Search the Community

Okay, having read all the Secret Projects and all the (currently published at time of writing) books, I have a theory about what the Primal Commands that the Dawnshards represent, and how they tie Shardic Intents. The crux of my theory is 2-fold, that the Commands Dawnshards are related to the 4 Spiritual Components: Connection, Identity, Fortune and Investiture (or the 3 Spiritual Properties plus Investiture) and that as they were used as part of a weapon that split Adonalsium into the sixteen Shards and that these Commands helped form and shape the Shardic Intents; this is being extrapolated from the Mural that Rysn saw in Dawnshard. This makes some sense to me, as the Cosmere was made by Adonalsium using Investiture [citation needed, but I think it's a safe guess] and these 4 Commands. From this, I think the 4 Dawnshards are: Connect (This is the one that Hoid and Sigzil held and relates to Connection) - You can't harm living things, as they have Connection, since you'd be destroying Connection instead of forming it and binding things/creatures together. This is also reinforced by the fact that holding this Dawnshard makes you connected to everything in the Cosmere and I postulate that skipping works by Sigzil rewriting his Physical Connection to the Planet/Location in Space - I am unsure how Hoid has such a strong connection to Fortune as I don't think he holds the Fortune Dawnshard, but that could be because he changed his Connection to Fortune, or it could be related to his past while Adonalsium was still alive. Control (Relates to Fortune) - Since seeing how things move and work on a Spiritual and Axi level (so both in very granular Time and Space) probably allows for insanely fine and accurate control of Investiture and relates to Future Sight. Change (Relates to Investiture) - As Investiture wants to change from Potential to Kinetic, it wants to Change itself from one state into another. This is also reinforced by the idea that Rysn was explicitly told to not learn any Invested Art and that this is likely the Dawnshard which destroyed Ashyn. Also, as explained by Sigzil, that a creature holding a lot of Investiture - like the Chared and a being that is holding a lot of Stormlight - wants to act/change/do things. I think the reason that someone with a lot of Breaths don't have the same compulsion to act/change/do things is because Breaths are Innate Investiture and not Potential like Stormlight is. Capacity (Relates to Identity) - This most likely provided creatures with Identity when Adonalsium was creating the Cosmere. This one might be semi-self aware, like a Spren, and I think is likely the one that Sanderson mentioned is different from the others, as the other Dawnshards just have self-preservation as we learnt in "The Sunlit Man". Applying these to Shards, my idea is that opposite Intents cause tension between Shards and that these are related to the corresponding different Dawnshards that created/split them and the Spiritual Attributes/Primal Commands that Dawnshards themselves represent. This would also be why some Shards are better at Future Sight, for example, and why some have differing abilities/relate to the Commands used to control Investiture within their corresponding magic systems. (I don't think that all of these manifest directly, but sometimes they do like how Honor bound Odium to the Roshar System as he is closely tied to Connection and also require the need to form a Connection with a Spren to work.) I assign each Shard 2 different Dawnshards/Primal Commands that they are related to - a base one related to which direct Dawnshard they are most directly related to and then a secondary Intent/Dawnshard/Primal Command/Spiritual Attribute. Shardic Intents: Connect (Connection/Binding People/Not Harming Others) (Opposite of Change) Devotion : Capacity (At tension with Dominion, yet their powers work together as the Dor - so together they have opposite primal Intents/Commands. Devotion and Odium can also be argued to be opposite to each other.) Preservation : Connect (Opposite of Ruin and wants to keep everything the same.) Honor : Control (Was Married to Cultivation, and is said to uphold oaths and agreements, and to bind things together.) Mercy : Change (Not much is known about their intent, but Harmony (pure Connection and Change) became troubled by Mercy as a result of their exchange.) Change (Investiture/Entropy/Growth/Action) (Opposite of Connect) Ruin : Change (Opposite of Preservation and the manifestation of Entropy.) Cultivation : Control (Has good Future Sight, Cultivation's intent as a Shard appears to be related to transformation. In her own view, on the other hand, she wishes to grow things and people, and prune them if need be, to shape them in a desired form, even if she accepts that there will always be a degree of uncertainty.) Invention : Capacity (After that initial contact, Harmony was unable to locate Invention again - so maybe wants to be free and by itself?) Virtuosity : Connect (Virtuosity's Intent concerns artistic intent, and artistic talent, and artistic appreciation. It is said in Yumi that Art needs an Audience.) Control (Fortune/Power) (Opposite of Capacity) Odium : Change (Has good Future Sight, wants to be the only God in the Cosmere, said to be the vengeful anger of God. Opposite of Devotion.) Dominion : Control (At Tension with Devotion, Dominion's focus was probably related to amassing and maintaining control over others. Their powers, with Devotion, work together as the Dor - makes sense as they have opposite base Intents/Primal commands.) Wisdom/Prudence : Capacity (Can foresee the Future very well, wants to be left alone and away from the coming conflicts. Antagonistic to Hoid (who would have picked up Endowment if they were to hold a Shard at the Shattering), so makes sense that they have opposite base Intents.) Valor : Capacity (Wants to help Hoid, understands the issue which Odium shows, but very little is known about them yet.) Capacity (Identity/Self Determination) (Opposite of Control) Endowment : Control (Their Intent is not entirely clear; it's likely related to bestowing gifts or talents upon others. They are able to ignore their Intent somewhat, as they don't provide Hoid with help (which would be a form of Endowment); but this could be because of disagreements between Hoid and Edgli, related to the differing Intents that she and the Dawnshard that Hoid holds are or because Capacity Intent allows for some amount of self-determination. But there are certain things they are looking for when endowing Divine Breaths. They also have some capacity to perceive the future and bestow those visions upon others, so likely has some advanced Connection to Fortune.) Autonomy : Capacity (Autonomy wants to remain alone; she does not wish to be corrupted by other Shards and thinks that all Shards are better off on their own. Her philosophy is very much focused on the survival of the fittest. Under Autonomy's world order, one must earn their right to keep existing, so it makes sense that they are the purest form of Identity.) Ambition : Connect (Disliked by Endowment, but unsure if that is related to their opposite Intents or a disagreement between the Vessels.) Whimsy : Change (Not much is known, but they are said to be not congruous with intense planning and ambitions. It is also not calculating nor deliberate, so no relation to Control. Likely either Connect or Change.) All the information in brackets is from the Coppermind and WoB's. I am open to some of these being changed as we do know very little about most of these Shards, but we do know that some are truly opposite, like Ruin and Preservation and Devotion and Odium. Please let me know if you have any different ideas or modifications of this idea, but I am fairly confident of the broad strokes of this theory having read "The Sunlit Man" and "Dawnshard".

Okay, so I was reading the theorizing in general cosmere about how in the Gavilar prologue the Stormfather felt very different. I saw a lot of people saying it’s Ishar, something I agree with. This is gonna move along a few lines related to that, but starting with the point that made me post it here: 1) that reminds me of how Zellion talked about how his adherence to his oaths kept his Torment at bay at least somewhat. We know all Heralds are crazy, and one of the counterpoints to the “StormFaker is Ishar” theory was: ‘he’s far too lucid to be Ishar.’ But we know some of the Heralds insanity is magical in nature, which sounds, to me, not unlike a Torment. We know vast amounts of investiture (like a Radiant sweating an oath) and oaths, help Ishar overcome his insanity, again something reminiscent of Zellion’s Torment. He can summon his blade immediately after being in the sun, and could get past his Torment while following the oaths. Brandon said Sunlit Man had SA5 spoilers. My pitch is: StormFaker was Ishar, he was potentially bonded to the Stormfather (who said he “has experience with” Ishar) and/or he used his pre existing Bondsmith powers to highjack Gavilar/the Storm father’s budding connection and manipulate Gavilar. (We see that Dalinar can pull people into visions, I’m absolutely sure Ishar can do the same lolol). He could do all of this because HE was a Bondsmith/had sworn Bondsmith oaths, which ended after Chana (probably) and Gavilar died and the Stormfather decided to sever their bond, leading to his descent into full, unmitigated insanity which coincidentally started almost immediately after those two events. He also goes to get his sword right after these events, presumably because he wants his powers back, having lost them with his lost bond to SF. 2) that theory still works without Ishar being bonded to the Stormfather, especially because that could be a leap. (I think that the Stormfather said there hadn’t been a Bondsmith in centuries.) The other part of it though, hinges on Ishar having a Torment. All the Heralds are nuts, but it seems to ME like he’s extra nuts. And something like the Oathpact seems like the type of thing that could be created with Dawnshard level power. And we know the Dawnshards were both on Ashyn and all over Roshar, as is Ishar. So the second part of the theory is: Ishar’s insanity is part of/worsened by his Torment. Either because he’s a Herald or he held a dawnshard or both, he has a Torment which he can only overcome while a) following Radiant Oaths or b) around someone ELSE following radiant oaths or maybe c) around a TON of Investiture but that seems less likely cuz he’s nuts right by a perpendicularity. 3) more evidence for Ishar/SF bond I think is how easily Ishar (almost) takes the bond from Dalinar. He seems to know the connection well, as with the connection to Odium. We know that he now curses the Stormfather and that the Stormfather can still see him, something I’d argue is because of their potentially stronger connection now. I think it explains why the Stormfather is so jaded when it comes to trusting Dalinar as well. He’s just had a bad experience. That was a lot, so thank you if you read it, but if not: TL;DR: Ishar is the StormFaker cuz he bonded with the Stormfather and manipulated Gavilar. He held a Dawnshard at one point and now has a Torment. The SF bond suppressed the effects of his Torment, but losing the bond caused him to go crazy(er) after the Stormfather ended their bond post-Gavilar/Chana death. Tear apart my theory, provide feedback, lmk what you think!!:)

Nomad didn't have too many problems getting rid of the Torment imposed by his Dawnshard. How old is he? 200 years at most? And almost casually, he frees himself from his Torment. Hoid was at least 11,000 years old in WoK, and is probably one of the individuals with the most knowledge of the Cosmere. How is it possible that a person –no offense– relatively new to understanding the Investiture has managed to free himself from its torment before a Radiant, Elantrian, Mistborn and Awakener who maintains letter conversations with the shards? Is there a reason Hoid would choose to keep his Torment, or does being a bearer of a Dawnshard for a longer period of time come with more limitations? Or am I missing something completely different?

Hello my favourite peeps, I had a thought. We now that Adonalsium was shattered by 16 individuals a long time ago using 4 Dawnshards. Each of these individuals picked up 1/16th of Adonalsium and Ascended to being SHARDS. They had certain agreements in place and they left for their individual pursuits henceforth. We also know Hoid was present at the Shattering. He was offered one of the 16 and he refused ( maybe he was offered one he didn't particularly want). But we know that he was the holder of a dawnshard for a long time ( maybe even since the Shattering ). This particular Dawnshard is unique in the way how it alters the user's spirit web so that he can't cause harm ( I would say the irl Gandhi among the dawnshards preaching non violence etc. ). I further think the 16 stipulated Hoid to be the bearer of non violent Dawnshard to ensure their own safety fearing Hoid would use offensive Dawnshard to attack one or more of the 16. I also assume Frost to be another character present at the Shattering and could have possibly picked up another Dawnshard , maybe an attacking one. Maybe this is the reason none of the Shards had tried to claim Token as Frost is waiting there with a Dawnshard in case some Shards get the wrong idea. Now I'm thinking who took over the remaining 2 Dawnshards? Did one of the 16 take up dawnshards as well? I hope this is the correct part of the forum to discuss this. Any thoughts? Plausible? Cheers guys

he can't harm or inflict pain, he doesn't bind to a spren (although the rest of "Bridge Four" do)... and: #26 March 29, 2022 Share Copy Play/Pause 8giraffe8 Other than Hoid and Sigzil, have we witnessed "on screen" a character actively under the effects of a Torment in your other published works so far? Brandon Sanderson ...Yes, asterisk. I mean, you have, but you wouldn't be able to notice it yet.

Basically the title, do we know the extent of Hoid's restrictions on hurting living things? Hoid's Coppermind article notes that he can't harm people and cannot eat anything he believes to be meat, but I'm not sure if that's the full extent. Is his restrictions on harming living things only sapient beings - dragons, humans, singers, Sho Del, etc., or does it extend to highly intelligent entities like Ryshadium, Larkin, Sleepless, horses, dolphins etc.?At what point does it stop restricting him or would he be majorly inconvenienced if someone were to release hundreds of thousands of flies into a room he was in and he couldn't even make a step or open his mouth without endangering their fragile bodies? Alternately fill his room with hamster or kittens. Could he move when he knows he will probably kill something accidentally? Yes, there are logical extremes to this progression, but I'm not going there just yet. He can make a Cognitive Shadow (Kelsier) think they are hurting, but could he harm an Honorspren made corporeal by Ishar before they died? Can he hurt spren in Shadesmar? You acquire a Bavadium Hemalurgic spike, one of the ones that is repulsed by an Allomancer burning metals. If you were to tell Hoid that you had setup a box with the spike positioned so that if he were to burn metals it would stab a cat inside (named Schrodinger, because), would that stop him from using Allomancy? Barring a stunt like Duralumin Pulling on the spike which is dumb in so many ways. Would he need to see the cat and the setup of the box to be restricted or if he never saw the cat would he still be free to act? Ignoring Lifesense for a moment (maybe he Awakened something), would he be restricted if he believed the cat was there but you hadn't actually put Schrodinger in the box? Mostly I'm interested in the room full of flies scenario as just about anyone could set that one up with barely any specialized equipment or abilities. Thoughts?

He then opens a perpendicularity, saving the battle of Thaylen Field for our heroes. Later, Odium is ranting to Taravangian about how Dalinar wasn't supposed to Ascend, with a capital A. The question - is Odium's use of the word "Ascend" referring to ascending to the next Ideal of the Bondsmiths, or is there something more going on there? Brandon Sanderson I used a capital letter there intentionally, and normal saying of oaths would not get a capital letter. That is in a character's perspective. There's a character using that capital letter, the character uses that capital letter intentionally. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/509-youtube-spoiler-stream-5/#e15974 What do you think?

In Tress of the Emerald Sea it says that Hoid would have a 20% chance to kill the Sorceress, but Brandon has repeatedly said that a Dawnshard cannot harm anyone –Hoid can't even eat meat–. Has he managed to change this somehow? What am I missing?

1) Dawnshards are huge amounts of Investiture. Warning, WoB about SP4 2) When Investiture takes solid form, it's always a metal. This is not unique to Shardic Investiture: 1+2 implies the existence of "Dawnshard metals" in the same way there are "God metals", right? Changium, etc.

Hey All! Long time lurker, first time poster, so I apologize if the formatting isn't quite right. There will be plenty of spoilers regarding the later Stormlight books and the Dawnshard novella, so please tread lightly if you haven't read those yet. After my most recent reread of RoW I noticed how much discussion there is on Hoid’s flute and it got me thinking that it must be more significant than just a simple musical instrument. Perhaps the flute is actually the Dawnshard that Hoid has had since the shattering? Before people jump down my throat, I am aware of the theorized connection between Hoid’s Dawnshard and the First Gem. However, as we saw in the Dawnshard novella, the receptacle of the Dawnshard can obviously change from items to people. So I went back and started tracing where we have previously seen or head mention of the flute. We know that Hoid has had the flute for an extremely long time when he tells Kaladin that he has carried it longer than Kaladin would believe. The way Hoid explains the flute always seemed odd to me To me, Kaladin’s confusion about this is reasonable. He probably hasn’t seen many people play the flute while simultaneously storytelling. What bugs me about the wording is that Hoid claims he “uses” it instead of simply saying that he plays it. A little later in the passage Brandon describes Kaladin’s reaction to the music The emphasis on demanding here is what catches my attention. Sure, people describe music as demanding occasionally, but perhaps there is a bit more here. After Hoid finishes the story he gives Kaladin the flute and tells him that Which I will admit, on its own, doesn’t seem all that consequential at first glance. But when I start thinking about the little that is known of Dawnshards that passage starts to take on a different meaning. We know from the Dawnshard novella that to properly use a Dawnshard, it requires both Intent and Command. So perhaps “mastering” the flute in this context Hoid is hinting to Kaladin being able to use the Dawnshard. Further, we also know that holding Dawnshards for a long-time changes people (from Oathbringer epilogue) which has obviously happened to Hoid due to his inability to hurt others. Now Kaladin loses the flute relatively quickly after receiving it from Hoid, so he wouldn’t have developed those same effects, but maybe his time with the flute in his possession did have an effect. Kaladin is only one of two known surgebinders who was able to remain awake during the occupation in RoW. I know there are completely logical explanations made in the book as to why he was able to remain conscious, but I think it is possible that this explanation is incomplete and that Kaladin’s time with a Dawnshard in his possession assisted in his consciousness. As I mentioned, there was only one other surgebinder who remained awake, Lyft, who we find out at the end of the book has had the flute in her possession from some time after the move from the Shattered Plains! We all know that Hoid rarely appears or takes action that aren’t absolutely necessary to meet his own goals (whatever they may be). He tells Dalinar himself near the end of WoR that So maybe Hoid felt it was time to pass on the Flute (which I suspect to be the Dawnshard) because he felt Kaladin and eventually Lyft would have greater need of it in the near future.

The Coopermind says almost with these words that Dawnshards cannot “inflict phisical pain” They can cause pain in the Cognitive realm, they can kill (if the cause of death is painless). I'm thinking that if a certain Dawnshard were to hold out his hand and not give an explicit order to his Spren, if the Shardblade were to materialize (killing someone), it technically wouldn't be the Dawnshard's responsibility. Or use Diminishers fabrials to avoid inflicting pain. Or using Aon Sheo. Could someone shed some clarity, please?

I have assembled here a WOBs, and I will also assemble them piece by piece, with the longest stretches ever, into a Hoid theory. :So, the first one:. This, I believe, tells us that Hoid is looking very much to see someone again. I will get back to this one. I have a quote from tWoK, chapter 57. I see this as him basically saying that he was originally created as a thought. "Words on a page". Forgery, anyone? Well, where could MAGIC such as forgery come from before the Shattering of Adonalsium? That's right, Adonalsium. Hoid was created by Adonalsium. I don't remember when, but sometime in tWoK or WoR Hoid tells Kaladin that he stole his name from someone he should have loved, his old master. I don't want to stretch this argument too long, but maybe his master was Adonalsium? Just consider it for me, would ya? Another WOB: He can't hurt someone. OK. But he becomes nauseous just by thinking of physical pain. Might it be so that he regrets hurting someone? Someone he should have loved? I promise, the next part will be the last. THE FINAL WOB: So we know that Hoid is collecting lots of magic systems. Magic systems are Investiture right? And where does Investiture originally come from? The shards. The shards are all parts of Adonalsium. So, if he collects all the magics, and maybe even learns to combine them he may be able to get a piece of Adonalsium. THE FINAL STRETCH: I believe that Hoid wants to see someone he's lost. He also was created by Adonalsium, so Adonalsium is kind of his "parent". If he made a mistake and killed his Parent, then he obviously regrets it. He does not want to hurt someone, as he's already made that mistake once before. He also wants to remake Adonalsium. Well, that's it- He wants to remake Adonalsium. That's why he for example, in the Epiloge of RoW Wit/Hoid is having a fight with Odium/Rayse. Odium is destroying/Killing Shards, something which makes it harder for Hoid to collect everything. Thank you for staying with me! Here's a cookie! Please feel free to tell me your thoughts.

Hey guys!! I wanted to post about my thoughts on what the 4 dawnshards are, and then, divide each shard into respective dawnshards, and then, go into some theories. Here we go!!! 4 Dawnshards: CREATE, SURVIVE, CHANGE, DESTROY Why these 4? Since these are the primal commands of creation, they must include all aspects of creation. Creation must include a cycle of "birth, survive (so that life can be experienced), change or growth, and then, death". These 4 thoughts include the life. Life of a living thing, and if we go meta, life of planet, star, universe etc. So, to encompass these 4 thoughts, the 4 primal commands are: CREATE, SURVIVE, CHANGE, DESTROY Shards related to each dawnshards: CREATE: Invention, Endowment, Devotion, Unknown SURVIVE: Preservation, Honour, Autonomy, Mercy CHANGE: Cultivation, Whimsy, Ambition, Wisdom/Prudence(the shard that wants to survive) DESTROY: Ruin, Odium, Dominion, Valor Let's explain each: CREATE: Invention: To invent is to create something Endowment: When one endows someone with something, they have given something to a person that did not exist earlier with the receiver (not this exact copy). So, this is a form of creation, where something that did not exist now comes into being. Devotion: This is a tricky one, yet it makes sense. A mother and father show most devotion to a child, who is their creation. We are most attached to something we have created by our hard work. In fact, to show someone that we are devoted to someone, we want to create memories together, create experiences together. Again and again, devotion as a sentiment or emotion leads to some or the other form of creation. Unknown: SURVIVE: Preservation: The most direct form of not changing or surviving as it is. Honour: It is about following the set rules. Thus, this sentiment induces the not changing or surviving in the current state. Autonomy: It is the situation where anything external cannot have affect on the person or cannot impact any changes in the person. Thus, this sentiment is one of not changing, albeit this not changing is from external forces. Mercy: When a person shows mercy to someone, they have decided to not FORCEFULLY affect a negative change in someone. Mercy can only be shown by deciding to not change someone in situations where the other person is most prone to damage in a negative sense. So, Mercy has to be a sentiment or emotion of surviving as it is. CHANGE: Cultivation: When change is pre-planned or as much controlled as possible, and the outcome is expected. Whimsy: When Change is sudden, and outcome is not much thought about. Ambition: We have this sentiment when we want to bring about awe-inspiring changes. This may be an internal ambition, or an external ambition, where we want to bring about change in others. But, whatever that change may be and however audacious, this sentiment is an expression of change. Wisdom(Prudence): This is what a series of experiences accumulate in a person, and allows the person to grow, change and be better prepared to face future situations, whether they are good or bad. Thus, Wisdom or Prudence has to be a sentiment of change. Why does this Shard want to survive? Because the experiences it gained from the destruction of other shards forced it to learn and change so that, it did not undergo a similar fate. Why has it now decided to come back and take part more actively in shard politics once again? It must have deduced from current shard actions that if it does not intervene, the current cosmere is headed towards a major destruction. Why is survival only tangentially related to it's intent? Because, after u have learned from the experiences of others, u want to not do the same stuff others did and die. If that means, hiding for a long time, so be it. Thus, it's hiding from all activity feels like the shards intent is survival. It is not. The intent is change related. Change brought about by experiences of others and it's own. DESTROY: Ruin: Destruction of all matter and people as an end result. Odium: Passionate hate and emotions lead to destructiveness. Dominion: Once a hierarchy of dominance has been established, it means the person has destroyed some aspect of other person. The dominance may be physical, emotional or mental. Even in general culture, someone dominating other is seen as destruction of the one being dominated. Valor: It is the expression of destruction in the positive way. This destruction occurs when person has to defend themselves or others, and in situations that are not favourable. Some of my thoughts and theories about Dawnshard: 1) Novel "Dawnshard" revealed that Rysn holds the CHANGE dawnshard. I think this dawnshard has not been held by anyone we have seen onscreen other than Rysn. But, in secret project 4, Sigzil will hold this dawnshard for brief time, before giving it up. 2) Hoid held the SURVIVE dawnshard. I think, Kelsier has held and is also currently holding the Survive Dawnshard. I think, this is the reason why Hoid was able to physically beat Kelsier. I think, this is also one of the reasons why Harmony does not want to help Kelsier in any way possible. 3) I think Nightblood has the DESTROY dawnshard, and it was put in the sword by ENDOWMENT. The large amount of investiture has given the sword it's sentience, which again and again reverts to the one command that echoes in its sentient mind, DESTROY. Also, I think this action is a result of some co-politicking of ENDOWMENT AND CULTIVATION. Just look at the events. Odium comes to Roshar. Honour binds him to the system and in turn, it's vessel is killed. Somehow, 5 people from planet of ENDOWMENT come to Roshar and get inspired by the swords of the planet. But just look at one thing everyone neglects. In a planet where odium is trying it's best to destroy the shards, CULTIVATION's perpendicularity is so easily accessible throughout this time. We can even say that it is one of the most easily accessible perpendicularities in all of cosmere, even when another shard is trying to destroy the resident shards. Thus, 5 scholars from Nalthis (ENDOWMENT'S planet) come to Roshar, see the honour blades, go back, try to build replicas, somehow end up creating a sword so deadly that Shard Vessel can be killed. That sword finds its way again into Roshar without the notice of ODIUM (so easily accessible perpendicularity), and somehow finds its way to Szeth, who at the right time delivers it to another pawn of CULTIVATION's game, who ends up killing ODIUM's vessel. Coincidence? I dont think so. Specially when ENDOWMENT writes this to Hoid "You must not worry about Rayse. If Rayse becomes an issue, he will be dealt with". Such confidence shows me that plans were already underway to take care of Rayse and ODIUM. All this makes me believe that CULTIVATION and ENDOWMENT polliticked together to achieve the killing of Rayse and change the vessel of ODIUM. And this was brought about by the one thing having the dawnshard DESTROY. The Nightblood. That's it guys. All my current thoughts about the dawnshards. What do you think???

The following is a pet theory of mine that has been simmering for a few months. Apologies in advance if this has already been discussed. Odium mentions a few times that Dalinar is the only one that can release him from Roshar because he commands the greatest part of Honor's power. But it never made sense to me that Honor could trap Odium unilaterally like that, unless they made some form of agreement. But why should that agreement bind Odium? We see an interaction between two Shards elsewhere in the Cosmere where one breaks an agreement with the other and that in and of itself didn't seem to affect the balance of power between said Shards. I feel there has to be a secret sauce explanation for how Honor bound Odium. I think a Dawnshard is a reasonable conjecture. Let's call it the Dawnshard of Unity. It's a Command that binds things together. And if I'm right, Dalinar has it. My theory is that somehow the Dawnshard ended up on Ashyn, possibly carried there by Odium and was given to/taken by Ishar. With it he was able to bind the surges so that men could use them, but in a way that was unchecked. I don't think the surges at this point come from Honor because he wouldn't give access to them without conditions. The use of these unchecked surges led to the downfall of the Tranquiline Halls and the exile of mankind to Roshar. To me it seems likely that Honor would require mankind to give up the Dawnshard and the surges as a condition of their rescue. Thus Honor becomes the holder of the Dawnshard and uses it to bind Odium to the system. Honor also gives the heralds access to the surges again to fight the desolations but this time under his sanction and control. When Honor is succumbing to Odium's attack he is worried that humans will get the Dawnshard again once he dies and will destroy Roshar with unchecked surges like with Ashyn. So he leaves it with his cognitive shadow, the Stormfather. Now the Stormfather is tasked with finding a new bondsmith, but this bondsmith won't be ordinary, they will also have the Dawnshard passed to them through the bond with the Stormfather. In the "Dawnshard" novella, we discover that the Dawnshards are Commands and there are four of them. The one Rysn obtains seems to be the Command of Change and at one point she hears that command in her mind. Well Dalinar throughout the series repeatedly hears the Command of his Dawnshard too: "Unite Them."

Ok I am confused I just listened to the Dawnshard audiobook which was really good by the way but one problem I still don’t understand what The Dawnshard is maybe I’m just missing something can someone try to explain it to me please if anyone knows

There has been speculation that Frost is the other Dawnshard we have seen. I doubt it because we know that something has changed Frost to basically immortal, but Sanderson said we would not be able to see the effects of holding the shard yet. Another faction seems to think that Dalinar is the other dawnshard, but the proof given seems a little skimpy. Here is my reasoning on why Dalinar has the dawnshard, as well as a couple of alternatives (I am divided in what I think most plausible). The mural that Rysn interacts with might not be the only mural that held a Dawnshard. Now, we see a lot of murals in Sanderson books, but 2 stand out to me. 1) The mural that is in the temple in Thaylen City. The one that screams Unite Us in Dalinar's head. Later he hears the same Unite Them command in his head in the same area. Maybe he got the dawnshard while healing the murals, and has not had time to manifest side-effects. I sorta doubt this, as Rysn recognized "Change" as a command and had to accept it into herself. 2) The hall of murals in Urithiu. This seems the more likely source of a Dawnshard. The murals are referenced a lot. Raboniel even has a mini rant about it, mentioning that some of the color had faded in one spot. We also know that Honor that the Dawnshards were out of reach. In some random temple in a populated city? Someone would have noticed. But in Urithiu where you need a Knight Radiant, when none exist? A lot harder to obtain. But if the Dawnshard was in Urithiu, who would have had the means to find it? Who would have a small enough roll that we don't see them obtain it, but a big enough part to merit getting such a gift. Who would not have talked about getting such power? Sigzil might be such a one. As on exploration duties, might have come across it. But I kinda think any of the soldiers would of reported such an incident. Any squire or knight radiant would probably be already showing signs of odd behavior. But what about the ardents. The library room/crystal pillar room is next to the murals, near the Urithiru gem archive. The ardents seem ti spend a lot of time there after the midnight mother is driven out. My thought is one of them could have picked up the Dawnshard out of curiosity. Then not told anyone, either out of a desire to study it, or a simple forgetfulness. My vote would be for Rushu. She had plenty of access and is highly distractible and forgetful. Plus she is one of those side characters that has been hanging out, getting consistent screen time, just ripe to become a main character in the second half of the series.

This entire topic is kind of a spoiler so be warned all who have not read Oathbringer and Dawnshard! Oh and by the way their both really good so read them :). Chunky explanation time: Oathbringer Spoilers: Dawnshard Spoilers: SOOO... this weird theory has been kicking about in my head for about a year. Can't remember where I got it from. Theory question: Were the Dawnshards used to shatter Adonalsium by removing/destroying the god-being's 'unity'? What do you wise peoples of the forums say? This is my first actual post so if I've done anything wrong please educate this new user!

So we know Nightblood is full of Investiture. It is so full it bleeds black smoke. It is more invested than an Honorblade, can kill vessels of Shards, and was made by Awakening. Nightblood was based on shardblade design maybe even from the Honorblades. It seems to me that the 5 scholars at the height of awakening scholarship traveled to Roshar. Maybe to learn more about other worlds or other magics. They were impressed with shardblades. The sleepless were tasked with guarding the Dawnshards. One way to protect a dawnshard from Odium is to make it harder to reach. They gave it to Shashara, who created Nightblood along with Vasher. She was given the Dawnshard Destroy. They decided the best way to safely use it was if it was commanded to only destroy evil. They figured it would make the Dawnshard safer to wield. Rsyan was told not to bind a spren because using the Dawnshard in conjunction with Investiture is dangerous. Ie. Creating Nightblood with Awakening. A Shardblade so powerful because the dawnshard (similar to having the 5th heightening, or perhaps more) was used as the force to awaken it, maybe with additional breaths. What do you think an awakened soldier with the Destroy Dawnshard could do?

During the Spolier Stream #4 Brandon mentioned that we know someone other than Rysn who is a currently a Dawnshard. I believe it is Rock, even though we have seen him kill Amaram. I think his Torment may simply not have been too bad at that point or he may have been able to trick it by aiming somewhere else. Thoughts?

Can you transfer through Hemalurgic the investiture of a Dawnshard? Can you bond a spren to a shard? If a Radiant Ascends to a Shard, what happens to the spren?

I’m rereading the whole cosmere and am in the Words of Radiance. I came across this scene right before Shallan enters the Shattered Plains. She is just drawing what she feels like drawing when: I had never noticed that these two scenes almost certainly are real. The first is of Yalb surviving and the second of Shalash (shoutout to my wife for catching that). It makes me wonder if this is a part of the ability she has with Dalinar and the Stormfather to draw what either one’s seen in the Highstorm. However, Dalinar hadn’t bonded the Stormfather at this point. Furthermore, she was just thinking of her wreck before drawing and had burned a prayer to Shalash. I wonder if that’s important? Maybe she’s feeling very connected to them at that point. Do we have any information about this scene?

This entire topic is kind of a spoiler so be warned all who have not read Oathbringer and Dawnshard! Oh and by the way their both really good so read them :). Chunky explanation time: Oathbringer Spoilers: Dawnshard Spoilers: SOOO... this weird theory has been kicking about in my head for about a year. Can't remember where I got it from. Theory question: Were the Dawnshards used to shatter Adonalsium by removing/destroying the god-being's 'unity'? What do you wise peoples of the forums say? This is my first actual post so if I've done anything wrong please educate this new user!

I’m rereading the whole cosmere and am in the Words of Radiance. I came across this scene right before Shallan enters the Shattered Plains. She is just drawing what she feels like drawing when: I had never noticed that these two scenes almost certainly are real. The first is of Yalb surviving and the second is of Shalash (shoutout to my wife for catching that). It makes me wonder if this is a part of the ability she has with Dalinar and the Stormfather to draw what either one’s seen in the Highstorm. However, Dalinar hadn’t bonded the Stormfather at this point. Furthermore, she was just thinking of her wreck before drawing and had burned a prayer to Shalash. I wonder if that’s important? Maybe she’s feeling very connected to them at that point. Do we have any information about this scene?

I have a few thoughts on Dawnshards. I am relatively sure that there are four of them, I may have misinterpreted something, but I think there are four. In their name, They are called shards. This seems significant to me, and seems to imply that they were once together and part of a whole(or all of a whole). We also know that Hoid held a Dawnshard to help shatter Adonalsium. What if Hoid's end goal is to reunite all of the Dawnshards and recreate whatever they originally were?