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  1. Okay, so I was reading the theorizing in general cosmere about how in the Gavilar prologue the Stormfather felt very different. I saw a lot of people saying it’s Ishar, something I agree with. This is gonna move along a few lines related to that, but starting with the point that made me post it here: 1) that reminds me of how Zellion talked about how his adherence to his oaths kept his Torment at bay at least somewhat. We know all Heralds are crazy, and one of the counterpoints to the “StormFaker is Ishar” theory was: ‘he’s far too lucid to be Ishar.’ But we know some of the Heralds insanity is magical in nature, which sounds, to me, not unlike a Torment. We know vast amounts of investiture (like a Radiant sweating an oath) and oaths, help Ishar overcome his insanity, again something reminiscent of Zellion’s Torment. He can summon his blade immediately after being in the sun, and could get past his Torment while following the oaths. Brandon said Sunlit Man had SA5 spoilers. My pitch is: StormFaker was Ishar, he was potentially bonded to the Stormfather (who said he “has experience with” Ishar) and/or he used his pre existing Bondsmith powers to highjack Gavilar/the Storm father’s budding connection and manipulate Gavilar. (We see that Dalinar can pull people into visions, I’m absolutely sure Ishar can do the same lolol). He could do all of this because HE was a Bondsmith/had sworn Bondsmith oaths, which ended after Chana (probably) and Gavilar died and the Stormfather decided to sever their bond, leading to his descent into full, unmitigated insanity which coincidentally started almost immediately after those two events. He also goes to get his sword right after these events, presumably because he wants his powers back, having lost them with his lost bond to SF. 2) that theory still works without Ishar being bonded to the Stormfather, especially because that could be a leap. (I think that the Stormfather said there hadn’t been a Bondsmith in centuries.) The other part of it though, hinges on Ishar having a Torment. All the Heralds are nuts, but it seems to ME like he’s extra nuts. And something like the Oathpact seems like the type of thing that could be created with Dawnshard level power. And we know the Dawnshards were both on Ashyn and all over Roshar, as is Ishar. So the second part of the theory is: Ishar’s insanity is part of/worsened by his Torment. Either because he’s a Herald or he held a dawnshard or both, he has a Torment which he can only overcome while a) following Radiant Oaths or b) around someone ELSE following radiant oaths or maybe c) around a TON of Investiture but that seems less likely cuz he’s nuts right by a perpendicularity. 3) more evidence for Ishar/SF bond I think is how easily Ishar (almost) takes the bond from Dalinar. He seems to know the connection well, as with the connection to Odium. We know that he now curses the Stormfather and that the Stormfather can still see him, something I’d argue is because of their potentially stronger connection now. I think it explains why the Stormfather is so jaded when it comes to trusting Dalinar as well. He’s just had a bad experience. That was a lot, so thank you if you read it, but if not: TL;DR: Ishar is the StormFaker cuz he bonded with the Stormfather and manipulated Gavilar. He held a Dawnshard at one point and now has a Torment. The SF bond suppressed the effects of his Torment, but losing the bond caused him to go crazy(er) after the Stormfather ended their bond post-Gavilar/Chana death. Tear apart my theory, provide feedback, lmk what you think!!:)
  2. This maybe a dumb repetitive question but are dawnshards based on the idea of the four fundamental forces of nature - Gravitational force Electromagnetic force Strong nuclear force Weak nuclear force reading the description of darnshards by Niikli in the Rysn novella immediately send my mind to this. in our universe, it is said that there are four universal or fundamental forces in nature. Without these forces, all matter in the world will fall apart. Could the dawnshards be of a similar status in the cosmere?
  3. Are we sure all the Dawnshards have one word commands like CHANGE? It fits with the Shard intents also having a single name, but these are commands. Seems limiting if they are all one word. I'm looking for a classic Brandon trick of letting us assume a thing that is never stated. On a related but separate line of thought: Doesn't CHANGE seem the opposite of what Brandon is saying above? It is not specific or narrow at all. I'll add the caveat that he is talking off the cuff and he's only sort of answering the question from @Chaos about Dawnshards by giving a Warbreaker example, but he picked the same term Command for a reason they shouldn't mean vastly different things. Then again we've never seen one used. There may be more specifics involved when one wields a Dawnshard. The other thing with CHANGE is that when we try to guess the other commands we think of things like Connect or Form. Isn't connecting things inherently changing them? Almost everything falls under change except SURVIVE or similar command telling things not to change at all. Destruction is a change. Maybe CREATE, but investiture and matter can't be created or destroyed at a fundamental level. Create can only be altering existing things which is a change. I could see EXPERIENCE, FEEL or LIVE which could refer more intangible things like emotions. How about THINK? Adonalsium shouting "THINK, STUPID!" at a bunch of rocks . That's still a change though . Wait one is not like the others in some way. What if 3 of them are CHANGE because it is so broad you can do almost anything and only one of them is a different command? But why would Adonalsium create 3 of the same thing when there is only 1 of him? Maybe he kept losing them? The 4th one is FIND so he can find the three he lost, but then he lost that one too? Adonalsium had ADHD, confirmed. So do I and that's probably enough of me riffing with myself. Thanks for reading
  4. Did the Dawnshards determine the intent of the 16 Shards? I'll try to make this make sense, I'm bad at explaining things so it may be a little confusing at first. The 4 Dawnshards were used to shatter Adonalsium into 4 shards. Then 1 Dawnshard used on each of those 4 Shards, splintering them into 4 more, giving us the 16 Shards we have now. Would those 16 be the same if the Dawnshards were switched around? This is where it might get confusing. I'll just use 2 Shards and 2 Dawnshards for the example. Just using random Shards, let's say that DS1 used on Shard 1 splintered it into Ruin, Preservation, Dominion, and Devotion and DS2 splintered Shard 2 into Ambition, Autonomy, Invention, and Endowment. Now if you were to switch the Dawnshards to where DS2 splintered Shard 1 and DS1 splintered Shard 2, would the outcome be the same? So the questions: Were the shards made up of those Intents and separated with the Dawnshards, no matter which one was used on which? So no matter which of the Dawnshards used, those 2 Shards would always split into the same 4? Or if you used DS2 to splinter Shard 1, would it still be Ruin, Preservation, Dominion and Devotion, or would the Dawnshard "decide", for lack of a better word, and splinter it into Ambition, Autonomy, Invention and Endowment and vice versa with DS1 and Shard 2? (I can't think of the right words to explain this one so this may or may not make much sense) Or would the outcome be completely different? Kind of a combination of the two I guess? If you were to switch them like that, would they be the same or would the Command of a Dawnshard have different effects on the Shard based off of what Intents the Shard is made up of, giving us a whole different set of 16 Shards than we have now? (If that one makes any sense)
  5. Hello everyone! Short version: I made this table with checkboxes relating possible Downshards and Shards, I'd love it if you could check which ones you think could be related, to use as a starting point for a brainstorm. Thanks! Slightly longer version: So I've being working on a Dawnshards theory. Of course a big part of theorizing is now about: what the remaining 3 are what the "odd one out" would be, and how is it different how they relate to shards, if at all I've seen theories also including a different set of "properties", combined with the downshards to "categorize" all the shards, and the conversation often comes down to everyone having a slightly different spin on what the actual Downshards and correlations are. I think it would be very interesting to get a clearer feel for how you guys would connect Shards with possible downshards, to have a stronger base to brainstorm over. So I made a very simple survey with google forms. LINK It's a table where, for every shard, you can check all the possibile Dawnshards\attributes\ideas you feel could be related to it. To do this I put together my own guesses and many of the ones I could find browsing around as options. If you'd like to give your input but don't feel like spending more than a minute on this, feel free to just check the marks on the Shards you feel more confident about (say do Honor, ignore Mercy), but any input will be much appreciated. Once I have this, I'll look at correlations and see if any new idea pops up ^^ I'll be sharing the results anyways (in about a week time I think) in case they could be useful for any future theory on the topic. Thank you!
