White. An explanation should be unnecessary. From the middle of The Way of Kings to the end of Words of Radiance, he is under the control of Taravangian and acts on his orders. The Skybreakers: The name originally applied to an order of the Knights Radiant. Whether they remain so, are the organizational remnant of what used to be Radiants, are Radiants ("This act of great villainy went beyond the impudence which had hitherto been ascribed to the orders; as the fighting was particularly intense at the time, many attributed this act to a sense of inherent betrayal; and after they withdrew, about two thousand made assault upon them, destroying much of the membership; but this was only nine of the ten, as one said they would not abandon their arms and flee, but instead entertained great subterfuge at the expense of the other nine."), or merely share the same name and Heraldic leader remains unknown. In any case, they are a group headed by Nalan, Herald of Justice. They do seem to “put the law above all else,” though laws are twisted to suit their needs, and they certainly have a proliferation of Shardblades; however, their actions do not seem Radiant-worthy and they seem to be trying to assassinate – pseudolegally, of course – Surgebinders along the path to Radianthood, all in the name of preventing another Desolation. The best knowledge comes from the Interludes of Ym and Lift, along with Szeth’s portion of chapter 88 of Words of Radiance. I hope for a vast increase of information with the release of the next book (such as the information and references in The Way of Kings versus those in Words of Radiance.) · Nalan’elin: “Nin” to Szeth, almost certainly Darkness to Lift and the man in Ym’s story; Herald of Justice, Divine Attributes of Just and Confident. We don’t know what the years since Aharietiam have truly done to the Heralds, though they seem to be “doing worse.” This one has gained a penchant for assassinating Surgebinders and (Jezerezah only knows what else he’s been up to! I’ll leave it up to your imagination). · Szeth-son-Neturo: Once again, the Assassin in White needs little introduction. Now he has and a mission to bring justice to the leaders of the Shin, and he is learning at the feet of a dangerous Herald who may or may not be just as unstable as Szeth. · Helaran: Shallan’s oldest brother apparently “sought out the Skybreakers,” presumably where he received his Shardblade and Plate. Taravangian and Adrotagia considered him a possible tutor of Shallan in her Surgebinding. Nothing else is known, despite Shallan’s flashbacks (I am beginning to tire of saying that. I expect some good information from the third book!) The Envisagers: A cult, as Teft called them, that “believed in the Radiants, Heralds, and Old Vorinism; especially Old Vorinism.” They believed that if they could return the Voidbringers, it would bring back the Knights Radiant (comparable to the Sons of Honor in the preceding respects). They believed that if they put their members in mortal danger, they would manifest Surgebinding powers – a Snapping concept, of sorts. None did, but many (including Teft’s mother) died trying. Teft turned the Envisagers in to his citylord, who executed them all. If other groups exist, he (and we) is unaware. NOTE: This concludes the section on all known secret societies – at least, those known to be secret societies. The two following are potential candidates once more information is known; as things stand, any accusations of ulterior goals remain theorization. I hope the information is helpful, regardless. The Ardentia: The Vorin ardentia are the religious officials that remain after the Sunmaker destroyed the Heirocracy and Old Vorinism. While they lack the overwhelming political power they had previously, they are extraordinarily well placed to be a massive secret society in the Vorin nations of the East: ardents include cutting-edge scientists, scholars with access to practically all of the Eastern world’s knowledge (especially the Palanaeum), politicians (though they technically aren’t supposed to be), religious authorities and advisors, fighters, Shard-trained soldiers, and Soulcasters – in fact, they control all known Soulcasting fabrials. They seem too suspicious and well-positioned, especially with the fact that they once controlled the major Vorin nations. Stone Shamans and the Shin: I hesitated to include these, but the information, while mildly speculative and not truly a secret society, could still be of use. Stone Shamans seem to be the leaders of the Shin – certainly of their religion, which worships the spren of stone. They have the Honorblades and have kept them safe “for millennia” – likely since the Last Desolation. Szeth mentions eight of the nine, specifically (though he wasn’t terribly surprised with the fabricated news that one was stolen), and we have WOB that a Herald came back for his. Unfortunately, insofar as I know, we lack a time indicator – whether it was immediately following the Desolation, before Szeth’s expulsion, or afterwards is unknown, and the latter would mean that there is another unaccounted Honorblade. Presumably, the Stone Shamans use them, for they would have been able to retrieve the Honorblade following Szeth’s death in normal circumstances (whether they will try or succeed to regain the Honorblade from the new Knights Radiant remains to be seen) – though how this