Search the Community

I'm probably deeply misguided for thinking this. But hear me out. This has been bugging me for YEARS. Since the first time I read and completed the mistborn trilogy as a teenager. And it seems like no one’s addressed it. At least not comprehensively. So I will attempt to now. I humbly ask that you read the whole thing through before commenting. So you can see the full picture I’m trying to paint. Then judge my argument on its full merit. I am very open to the (probable) reality that I am very wrong. Still, it can't hurt to rant a bit ya? Brandon Sanderson (A living printer & absolute gigachad of an author) has either made the biggest accidental blunder regarding one of the most important magic systems in the Cosmere. Or has been setting up one of the biggest plot twists in the Cosmere’s history. And this is why; Allomancy, which Brandon categorised as ‘Preservation’s power’ in era one. Is NOT actually Preservation’s power, but rather Harmony’s. And I will be attempting to convince you that that is the case. Argument: Allomancy, functionally, has nothing to do with preservation, but in contrast, ferruchemy absolutely does. Ferruchemy’s whole shtick is that it allows its user to preserve attributes within metals for a practically indefinite amount of time for use later on. While allomancy on the other hand, not only doesn’t give one the power to preserve anything. But instead REQUIRES that one destroys metals by burning them in order to gain investiture and abilities. Yes, you get more out than you put in. But the same could be said about splitting an atom in a nuclear fission reaction. You destroy something in order to gain the power to do something. Ruin’s influence within this magic system is quite obvious. And yet we can’t say that it is purely his power, because even though mistborn are walking killing machines. Their power can be used to create and preserve just as well. (Ferruchemy being Preservation’s power also acts as a perfect contrast to hemallurgy. The two are exact mirrors of each other, just as the shards are.) Ferruchemy preserves. Pure and simple. Hemallurgy kills, steals, twists, and decays. Allomancy on the other hand just doesn’t quite fit either shard completely. It’s the odd one out. It always has been. Allomancy is an end-positive power precisely because it is not Preservation, or Ruins’ power singularly. And we can deduce this by looking at the natures of the two shards themselves. On their own, neither shard is capable of creating. Only preserving or destroying. Neither one is capable of producing an end-positive system. It was only when the two shards came together, agreeing to work in harmony. That they had the power to create an entire planet, biosphere, and human race entirely from scratch. Harmony did that. Not Preservation. Not Ruin. But the harmonious efforts of the two shards. And later on at the end of era one. It was only through the unification of the shards into Harmony that all the mistakes and errors made by either shard could be mended, and the world restored to its original state. The entire story is about Harmony. Harmony created the world. But once the world was created, and the agreement between the two shards fulfilled, discord followed. The two shards warred, each motivated by opposing intents. Leading to the gradual destruction of their world. And in the end, it was only the rebirth and re-establishment of Harmony that put it all back together. This thematic truth can also be observed within the characters themselves. One could argue that Vin’s entire story was about finding harmony within herself. Learning to accept the fact that she can’t cling to everything and everyone hoping that they don’t change. That they don’t leave her alone(Preservation.) While simultaneously accepting the darker parts of herself. Her capacity for violence is foremost among them(Ruin.) And through the marriage of these two sides of her, the part that seeks to protect, and the part that causes destruction. She finds harmony within herself. Learning to use that destructive force for the sake of preservation. The ruin within her yields to the preservation within her. And it is that resultant internal harmony that not only makes her so potent a mistborn, but gives her the strength to sacrifice herself to destroy Ati once and for all. Mistborn are children of Harmony. And this truth can also be seen by simply thinking about what separates them from all other allomancers. As well as what separates the normal mistborn from the great ones. Their ability to use all of their abilities in conjunction with each other to accomplish incredible acts. Vin’s creativity, her willingness to experiment, to see how two metals no matter how unrelated their powers may first seem, could work in unison with each other to produce unexpected and fantastic results. That is what made her a force of nature. Vin is the greatest mistborn we’ve ever seen precisely because she, more than any other character, mastered the art of using ALL her abilities in harmony. Viewing them as complementary pieces within a greater harmonious whole, rather than entirely distinct and separate elements. The way others, such as mistings, typically would. Counter: Platitudes! That’s all a stretch. We know that allomancy is preservation’s power because it comes from consuming beads of lerasium! Rebuttal: Does it though? This wouldn’t be the first time that the characters in the story said one thing about the nature of a metal, only for Brandon to come out later stating the opposite. I.e Atium’s true nature in era 1. So the same thing could be said about ‘Lerasium.’ I think that what we’ve been led to believe is ‘Lerasium’ is actually ‘Harmonium.’ And the fact that the beads are only found around the well of ascension is evidence of this. Why? Because the well of ascension is the location of the final clash between Ruin and Preservation. It is where Preservation died, sacrificing himself to trap ruin. I believe that when the two shards clashed here, the two clashing investitures produced beads of Harmonium as a side effect, scattering them around the well. And that it is the consumption of Harmonium that actually makes one a mistborn, not Lerasium. Counter: But in Era 2 we see what ‘Harmonium’ is actually like. It doesn’t make people mistborn. It stores allomantic charges and is extremely reactive and combustible. It can’t even be consumed! Rebuttal: Aha, exactly! Because what we see in era 2 isn’t actually ‘Harmonium.’ It’s DISCORDIUM! Somewhere in between the end of era one and the start of era two, something went wrong with either Sazed, his shard, or both. And this is what led to the shift in his shard’s capabilities and attributes in era 2. It is why he’s incapable of wielding the same degree of power he did at the end of era one. Because he’s not in harmony any more, he’s discordant. And that subtle shift has been reflected in his god-metal, twisting it from an inert metal, something that creates mistborn, to a hyper reactive metal capable of nuking cities if agitated enough. It also fits with the hero of ages prophecy. “They shall call him discord(not harmony!), and they will love him for it.” Counter: Okay then but if the beads that create mistborn are actually shards of ‘Harmonium’ created when Preservation and Ruin last battled at the well of ascension. Then what does true Lerasium actually do? Where do mistings come from? Why is it that Vin could burn Preservation’s mist to fuel her allomancy? Argument: Simple. Lerasium’s true property is that it creates ferruchemists. And in order to better support that, I need only ask. Why is it that only Sazed’s people have ferruchemy. What distinguishes them from other people on Scadrial? Simple, they are the only group of people that have been living around Preservation’s perpendicularity for centuries. They are the closest to preservation’s influence than any other group of people on the planet. I believe that either through continued exposure to high levels of preservation’s investiture over countless generations. Or the consumption of trace amounts of lerasium forming within the environment around the perpendicularity. Or even just being descended from the initial group of people who discovered the perpendicularity, who perhaps interacted with it and consumed the invesiture there somehow. And then passed on the power genetically. Mistings emerge naturally because all humans on scadrial have souls formed from both preservation and ruin. And I believe that a misting could snap from both the white or the black mist. Vin was able to use preservation’s mists to fuel her allomancy because 1) she aligned with the shard’s intent very strongly, hence why only she had the power to do this. And 2) She could absolutely have done the same thing with Ruin’s black mist if her personality aligned with his shard’s intent instead. Because allomancy arises from the union of both shards’ powers. Whichever one you can use to fuel it is entirely dependant on how strongly you align with the intent and not with the nature of your allomantic abilities. Counter: But in era 2 we see that when Wax splits ettmetal it produces atium and trace amounts of lerasium, which then go on to turn him and Wayne into mistborn! Rebuttal: No, we think that’s what happened, because that’s what the characters think happened. But the truth is, none of the characters actually know what true Lerasium is. Or what it’s supposed to behave like. Heck, they don’t even know what true Atium is like, because we’ve still never seen it! What we’re actually seeing here is the correction of an imbalance within the Ettmetal. The excess influence of ruin’s investiture in the metal is being removed, resulting in a metal that’s perfectly balanced between ruin and preservation. I.e, true ‘Harmonium.’ Ettmetal is actually ‘Discordium.’ It is innately imbalanced, carrying within it a bit more ruin than preservation, making it extremely volatile. But once split in this explosive reaction. The excess ruin investiture becomes malatium(not pure Atium, which we’ve never seen, because of whatever Leras did to ruin’s power in era 1), while the rest which is perfectly balanced with preservation’s investiture becomes true ‘Harmonium.’ And THAT is what turned Wax and Wayne into mistborn. If one wanted to produce actual Lerasium, they’d have to repeat the splitting procedure once more in order to fully split ruin’s investiture from Preservation’s. Producing pure Atium, and pure Lerasium. Whether or not that’s actually possible though is up for debate. Brandon seems to have eluded in past interviews that this should not be possible. The truth is that in era 1, Preservation did something spiritually to ruin’s power that made it so that it spawned into the world not as pure Atium, but rather as a twisted or dirty version/alloy. Malatium. Perhaps because he feared what true, pure Atium could do if people tried to burn it. And Somewhat similarly, there is a spiritual defect within Sazed and his shard that is reflected in his metal. Preventing it from manifesting as pure ‘Harmonium.’ But rather as a hyper reactive alloy, ‘Discordium.’ Which the characters refer to as Ettmetal. The truth is, we have never actually seen pure Atium, or Lerasium in ANY of the books. Only their alloys. I think that this may actually be intentional. And these intricate layers and webs of contradictions, and misconceptions will serve as the catalyst for the conflicts in the upcoming stories. And perfectly explain why Sazed has never been quite the same as the Sazed we saw at the end of Era one. Something insidious is going on. And he might not even be aware. It’s entirely possible that the main reason Sazed struggles to use his shard is because he mistakenly still thinks of the shard as Harmony, when in actuality it is Discord. The shard and the vessel are not in sync, and this is slowly destroying Sazed from within. Perhaps leading to the development of something… other. I personally think that this spiritual defect is a leftover consequence of the conflict between Ati and Leras in the past. We already know thanks to stormlight 4 that new shard holders inherit changes made to their shards by past holders. The shard’s investiture retains those spiritual bonds and quirks from the previous holder. My theory is that Sazed’s problems emerge from a confluence of 1) Whatever Leras did to Ruin’s power when he split it from him. 2) A weakening of preservation’s power, or rather output/influence/capacity, when he put more of himself within humanity than ruin did. 3) His own lack of awareness on the true nature of his shard’s nature and intent, gradually leading to him becoming an unfit vessel for the power, and thus incapable of using his powers as easily as he otherwise should. Setting up massive implications for future stories and conflicts. Conclusion: Perhaps I’m deeply misguided. Perhaps Brandon made a little mistake and I’ve been reading far to deeply into it for all these years. And in actuality none of this means anything. Perhaps Brandon is entirely unaware that this one little categorization choice he made ages ago could potentially yield all these implications. Or, maybe, just maybe. He did all this on purpose. Maybe Sazed was fated to walk the path of Discord from the start. Maybe we’ve all been duped for years and he’s been gradually working towards this grand reveal. If the latter is true my soul would quite literally ascend into the beyond. And I’ll feel like an absolute legend for having seen the whole thing coming from day one. But if not… Frankly speaking I’ll be so mad XD. Lots of love though Brandon! Thanks for the headache *End Note: The implications of all this kind of answers another question that's been bugging me as I’ve watched the grander narrative of the Cosmere slowly unfold. And that's the fact that Scadrians, without a singular doubt, seem like absolute A-holes in every story when viewed from an other-outworlder's POV. They seem exploitative, apathetic, and in many cases, they sow discord wherever they go. E.g. Sunlit Man, most interactions between ghostbloods and other-worlders, & the new secret project prologue. I noticed this because (in case you couldn’t tell by now) Scadrial and it’s people are the closest to my heart in the Cosmere. So their consistent douchebagery in other Cosmere stories has been very glaring to me. If my theory is true, and Sazed is actually Discord. And the traits of a shard can be seen reflected in the people of their world. This would all make perfect sense. Modern day Scadrians are children of Discord and that naturally makes them more prone to A-holery than most.*

I just finished reading secret history and I started thinking about the origin of the metallic arts. We know that the original allomancers were created from burning lerasium and that hemalurgists are created from their rituals, but as far as I'm aware there isn't a definitive origin to Feruchemy. I'm pretty sure Feruchemy is a combination of Preservation's and Ruin's investitures, think Sezed said something about this but I can't remember anything beyond him saying that it was end neutral for the power it gives. It is passed down, but if we can assume it's anything like allomancy, it was probably given to the ancestors of the terrace packmen. I can't imagine how it would have been given to them though. The first idea that came to my head was burning harmonium, but not only is that not chronologically possible, if that was the origin of Feruchemy I think it would have come up near the end of era 2 considering how much harmonium was thrown around by the end. The only logical thing I can think of is that Preservation and Ruin worked together to create it when they first created life. If we know this and I'm just unaware I'd like to be informed, but if not I'd like to hear other theories as to where Feruchemy comes from.

Hello, do we have some numbers, or estimates on how frequent Ferring or Mistings are? I tried looking in Coppermind/Arcanum, but could not find anything specific. Thank you.

Wax's aim seems to be unnaturaly good. Shooting for limbs from almost any distance is unfeasible even for a trained officer Source: https://www.police1.com/patrol-issues/articles/why-shooting-to-wound-doesnt-make-sense-scientifically-legally-or-tactically-6bOdYvNUEECtIWRI/ Yet Wax shot a gun out of Miles hand on more than one occasion and even shot a bullet out of midair, (albeit possibly with harmony's help) Considering how Brandon said the "Steel Bubble" was savantism, is a Crasher's resonance enhanced aim?

So I was wondering , if I were a leecher and i became a savant by constantly burning chromium. Would I eventually be able to kill ppl by touch alone. Now we know that Nightblood unsheathed and in the absence of an alternate source of investiture will feed on the soul of the wielder. Hence we can infer that souls are investivure. So is it possible that a leecher savant could actually wipe out ur soul. Just one caress and u lose ur soul. damnation that's cool. Of course in case of ppl like Radiants or wax , u would first have to burn through thier stormlight or metals/metalminds before getting to thier souls. But if u are a savant then surely u could do that quickly too right. Like maybe in two seconds. Then the soul goes in one sec. So u would have to maintain contact for 3 secs. I don't think there will too many disadvantages from being a chromium savant. Similar to how copper and bronze savants have little to fear. Tin is dangerous cause it actually affects ur body. But chromium doesn't. It might be deadly to others but u could avoid that by simply wearing gloves. I think u could stop burning chromium and suffer no ill-effects, except perhaps irritability like drug quitters suffer from. I guess u would be like Rogue from X-Men. Maybe u could even stop burning chromium for a hour or so without the itch coming in. During that hour u could be intimate with someone or you could just touch other ppl. Be normal. I think that's not too bad a price to be death incarnate. We have already seemingly seen a leecher indirectly through the article on Nicki Savage. I think the Set has a few too. Hmmm, Nicki Savage as Lady Death. So does my theory hold any water ??

Ok so the spikes required for making Kandra are easy to make right. I mean the metals are plentiful and u need to ordinary humans to get them. Not allomancers or feruchemists. Then why are there so few Kandra. I mean , yes they are nonviolent and might have a stigma towards hemalurgy but still I'm sure u could find thousands of poor or unfortunate ppl on the verge of dying due to trauma , disease ,etc ,who could be euthanized , even as a service to them. Also u could just steal some koloss spikes. Things would have been even easier in era1 following the Lord rulers death and the chaos unleashed in it's wake , I mean ok tlr's death was unexpected and deeply grievous to them and then ruin got released so they had a lot to think about. But even in era2 , where couples like tensoon and MeLaan , gave been in a relationship for centuries u don't see them hankering after children. Seems strange to me . Can anyone give a good reason why this is so ? Edit : wait MeLaan and tensoon have a dad daughter dynamic. damnation , I didn't know that. I thought they were a couple. But still if tensoon the gruff old dog could adopt a new Kandra , why don't the other more pg13 ones ?

Ok , hey , I'm a new guy . Joined today actually. Hum, please move this to the proper section if I post this into a wrong forum or something. And I confess that it's probably wrong since there are WoBs directly contradicting my theories about the hemalurgic metals. (Can someone send me those if u have them ? ) Still I thought it made an interesting theory .So here's my theory : So I was looking through the wiki and found that the 4 blessings were listed as hemalurgic iron , tin , zinc and copper. But I disagree. the mistwraiths were created from full feruchemists , so I think they needed a part of a feruchemist's spiritweb to work on a Kandra. So I think the reason there were so few Kandra in each generation was because u needed hemalurgic spikes made by killing feruchemists. Therefore the four blessings would be : A). The blessing of strength was H-Pewter, which steals feruchemical physical powers. B). The blessing of awareness was H-Brass, which steals feruchemical cognitive powers . C). The blessing of presence was H-gold , which steals feruchemical hybrid powers D). The blessing of stability was H-aluminium , which steals all powers. Points in favor of my theory : 1). Hemalurgic copper , iron , zinc and tin steal human charecteristics. Normal humans. Not metalborn. Tlr didn't really care much about skaa and used them to make spikes indiscriminately for creating koloss. Why then limit the number of Kandra per generation to a hundred ? More Kandra meant more loyal subjects and spies and better atium Management and conservation. 2). Feruchemists on the other hand were rare , rarer than allomancers. Hence it would make sense why so few spikes were available to the kandra. 3).If the Kandra were rebellious , wouldn't they just steal spikes from like the treasury or from the koloss or by killing or mercykilling humans ,( I mean hey there were lots of impoverished or crippled skaa who would have been almost dead due to starvation , the mistsnapping , war , gang violence or tlr's general tyranny , who could euthanized as an act of Mercy during era 1 . And even during era 2 ) and make more Kandra ? I mean , that seems like a serious lapse in security by tlr. 4). Why are Kandra with the blessing of stability so rare ? I mean , zinc spikes should be as common as iron. Wouldn't it make more sense if this blessing was due to aluminum , a rare metal which might have been experimentally used a few times and then abandoned , due to lack of the resource. 5). I think , that aluminum is perhaps the most stable and inert of all the metals. Something that is immune to all ( ?? ) forms of investiture. Wouldn't it make sense that this would grant the blessing of stability which supposedly makes a Kandra less susceptible to external control. 6). Marasi notes that Ru Luur's spike was probably pewter. 7). In many ways it seems Kandra are superior to humans . They are usually peaceful , great at defense , functionally immortal , can change morphology to suit thier professions ( Spoiler for WoR ) Indeed , if it weren't for the mind control. ( spoiler for oathbringer ) It seems callous of Rashek to ignore this possiblity. With allomancy becoming weaker with every generation , knowledge of mind control and duralumin being suppressed and tlr himself running out of both sanity and his atium compounding efficiency , it might have been possible for Kandra to rise in rebellion. Even assassinate tlr and the Inquisitors themselves. Especially , if Paalm revealed how easy it was to infiltrate the ranks of the Inquisitors. Marsh did the same thing too remember. Several of the younger generations clamored for change and the kandra themselves hated being sequestered in some dank caves. Points against my theory : 1). Perhaps tlr was afraid of Kandra overrunning humans . Or didn't wanna overcrowd them in the pits and hence limited the number of new ones per generation . 2). Even if the Kandra were rebellious , it should have been easy for tlr , the Inquisitors , mistborn or soother mobs to get them under control. But then again , perhaps they might have removed one spike in order to remain immune to mind control , but it would have been harrowing for the kandra. 3). There seems to be WoBs stating that it was the normal power stealing H-spikes , ie, zinc ,tin,etc ,that were the blessings. This is , if true ,actually the most damning piece of evidence against my theory. 4). Then there's the possibility that the kandra were never a security risk. I mean even 3 centuries after the catacendre , most Kandra are peaceful and Van Dell just simply hates violence. It seems only the third generation and a few like MeLaan are the exceptions. They might actually hate themselves for being hemalurgic creations, but still if all one needs is a iron spike , then couldn't they mercykill some humans and create young ones or scrounge some from s dead or dying koloss ? Potential possiblities if my theory is true : 1). Sazed is afraid of the kandra. Hence he has had the mistwraiths eradicated , resusticated into humans or atleast removed from thier sentient brethren. Whether the kandra like this or not is impossible to foresee. 2). On one hand , the kandra seem to be peaceful creatures who willingly choose suicide even tho they are immortal. 3). On the other hand , the kandra have had centuries of practice acting and hiding thier true feelings. Then there was the dream / religious prophecy Ten Soon told Vin about Kandra ruling Scadrial once all the humans were dead. Paalm's anger at Sazed might have been atleast partially due to Sazed's oppression of the kandra. In some ways , Sazed's treatment of the kandra is worse than tlr's. 4). Perhaps some Kandra are truly loyal to Sazed , but as we saw in HoA , not all Kandra have the same view. So perhaps it's possible that some factions among the kandra including the world Hoppers?? are planning to oust him and gain control of Scadrial. Perhaps that's how Paalm first came in contact with Trell . Perhaps the ' faceless immortals ' Trell has , according to Edwarn ladrian are actually Kandra world Hoppers who defected to Trell or odium or whoever else , in order to gain greater autonomy for the kandra . 5). Finally we see Paalm using metalborn abilities and a statement saying that she had infiltrated Inquisitors. I really doubt you can infiltrate the ministry of Inquisition without displaying metalborn abilities. So is Sazed lying ? Tlr had reason to contain such knowledge from the kandra but does Sazed have similar reasons ? Also perhaps the spike which grants metalborn abilities might be aluminium . I mean if H-aluminum steals all powers then could it be possible that as a blessing it could grant all powers or well one power each. Perhaps this is also the reason the kandra themselves are oblivious of this knowledge since aluminum is super rare and aluminum spikes even more so. Yep , no proof for this. Just tinfoil. And Wax's observation of Paalm's spike seems to refute this reasoning. But then again Wax was like totally depressed at the time and wasn't able to run tests on it and the kandra removed it soon enough. Maybe Paalm just mixed in something else in the spike to change it's colouring , in order to fool ppl.

Walker calmy stood at his side of the arena. He was ready for a fair duel, without fades, or wingless larkin. He spun his katanas in a circle. He would have to wait though. Still, target practice is always fun. Welcome! This is the contest of Champions, Walker vs. Lusk! @Ookla the Guacless is Lusk, I am Walker and @Ookla the Ookla is mod. Here are the combatants. Let the games begin!!!

Here at Kane's, we sell all sorts of canes! Dueling canes, walking canes, gun canes! Come get your canes! 2 for 1 deal!