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  1. This WoB suggests that a forged metal would be viable for Allomancy, but burning the metal is destructive to it and would destroy the stamp. What if you were to do this with Feruchemy? Would the attribute stay stored in the metal, even though it's no longer the right type? Could you get a two attribute metalmind this way? What about Hemalurgy?
  2. So I was thinking, if you change your history with an Essence Mark so you spent a large period of your life in a Cadmium bubble or a Bendalloy bubble, could you become younger or older with an Essence Mark? Would that require additional Investiture?
  3. @Longshot97 made a comment on the Giant Carved Forgery thread about using an entire stone pillar to stamp someone. I imagine this was mostly humorous in nature, but it got me thinking; what if you made a Soulstamp with above-average amounts of Investiture (probably with the giant modified stamp) and then made a stamp that was designed to fit around the entire body of the person to be stamped? Soulstamps have a resistance to physical force, so if Invested more they'd resist those forces better. Plus, while you can normally only have one Forgery active on a person at a time- thus limiting the amount of the person's body that would be shielded by the stamp- a stamp made out of a mold that fit around a person's entire body would allow the whole thing to shield the entire body. Another possibility I suppose would simply to stamp each separate portion of armor that a person could carry, treating them as separate pieces. Do I think any of this is an efficient use of Investiture? No. But if limited to only this system I think it could have some use.
  4. So I was wondering how stealing things with Hemalurgic spikes would work on someone who was changed by Forgery after it wears off. If you stabbed Shaizan (Shai with her warrior Essence Mark) with an iron spike, would it steal her relative strength, but then lower in strength after the Forgery would wear off? (I also have a theory that you could Forge a Misting into a different type of Misting, due to both having Preservations Investiture in their spiritweb) If you Forged a Coinshot to be a Thug, then stole their Allomancy with a steel spike, would the spike grant pewter-burning until the Forgery wears off, then give steel-burning? More interestingly, what if the original type doesn't conform to the metal, i.e. Forging a Rioter to be a Thug, and stealing that with a steel spike, after it wore off, would the brass Allomancy disappear, or somehow be in a steel spike. I did find this WoB but it doesn't really state what happens after it wears off.
  5. It's been a while since I've made a good post about Forgery, but I've finally come up with another idea. AonDor can potentially have its power amplified by having larger Aons being drawn; In fact, I think this is a big part of why Elantris is able to increase the Elantrians' power so much; it's so big that it can do that. So what if you carved your Stamp into a massive stone pillar (or multiple pillars. Boom, Sel's Stonehenge is born) and Connected it to the Linchpin stamp actually used to stamp someone? Could you amplify the power you could draw from the Dor to make more unlikely things be possible via Forgery? It still has a pretty big limitation as you'd need to stay close to the stone(s) to maintain the Forgery, but there could potentially be some circumstances where it would be useful.
  6. The question of changing out spikes has come up a lot, but it is a difficult job because most spikes are in a place where it would be lethal to remove. So my idea is you Forge the spike that is a different one, either you could have taken a different ability (you killed someone else instead of the person you actually killed) or you placed a different spike in that same bind-point. WoB So if you have enough Investature you could do this. For simplicity in the origins of the metal, you can Soulcast your own and Forge the spike.
  7. I was thinking about the magic system in a book I’m writing, and realized that it was slightly similar to Forgery, in that you take magic ink, write/draw with it, and something happens. As I am currently developing which symbols do what, this got me thinking about what, in Forgery, you carve on the Soulstamp to convey meaning. As I don’t think we know this, I thought about this in Forgery and thought of a rune-like arcane symbol that has a specific meaning not decided by not-very invested entities that is carved into the stamp. Almost like Aons. Then, my brain started coming up with ways that all the Selish magic systems work with this. I never actually finished Elantris, but on the Coppermind I learned about Dakhor, where bones twist into “ancient Fjordell characters” that decide the effect of the magic. Perhaps this is how Hrovell potions are Invested. Bloodsealing we know very little about, but I think could work with this. Thoughts? Is this very obvious and I just somehow never realized it? Am I completely off? How does ChaySan fit into all this?