reconciles with the societal abhorrence of weapons and soldiery is unknown. Regardless, we know Szeth plans to “face enemies with Shards and with power.” Besides the ownership of the Honorblades (and potentially other Shards), however, is the potential knowledge, both generally held and that discovered by Szeth, leading to his naming as Truthless. Unfortunately, all that we know is very vague and will likely remain so until Szeth visits Shinovar or we see his flashbacks. Regardless, we can extrapolate from the few glimpses Szeth does give us, namely in Interlude 9 of The Way of Kings and phrases screamed while fighting Kaladin. Something made Szeth believe that the Radiants and Voidbringers had returned. He told others, probably the Stone Shamans, but was convinced or forced - despite what he claims his honor demanded - to become Truthless. (I am of the opinion that he was forced religiously, and he complied in the name of law and order, which Nalan claimed Szeth worshipped - “They told me I was Truthless,” emphasis added, and “There was no place for him in the Valley of Truth,” a name that seems to imply religious significance. There is also an interesting dichotomy following his acceptance of his station; while “his honor demanded” that the Voidbringers existed despite the fact that “his punishment declared that they did not,” the appearance of Kaladin as a budding Radiant made Szeth question his nature as Truthless until Taravangian’s explanation forced him to remain in his place.) Along with a possible knowledge of Radiants and Voidbringers, Szeth recognizes a Herald on sight (albeit by a different name than they are called in Vorin nations), and he knows more about Surgebinding than the Ars Arcanum from The Way of Kings and arguably that of Words of Radiance, despite Shinovar’s lack of access to Stormlight. They also had a knowledge of Urithiru. It will be very interesting to learn more of the Shin in future novels. Honorable mention: These are groups that deserve notice but lack requisite information for full consideration. Worldsingers: An order that travels across Roshar, "spreading knowledge of cultures, peoples, thoughts, and dreams; bringing peace through understanding." They claim that their charge to do so came directly from the Heralds. Related to the Worldbringers of Terris and probably founded by Hoid, Hoid is a member and was the mentor to Sigzil, graduating him during The Way of Kings. Veristitalians: A group of scholars that seeks to find the truth of what has happened in the past, such as finding natural explanations for supernatural phenomena and discovering unbiased history. Jasnah is a prominent member. Stormwardens: A group of make scholars finding loopholes in Vorin restrictions. They mathematically predict highstorms, use glyphs as a written phonetic script, etc. Several stormwardens have been involved with secret societies, but nothing indicates that the organization as a whole is. Vanrial: Am order of artists at Silent Mount in Jah Keved, responsible for preserving the full text of The Way of Kings throughout the Hierocracy. Each year they sing songs believed to be in the Dawnchant, of which Dalinar's visions seem to be giving a translation. Oldbloods: The descendants of the dynasty that once, long ago, ruled Alethkar. They mark themselves with blue tattoos on the cheek. Teleb, a Kholin highofficer and ultimately a Shardbearer, is an Oldblood. "In Yulay, there are groups of people who talk of the Radiants. And wish for their return." This quote from Sigzil may refer to the Envisagers or a separate group. I hope that this compilation is helpful. If you note any inaccuracies or know of anything I overlooked, any and all help is appreciated – I mean this to be a full, complete resource for anyone that could use it. Thank you! Edit 1: Updated the Ghostblood information, switching Iyatil for Mraize (as the assassin fit Amaram), added nonlethal poison as an option, fixed ambiguity of worldhopper status for Mraize and Iyatil, fixed "creature in Tukar," and added Lin Davar, Luesh, Kabsal, and Shallan/Veil. Edit 2: Added Worldsingers, Veristitalians, Stormwardens, Vanrial, Oldbloods, and Yulay groups.
  8. So I am not always here reading various theories, therefore I am surely creating a hypothesis that has already been made before. But what if the Ghostbloods (or at least Iyatil / Mraize) are part of a larger and "opposite" organization to the 17th shard? It does create a nice symmetry again, but could be taking the symmetry idea too far. It seems that Mraize and Iyatil are both worldhoppers. From the scene when Shallan first meets Mraize, she seems to see several things from different worlds, and probably there is another thread where everyone has figured out where these things are from: A vial of pale sand. - White Sand? A couple of thick hairpins. - For Hemalurgy? A lock of golden hair. - No idea The branch of a tree with writing on it. - Not sure, but the writing makes me think of AonDor. A silver knife. - Threnody, holding back the Shades? An odd flower preserved in some kind of solution. - Nalthis/Tears of Edgli? A chunk of pale pink crystal looked like it might be some kind of gemstone - Not sure Perhaps the Ghostbloods are going directly against the 17th shard, trying to figure out how to get super powerful through different types of investiture? Ok, apologies if all this has been said before.
  9. This has been bugging me. Which organization do these two belong to? My conclussions: Restares is a Son of Honor who was second in command before Gavilar's assassination. Now that Gavilar is dead, I believe that Restares is in charge because Mraize refers to Amaram (speculation) as one of Restares cronies.
  10. One turning point in WoK is the lesson Jasnah gives Shallan in practical philosophy. To all appearances, these two protoRadiants are accosted by thugs looking to gain a few spheres through a simple mugging. But this is long before either we or Shallan have an inkling of Roshar's secret society undercurrents. It becomes clear in WoR that Jasnah is (with good reason) actively guarding against attempts on her life by at least one shadowy organization. Mraize later tells Shallan that Jasnah had already killed several members of the Ghostbloods. I wonder, then, whether the obvious premeditation behind the "philosophy lesson" did not have an ulterior purpose. Were the "thugs" actually would-be assassins who were specifically targeting Jasnah? Jasnah tells Shallan that she chose their alleyway based on reports of muggings and murders in the area. This could well be true, and she chose to kill the miscreants to make the city safer. Perhaps it was a favor to kind old Taravangian, who doesn't have the resources to protect his citizens. Perhaps it was more personal, and (as some have speculated) she bears a grudge against people who take advantage of women--past trauma fueling rage against these individuals. Then again, this reasoning that Jasnah presents could be either wholly fabricated or simply incidental to her real purpose. Perhaps she (or Ivory) had identified a tail following her around. Maybe the alley she went to didn't matter, she was just finding a place isolated enough for them to make their move. We don't get to see their bodies after the event, so we don't know if they had ghostblood tattoos or not. Even if they didn't they could have been hired for the hit, like Tyn, or be members of another secret society. Am I missing any evidence that would suggest that the event was simply a mugging-gone-wrong? Or evidence that the thugs had a very specific victim in mind?
  11. So you know those three diamond shapes that appear between paragraphs sometimes(the symbol of the Ghostbloods)? And the endnotes that seem to be written by Ghostbloods hence (from The Way of Kings) "Joshor, Head of His Majesty's Silent Gatherers, Tanatanev, 1173." His majesty being Taravangian. Just a thought. Not actually sure if there's enough evidence (or even if this stuff is correct, seeing as they could be false conclusions and I have actually finished WoR ). Edit: *Please reply if you have anything that contradicts or supports this theory. Thank you.
  12. With WoR, we have more of an idea about the factions on Roshar. I was particularly intrigued by the following snippet from ch 54: I thought it would be interesting to have a compilation of the factions and what we know about each. I have started it and will compile contributions from this thread, if people want to contribute. So the parties that we are aware of: Diagramists Ghostbloods Radiants Shamanate Skybreakers Sons of Honor Wit/Hoid 17th Shard What we know about the parties Diagramists Led by Mr. T Goal: Some humans survive Desolation Method: Destabilize, take over and ? Members: Mrall, Abrotogar (sp), Graves Ghostbloods Led by Master Thaidakar Cosmere aware (local species of human) Members: Iyatil (babsk of Mraize?), Mraize, Jin Aware of Mr. T/Diagramists creating chaos former members: Kabsal, Lin Davar, Heleran Davar? Radiants Members: Dalinar (Bondsmith), Jasnah (Elsecaller) (assumes she will join w/others), Kaladin (Windrunner), Renarin (Truthwatcher), Shallan (Lightweaver) Goal: destroy Odium? Shamanate possess 7 Honorblades Skybreakers Led by Nin/Nalan members: Szeth Nightblood Sons of Honor members: AmaramWit/Hoid Stop Odium Honorblade, presumed allomancer 17th Shard Leader: Dragon Members: Gallodon,
  13. Chapter 43 has Hoid in the header and i can't figure out who he is or if he's just someone they mention in this chapter. The only person I can think he'd be is the guard who lets Shallan down into the secret basements, but he would need to be well disguised if that's him. Has anyone figured this out?
  14. I made a point of paying attention to the chapter-headings when reading WoR, and so was quite surprised to see Hoid's symbol (the masked man) in the arch above a decidedly Witless chapter. The chapter in question (WoR Ch. 43) is the one where Shallan meets with the Ghostbloods in a the Creepy Cellar of Doom. In that cellar, she finds, among other things, an odd flower and some sand. I'm not up on my unpublished works (and don't wish to be) but doesn't sand come into play in one of the magic systems? The flower hints at Hallandren. Some of the other items tickle at my mind, but I can't place them. Is it possible, then, that The CCD was Hoid's base (or at least one of them)? If so, we must ask if he gave the Ghostbloods the key and if so why. EDIT: That'll teach me to post before looking. Havoc already has a nice little cosmere-connections thread, though he didn't go down this path. He hazards a few guesses at the items, though.
  15. Alright, before I start, I'll warn you guys that this theory has almost no evidence behind it at all. It just has that "Brandon Sanderson plot twist" feeling to it. We know that Kabsal was a Ghostblood. However, he was also very good at playing the part of an ardent. In fact, the only time we saw his true nature was when he began to rage about how beaten-down the ardentia was. He claimed that the ardents had become property to the Brightlords, and that people ignored them. This leads me to believe that Kabsal really was an ardent, and wasn't just pretending to be one. Then, there was a strange event at one of Elkohar's feasts that seems to be mostly forgotten in this forum. An ardent belonging to Brightlord Hatham approached Dalinar with this message: "Just as Hatham wishes his partner in negotiations to know of his goodwill, I wish you to know of our goodwill toward you, Brightlord." I got the feeling that the "we" in this statement wasn't referring to the ardent and Hatham, who has been a minor character so far. Instead, I connected it to another organization we know has connections to the ardentia: the Ghostbloods. I feel that the most likely motivation for a secret organization of ardents, especially considering Kabsal's monologue, is the reinstitution of the Heirocracy. Any thoughts on this almost totally baseless theory? =)
  16. I have a theory and while I think it might be a little obvious I don't think it's been brought up directly on the forums. Here's the gist. The Vorin church over the past 4500 year has been run and structured for the main purpose of confusing and corrupting knowledge of the Knights Radiant, the Desolations, and the Voidbringers. I also believe that this was due to the influence of Odium as any long term effort to hurt the people of Rhosar's chances to survive the final desolation could potentially be accredited to the Odious one. Furthermore their takeover of the Silver Kingdoms during the Hierocracy preceding the intervention of the SunKing was not folly, but their masterstroke. They were able to destroy practically all books or resources containing any knowledge of the past (except the library of Karbranth of course). Lets take a look at what we know about the church and how it's very structure prohibits the spread of knowledge. Devotaries are the main way by which pious Vorin's show their faith. A Devotary has each devotee devote themselves to ONE noble aspect of the church. The male arts are brute and mostly involve fighting, since the church teaches that the greatest calling a man can fulfill is to be the greatest of warriors and to ascend to the Tranquiline Halls and reclaim them for man. This Devotion caused men to hold no interest in scholarship, lighteyed males had better rule a town/halmet/city/territory get to war or become and ardent, that is what is proper. They have no desire to read or gain knowledge of the past, reading is a shameful activity for a man, better to have a proper lady read to you. Even the amount of reading that Dalinar has pursued caused court gossip, thoough the fact that the book is the Way of Kings doesn't help. The female Devotary arts are mostly art (painting, music, poetry, embroidery) and scholarly pursuits, but a real lady should try to stick to the flowery ones since the most prominent scholars tend to become Heretics like Jasnah Kholin (I'm just riffing here some of this isn't explicitly said but are either implied or are the feelings I get from reading) {Also I don't agree with the sexist nature of this I'm just talking like an Alethi here). What they've done is separate those with Power (Men, Warlords, High Princes) from those with knowledge (Women, Scholars, Artists ) . Now I know a good light eyes couple will always be paired up, but even in this context the females are hiding knowledge in simple messages and texts with footnotes that men don't know about. And what men can read? Ardents can! And through this power they can have a greater influence on history. **Spoiler Spoiler ** The distinction between Vorinism and Old Vorinism is the reverence of the KR and the Heralds. They were venerated once and now are thought of as betrayers. Now the Recreance sure didn't help this, but a huge shift in trends like this needs some kind of push to get things going. Then it needs a stealthy hand to guide it on the right track. This is how Over the years, possibly without the entire churches overt knowledge, they could quietly secret away bits of lore and knowledge until we get to the current model of understanding about the past (not much that's accurate). Now if it is a smaller subset of the church driving this, it could be that during the Sunmaker's destruction of the Heirocracy, this piece of the church would need to completely break off to survive. They wouldn't disappear however they'd become ... The Ghostbloods. Do they have a secret library of old world knowledge? Is it the library of Karbranth? Tune in for WOR and hope we find out! I'm kind of running out of steam now so I'll come back later with some references and the like. But I think this is an interesting topic of pursuit and I hope it sparks some conversation.