  6. Hi, so, I have little to back this theory up aside from the fact that Shards can Splinter, and that the vessels used Dawnshards to kill Adonalsium. As well as this simple RAFO'd WoB that doesn't deny the plausibility: Here's my gripe with the idea that there are only four Dawnshards, if we assume that there cannot be multiple of the same Dawnshard. I propose that Dawnshards could be split up, you know? Similar to how Shards themselves can break apart into fragments. I think that of the original vessels, each one had to have held one of these Dawnsplinters. So there are at least sixteen Dawnsplinters that may have been consumed in order for the pieces of Adonalsium to take them on. So, yes, there are four Dawnshards and each have a specific command, but there are sixteen Splinters at the least that carry those same commands. As well, I see a lot of people put the shards into neat little tables based on Dawnshards, but that feels reductive. Every Shard, in a way, uses various Command to fulfill their Intent. They won't fit into these categorizations very well. Not to say that the Shard received wasn't influenced by the Dawnshard you were holding at the time! Because what could, in fact, be true is that there may have NOT been any balance in the Shattering-- there weren't four Dawnsplinters per Dawnshard to make the Shattering a neat, balanced 16 different parts of Adonalsium. Hence why we have some overlap in Intents of Shards, like Ruin and Odium. I think Dawnsplinters were what was killing Yolen-- Hoid refers to too many people getting these unrestrained powers in Rhythm of War. Investiture given to Dawnsplinters is what the Sleepless do not want, naturally. I think that it is basically like how metals work on Scadrial-- the Dawnsplinter you have inside of you is a key for the magic, and when you give it Investiture and have an Intent for what the Dawnshard will do, it will perform that Command, but guided by your Intent. Like if you Intend to kill someone and activate the Change Dawnshard, it will perform an act of Change to kill that person. Hence why I think it is so dangerous-- it may not be nuanced enough, and the amount of Investiture you give it changes how powerful the effect is. In a way, all magical effects are "Dawnshards" -- at least, Commands-- or also better seen as Spells, each one with more nuance than a simple Dawnshard. But that's pure speculation. Going back to overlap in Shards, I can't really tell you all of the Dawnshards and the Ideal sixteen Shards. I have my own theories on what the four Dawnshards are, though, and they're a bit silly and based on, of course, speculation. But that's really all. It's really more of a belief than a theory, I suppose. A man can hope. TL;DR: Splinters of Dawnshards used. That means there may be many people out there today who are Dawnshards... or Dawnsplinters.
  7. So we now know the names/Intents of 14 Shards, and have hints that the 15th is something like "Wisdom". Which leaves us with only one total unknown. The mural in Dawnshard suggests the 16 Shards divide into four groups of four, each connected to one of the four Dawnshards. And each Dawnshard seems to be some kind of fundamental Command or Intent. One is "Change"; and the epigraph about the Dawnshard known to bind all creatures voidish or mortal suggests that another is "Bind" or an equivalent. Cultivation and Ruin are clearly "Change" associated. Honor, Devotion, and Dominion would be "Bind" associated. Preservation and Autonomy suggest that one of the others would be something like "Be" or "Be Yourself" or "Remain". I would suggest something like this scheme: Change Cultivation - Ruin (controlled growth vs entropic decay) Odium - Endowment (hatred and division and turning others against each other vs. giving freely of oneself, "without strings" - both are kind of "unbinding" but in very different ways) Be Preservation - Autonomy Mercy - Ambition (opposed in a sense, allowing others to heal and flourish vs becoming the most important thing in the universe) Bind Honor - Valor (oaths and bonds, putting yourself in harm's way to protect others) Devotion - Dominion Think Whimsy - Invention Wisdom - Judgment (understanding what is / making decisions and classifying the universe*) Judgment as the last Shard, and my interpretation of Valor's intent**, are probably the most likely to be wrong (well, I really doubt "Think" is the correct name for the fourth Dawnshard, but the concept might be valid). *I don't necessarily mean "Judgment" as just being guilty vs innocent in a "Skybreaker" sense, but also about analysis, classifying things, and understanding them individually rather than as a whole (Wisdom) **Valor could just be courage for its own sake, not necessarily have a positive connotation
  8. Is it possible for a dawnshard to be involved with Nightblood's creation? Could Shashara held a Dawnshard to help her visualize the creation? We see Vivenna's sword and it seems to do the same color draining thing, but not leaking investiture or whatever. Is that due to a different command or the lack of a dawnshard involvement? But while Nightblood is incredibly powerful, at the same time he doesn't seem like Dawnshard powerful.
  9. Is there any chance Rysn ever will be able to use the Dawnshard? Apologies if Dawnshard answered this question. I don’t have that novella, and it’s been a while since I’ve read it.
  10. Ok so! I just got off the phone, and here's what we talked about. Theory 1: The definition of Shattered is "(of something abstract) damaged or destroyed." Adonalsium is most definitely an abstract being. Something damaged/destroyed can be fixed, to a certain degree. The main point of this theory is that if someone could combine the 16 Shards, and the 4 Dawnshards, that massive coalescing of power would combine into a sentient being. A New Adonalsium. Theory 2 (Disproven): Only exact opposite shards can Splinter each other. Disproven because Odium Splintered Honor, Devotion, and Dominion. (Sorry if I missed any) Theory 3: As shown in the Dawnshard novella, Adonalsium is portrayed in the mosaic as a sun split into 4 chunks (Dawnshards) and those chunks were also split 4 ways (Shards). As such, all Shards are just manifestations of either one Dawnshard, or a combo of 2. Theory 4: Wit (Hoid, Cephandrius) is gathering parts of different Shard's magic systems to combine it all into New Adonalsium, as discussed in theory 3. Theory 5: Opposite shards (Preservation, Ruin) are needed to actually create life. The Singers were already there when Honor and Cultivation arrived, as were the humans on Ashyn when Odium got there. But Preservation and Ruin worked together to make Scadrial and its life forms. Theory 6: As discussed in the Dawnshard novella, Rysn feels from the mosaic different feelings. I forget what they were, and I don't know where to go to find the quote. If someone could do that, and post is as a reply, that'd be great. Back to the point, these feelings are interpreted as what Adonalsium felt during the shattering. And, as Adonalsium died, we theorized that parts of his being also became ingrained on the Commands used to kill him. The Dawnshards themselves. Thoughts on it all? Seriously, give me some thoughts. Please. I had way too much fun talking about this, I need more interaction based on these theories.
  11. So we know there are Four Dawnshards and 16 Shards, and the Akinah Mural implied they could be seperated into four groups of four. And we do know that the Shards were to some degree effected by the Dawnshards (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/456/#e14677) We know one of the Dawnshards is Change, this can be connected to Ruin and Cultivation, Endowment, possibly Invention If another is the opposite of this, like how Allomantic Metals have opposites in a sense, we can assume Stasis. Which would connect to Preservation, possibly Honor, Change: Ruin: Is inevitable change and decay, entropy Cultivation: Lets people grow and advance Endowment: Resurrects and Gifts people to let them grow and change the future Invention: "the action of inventing something, typically a process or device." or "Creative Ability", these both fit very well with the idea of change and development Stasis: Preservation: Actively works to keep things in stasis and prevent change Honor: Is all about oaths and laws and keeping to them Dominion: Is possibly about keeping authority and having others function according to law This is all that I can think up for this so far, though Autonomy, Odium, Ambition, and Whimsy seem to possibly share traits of living for oneself and ones passions and desires.
  12. Closing up the bar on my phone and this thought occurred to me: Hoid, in the epigraphs of Stormlight, asks Frost how he’s enjoying his new found immortality. This is odd because we know from wobs that dragons, by nature, are functionally immortal. I propose that Frost was in possession of the Dawnshard opposite from Hoid’s. Perhaps even the Change Dawnshard, which was somehow counteracting his natural immortality. So he gives up said Dawnshard which causes Hoid to congratulate him on no longer aging. This is also kinda backed up by the fact that the only people who were involved with the shattering that we are aware of became Dawnshards or Shards and we know Frost was involved. And we know that whatever Dawnshard Hoid had made him immortal amongst other things. And if it was Change it fits the timeline relatively well because we know it came to Roshar within Horneater memory.
  13. Okay so this theory is going to be half formed and probably not great but a lightbulb went off in my head while re-reading Mistborn. Burning atium grants future sight, to a degree, feruchemists can store youthfulness, and and an atium spike can steal any ability. It makes sense that in Ruin's own magic system it could steal any ability, making it the most powerful metal out of his system because it decays the source of the power, but the other two are temporal in nature. We also know that Cultivation and Endowment are very skilled in future sight while other shards struggle with this. What I'm thinking is that Shards from the change quadrant of the Dawnshard chart will have more powerful temporal abilities, this being due to the fact that the nature of their power is to change things and so they can read the effects of changes much more easily. I am pretty steadily convinced that invention will also be one of the Change Shards so in theory that takes care of all four from that quadrant. If I'm right about this, the other three quadrants relating to the nature of the shards abilities would grant four Shards a specific strength in their given attribute rather than simply having power related to that attribute. We know from a word-of-Brandon that one of the Dawnshards is unique while the other three have a much closer relation so I'm asking in this post if anyone has ideas for what the other Dawnshards might be based on the powers granted by certain shards. I know this is kind of a long shot because Odium is also particularly skilled in future sight and Preservation showed at least proficiency in this area as well, but I feel at this point any information we can base theories on is worth looking at for the sake of hopefully predicting a Dawnshard or two before the next Stormlight book comes out 3 years from now
  14. This has been discussed before, but as far as I know it was never updated to include the new Shards from RoW. The basic premise, obviously, is that the Dawnshards would correspond to the cards colors in Magic: The Gathering. The WoB below provides some crucial information here: There are two major issues that need to be solved, though: There are 5 card colors and 4 Dawnshards. I believe that's not really a problem, as the Change Dawnshard covers two colors: green and blue Devotion and Dominion have two colors, quite possibly because Elantris was written before Cosmere fully took shape. I think, however, that, when other Shards are taken into consideration, they can be reasonably placed within red and white colors, respectively All the colors description below were copied from here. Also, as I've realized while writing this down, Dawnshards and Awakening work in a kind of similar way, and Awakening uses colors White Shards (Dawnshard of Order/Unity/Morality?) White