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Over at the Mistborn forum we're discussing Copper and Bronze, but a few things are starting to get more Cosmeric, so I thought I'd move that portion of the discussion here. If you want to discuss allomantic implications of copper or bronze, or discuss why people on Scadrial wouldn't be aware of the uses, I would recommend you see what's been written over there. I intend this thread to be a place for discussion of applications of the metals across the wider cosmere. First, let me say that everything I say is rampant speculation. I know I have not one shred of evidence to support that it's true, I just think I can make a case that it is plausible, that it fits the tenor of the cosmere. A very quick primer on how I think bronze/copper works (if you disagree or want to discuss it farther, I will one again direct you to the Mistborn thread). When you burn iron, all that happens is you see blue lines. People rapidly learned that there are ways to interact with these lines, and ironpulls became a thing. In short, I think that Seekers are able to interact with bronzepulses, it just isn't as obvious as Iron's "focus on the glowy lines", hence why no one knows how to do it. I also think that when you burn copper, you send out an interference signal. The default setting is one broadband field, which is useful for some things but not specific enough to be strong; many other signals just cut right through it. I believe if a Smoker knew what he were doing, he'd be able to send out copperpulses, not just one enormous coppercloud, and calibrate them to counter specific investiture. In fact, I believe that's where the pairing comes in. I think if a Mistborn with bronze were able to sense, for example, a Nahel bond, and hear the exact pulses it puts out, he'd then be able to use copper to send out a signal to counter that exact frequency. It would throw up some interference, and it would be like that time when Syl had to fly very far from Kaladin; they both lost a little bit of what they get out of the Bond, but once the interference was over they were back to normal. As for Bronze itself, one of the greatest advantages of crossing the cosmere is finding a world where no one knows how your magic works. Vin was kept in a prison specifically designed to hold a mistborn; no allomantic metal parts. If she were thrown into jail on Sel, she could just scrape some iron or steel off something metal and bob's your uncle. Imagine crossing the cosmere, and knowing the person you're fighting is Invested, and perhaps using Bronze so well, you even get at least some idea of what that person does. An Awakener visits Roshar and no one thinks to take away his shirt, which happens to have a thousand Breaths in it, but a Seeker might be able to tell, hey wait, that shirt is major Invested. Throw him in jail without it. Anyway, that's my basic idea.

Hello everybody! This is my 2nd topic to post on this site, so forgive me if this has already been said but I thought I could point out the connections between the magic systems in the hope that we can learn how they relate to each other and the rest of the Cosmere. And I apologize in advanced, but this will be a very long post. Unfortunately, I have not read from the Emperor's Soul, so I will not be able to speak to the power of Forging. If someone would like to add that into the comments, I would be appreciative. I will add a Tl;Dr section at the bottom for those not interested in reading the full post. I would like to reflect the opinions of everyone who wants to add input, this forum page is a place for discussion, as such please be respectful of everyone's opinions. If you disagree, I would be happy to reflect your opinion on this post. To skip the explanation of all the magic systems, please feel free to Control+F "Connection" there will be a header that is bolded, italicized and underlined. Obviously, this topic will contain spoilers for Elantris, Warbreaker, Mistborn, and Way of Kings, if you prefer to read the book first, I do suggest you book mark this page so you can return to it once you have read all the books, thank you! I'm going to list a quick survey of the magic systems together so we can compare/ contrast them. I would absolutely love to hear any input or conjectures, no matter how big or small. So let's get started then: Elantris: Aon Dor: the magic of drawing Aons to access the Dor, a powerful pervasive magic that is focused through the massive Aon Rao which is Elantris and the surrounding areas. Notable Features: The Shaod will pick people in the surrounding areas of Arelon or Teod and transform them into Demi Gods of sorts, able to use Aon Dor. Once taken by the Shaod, the person's skin turns into silver and their hair turns a pure white. There is a connection between Aon Dor and Seons. The Fuel: The Dor having been accessed by Aons. ChayShan: the Magic of accessing the Dor to increase the Martial prowess. Known to the Jindoeese. Notable Features: this magic system was shown, only briefly, at the end of the book of Elantris. However, we know that similarly to AonDor, those who use the power rely on some sort of body gestures and motions (in this case a martial art) to access the Dor. Its effects seem to speed the martial artist up and giving them incredible power. So much, that Shuden was able to break the bones of a Dakhor monk. The Fuel: The Dor having been accessed through a combination of martial arts and meditation. Dakhor: the magic of enhancing the skeletal system and improving the body's capabilities far beyond what normal peoples should ever be able to accomplish. It does this by somehow by probably accessing the Dominion's gateway to the Dor. Notable Features: only the Dakhor monks in Fjorden have ever been known to have this power. While it doesn't necessarily seem to be based on location, I assume that the knowledge of how to access this power is a heavily guarded secret kept by the Dakhor Monastery. The abilities include teleportation, the ability