  8. I'm pretty sure I've done a thread before on using Forgery to remove Savantism. However, what if someone tried to use Forgery to grant Savantism? Let's have a fun little story to go with this idea; There is a Tineye that works for the Ghostbloods named Jake. Jake, somewhat naturally, doesn't want to permanently suffer the ill effects of Savantism, but knows that with it's power he could accomplish a lot more for his organization. Shai is his friend and creates a Soulstamp for Jake to turn him temporarily into a Savant so that he can get the benefits of it when he needs it and so that he can remove the downsides when he is done with using it. Does this sound like a plausible thing to do?
  9. We know that it's already possible to take Invested powers made through Forgery with Hemalurgy (WoB). We also know that Southern Scadrial is finding ways to let inanimate objects use Feruchemy and Allomancy using Harmonium. We know that it's possible to Hemalurgically spike inanimate objects so long as they are "alive" enough (WoB). And finally, we know that you can force a Forgery to take on someone it wasn't intended for so long as their soul is "familiar" with the soul of the person who was intended to be stamped (basically, Connections must exist between the two). So, with that in mind, I hypothesize that you could make a Forgery to stamp a Scadrien (let's name him Joe for fun ) into an Allomancer or Feruchemist, then make a device that used Feruchemical duralumin to Connect to Joe. You then place the Forgery on the device instead of the Joe. Even though the Forgery won't take for long, you don't need it to last more than a second or two to Hemalurgically spike out the Invested power. And there you go, no people spiked but one Hemalurgic spike Invested with one Metalborn power. Get enough Investiture to use and you may be able to mass produce Hemalurgic spikes this way.
  10. So here's what I started with. I had to think a bit to deal with the necessary quarter-turn when using a Stamp or an Essence Mark. You have a sledge hammer and a stamp. You tap a wall with the sledge hammer and then stamp the wall with something along the lines of "that person with a sledge hammer decided to take a full swing at me and knocked me in". Does it work? How permanent is it? Shai stamps a door and weakens it before kicking through it, but she doesn't stick around long enough for it. Alternately, you are working on a demolition crew. you knock down one wall and then stamp the others with a stamp that goes along with "the demolition person started with me first and now I'm broken". Next scenario: You have a stamp made into basically a signet ring. The stamp rewrites the immediate history of "that person just punched me in the face hard enough that I was knocked out". You punch someone anywhere with skin contact and do the necessary stamp twist on contact. Does it work? Next scenario: You have a spear shaft with a stamp on the end of it. At home you have a regular, high quality spear. The stamp rewrites history with "that person didn't grab the stamp on the end of stick this morning, they grabbed the spear next to it instead and they just stabbed me and now I'm bleeding out". Next scenario: You are a battlefield armorer. You have a selection of more general purpose stamps for armor that rewrite history 5-30 minutes previously with things like "the soldier that was wearing me was smart enough to duck" or "today I was issued to someone on guard duty, not that poor sucker on the frontlines". Do they work and is this a good idea or a bad idea to repair armor, considering it will take even more damage to break the repair seal? Next scenario: An assassin has a single stamp. It rewrites history with "I just barely had a sudden stroke and I'm dying". Can it cause permanent death, if so, what would the autopsy show after the stamp degrades? What if the assassin breaks the seal after 5-10 minutes? Thoughts? This might not be that important since Moonlight can make portable doors, but it's an alternate methodology and idea.
  11. In The Emperor's Soul, Shai mentions that there is a high likelihood that Ashravan's mind would eventually accept the changes made by his Soulstamp and he would no longer need to receive a new stamping each morning. I think I have an idea for how this might work, and perhaps the extent to which Soulstamps can be made permanent without any other magic system hacks. Think of it this way; a Forger (let's call him Jim) stamps himself so that his past self was slightly more proactive, giving himself a year of training with the sword. The Forgery takes well, as he's always wanted to use the blade, he just never had enough motivation or money to easily or consistently practice it. Jim continues to stamp himself each day, practicing and using his sword and winning duels- laying Connections and in his Spiritweb of having skill with the sword and forming memories in his Cognitive aspect. Even though the fake Connections and memories fade, the new Connections and memories don't'- they are natural and will stay even after the stamp falters. As such, Jim will continue to build up these Connections and memories until he has skill comparable to, and perhaps beyond, what he had originally Forged into himself. As for Invested abilities Forged into the Spiritweb (such as Allomancy), I don't think that they will stay; they are formed from extra Investiture added to the Spiritweb, not just Connection. As such, even if you used a power a lot that had been Forged into the Spiritweb and made lots of natural Connections to it, it would still vanish with the rest of the unnatural changes made by the Forgery. (As a side note, I don't think that the temporary powers are made of Kinetic Investiture, as they can be stolen and used by Hemalurgy- otherwise they'd disperse right after being captured inside a spike without any fuel to maintain them-, but they must use Kinetic Investiture from the Soulstamp to be Forged and to remain in place.) Still, lots of potential for permanent Forgery, I'd say. I'd love to hear your guy's thoughts on the matter
  12. I was re-reading the Emperor's Soul earlier today when something caught my eye; in order to use a Flesh Forgery, you have to have a very specific knowledge of the body's structure. You can kill someone if you aren't careful. I believe that this means that this aspect of Forgery isn't the same as simply rewriting your past so that you never took the wound- otherwise, things wouldn't be so hazardous, since if you messed up the worst that would happen would be that the injury stayed put until you came up with a more convincing stamp. No, it is my hypothesis that Flesh Forgery allows one to directly alter the body's structure, hence the reason you can accidentally kill someone with it; you aren't bound by what a person's past is, you can just write their body to be what you want it to be. This has made me wonder if someone highly skilled could use effects similar to Hemalurgy- physically altering individuals to the practitioner's liking, and since the practitioner is the one writing every little change, they'd be able to be much more precise in what they modified. Perhaps a Kandra could use a Connection hack to access Forgery, then combine their honed knowledge of the body's inner workings with Flesh Forgery to achieve better results. Or perhaps just having a Kandra skilled with modifying their body talking to and experimenting with a Flesh Forger could lead to new innovations on body modification. If you really want to see a stamp made permanent and portable beyond MaiPon's borders, you could Hemalurgically spike out the stamp's effects, then give them back to yourself via the spike. And now I wonder what some of the creative uses of Flesh Forgery could be; could you temporarily rewrite your age, similar to Atium Compounding? Could you enhance your natural senses beyond human capacity? Could you make yourself into a more humane form of a Koloss (inhumanly muscled, but nothing else)? Could you create a universal stamp that physically hampers you enemies (very low muscle mass or some form of paralysis) so that even those with Invested healing such as Miles could be temporarily disabled? So much potential, assuming, of course, that it all works the way I'm imagining it, which, of course it may not
  13. Okay, so Compounding isn't normally possible via Hemalurgy due to Identity contamination; so long as the Identity of the Hemalurgic spike and that other power (whether it be another spike or a natural Metalborn power) aren't the same. But what if you Forge someone into a Misting for a certain metal, Hemalurgically spike the power from them, use Forgery to turn them into a Ferring for the same kind of metal as they were a Misting for, spike that power out, and then you give them both spikes afterward. Would they be able to Compound since both spikes technically work from the same person? Or, what if you instead give the spikes to someone else? Would they be able to Compound since the spikes share the same Identity, and even though the Hemalurgist's Identity is there to muddy things up, it does so equally to both. So would that still work? Honestly, Forgery and Hemalurgy just go so well together.
  14. Forgery can only allow something reasonable to be changed about someone's past to create a different present version of oneself. Hemalurgy can take pieces of people's Spiritwebs, their Connection and Identity, and staple it on to someone else. So, could you take a part of someone's Spiritweb, give yourself the spike, and then use a Soulstamp on yourself that would have worked on the other person? For example, could a Scadrien Hemalurgist spike something out of Moonlight, give themselves the spike, then take her Elantrian-making Soulstamp and use it one themselves?
  15. So my brain spawned yet another way to hack magic systems together to make them even better Let's say that you use Forgery to overwrite a Koloss Spiritweb, saying that it never received its Hemalurgic spikes. I see a few possibilities if this were to be done: 1. the Koloss dies as they turn back into a human; their spikes no longer function well enough to prevent the wounds they inflict from killing their bearer. 2. the Koloss turns back into a human, but the Hemalurgic spikes resist and are rejected from the body (as the Koloss's body fights against their intrusion) if the Forgery takes; the changes made by the spike and the changes made by the stamp are too incompatible with one another to exist with any sense of stability. 3. the Koloss turned human retains their spikes without dying (the soul of the recipient adapts to their Investiture, similar to Feruchemy adapting the Feruchemist to deal with an unexpected influx of attributes), but the spikes remain completely dormant and don't give any additional benefits until the Forgery wears off. 4. same as #3, but the spikes continue to provide a magical boost to the former Koloss but don't warp them enough to turn them into a Hemalurigc construct- just enough to keep the person from being killed by the spikes. The reason I even argue that this could take place is because Returned can do something similar; they can suppress their Divine Breath but still retain some benefits from it, such as enhanced speed and strength, and their Lifesense doesn't disappear (see Zahel in WoR when Kalain wakes him up at night). Basically, you might be able to use Forgery hack Hemalurgy in such a way that you could give humans Kandra Blessings but without turning them into Hemalurgic constructs (Hemalurgic weakness likely would remain though; the cracks in the Spiritweb aren't removed as far as I can tell). Now, as I understand it this might require some "jerry-rigging" of sorts, but I believe that it might be possible given the examples above.
  16. I thought of another cool hack to gain Allomancy; using Feruchemy to overcome the limited available Investiture in Forgery. 1. Use Forgery on a Scadrian to turn them into an Allomancer or Ferruchemist, but one who has had their power Hemalurgically stolen and survived. This means that the Forgery will require far less Investiture to achieve the end result, and therefore should be more within the scope of what Forgery can normally achieve. 2. Give the Scadrian access to Feruchemical gold, likely with a Southern Scadrian medallion. Since the person's Spiritweb thinks that they should have an Invested power, the Investiture "heals" a new piece of Investiture onto the Spiritweb, creating a new power where one hadn't existed previously. If it proves impossible to get the power to stay after the Soulstamp runs out, you could Hemalurgically remove the new power to use later (which isn't the ideal case, but you'd still get a functional power where one didn't exist before). Plus, if the new power is just an extension of the Forgery, then removing it would likely not cause serious spiritual damage to the donor since it isn't a real part of them.
  17. It seems like breaths are the easiest magic system to forge. Can they be forged, how difficult a forgery would it be, and how much fuel would it require? Is a single breath powered by the stamp, is it linear?
  18. So it's been said before that using Forgery to do things like 'turn someone into a Misting' would take a LOT of Investiture, more than a typical Forger would have. And based on what I know Forgery isn't like AonDor where you could string a bunch of Aon Rao's together to boost the results, so what's a Forger to do to get the Investiture needed for such a thing? Breath, becoming an Elantrian somehow, stacking more Forgery-ness with Hemalurgy?
  19. I have a little idea as to how someone could learn the contents of a huge library without ever even cracking the cover of most of them. First, go to the library. Second, start reading a book, but also look at the titles of the other books. Third, use a Soulstamp to rewrite your past to say that you read a different book than you actually read. Fourth, save the information of the books in a Coppermind, allowing you to retain their knowledge even after the stamp expires. What do you guys think of this plan?
  20. In The Emperor's Soul, Shai mentions that a Soulstamp placed on the emperor enough may lead to a permanent taking of the stamp. And that got me wondering; since using a form of Investiture constantly used will eventually cause savantism to occur in the practitioner, would someone who stamped themselves and renewed the stamp before it ran out for a long enough period of time become a savant, causing the stamp to take permanently, or really, would the effects of the stamp stay even after the stamp itself dissolved?
  21. Inspired by another question in this section: Since Soulcasting allows for radical changes in what objects are and how they're composed, could awareness of Soulcasting make Forgery much easier and more powerful? A Forger wouldn't need any plausible details for the change or even to know much of the history of an object. As long as the Forger is (1) aware of Soulcasting and (2) could plausibly (by Forgery standards) suggest that a Soulcaster might have been near an object at some point, the Forged history of the object could just involve a Soulcaster arbitrarily changing it. For the purposes of this question we'll handwave away the potential issues with a Soulcaster leaving Roshar and/or a Forger being able to access their art away from Sel. Would the magics interact this way, or are there other obstacles that would prevent it?
  22. Normally, a Forgery must be plausible to take. For instance, trying to turn a Scadrian with noble blood into a Misting would be more likely to take than trying to turn a Rosharan with no relation at all with Scadrial into a Misting. However, we've seen with other Cosmere magics that certain "unbreakable" rules of the magic system can be broken; you can Steelpush on metal inside people, you just need a lot of Investiture. You can Awaken a non-organic piece of matter, you just need a lot of Investiture. You can damage a supposedly indestructible Honorblade, you just need a lot of Investiture. So, with that in mind, could you create a Forgery that is so implausible that it shouldn't be possible work if you charged it with enough Investiture? For instance, if I create a Forgery of a completely fictitious person, then apply it to a random person who I have no idea what there past is, could I get it to work by forcing enough Investiture into the stamp?
  23. Let's say you want to be tall, strong, physically attractive, all that good stuff. Investiture healing can physically change you in the Cosmere, even going so far as to let you change your biological sex. However, it's tied to your self-perception, so unless you actually think that's what you are, simply tapping a Goldmind or receiving Regrowth isn't going to work for this purpose. However, there is an Invested art that allows you to change your perception. Forgery. Forgery could be used to get some of the changes you want, but they are limited to what is within the realm of plausibility, and they are temporary changes that require frequent upkeep and a close proximity to MaiPon on Sel. However, rewriting your past so that you believe you are supposed to be a certain way physically could then allow you to use a form of Invested healing to permanently gain the body you want. After the Forgery wore away, would would probably need to lay off of healing with Investiture for a time to let the changes "settle in" to your cognitive aspect, but once that happened you shouldn't need to worry, as much of the time even things that people don't want to accept as a part of themselves, such as injuries, cannot be removed through Invested healing, so something you did want should stay.
  24. Odiumiumium

    soul stamp.png

    A soulstamp used in Forgery. The stamp means absolutely nothing, and there is no map of MaiPon, so it wouldn't work, but it does look nice from one angle.
  25. I read a quote from Brandon Sanderson that it was possible for people to fabricate Spiritwebs (unfortunately, I couldn't find the quote ), so obviously I had to come up with at least a few different ways that it might be accomplished. Also, because I'm me, it mostly involves the use of Hemalurgy. Method 1: Stabbing someone repeatedly. Okay, so Hemalurgy is able to rip off chunks of functional Spiritweb that can be stapled onto another Spiritweb to hotwire the recipient's Spiritweb in such a way that it can access the ability held within the donor's Spiritweb. However, Hemalurgy also takes some other stuff in addition to the power or attribute removed, such as the person's Identity. Therefore, if someone were to use Hemalurgy on someone who could regrow the lost pieces of Spiritweb, maybe they could take from multiple bind points on the Spiritweb, then smelt the spikes together to create a full Spiritweb. Staple that soul onto a viable body, such as that of a Lifeless, and you have copy of that person (presumably). Method 2: Forging a fake soul . . . and then stabbing someone. So, you're not satisfied with simply making a copy of a Spiritweb that already exists, are you? Well, if you could use Selish Forgery to create a Spiritual overwrite, you could that use Hemalurgy to take that and then staple that into a viable body. We already know that it is possible to Hemalurgically spike off a Forgery, so this would likely be an improvement to method 1, as it would cause less damage to the donor and would allow you to create a Spiritweb that you could edit more before creation. Oh, I forgot to mention this, but Hemalurgic duralumin is probably the metal you'd want to use to create your soul, as it focuses specifically on taking Connection and Identity, rather than only taking the dregs of those two attributes.
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