color description: Shards: Honor, Preservation, Dominion, the 16th Unknown Shard They seem exceptionally important for the Cosmere as a whole, as all core worlds (Roshar, Scadrial, Sel) have at least one Shard from this category. This is possibly the Dawnshard from the Poem of Ista, as well as Hoid's Dawnshard, based on his old quasi-Stoneward oath and inability to hurt people. Black Shards (Dawnshard of Individuality/Destruction?) Black color description: Shards: Ambition, Ruin, Whimsy, Autonomy (the "main" Shard, Avatars can probably have different colors) Red Shards (Dawnshard of Emotion?) Red color description: Shards: Odium, Devotion, Valor, Mercy Green & blue Shards (Dawnshard of Change) Green color description: Blue color description: Shards: Cultivation & Endowment (green), Invention and (non-canonical yet) Wisdom / Prudence (blue) The Change Dawnshard seems to cover both natural growth and intentional human activity, making it compatible with both green and blue colors
  15. Okay so here’s my Dawnshard theory which I’ve spent way too much time trying piece together. By the way I hope it’s okay to make a new post as I have seen a couple going around but with different interpretations than my own... I’ve had a lot of different ideas but this is the first one that I’ve come up with that has all four that would work together with the Shards that we know. I’ve tried to work this out based on a few key bits of information: Hoid held a Dawnshard which is the reason he cannot physically harm others or even eat meat. (Perhaps also the reason he is immortal). The Dawnshards were used to shatter Adonalsium, and were used in the destruction of Ashyn. I can’t remember if this is confirmed or only a theory, but they perhaps also caused the shattering of the Shattered Plains. So shattering is a recurring thing... The Dawnshards are the Commands used by Adonalsium to create all things - therefore I feel they need to apply to energy and matter, as well as to life. So far many theories are more applicable to life whereas Change is something much more fundamental which can be applied to energy (eg. change from light to heat, kinetic to gravitational, etc), matter (eg. from one form to another, from something to nothing, etc) and life (people change, ideas change, singers change form, etc). CHANGE Cultivation Whimsy Ruin Endowment Based on the fundamental law of conservation that energy is neither created nor destroyed, only transformed. This is the case for investiture in the Cosmere too. (From what I understand, Atium was not destroyed because it will eventually re-emerge - which also fits with the final Dawnshard I’ve theorised. Light and anti light seem to function like matter and anti matter in that the two can destroy one another but leave behind energy - eg. an explosion - another example of change, and why Ruin fits so perfectly here). I think these Shards would fit if we think of change as being cultivated or random, destructive or constructive. CONSERVE/ REMAIN Preservation Dominion Autonomy ? *Not to be confused with the Dawnshard of jam making... This one is linked to the above law of conservation of energy (and mass), and that if a system is isolated it will remain at rest - it can only be set in motion by an external force. This would be the Hoid Dawnshard which prevents him from physically harming others or himself, and is likely the key to his immortality. The definition of conserve is to “protect from harm or destruction”, and the definition of remain is to “continue to exist, especially after other similar people or things have ceased to do so”. PROPEL (Shattered plains) Valour Odium Ambition Invention This is based on the fundamental forces of momentum and velocity - “the mechanical impulse experienced during the absorption or emission of light”. I believe this Dawnshard is a likely candidate for the destruction of Ashyn if it could be used to propel the surges. I can also see how this Dawnshard in combination with the other Dawnshards would cause the effect of “shattering” - which we see in both the case of Adonalsium and the Shattered Plains. For example, the combination of Propel and Change would break something apart, while the effect of Conserve/Remain would try to prevent this so that the pieces cannot be split apart too far or into to many pieces... The role of the Reforge/Unite Dawnshard is responsible for the pattern that we are able to see (eg. the Shattered Plains have a symmetrical pattern) that enables us to piece something back together. REFORGE/ UNITE Devotion Honour Mercy This final one is based on an article I read called The Fundamental Laws of Matter and Energy by Gilbert N. Lewis, which states that if a body suffers a mere loss of energy through radiation, and if then the same amount of energy is returned to it by thermal conduction, or friction, or in any other such way, the system will return to its original state. I feel like this could foreshadow the piecing back together of the Shards of Adonalsium, which we’ve already seen beginning to happen with Harmony. I also feel that the combination of the Change Dawnshard and this Reforge/Unite Dawnshard could help explain the line from the Dawnshard novella where Ryan feels something emanating from the mural... Adonalsium, according to Their own Commands, had to change at some point, was resigned to this, understood this, and was confident that They would be reforged again, anew? That the Cosmere as a whole had to experience change and be propelled in ways that Adonalsium was in some ways preventing? I’m not 100% sure on the names I’ve come up with, nor am I 100% sure about some of the proposed Shards in each (in particular Mercy, and possibly Endowment). Also I am by no means a physicist or science expert so I don’t fully understand the fundamental principles of energy and matter but I did do some research and I feel like this could be on the right track... Also I feel like there’s probably just way too much that we still don’t know to understand Dawnshards so this is probably completely wrong, but let me know what you think
  16. I mentioned in my Dawnshards and Microkinesis theory[1] a few times that I was going to be writing another related theory. Took longer than I expected, but here we are. (0.) TL;DR I theorize that several Surges share a connection to Dawnshards, though whether this is purely thematic, or due to perception shenanigans, or in some way related directly, I am unsure. These Surges are Cohesion, Transformation, and Division. (1.) Cohesion (2.) Transformation (3.) Division (4.) Some Concluding Thoughts (I.) References
  17. Now that the Dawnshard spoiler period has ended... (0.) TL;DR I believe Dawnshards grant microkinesis. Whether this is the only requirement to access it, whether this is the only way to get microkinesis, and whether this is even still canon are all questions left unaddressed by this theory, though I have my own opinions on them. (I believe the answers are "no", "probably yes", and "probably yes", respectively. The first is due to Rysn, the second is due to a line from Hoid in Dragonsteel Ch. 14, the last is part of a whole other post that I need to write after this one.) (1.) [REDACTED] (2.) Topaz and Jerick (3.) The Actual Theory (I.) References
  18. What dawnshards did Jerrick or whatever his name was, and the illusion women, hold in dragonsteel? im aware BS has said the cannon has changed but I can’t help but think there is a hint in the answer.
  19. Background Preservation & Ruin created the planet Scadrial together from scratch after the Shattering. Trell is a shard/or shard-like entity that is unknown to Harmony Trellium is the metal of a known shard: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/69-shadows-of-self-release-party/#e6261 Possible shard candidates (at time of WoB): Devotion, Dominion, Preservation, Ruin, Odium, Honor, Cultivation, Endowment, or Autonomy But not necessarily a shard: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/377-idaho-falls-signing/#e12232 Devotion and Dominion have spren-like cognitive splinters – seons and skai respectively Seons are ‘devoted’ servants to their masters Skai are described as ‘evil seons’ (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/247-ancient-17s-qa/#e5540) Avatars of Shards can be imbued with an intent and can operate after a shard’s vessel has died The Mist continued to snap people on Scadrial after Ati died Theory Preservation & Ruin pooled their Investiture and used a Dawnshard to create the planet Scadrial Ruin agreed to this use of Investiture on condition that he could destroy the planet eventually The Dawnshard that allowed for the planet’s creation is still on Scadrial and is currently being protected by Harmony A primary of Intent of Dominion shard is ‘to dominate’ The skai are evil counterparts to seons who are described as being helpful and obedient. The opposite of this could be 'dominating'. Trell is an avatar of Dominion Etymologically the word Trell is related to a Norse word meaning ‘slave or thrall’. This aspect fits as an aspect of Dominion that has an Intent to dominate Trellium is Dominion’s metal Trellium as a hemolurgic spike allowed for control over Paalm and the hemalurgic chimeras created by her. This fits with an Intent of domination. Harmony is unaware of what Trellium is and that it comes from Dominion because the Vessel of Dominion is dead. His knowledge of Shards and wider Realmatic Theory comes from self-study and from whatever the other Shard Vessels and people like Hoid tell him Trell's ultimate purpose is to get the Dawnshard on Scardrial Open Questions As an avatar of Dominion, Trell was able to move a large amount of Dominon’s Investiture off planet. Could this be connected to Kelsier (and by extension the Ghostbloods) goal to learn how to move large amounts of Investiture off planet? Could Odium’s decision to destroy Dominion (and Devotion) be influenced by what Dominion’s plans were? What (if any) is the connection to the man named Trell on Taldain?
  20. This thread is to continue the discussion about the natures of the four Dawnshards, and which Shards might be associated with each, but with the addition of Invention, Whimsy, Mercy, and Valor. --- My current idea: Change - Cultivation, Ruin, Endowment, Preservation. I understand that including Preservation here seems backwards, but being adamantly against change is still being defined by your relationship to change. Bind or Restrain - Honor, Dominion (the binding of others), Devotion (the binding of the self), Autonomy (included here under the same rationale as including Preservation under CHANGE). Act - Odium (acting from hatred, passion, fury), Ambition (taking action to fulfill one's goals), Invention (acting on ideas), Whimsy (the freedom to act on caprice). The final set, I have a hard time summing up in a single verb, but I understand as sort of a philosophical opposite to ACT. What Odium, Ambition, Invention, and Whimsy have in common is that they are centered on the desires, feelings, and thoughts of the self, with a certain disregard for what effects your actions have on the world around you. These Shards all impose their own will on the world, exert control on the world. In contrast, the final set have in common a certain self-abnegation. Instead of being able to impose your own will on the world, these Shards are about what you do when you have no control over the world, how you behave when faced with bad circumstances. I am reminded of Jasnah's perspective on the word 'hope': a value you turn to when you lack options. Arguably irrational, yet still noble. With that in mind, I lean toward Accept, but React or Choose could also work. Valor - True valor only exists when you are scared, but stand firm anyway. You accept that circumstances are dire, and choose to disregard your own survival. Mercy - True mercy only exists when you could punish somebody, but stay your hand. You accept letting somebody "get off light", and instead choose forgiveness and compassion. Hypothetical Wisdom/Prudence/Understanding Shard - The better part of wisdom is setting aside wishful thinking and accepting the world as it is, choosing to face hard truths over comforting lies. Honestly, a Hope Shard could very well fit here, but who even knows. I actually see all four of these Commands as underpinned by a fundamental philosophical dichotomy: that of self vs other, or perhaps subject vs object. But that gets very nebulous (and long-winded) so I'll save it for another post, perhaps.
  21. I have come to believe that Adonalism was somehow convinced to kill himself. We know that the Dawnshards we used to unto/kill Adonalism and we also know that the use of the Dawnshards in such a way would require "the breath of understanding of a diety" Certain things are strongly implied: The larger in scope the deed you try to do with a Dawnshard the greater the breath of understanding needed the bring the proper intent. The undoing of Adonalism required all four Dawnshards. I also believe that while the Dawnshards were held by Adonalism there were together as a part of him. He would have been the only one powerful even to use it. While he held it, it was one thing which we can call the Dawn Adonalism was put in a situation where he had to use the Dawn (combined dawnshards) to pull the dawnshards apart Doing so killed Adonalism splitting his power and expending the power of the dawn
  22. TL;DR Dawnshards "bind" things to powers, sorta. They were used to make the Surge fabrials, and before that, were used on Ashyn to create the disease magic, a pandemic of which is what led to the Exodus. I can't actually take full credit for the theory; I saw the theory they were used to make Soulcasters elsewhere, but I can't remember where to give credit, unfortunately. So far as I know, however, the latter theory is my own. First, what do we know about these things? Now, for wild speculation connecting these things! Here's the ones I'm at least semi-confident in: But what about the parts you aren't confident in? Alright then, he's some much more stretch-y parts of the theory/smaller separate theories. I'm here for crazy theories, these at least have some evidence or logic! I want my money back! Closing thoughts [insert my usual disclaimer about typos and odd ways of phrasing things, because I'm too lazy for more than a cursory scan of what I wrote] I'm not convinced of this theory, but I prefer it to just Surge enhancers. So yeah. And I like it more and more as I think about it. And as usual, this theory is somewhat rushed and not super thought through. So may have some glaring issues I didn't notice, idk. Edit: Ah, I first heard the idea on this Shardcast episode. Turns out the base theory is... embarrassingly close to identical to one of the ideas they speculated on. I did expand on it a lot, and speculate about more details, but the basic idea I apparently subconsciously took nearly unchanged. Oops References
  23. Like the title says, what will we actually learn about the Dawnshards from the Novella? from a WoB in January, brandon says that we’ll learn about the history and current lore of Aimia and some “other interesting things”(aka dawnshards) its pretty early into the series and i don’t expect well actually see a Dawnshard this early. but i do think that we will learn about the Scouring of Aimia and some other details thatll lets us/main characters, see the effects of a Dawnshard(if indeed one was used there) and discuss what had happened. or maybe we will just get some outright details on them(from a sleepless or something) which i think is less likely given their protective nature of the place. Some random Dawnshard thoughts: Brandon has said we have “technically seen evidence of a dawnshard” and that it was a “yes/no” when asked if we've seen one. So im assuming the “evidence” is something like the big soulcast walls around Aimia or what Shattered the Plains, or even some strange rock formations like the windblades and the yes/no, on if weve seen one, im assuming that we probably did see one or get a reference to it but its no longer in the form it used to be in, so we wouldn’t recognize it. we also know that “one is different from all the rest” it could be the one thats no longer in the same form
  24. The announcement of Dawnshard's title got me thinking about the nature of the dawnshards (like everyone else here I imagine ) and I think there's a possibility we may not have considered. (I didn't find any older threads talking about this idea, but I apologise if there is one.) We may have made some assumptions about the nature of dawnshards that we shouldn't have. Of the little information we have about dawnshards most of it is 2nd hand and of dubious veracity. In particular I'm not wholly convinced that dawnshards are actually objects. I'm wondering if they're simply dawnsingers who've bonded with highspren. Or a specific order/group thereof. (If that is the case, Venli would be a proto-dawnshard.) Let's review what information on the Dawnshards we actually have. The poem of Ista is probably based on real events, but to a very limited extent. I'd assume there's an element of truth in there or Brandon wouldn't have put it in the book. However, I doubt the in-world author has any idea what dawnshards actually are. Even taken as written it only very loosely implies that the dawnshard is an object and not a person or creature. He could easily be accompanied by or carrying a person. I would guess that it is accurate that dawnshards could bind things, but that's all I'd say with any confidence. It does seem that they are commonly thought of as objects in mythology. But without any actual knowledge it's only natural that people would think of something named x-shards as objects of power. I don't think this quote does much to help or hinder the theory. It tells us the dawnshards seem to be gone or unavailable in some manner and that they would be very helpful in defeating Odium. But that makes sense whether they are objects or singers. Singers bonded with spren of honor & cultivation instead of voidspren or lesser spren are more likely to oppose Odium I would think. This is far and away the most useful quote we have. But even this one could be a little misleading. The Stormfather is relating something Honor said while dying and "raving". And the Stormfather was still coming to full consciousness and says his memories of it were "strange". I don't doubt the direct truth of what the quote says, but it could be misleading beyond that. Firstly, it is unusual but not unheard of to refer to dangerous/powerful people as weapons. So even taking it at face value I don't think this confirms the dawnshards are objects. More interesting is "used to destroy the Tranquiline Halls." and the promise that surgebinders would do the same to Roshar. If my theory is right (which it may not be) that would mean that some Dawnshards had traveled to Ashyn prior to it's destruction, and were involved in that destruction. Which seems a bit of a leap at first, but thinking further it seems likely that some humans or singers had traveled between the worlds before the destruction of Ashyn. I'm not saying the dawnsingers were responsible for Ashyn's destruction; I do think Odium influenced humans were responsible. But these dawnsingers could have been used/participants in what happened. And/or the humans could have attempted to reproduce their powers. If this was the case, that would help explain why Honor and Odium both thought human surgebinders might destroy Roshar. This might be the strongest point against this theory. Though we don't know how biased the account may be. The singers were forbidden to touch those powers, presumably by Honour and/or Cultivation. But we don't know when they were forbidden, they may have been forbidden because of the destruction of Ashyn and have used them before then. We also don't know how long after Ashyn's destruction/the human arrival on Roshar this was written. Though from the little we know it was probably many years. I have to guess that the powers being forbidden happened before the wars and the oathpact. There isn't as much need to forbid it when the spren have already joined the humans, using Odium's power/voidspren is presumably worse. And I doubt the singers cared much what Honor/Cultivation might forbid them from doing after they felt they'd been betrayed by them and started serving Odium. The last line in particular strongly suggests that the higher spren had bonded with singers in the past. I'm not supremely confident in this theory, but I do think it's possible. It also just feels to me like something Brandon might do. Do you think the theory has merit? Or am I way off base. Some other relevant wobs
  25. We now know that Bondsmiths existed on Ashyn before the Nahel Bond was discovered and they were able to bind Surges somehow (Surge fabrials, probably) and use Connection to achieve spectacular results. Comparing this description with what the Dawnshards were supposed to do, it seems quite likely that they were simply using them. If so, is it possible that Ba-Ado-Mishram was able to get one somehow and use it to cause the False Desolation? Each Unmade can be mapped (with some fuzziness, of course) to a KR order, with the exception of Bondsmiths. BAM's abilities during the False Desolation, however, seem like a supercharged, Roshar-wide, version of what Bondsmiths can do (providing Connection and Investiture). It was also the first time she showed these powers: the KR weren't sure how she did it ("Ba-Ado-Mishram has somehow Connected with the parsh people") and we know that historically they feared Sja-Anat more. I think it is in the realm of possibility that her original powers were completely unrelated to this, but, against all odds, she was able to obtain a Dawnshard. Maybe it was stolen from Aimia? In such case, the Scouring might have been an attempt to repeat the False Desolation by Dai-Gonarthis
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