to enhance the human body by shaping the skeletal structure. The structure of the bones seems to change the varying levels of power in this system. It also has the ability to wipe out Aons. -Thanks to Kurkistan for the Corrections. The Fuel: A willing human being must sacrifice himself. The Mistborn Trilogy and The Mistborn Adventures, book one: Allomancy: a magic that consumes metals to various effects. This magic comes from Preservation. Notable Features: Allomancy is an incredibly fun magic system in which the user can "burn" metals to push or pull on metals, forcibly change someone's emotions, hide themselves, find other Allomancers (and possibly find other uses of magics from other worlds, though this is speculation), strengthen their bodies and senses, affect their own stores (and those of others) of metals by depleting them or using them in a single burst of power, forsee the future and lastly affect time by slowing it down or speeding it up. This type of magic is genetic and becomes deluded after generations. Fuel: The fuel for Allomany comes from Preservation's power using metals as a "focus" for that power similar to how Aons focused the Dor's power. -Thanks to Kurkistan for the corrections. Feruchemy: the magic of Harmony. It relies on storing up an attribute into metals for later use. The use of this magic can be used to multiply the attributes several fold, but doing so drains the user quickly. Notable Features: Feruchemy is an end neutral magic system. BioChroma might be end-neutral, also. If the user can store up enough of an attribute, s/he can expend it very powerfully for a short time, until an equilibrium has been reached. The user can store or use the following attributes: Speed, Strength, Mental Speed, Health, Memory, Weight, Age, Senses, Warmth, Wakefulness, Spiritual Connection, Identity, Fortune, Investiture, Nutrition and Calories, and finally Breath. -Thanks to Kurkistan for the corrections and the link. Fuel: the user must store up these attributes into a metalmind of the correct alloy, then they can use that storage at a later time. Hemalurgy: the parasitic magic that can steal potentially any magic ability from any user given the right alloy of the spike, the knowledge of where to place the spike and I supposed the sadism to even use the magic. It is a "messy" magic. Notable Features: Hemalurgy steals magic from the magic user. The longer the spike is outside of a body, the more magic is lost. It is the only end-negative system in the Cosmere, so far, but it is highly possible that there will be another. When impailed with Hemalurgic spikes, the host of the spike can hear Ruin's or Harmony's intent. Given enough spikes, the host will be unable to act on their own as the intent becomes much more powerful and can overcome the free will of the subject. It's "an oddity in the cosmere". -Thanks to Kurkistan for the correction and the link. Fuel: the magic kills the Magic user and steals his power and is placed into the new host. So the fuel is either the blood, the life, or both of the host. The Way of Kings: Book one of the Stormlight Archive: Surgebinding: the magic of using Surges. There are various effects of this magic and the user can use only two, based on the Ten Essences The Ten Surges, as shown in the Knight's Radiant Table (Currently [though subject to change]: Surface Tension, Transportation, Transformation, Light, Grown, Friction, Division, Pressure, and Gravity). Users can affect Gravity, Heal, Lightweave, Soulcast without Fabrials, and can do many other things yet unknown. - Thanks to Kurkistan for the Corrections. Notable Features: All of these Magic use Stormlight and are only usable to the Knights Radiant. This magic system has not been fully explored and much of the details are unknown at this point. However there seems to be a connection between using the power, and having an Honor Spren. Though it is worth note that not all "Bond Spren" are "Honor Spren". -Thanks to Kurkistan and Gloom for the Corrections. Fuel: Stormlight, some magic left behind in the wake of a High Storm that is stored in Gems. Old Magic: Little is known about the Old Magic. We do know that they are some how tied to the Nightwatcher Voidbinding: Again, little is known about Void Binding and I will be sure to add in the information when it becomes available. Shardblades: Though more is known about Shardblades than the previous two magic Systems, there is still a great deal of mystery shrouding the blades. From what we do know, the blades were wielded by the Knights Radiant, but were abandoned on the Day of Recreance. They do not cut living flesh, but the soul it self. I could fully describe them, but it would be better to read the Wiki Article as the information there is fantastic. Warbreaker: BioChroma: is an interesting type of magic that requires the uses of Breath. Having different amounts of Breath can passively increase the wielder's ability to detect perfect hues of colors, gain perfect pitch, sense the Breath of others, Awaken without words, Agelessness, and Distort Colors among many other things. These various stages of Breath are referred to as Heightenings Every person on Nalthis is born with a single Breath given by the Shard Endowment. They can sell or give away their Breath to anyone else. People can then use these Breaths to perform a magic called Awakening, whereby they temporarily store their breath into an inanimate object and give it a command to obey. Notable Features: Awakening works best when the object is "human shaped" and organic. The closer the semblance to a human, the less Breaths are required to Awaken the object. Though, theoretically, nothing is impossible to Awaken, given the expertise and enough breaths to perform the awakening. -Thanks to Kurkistan for the corrections. Fuel: Breath (kinda). As the Breaths are not consumed in the process of Awakening, rather they are borrowed and then later returned. Some, however, believe that the fuel for Awakening is color. However it is worth noting that if this were the case, it would only be the initial fuel for the awakening as the magic does not rely on the constant draining of color to continue. At the Highest known heightenings, it is possible to use more color for awakening. -Thanks to Kurkistan and Robot Aztec for the corrections. I should note that the next three items on this list are simply an extension of BioChroma and not necessarily a new magic system unto their own. Returned: When a person dies a particularly virtuous way, they can be returned to life with a single, powerful BioChromatic Breath. In order to sustain themselves, they consume one Breath per week. They are the utmost Ideal of physical form. The men are tall and muscled, well formed, and the women are the embodiment of beauty. They can give up their one Breath to cure anyone of anything. The God King is a different type of returned but nevertheless, still a returned of a sort. -Thanks to Kurkistan for the corrections. Lifeless: these are not returned, they are simply a corpse that has been awakened to follow it's master's bidding. - Thanks to Kurkistan for the corrections. Nightblood: Nightblood is a sword that has been Awakened with BioChromatic Breath. It wants to "destroy evil" though, because it is a sword, does not understand exactly what evil is. Feel free to read the Wiki to understand the various facts about Nightblood. Ok, now we will explore the connections between the various Magic Systems: Let's start by grouping the Magic systems by how they are inherited or obtained. Magics obtained through inheritance (genetics, locations): Allomancy, Feruchemy, BioChroma (kind of) Aon Dor (though, I suspect with these two that the location only matters because Devotion is shattered), ChayShan Magics obtained though endowment (picked randomly or otherwise to ascend to power): Aon Dor through the Shaod, BioChroma via the Returned, Surgebinding, and Voidbinding (presumably) Magics obtained through taking someone's life force: Hemalurgy, Dakhor, and BioChroma (again! but this time by taking someone's Breath and/or absorbing color of nearby objects with the possibility of taking it from human flesh... looking at you Nightblood.) As you can see, there aren't a terrible lot of differences in the means of obtaining the powers. So let's take a second to explore some of the similarities. In Aon Dor, when one is taken by the Shaod, there is a visable change in their coloring. They get white hair and silver skin. We presume the one gets taken by the Shaod for having considerable Devotion to something. In BioChroma, the Returned come with just one Breath, like normal, except that this Breath is so powerful that colors seems to glow much brighter and more pure in their presence. Similarly to Aon Dor, the Returned are chosen to come back based on some Virtue that they possessed. In Surgebinding, the user glows when he holds in Stormlight, while there isn't a large difference in appearance (other than the the eye color changing to become a "Lighteyes") a Surgebinder is picked to become such when they display incredible acts of Honor Virtue. - Thanks to Kurkistan and Gloom for the correction and the link. My guess is that Voidbinding would be doable if one exhibited supreme hatred, thought this is speculation. Otherwise powers are obtained via location, heritage or simply by stealing someone else's power. We will get into that in a bit. Now let's take a look at the various storage of Fuels and their similarities. The majority stores their powers in Gems, Metals, and Bones. Though the powers vary on effects and uses, the method of storing excess power is similar. Allomancy: Metals Feruchemy: Attributes stored in Metals Hemalurgy: Power stolen; stored in Metals Surgebinding: Stormlight stored in gemstones Soulcasting with a Fabrial: the fuel is probably Stormlight stored in gemstones, but I imagine the cost is offset the Spren. Dakhor: The fuel is a human life, it is stored in human bones. Aon Dor: The Dor, a pervasive magic on the World of Sel. It acts differently as it isn't really stored so much as it is released. Probably similar to the Well of Ascension. BioChroma: Breath, kind of. In this regard, BioChroma acts differently. There really isn't a "fuel" for their power and it can technically be stored in anything. It even acts conversely against the other metals (IE storing Breath in Metal or rock is actually quite hard, its much easier to store it in something that was once living, similarly to Dakhor.) I believe that the fuel for the power of BioChroma is offset by Endowment, not unlike the Dor. It has been noted that the particular storage of fuel, be it in metal, gems or bones, could be irrelevant, and it could simply be a different method for a different world. However, given that the Shards created those worlds (and presumably the method of storing their power) it could have some relevance. - Thanks Kurkistan for the commentary. Alright let's evaluate the various Investitures that the Shards give to their Creations: Ok this is a bit harder to explain, this group evaluates the similar ways that the Shards invested themselves into a planet. For Example, the Seons and the Spren are the direct result of the Shards reducing their power (Seons, it seems were actually a result of the shattering of Aona [Devotion], and logic dictates that Spren could be similarly created. Though the origin of Spren seems to be a rather large debate with too few facts to say for certain) Seons and Spren are a particular life that exudes the influence of the Shard, presumably, and retains some of their power. Just to clarify, some examples of this power are the Seon's ability to communicate like a telephone and the Spren's ability to change size, shape and form. Furthermore, on Scadrial, humanity is, in part, different than everywhere else because they have a bit more Preservation inside of them. Then on Nalthis, Endowment has endowed (wow shocker) humanity with breath but even more powerfully, Endowment gives a very powerful Breath to the Returned to bring them back to life. We don't have a ton of information on the investiture of the Shards into the races in Way of Kings but we do have the Aimians who can change the form of their bodies not unlike the Spren that exist on that planet. I can't imagine that Shinovar doesn't have a large touch from Cultivation, but that's speculation. The point is, that the Shards have all invested themselves into their creations. We know from Preservation that this weakens them. This may be the way that Odium can be stronger than the other Shards as we can only really attribute the Voidbringers to his power, definitely not a full planet filled with life. - Thanks to Kurkistan, WeiryWriter, and Shardlet for the input and links. These Magics Grant Sentience: In Way of Kings, Syl slowly gained her sentience as her bond with Kaladin grew stronger. In Warbreaker, Nightblood gained his sentience through the vast amount of Breaths he received when he was Awakened. It would also be interesting to note, that while humans can Awaken, Endowment can Awaken granting full sentience rather than partial robotic following of a single imperative 90% sentience. - Thanks to Kurkistan for the corrections. In the Mistborn books, the Koloss and the Kandra both received their sentience when Hemalurgy was used on them. In Elantris, the Seons received their sentience from the Aon that glowed at their core. It would seem I am mistaken about the sentience of the Seons. It actually comes because they are Splinters of Aona (Devotion) IE the Dor's power was channeled in a way that gave them cognizance. - Thanks to Kurkistan for the correction and the link. While BioChroma remains King on investing mundane Items with Magic, it most certainly isn't alone: In Elantris, Aon Dor, by simply drawing an Aon on something, you turned something mundane into something magical. Need a light? Draw Aon Ashe on the wall. Want a Flamethrower or a Torch? Draw Aon Ehe on an object. Et Cetera. In Warbreaker, the Awakener could simply Awaken an object with a set of instructions for the Awakened item to obey. It temporarily took breath, but the item would do as commanded. You could also do this to a corpse and create a lifeless servant to follow and obey you. Do take note that a dead body acts very differently than a live one. This rule is the same with shardblades. In Mistborn, while you couldn't make items universally magical to all who held them, Feruchemy stored their magic in the metals, Hemalurgy stored the magic in the metals and an Allomancer could burn metals to produce magic. This becomes important to note. Most of us understand the mechanic of burning Feruchemical metals (metalminds) as an allomancer. The Feruchemy turned the Metal into something... greater than simple metal. I'd wager that there would be similarly fantastic effects to burning hemalurgic metals (Mistborn 2nd Trilogy mayhaps?). So while the metal would appear to be magical, it most certainly changes the properties of the metals in some fundamental ways. This begs the question if the metal's atomic compisition changes measurably and if the futuristic metals could be engineered to be "full" artificially for Feruchemists. IE, could they store a book into a coppermind that any Feruchemist could pick up and "read" anyway, sorry for the tangent =P. Also note that you can't affect metals in someone else's body. - Thanks to Kurkistan for the input. in Way of Kings, when stormlight fills a gem, it glows. When a Surgebinder lashes an object, it glows and sticks to whatever the Surgebinder wanted it to. The Shardblades and Shardplate are most certainly magical as well. They act differently in the hands of a dead man, and against dead bodies. Meaning that a dead man's Shardblade will not vanish if he drops it. Ok, so they're similar... So what? I think Brandon Sanderson means to write several books in which we can see the interactions of our favorite heros or at the very minimum a few books in which we'll see the way these magic systems interact. They are made to be used together. Adonalsium shattered and created the Shards which made the magics. This means that essentially these magic systems were all one at some point. However, there is a distinct possibility that these systems were not created to work together in some fashion, Kurkistan aptly points out this in the following quote. I would like to add a section in here concerning the ideas about the Spren and Seons that I have seen reflected in the comments below. Thanks to everyone for the input. - Natan - Kurkistan - Natans So this is the fun part of the post! I want to hear some of your ideas and input as well! What happens when the two magic systems meet? What happens if you burn an awakened metal? Could a Feruchemist access or store attributes in Awakened metal? In a Stormlight Gemstone? Could a Sel version of Nightblood or Shardblade be made by Forging, Writing an Aon on the blade, or using a Dakhor Bone Blade? Would Lightweaving be more powerful with Aon Ashe present? Does a Hemalurgic Spike steal all the victim's Breath? Does a Hemalurgic Spike affect Spren or Seons? How many of Sazed's religions do you think were Realmatically aware? What are the chances that Odium was worshiped on Scadrial? Could a Returned come from another planet? Could they be Returned to another planet? If so, what would happen to a Returned Mistborn? Say, Vin and Elend? Can a combination of the magic systems somehow repair a splintered Shard? I wrote this article to be discussed! If anyone has any input, please feel free to share it! I would love to hear it. Critiques are welcome, but as this is a post to discuss and speculate I would appreciate it if you would be polite to your fellow posters! TL;DR The magic systems are very similar in a lot of different ways. This could help provide some insight into the Cosmere about how Shards work and perhaps the purpose of Hoid's mission. Thanks everyone! I look forward to hearing your response! Please let me know if I missed giving you credit from your comments in the post!!!

Please note: this theory is currently REDACTED due to steelhunt. Once certain info comes into the public domain I will unredact. If you have a steelhunt code already and want to discuss redacted areas privately, I am very happy to do so This is mostly building on Isomere's theory: The Tanavallah: a Surgebinders Guide to Harmonics: {http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/3301-theory-the-tanavallah-a-surgebinders-guide-to-harmonics } Please note a lot of this is my speculation, and getting thoughts down, please do add comments/refutations. SURGEBINDING Ok so here is the adaptation on the table at the back of WoK that Isomere put together: (LINK) Here is Isomere's original version: (LINK) And here is my adaptation. Working heavily off the table found on the Coppermind about the Ten Essences: (LINK) Blanks are currently unguessed. Where it says 'see note' this is due to redaction IMAGE PARTLY REDACTED EDIT: Thanks to a number of fantastic comments, I've had a good rethink and have changed the table from the one here {LINK} to the one here (also shown below): {LINK} The table has been developed thanks to discussion and analysis of Brandon's readings. The large circles represent the Order of the Knights Radiants where the small represent the Surges. The numbers on the picture correspond to the table (PARTLY REDACTED) below also provided for reference {LINK}: Main Changes and notes: General: Which parts are physical/cognitive Honor/Cultivation are up for debate, although I'm leaning towards top Honor, bottom Cultivation. Number 1: We know that the top right 2 surges (for 1) are Gravity and Pressure but not which way round (corresponding to the Windrunners. {LINK} I think Gravity and Pressure are correctly assigned as pressure works better with Smoke than gravity. Number 2: Smoke & pressure > Dust. Seems to make sense. WoB is that Dustbringers ARE an order of the radiants. [ Signing 2 at about 27 mnutes ; thanks to Miyabi for pointing out]. The dustbringers are theorised to COMBUST items which also suggests heat, whereas light is used elsewhere in the table. {LINK} Number 3: Brightcallers are a theorised potential Order. This is the only place I can see them. It may be this order that can 'control the sunlight' by manipulating heat? Number 4: Redacted Number 5: Growth, Light, plants. Number 6: Working on the assumption this is where Shallan fits in. (Shalash/Shallan ties are well documented (creativity etc) importance of Blood, etc). Memory may be an extrapolation of light and sight abilities, and we know about the soulcasting. We know that lightweaving makes an appearance in SA {www.theoryland.com/intvsresults.php?kwt='lightweaving'} . WeiryWriter noted the following: "Lightweaver was a possible title for Shallan's book and there was a uncited quote ...that Shallan would have three apprenticeships, Jasnah, someone, and Hoid who we know uses lightweaving." So it looks light Lighweavers fits well here, and means Light is attached to 5 and 6, which makes sense. Complementing quotes can be found by searching for 'lightweaver' here: {LINK} Number 7: Jashan hints at the end of WoK that she has a different combination of surges than Shallan, and given they both share the ability to Soulcast it makes sense that Jasnah is here. The reason I've put her here and NOT 5 is that Jasnah is 'bad with organics' i.e. life forms, plants. Seems odd she would fit in 5. That hints that transportation is between 7 and 8. Number 9: We have been told travel is one of the surges{www.theoryland.com/intvsresults.php?kwt='surges'} and Miyabi has stated Stonewards can travel, although I haven't seen the quote, her statement is here: {LINK}. It is certainly speculated due to the Stoneward suddenly appearing in Dalinar's vision. We know that regrowth was combined in a fabrial using topaz and helidor and we have seen the order of stonewards use such a fabrial. This originally led me to suspect growth was between orders 9 and 10 however Moogle pointed out the gemstones could be there to Target bone and flesh, which makes more sense in the overall structure. Also, if growth was a Stoneward power they would not need to use a fabrial. {LINK} Number 10: We have confirmation that Order 10 is the Skybreakers. As Gravity manipulation would give the ability to fly, Travel is probably not a Skybreaker Surge and so must be between 8 and 9. { LINK - Search for Glyphs } Double eye: I've been thinking about the double-eye symbolism and it would make sense if the two pupils represented the merging of Honor and Cultivation. The double pupil (see image below correspond to the Flesh and Plants orders (5 and 10). This would suggest that order 10 (men) is part of Honor and order 5 (Plants) is part of Cultivation. Also, note the links between orders (big circles). 5 and 10 are linked. 4 and 6 are linked to 5 (Cultivation) 1 and 9 are linked to 10 (Honor) 1 and 4 and 9 and 6 are linked; suggesting the counterpoints for Honor and Cultivation respectively? 2,3,7, and 8 are linked to the central point of the diagram, i.e. between 5 and 10, an equal mix of Honor and Cultivation. I am coming to the view that the top half is more Honor, and the bottom half more Cultivation. Cultivation: Plants, Blood, Crystal {Loving, Learned, Creative, Healing, Giving, Honest} Honor: Men, Air, Stone {Protecting, Dependable, Pious, Leading, Resourceful, Guiding} Equal mix: Metal, Oil, Smoke, Fire {Just, Confident, Brave, Obedient, Wise, Careful, Resolute, Builder} VOIDBINDING I've gone through the Theoryland archives and dug out the items from the following articles that I think are interesting to this discussion as they pertain to Voidbinding; (Keywords: Surges, surgebinding, voidbinding, shardblades.) Also included are some WoK Quotes We have also seen, in addition to the tables above, the table dubbed the ‘table of dissonance’: ( LINK ) It follows a similar layout to the double-eye of the Radiants and each of the surges (or voids, as I shall call them) is represented as a de-symmetrised version of the surge on the normal table; indicating, it seems, some sort of twisting of the surge. Voidbinding is mentioned in WoK as having to do with trying to predict the future – that would suggest some manipulation of time, which is why I believe time is one of the voids. We also know that there are 3 main over-arching magic systems: Surgebinding, voidbindings, and a third which is related to fabrials: Q:You have told us there are more than 30 magical systems on Roshar. I am assuming there are 10 surgebindings and 10 voidbindings. Do the next 10 belong to another such classification? If yes, can you give us the name for it. A: Fabrials are part of it. Now, we know Szeth has similar abilities to Kaladin, a potential Windrunner, however: Q:Does SzethsonsonVallano's Surgebinding require HonorSpren like Kaladin's? A: No, it does not. (Hm....) Gold star to you. Q:Is there a link with the fact that we know that Szeth is truthless and the fact that Honorspren are what cause Surgebinding? Is there a connection there? A:There may be. I won't say. That's a RAFO. Szeth isn't actually in an order of Knights Radiant. Something different is happening with Szeth that people have already begun to guess. And Kaladin isn't yet a Knight Radiant, but the powers he uses are those of the Windrunners, one of the orders of the Knights Radiant. Szeth is using the same power set. The symbol stamped into the front of the first hardcover represents the Windrunners because of Kaladin's awakening as a Windrunner. Also because of Szeth, but mostly because of Kaladin We know that glyphs can be written in many pictoral forms. In the surge table, they’re written to style as a sword (WoB), in the table of dissonance as (speculated) an animal, but the last quote suggests they represent the same overall glyph. Additionally, we know that Szeth is using the same power set but is not using Radiant-powers. And, we know that there are 3 sets of 10 powers; surges, voids and something relating to fabrials. I hypothesise that voidbinding voids correspond to surgebinding surges, except for the manner in which one obtains these powers (spren-bond versus other means, possibly relating to Szeth’s oathstone). Therefore, if predicting the future is a voidbind (as is alluded to in WoK), some manipulation of time is also a surge. There may also be Void orders - Ghostbloods maybe? There’s also an interesting extrapolation to do with Shardblades. Syl has stated that she prefers Dalinar once he gave up ‘that thing he carried’ (his shardblade) Also, we know that the Radiants abandoned their blades and Taravangian says to Szeth: “that monstrosity of a shardblade you carry” Q: Was Syl’s appearance and behavior caused by Kaladin giving up his shardblade? A: It was a major fundamental factor in what happened between them. So it seems that honorspren/ radiant-binding spren have some aversion to shardblades for some reason; this may be why Szeth does not surgebind, but voidbinds? We also know that he is not allowed to give up his blade which ties in to this theory. This theory is slightly complicated by the fact that we are told: Q: Is there a functional/structural difference between modern-day Shardplate and the stuff the Radiants wore? Did the Radiants have to use infused gems to keep their suits going or could they just 'breathe in' Stormlight and feed the suit off of their 'inhaled' reserves? A: Something is different. You will find out what. Q:Is there any ramifications to the holder of a shard blade for using a blade in a manner that it wasn't intended? A:Depends on the type of Shardblade. (You have seen three different kinds in TWoK.) For most, no. For some, most certainly. So we cannot be sure if this is Syl’s aversion to all shardblades or just one type. However, 3 types of shardblade could correspond to the 3 types of magic; Honorspren might only like honorblades, regular shardblades might be part of the fabrial set and Szeth’s ‘monstrosity’ might be some kind of voidblade. Also, on the point of voidbinding, we know from Navani’s notebook translation { Link to wiki, search for Navanis Notebook } that fabrials are powered by trapped spren (you could say, a spren Bonded to a gemstone). Surgebinding required bonding to spren, but what about voidbinding? Szeth is the most likely potential voidbinder we have seen, and the only similar item I can think of is his oathstone. Some kind of oath, perhaps, secured in an item is necessary to gain voidbinding powers? Q: With Szeth, the Assassin in White, is he tied to the [Oath]stone or is it a genetic thing or is it kind of like a spren? A: RAFO Q:What did Szeth do to become a Truthless, and is there anything else involved in being a Truthless that we haven't seen?" A: Szeth was perceived as betraying his people in a fundamental way, and you will learn more about that when his book comes along. Q:Is Szeth bound to a spren? A: No. He's not. Q: Was Vallano, Szeth's grandfather, also a Truthless? And if not, what did he do to disgrace the Shin? A: No, Vallano was not Truthless. Szeth was a very respected member of his society, once. There are clues to what happened in his story, but you won't hear it in full until he gets his book. (Which will include his flashbacks.) Q: Is Kaladin naturally stronger than Szeth in using Stormlight? Szeth can only hold onto it for a few minutes, but Kaladin has been shown to hold onto it for much longer. Or does it have to do with Kaladin having a spren? A: Ah, so you all noticed that, did you. Glad you did. I have like a dozen things I nearly posted here, but all of them spoil a scene in Words of Radiance. So I'll just zip it for now. Voidbinding and Surgebindings probably have their own set of limitations. Surgebindings may be more powerful but perhaps voidbing can be done to anyone, via an oath-bond, or perhaps it has more far-reaching applications. Apologies for the ramblings!

I've been trying to search just to make sure if anyone has brought this up yet, but I haven't seen anything. If someone has, I'd love a link to the topic. I want to point out that I only just discovered this wonderful website this past week. I've been reading/gobbling up all the theories and WoB voraciously, but I obviously haven't read everything yet. Still, it was bugging me that I noticed this and hadn't seen anything about it, so I'm going to post it. I don't have the annotations for all of the information, although I know for sure that I've read them in the past few days. Please forgive my lack of evidence for some statements. I was looking at a picture of the colored front page of TWoK that shows the 10 surges/Heralds and their faces and symbols, along with the odd dragonwasp-things. (I found an image via Google here: http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121114044819/stormlightarchive/images/c/c7/Knights_Radiant_and_the_ten_Surges.jpg). I was already beginning to think that the ten heralds and the KR and the different surges can probably be further categorized because of Navani's notes (http://coppermind.net/w/images/Navani2.jpg). The bottom image labels each of the ten jewels in the double-pupil (I forget the proper name for that formation, and surprisingly Coppermind doesn't have it listed that I can find), and I noticed that the top are all related to love while the bottom are all related to hate. Also, it seems the ones on the left are somehow related and the same for the ones on the right. The jewel placement obviously lines up with the Heralds' symbols in the first image from the front inside cover. I noticed that each of the symbols of the surges line up with a face on the outline (I'm sure people have noticed this) and also that each of the KR order symbols on the inside (they have to be) have lines connected to two of the surges, which makes sense since the different orders were said to be able to access two kinds of magic, correct? I don't have an annotation for this one, but I'm sure I read that. The one in the upper right hand corner is Jezrien 1) because the face is of a man with a crown and 2) the surge symbol associated with him is part of the symbol for Jezrien's shardblade. This got me to wondering how each of the 10 surges may be similarly related/categorized. Each of the surges also has a line that connects it to the one directly across from it, so Jez's surge symbol is connected by a line to the surge in the bottom left corner, etc. Each connection is between one man and one woman, meaning that the Heralds had 5 men and 5 women. I was looking at them all and realized that the top half is all men and the bottom half is all women (also can't help wondering if Navani's image has them switched/upsidedown, since I would associate women with love and men with hate, or even if Navani has general terms that are only partially correct). But then I realized that the categorization is very similar to the table of Allomantic Metals. Each of those are categorized, and are put into four quadrants in a similar way that the surges/jewels seem to logically be divided into four quadrants (http://images.wikia.com/mistborn/images/0/04/Table_of_Allomantic_metals.jpg). Could this possibly be a connection between the magic systems? Also, it really bothered me when I realized that Kaladin's symbol (seen on the big image here: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/3091-not-a-herald/) looks like either Lerasium's or Zinc's Allomatic symbol (especially Zinc's). Is this just a coincidence? Especially because Zinc is in the upper right-hand corner of the Allomatic table, just as Jezrien's surge is... I'm less convinced about the Kaladin connection than I am with the connection between the two charts. Also, perhaps this is somewhat off-topic and maybe has even been discussed, but do the Allomatic symbols seem to have spikes driven through them? Are the symbols actually some sort of Hemalurgic guide to illustrate the type and placement of spikes in order to extract that particular ability?

So, I'm new to the 17th Shard, but I've been a huge Sanderson fan for a couple years now. I was completely blown away when I first learned of the Cosmere, Hoid, and the spooky connections in all of his books. (Hoid was my favorite character even before I knew he was everywhere.) Anyway, when I got Cosmere-savey, I thought to myself, If I had a Shard, what would its intent be? After some deliberation, it struck me (in a rather serendipitous fashion) that Serendipity should totally be one of the Shards (hence my username). I'm thinking a person would gain access to this Shard's magic system essentially by complete luck. I picture the shardholder interpreting the intent to mean "doing as much good in the most bizarre and unexpected way possible". Thus, he/she gives random people magical abilities to allow them to help others, and also to test them with responsibility. Think Hoid with a Shard. Please reply to either call me an idiot, or acknowledge my genius!

This entire post is a HUGE speculation, so be warned. Edit 6/11: This chart was created to mimic the Kabbalah, and uses color, form, relationships and symbols to create meaning. The ideas below are all my interpretations of these relationships and symbols. The main structure of the diagram is a large eye with two pupils and 10 lines radiating out from the center. The smaller symbols form a ring around the iris. The beasts wings form the sclera of the eye. If you take away all the trimmings it becomes the symbol of Knight's Radiant. "Dalinar recognized the symbol, the particular pattern of the stylized double eye, eight spheres connected with two at the center. It had been the symbol of the Lost Radiants, back when they’d been called the Knights Radiant." (Ch 19). But what does that symbol mean? I believe these images are a graphical representation that Honor and Cultivation merged into one Shard with two Intellects. In effect, they are both peering out of the same eye, but with slightly different points of view. The Harmonic Table: KR symbol Double Eye Double Skull I think its quite important that the two Winged Greatshells are symmetric, and that there is a single larger head with mandibles created in the negative space between the two physical forms. The left beast represents Cultivation, the right beast represents Honor, and the central head depicts the spiritual union of the two Shards. There is also a Glyph located at the place where the two Dragonwasp heads connect. The heads and symbol viewed together resemble a crown with the central gem placed over the forehead. This Gem contains the glyph of Ishi. Now putting it all together: Ishi is associated in the Ars Arcanum with guidance and piety, and resides in the third eye focus of the spiritual union of Honor and Cultivation. The Skybreakers then are an Order of Radiants devoted to guiding us based on visions of the future. Ishi is the 10th Glyph, so 10 becomes a symbol of revelation. Each glyph and map shape is important, and you can make similar interpretations for each order of the Knights Radiant. We can even use this image to figure out the general location of the two Shardic pools, and predict their release into the physical realm through the Greatshells. This is also a way to organize Surges, and by association, Invested Spren. Think of the diagram as a coordinate axis grid. The x-axis is Investiture, the y-axis is Realm. The quadrants tell you the element type. Before we go any farther I suggest you look at how the color changes from top to bottom. Up is Physical, down is Cognitive. Left is Cultivation, right is Honor. Each Spren relates to a primary element or combination of primary elements. Going clockwise from the top right we get air, fire, water, earth and spirit in the middle. The large glyphs are Spren, and correlate to an Order of Kights Radiant and an Honorblade. The small glyphs are Surges and represent a power of creation. Starting from 1:00 and going clockwise the Surges are: External Physical-Gravity, Pressure External Mental-Darkness, Light External Temporal-Transportation (Timespace Contraction) Internal Enhancement-Transformation (Spiritual Connection) Internal Mental-Memory, Awareness Internal Physical-Perception, Strength This fits with Windspren ( Pressure and Gravity), Cryptics (Memory and Transformation) and JasnahSpren (Transportation and Transformation). If this is grouped correctly, StoneWards would be Strength/ Perception. Edit: Skybreakers would be Strength and Gravity, Lightweavers might be Light and Transportation (which could explain how Hoid gets around through time and space) Where are the other 6 Surges? They were never Invested by Honor/Cultivation but the spren exist and some have already been incorporated into fabrials. We see a radiant use Heliodor (gold) to mend wounds and we've seen a painspren fabrial work. What is an Honorspren? What is a Cultivationspren? That depends on how sensitive or specific you want to be. I'll just arbitrarily say you must have more than 50%, which would give you 4 Honorspren, 4 Cultivationspren and two hybrids. A purist would say there are no Honorspren as they all contain a bit of Cultivation. Surges and Symmetry: To understand Voidbinding you will need to grasp the theory behind Surgebinding. Each Surge represents a power of creation and is accessed through an associated Wave, or perhaps through the Concept of how that wave should function, or through a portion of the Ideal Form of the original Wavepattern that sparked the creation of all things. It seems the medium is variable, and you can reproduce a Surgepattern with light, sound, color or even quantum probability waves. Notice that everything in the chart has perfect symmetry. This is a reflection of how waveforms have spin, creating alternating positive and negative cycles and generating perfectly balanced patterns. Symmetry became a cultural obsession in an attempt to get closer to the Harmonic Divine. Voidbinding The Table of Dissonance: Enter Odious Interference. His Intent is either to enslave or destroy everything else in the Cosmere. If He were to join the spiritual union He should add varying amounts of His investiture to each of the available spren, effectively creating a z-axis to the Harmonic Table. But He is a Jealous Younger Brother and didn't want to sully His Essence by combining with others. Instead, He found a way to enslave or destroy the Surges in the Harmonic Table. First, he created a way to trap the Investiture of the paired Shards into StormGems (Fabrials) and harnessed their powers. Next he used those powers to create perfect dissonance in the waveforms of the 10 Surges. Notice that the Table of Dissonance pairs up exactly with the Table of Harmonics. Surges are warped by reversing their charge and spin. This would in effect create an anti-surge. The very powers of creation are turned against themselves. Matter, Spirit and Mind are replaced by Fire and Shadow. EDIT: you can try this out for yourself by drawing a sine wave. Try and swing the part below the x-axis to create net zero at all points along the graph. EDIT: This is a supernova created when a star began to produce antimatter at its core. The organized matter turns into random energy and forms fire and empty space. This theory is far from complete, but it is as thorough as I can make it with the Splinters I'm working with. I'll be trying to finish the Harmonic Table based on Shardic Lens Theory, but could be hard to link everything up with only 10 of the 16 powers. My guess is we will see more Fabrials fill in the gaps for us. Since this theory depends on Honor and Cultivation uniting into one spiritual entity, it serves to reason that they are both partially splintered and partially whole. How that would affect the Cognitive aspect of the two shards is unclear, but best interpreted after reading chapter 57 and 75. Edit: I've done numerous organizational changes to clarify things, and I changed the Labels on the image a bit. For example, Heat changed to Light Edit 4/28: Based on discussions on page 3, renamed inertia to Strength, switched Gravity and Pressure locations. Updated image to reflect changes. Removed "Spin" from OP to avoid unnecessary confusion.

Hey everyone, Went a bit mental with my last paycheck and I bought all 7 of Brandon's books from his website, signed and personalised - i now have almost everything published by him, signed and/or personalised I asked for general hints about Hoid and WoR, and he wrote in the copy of TWoK (direct quote) Okay, fine. One hint, but not one in each book! In WoR there is a hint about how Hoid moves between planets - + it involves something you've seen in other worlds... Don't know if this belongs elsewhere, but I though I would put it up I have also just included a picture of my book shelf now - can see my uber awesome collection, including two copies of Legion, two of TAoL, and if you people look close enough, can also see the english versions of his bookbs beneath as well :

I was thinking about this last night and knowing that 16 is a big arc number when it comes to the Cosmere and BS, I got to thinking about whether the alloys count towards that number. My reasoning is that it does not; because Shards influence the world and that because alloys are man made things, we have only seen 8 of 16 metals used on Scadrial for the Metallic Arts. Of course if BS has said otherwise I'm totally willing to give up this notion of mine

Hello fellow psycho cosmere fans!!!! I have recently finished all of Brandon's published comsere works and decided to come here for more information on the cosmere. