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While rereading chapter 5 of Words of Radiance, I noticed this: In The Way of Kings, there is a line of dialog from Elhokar where he mentions seeing things in mirrors, which we, the audience, know as Cryptics. It is super exciting to see this early foreshadowing of him becoming a Lightweaver. I love this line from Words of Radiance even more though. It evokes Pinocchio and his penchant for lying while also referencing the Lightweaver ability to alter one's appearance, as we will see Shallan do later in this book. This is the kind of thing I never would have noticed on a first reading, and I absolutely love it!

The epic fantasy genre is still relatively young, at least compared to other literary genres. The foundational work of creating an entirely new category of literature, one defined by the creation of an entirely new fictional world where the story takes place, is attributed to J.R.R. Tolkien. Everything Tolkien had done have become standard fantasy tropes: dark lords, medieval settings, elves and dwarves. Of interest here is the medieval settings part, which defines so much of the fantasy genre: fantasy world settings are mostly based on Europe, around the medieval time period in thought and technology and the nobility. I'm not referring to the quality here, which is it's own trope, but the idea related to class & bloodline & the divine right of kings. Brandon Sanderson is Mormon, so the portrayal of religion in his works is something that has been discussed a lot. You can find answers to most questions you might want to ask him regarding this on his site itself and there's plenty of discussion here on the forums, on reddit, etc. The trope of nobles and commoners in his works, however, is something that is not discussed enough in my opinion, and when it is, it's usually mentioned as a throw-away comment: "yes, we get it, Brandon, not all nobles (are bad)" This trope has evolved over time from its origin, the divine right of kings. In the Lord of the Rings the only difference between the line of Kings and the line of Stewards is their pedigree. Some people are apparently inherently superior and thus have the right to rule over the rest of them. Let's not get into the other critiques of LoTR like race or apologetics (I suggest looking into CS Lewis for more on this). Denethor was a bad ruler not just because he was a bad ruler but because he wasn't the rightful ruler. Aragorn comes and he's the rightful heir and everything's chill now. The themes are still kinda there in Sanderson's works too, the trope has been transformed but not truly subverted. In Mistborn era 1, book 2, Elend institutes a constitutional monarchy which is still very skewed with only 1/3 of the representatives being skaa. This assembly then boots him out, rightfully through Elend's own laws but Vin goes on a rampage of murdering and/or forcing his competitors to submit to his rule. In book 3, he decides that the time for debates and legislatures is later somewhere in the indeterminate future when the crisis is over. I do understand what the stakes were that motivated him to do the things he did. I'm simply pointing out a plot point. In era 2 of Mistborn, the legislative branch is divided into two halves: half elected and half aristocrats. The main protagonist is one of the aristocrats and one of the overarching character arcs for him was about accepting the responsibility of being an aristocrat. There are forces from outside of Scadrial who are involved in trying to topple this system. In Warbreaker, the God-King of Hallandren, Susebron was a figurehead ruler with the power being concentrated in the Court of Gods. The other main characters all belong to the ruling classes as well: two princesses, one of them also the queen, a member of the Court of Gods, and an enigmatic former ruler. The antagonists wanted to overthrow the system but are thwarted at the end by Susebron who comes into his powers after having been educated by the princess-queen and given back his tongue by magic. Hallandren's future looks just a bit brighter with its rightful ruler in power. In The Stormlight Archives much of the story revolves around the Kholin family, who reunified the broken kingdom of Alethkar. The idea of fighting against the Lighteyes does exist but that stuff is less important than unifying under them to face a greater threat. Also, Lighteyes are mostly descended from the ancient Knights Radiant whose eyes glowed the colour of their Order, that's where both the colour and the notion of superiority came from. In Elantris, the kingdom of Arelon moves on from plutocracy to monarchy, but we shouldn't worry because Raoden is pretty chill. ~spoilers for Aether of Night~ I'm not saying that these issues might not get resolved in future sequels. The Mistborn era 2 broadsheets seem to be hinting at civil unrest and discontent. And if @asmodeus's theory* is right, it might become a major plot point in eras 3 & 4 Stormlight might not just be about the fight against Odium but a fight against hatred. And again, I'm aware of the plot, circumstances and characteristics behind these noble characters. I'm just pointing out that these were actual plot points in the stories. Brandon has broken quite a few tropes in his prolific career but for now at least, it seems, that this is the trope that would not break *asmodeus' theory: Also, go read Powder Mage you guys! Edit: There is a subversion of this trope in Sanderson's work: White Sand. Making the Diem less dictatorial and more accountable is one of the most integral parts of the plot.

I don't think I'm the only person that, when I hear songs, there are songs that remind me of characters from books and films When it comes to Stormlight, or the cosmere in general, I don't usually find this happening, but it might just be the music I listen to doesn't match the characters. Anyway, when I was listening to a certain song, it really stood out to me that the character it fits is Elhokar, one of my personal favourite characters, especially throughout Oathbringer. The song in question is Bad Liar, by Imagine Dragons. It's because of his struggles and how he started to overcome them. Anyway, I made this so I could see if anyone agreed with me, and to see if anyone had any other suggestions for characters Thanks for reading!

Okay so I presented this idea to our facebook group and actually got a decent bit of pushback on it so I wanted to see what the Shard thought of it. Also, this thread will likely get pretty Cosmere spoiler-y so if you haven't read much other than Stormlight, you may get spoiled so tread at your own pace (Ironic as I haven't read Mistborn Era 2 yet) So, Wit totally bonded that Cryptic that Elhokar left, right? Okay, so now that we cleared that up: we know Hoid has the ability to just happen to be in the right place at the right time, but I had the inkling suspicion that Hoid was very interested in the abilities of Lightweavers (considering he already has a Yolish form of the magic) and that he might have been helping sort of "groom" proto-Lightweavers for a while now on Roshar so that he could get his hands on the magic system (something he has been doing throughout the Cosmere). So hear me out, Hoid was aware of Shallan's speaking of the Immortal Words/First Ideal when he confronted her during her flashback sequence and even used emotional Allomancy on her during the confrontation. He also served as King's Wit for Elhokar, whom was also a proto-Lightweaver. While Hoid has had a hand in the lives of the other MC Radiants, it seems as though he was more focused on the ones that were on the brink of becoming Lightweavers. I'm thinking that Hoid might have been grooming these Lightweavers so that when one of them eventually got killed (like a super young girl and a son of an assassinated king), he would pick up the spren. The Order is perfect for Hoid, he even says that he has many truths that he can tell the Cryptic. He has made it very clear when he spoke to Dalinar in WoR (I think) that he will watch Roshar burn if that's what it takes to get what he wants. He may not necessarily want that to happen because seems pretty apparent from his letters in each books' Part Two epigraphs that he wants to stop Odium and is begging for help from outside forces. But I also could see Hoid lurking for a Lightweaver to get killed and to try and salvage the spren considering that obtaining Surgebinding is a MUCH more complex task than eating a bead or obtaining someone's Breath. I could very well be wrong with this theory but I think it is neat regardless, but what do all of you think?

I got the impression (unless I read it somewhere and forgot) that Elhokar wanted to lead the raid on Kholinar because he expected to die, but he wanted to bring Kaladin because he thought he would make sure it would succeed. Maybe he intended to go out with honor or glory, or maybe he just wanted to get himself out of the way. Or maybe he really did want to be responsible for freeing his city, and wanted to have a hand in it. Thoughts?

K so hopefully nobody else has talked about this, (I'm not about to go looking through all of the posts about Elhokar in OB), because I don't want to look stupid. Anyways, I read the Stormlight Archive for the first time this last summer, and after reading all of Brandon's cosmere works, (+Skyward, Rithmatist, etc.), I decided to re-read Stormlight to better participate on here. While reading today, I found this, said by Elhokar... That description sounds an awful lot like pattern when Shallan first sees him in her drawings...If I'm right it means even before Elhokar starting to speak the oaths in OB, (even before any stuff with Wit or whatever that was I don't remember), we had foreshadowing/evidence in PART 4 of WoK, that Elhokar could become a Lightweaver. I really hope no one else has found this and I'm not waaaaaaaay late.

I just finished Oathbringer, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't yet found a thread to discuss this in. I loved/hated the scene in Oathbringer at the palace where Kaladin is watching all those he loves fight each other and, in the process, Elhokar is killed. But, right before he is, he begins to swear the first Ideal of the Knights Radiant and begins to be filled with Stormlight. Which order do you believe he'd have become? I've wondered if he was on his way to developing into a Dustbringer or a Willshaper. Obviously, we didn't get to see much of his progression in his order. But what do you think?

Because this is the closest I'll ever get to skill at art, I present to you good people of the shard... Stormlight Archive, as told by legos! (only characters right now, I may do some other things in the future... In order: Szeth - (assassin in white), Blackthorn, Eshonai, Elhokar, Sadeas - (grandbow), Shallan, Kaladin - (Radiant), Renarin - (bonding a Blade), Renarin - (Radiant). I just realized these belong in a gallery, all my new ones will be there

The lives of Kaladin, Moash, and Elhokar were placed on a collision course for tragedy after The Roshone Affair. In this event we infer that Moash's silversmith grandparents were imprisoned, and later died in prison, based on the greed of Roshone who used his influence over King Elhokar (in charge of Kholinar due to the absence of his father and Dalinar) to carry out the plot. When Dalinar was alerted to the disaster details were suppressed and Roshone was exiled. This single critical event would have a domino effect resulting in: the death of Moash's family and embittering of Moash the exile of Roshone to Hearthstone and the eventual levying into the army and death of Tien (destroying Kaladin's "innocence") Kaladin and Moash uniting in a temporary treasonous plot against Elhokar Kaladin temporarily losing his bond with Syl and nearly turning against Dalinar Kaladin and Moash experiencing a falling out, resulting in Moash being exiled from Bridge 4, and ultimately joining The Singers The death of Elhokar at Moash's hands. Many classic literary tragedies tend to have a critical miscommunication or misunderstanding at their root. There is also often a single antagonistic character whose manipulative or evil actions result in the downfall of others. I believe Queen Aesudan, not King Elhokar, was ultimately responsible for the death of Moash's family. Elhokar however, displaying his usual characteristics of loving and protective husband, along with his propensity to trust the wrong people, chose to assume responsibility for his wife's actions. This sets the perfect recipe for a tragedy wherein Kaladin and Moash are set on a path of vengeance based on the incomplete assumption that Elhokar was entirely responsible for the tragedies in their life. Moash ends up killing a person who did not bear true responsibility for his plight, and indeed Moash is now serving one who did bear responsibility for the evils done to him (Queen Aesudan, likely already acting under the influence of Odium+Unmade). I can't really prove this was likely the case, but it is a fun thought to consider, and it would connect a lot of clues and offer an important twist on the story. A couple possible clues: 1 - Approximate Time of the Roshone Affair This quote places the time of the Roshone Affair pretty accurately. It occurs in the brief interval where the Listeners had been discovered and King Gavilar had developed an interest in them, but before Gavilar had been assassinated. Perhaps one year or less before the assassination? Dalinar was likely in an alcoholic bender at this time instead of watching over and instructing Elhokar, another tragic "what if?" element to the event. The second half of this quote is interesting because at first glance the "someone he trusted" is heavily implied to be Roshone. It is worded just loosely enough though that Dalinar could be referring to a third party. 2 - If Aesudan was suspected of being involved in this affair, it explains certain reactions by Dalinar and Jasnah. We are never given a specific reason why Jasnah was arranging for an assassination of Queen Aesudan via Liss, nor why she eventually retreats from her request opting for further observation. If Jasnah highly suspected that Aesudan bore responsibility for the Roshone Affair (but wasn't completely certain due to Elhokar covering for her), that may be enough to make Jasnah highly consider an assassination, but then decide it needed further observation. We learn later that Jasnah considers the stability of her family's rule to be of critical importance, thus her recognizing that Aesudan is both a terrible ruler/person and also has the blind loyalty of Elhokar would establish Aesudan as a clear risk to the family's ability to maintain power and not coming into internal conflict with one another. We also are given heavy hints early on that Dalinar does not trust Aesudan. Mraize's letter indicates that Dalinar's trusted soldier Bordin was purposefully left behind in Kholinar to keep an eye on the Queen (Bordin later leaves the city to deliver Taln and the shardblade to Dalinar). Dalinar also seems distressed that Navani has left Kholinar, hoping that she would provide leadership advice to Aesudan. Navani declares however that the Queen is politically competent (and reading between the lines, likely ignores Navani's advice entirely). We later learn that Aesudan is a cruel and petty ruler who has been under the influence of Odium's Unmade for an indeterminate period of time. 3 - Characters of Elhokar and Roshone What was done to Moash's grandparents was monstrous, but in hindsight it doesn't seem to match the characteristics of either Elhokar or Roshone, the two characters we are told are responsible. Elhokar was a pretty terrible ruler for much of the time we are with him, he trusts the wrong people, and occasionally displays a temper. Even so, agreeing to throw some elderly artisans in the palace dungeons merely to financially benefit an ally seems much more cold-hearted than the Elhokar we know. If however Aesudan was responsible for throwing some inconvenient darkeyes in dungeon, it is fitting with Elhokar's character that he would try to protect her and refuse to think ill about her. Roshone is another character who while greedy, underhanded, and unpleasant doesn't seem to sink to the level of murderous to achieve his goals. Indeed in the Hearthstone flashbacks Roshone seem to rely on bullying and peer pressure to try to get back Lirin's stolen spheres, rather than directly threatening his family or imprisoning them. Lirin notes that he is of high enough Nahn to have rights against unlawful imprisonment by Roshone, but the events of the Roshone Affair clearly demonstrate a flaw with that line of thinking. The fact that Lirin and Hesina seem to have grown accepting of Roshone's presence by the events of Oathbringer may indicate that Roshone isn't as malicious as has been suggested. Perhaps Roshone originally proposed an underhanded scheme to pressure Moash's parents into joining his monopoly, but it was Aesudan who chose to escalate matters into imprisoning them? 4 - Elhokar's Cryptic Elhokar had attracted the attention of a Cryptic (liespren) and was on the path to becoming a Lightweaver before his tragic end. We'll never know for certain what specific lies Elhokar had been telling himself that attracted a Cryptic ("I am a good and effective King" seems one painful possibility). His uncompromising belief that his wife was a good person and just ruler seems very likely to have been one of them though. During the infiltration of Kholinar when he otherwise displayed traits of a good leader he repeatedly refused to consider the possibility that Aesudan was responsible for the situation in the city. Admitting this would likely have been one of his Truths for a Lightbringer oath. Thus completes the tragedy of Elhokar, his greatest flaw and the seed of his downfall was loving and trusting his wife too much. 5 - Random Quote That Probably Means Nothing Behold the offhand reference to a card game that Lirin makes when Roshone first arrives at Hearthstone: "The tower" is commonly used as a symbol of House Kholin, it and a crown are the chapter header image for Dalinar. Mentioning the Queen in contrast to the tower here would be a fantastic wink from Brandon if did turn out that the Queen (Aesudan), not the Tower (Elhokar) was responsible for the Roshone affair and its fallout. Or it might mean nothing at all

Oathbringer is an amazing book and i gobbled it up in 3 days, and are now reading it through again in a more normal pace to savor it. But one thing is bugging me when it comes to some caracters reactions: why is it that none of the Kholins seem woried over Gavinor!? The spanreeds Kholinar goes quiet after scary reports of riots and utter chaos, but all that is mentioned is the worry of the city at large and the strategic advantage of the oathgate (and sometimes the queen)... A normal reaction, in a otherwise loving family, should be to be woried sick over the unprotected child and the heir stuck in this sinkhole. Ehlokar seems somewhat woried about his family, but not as woried as a father and husband should be. Imagine not knowing if your wife and son is safe or not. Are they prisoners? Are they hurt? Are they even alive!? I whould be going crazy! Neather Navani, Jasnah or the other Kholins seems very bothered by this. Since Sanderson's caracters often are filled with doubt and wory this seems like a huge oversite. Thoughts? (English is not my first language)

are sprens now.

I've searched through the forum and haven't found any threads specifically discussing this, which is a little surprising. If such a thread exists and I missed it, I apologize. Now on to the topic. What's the deal with Aesudan Kholin, Elhokar's wife? In the WOR prologue, we learn that Jasnah was contemplating having Aesudan assassinated by Liss before changing her mind and having her merely spy on the queen for the time being. But why? what's so special about Aesudan? Who is she? What sort of threat does Jasnah believe her to pose to her family that she is willing to go as far as have her assassinated? Sure Aesudan, as shown in Lhan's interlude chapter in WOR, is definitely not a really good person nor a good ruler, throwing lavish parties and being excessive, wasteful and out of touch with and uncaring of the common people. All of this make her a terrible person but it's not enough to justify Jasnah's actions against her. Like Jasnah had to have been convinced that Aesudan was serious bad news for her family to even contemplate going as far as an assassination attempt. Not to mention Jasnah had this planned while Gavilar was still alive, so Aesudan wasn;t even queen then. There's also the fact that Bordin, said to be one of Dalinar's most trusted servants, had been left behind in Alethkar to spy on Aesudan, or at least this is what Mraize claims. If that's true then does that mean Dalinar shares at least some of Jasnah's suspicions regarding the queen? I highly doubt he knows about Liss and Jasnah's almost assassination attempt against Aesudan since I'm sure he wouldn't have approved of it. But both Dalinar and Jasnah must now something about Aesudan that warrants having people spy on her. And how do the Ghostbloods know about, for that matter how much do they know? Is Aesudan somehow connected to them? Or maybe she's associated with the Diagram or some other secret organization since Roshar seems to be crawling with them. I think it's pretty obvious that there's more to her but what? There's something else mentioned in the Lhan interlued that might also be relevant somehow: Why is that? What has she done or things she's done that led her to believe the Almight might be displeased with her? I don't have any concrete theories about this yet myself, gotta do a little more investigation, dig a little deeper, look for more hints and foreshadowings and things like that if there are any in the relevant chapters before forming one. But I figured I start this discussion here to see what you guys think and if any of you have any theories/ speculations of your own or know of any WOBs regarding this because this is something that has been on my mind since I finished WOR.

In mistborn the mentally unstable have "cracks" allowing kelsier to hear him. Allomancers have to break to access their powers, and surge binders were all broken as said by syl. I was wondering if maybe since Elhokar is a little mentally unstable that he can almost see the cognitive realm. His paranoia that is obviously understandable and founded could be a symptom of his mental illness. Or is he possibly a Surge binder like shallan? He would have to be the same as shallan since cryptics seem to be the ones watching. They also vanish when kalladin is around as the king says to kalladin because his spen scares away the cryptics. Because we know the honor spren and cryptics hate each other.

So, how will this guy end up? Assassinated like his father? Dead in battle? Becoming a better king? Or something else. Share your thoughts!

The connection is fairly easy to make, once you think about it. Here are my reasons: #1: They are both paranoid. #2: They are both poor rulers. #3: Both books are in the cosmere. #4: You have yet to see both of them at the same time. Once you have the facts, the conclusion is easy to deduce: Elhokar, tired of people silently criticizing his rule, seeks out the Wit, who constantly slips away to some place where nobody can find him. He asks the Wit to take him to this place, and Hoid drops him off in the Elantris system. Confused, Elhokar does his best to fit in, renaming himself Iadon and becoming a merchant. When the Reod comes, he eagerly steps up to rule, convinced he'll do a better job this time than last time.

So, Elhokar talks about how "they watch him from mirrors" "symbols, twisted, inhuman" So he's seeing cryptics. This could mean several things: #1 Elhokar is becoming a Lightweaver. #2 His blade is the Lightweaver honor blade, which the Cryptics are interested in #3 other reason the cryptics are watching him/ability to see spren otherwise. #4 ….He is insane. Any thoughts?

Hello to all! It's my first post here, please be kind This piece is a rough faceshot sketch of Elhokar and the ten highprinces, drawn by pencil. (Full resolution: [x]) To know who is who, here is the key: (Full resolution: [x]) I did a keyword search for the exact description of each character, but still couldn't find useful information about Bethab and Thanadal, so I had to make some wild speculations. Actually I'm not so sure about the appearance and outfit design for all of them, any suggestions are welcomed =) (I did have a try, though )

I was just thinking: the Cryptics seem to be attracted to Shallan either because she was lying to Jasnah, or because she was keeping a terrible secret. Since it appears Elhokar is being followed by them as well, does he have a similar secret? Nothing we've read so far seems to dig that deeply into his character, but I think he's got something going on that we haven't noticed yet. Has anyone seen anything suspicious from him?

Spoilered for length. TL;DR version is that Dalinars biases are causing him to interpret the visions incorrectly, and this is making Bad Things happen. Also Alodin killing Sadeas was a really good idea, And Kaladins Wangst could have been avoided if he had gone in a slightly different direction. Here is an excerpt...

It seems that Roshar needs to be united in order to survive the impending Desolation. We currently have two separate individuals who are attempting to accomplish this task that we are aware of. Taravangian is the ruler of Kharbranth, a small city-state renowned for it's hospitals and the Palanaeum. He has thus far attempted to achieve the goal of unifying Roshar through assassination and through trying to interpret the future by listening to the death chants of innocent people he murders. To date he has eliminated close to twenty world leaders through assassination and murdered a large number of innocent civilians who were under his care. We have seen no indication that other plans are in motion to stabilize the nations affected as yet, though to be fair those plans have been eluded to. Taravangian appears to only be worried about eliminating any possible rival leaders thus far. Taravangian appears to be aware of the efforts of the second person attempting a unification at a smaller level and chose to order the assassination of Dalinar Kholin rather than make any effort to work with him. Dalinar Kholin is High Prince of War, uncle to King Elhokar of Alethkar. He is attempting to unify one of the most powerful nations on Roshar through politicking and an iron fist. He has prophetic dreams that appear to have been sent to him by a being he believes to be a god called Honor. Honor is dead and Dalinar is aware of this as well. Dalinar began his efforts to unite his fellow High Princes through political maneuvering and encouraging them to work together in concert against the current common foe of the Alethi people. This strategy failed dramatically at the plateau called The Tower when High Prince Sadeas deftly outmaneuvered Dalinar and stranded him along with his heir and a large portion of his men surrounded and cut off from retreat. It was only through the actions and rebellion of bridge four and it's leader Kaladin Stormblessed that Dalinar was capable of retreating and salvaging a quarter of the forces he had brought to battle. Having recognized the futility of trying to coerce his fellow High Princes to work together voluntarily, Dalinar has forcefully bent his nephew to his will with the goal of finally unifying his nation under the rule of the king. It has been postulated that the methods of these men are, for all intents and purposes, little different. That by using the war that Dalinar seeks to end as an excuse for unifying his people, Dalinar is no better than the man who murders the sickly and feeble in their beds and orders world leaders assassinated so he can unite the world under his own banner. I would postulate that the difference between these men is immense. That Dalinar seeks to unite his nation to enable its survival. He doesn't seek power for himself, but takes what power he needs to accomplish his goals. He wants to see his people become more than they are, and he wants this for his people. Taravangian on the other hand seeks to unite the world under his rule, for his own personal glory and to ensure his own survival. He has no compunction about murdering innocent people and removing any obstacle from his path. What do you think?

When Kaldin spoke the Words, "I will protect those who cannot protect themselves," we rose to our feet and roared with excitement! When Lift spoke "I will remember those who have been forgotten," we shed tears and begged for more! Speaking the Ideals of the Knights Radiant have become some of my favorite moments in modern literature. I can't wait to see more Ideals! And so, dear friends, this poll. Who do you think will get to have their shining moment next? And please, drop a post to let us know why you chose them, how it might happen, and what the words might be!

I hope that I'm not repeating a conjecture posted by another member, but I've long since had an idea regarding the broken gems in Elhokar's Shardplate after the greatshell hunt. Quote from TWoK: (Adolin PoV) There are a few points here I'd like to touch upon. One being that Adolin seems to see Dalinar or Dalinar's Shardplate glowing if only faintly. Another is that Dalinar tosses aside his Shardblade. What I posit here is that Dalinar, in an effort to protect Elhokar, invests Stormlight. Presumably from Elhokar's Shardplate's gemstones allowing him the additional strength required to catch the massive claw. This act being something that even other Shardbearers see as something a normal modern Shardbearer shouldn't be able to do. I feel that Brandon is also purposely drawing attention to the fact that Dalinar tosses his Shardblade away allowing him to invest when he otherwise may not have been able to. In short, I think the king's broken gemstones weren't the result of sabotage, but the result of Dalinar's pulling all of the Stormlight from them rapidly. I'd love to hear opinions on this ~Ink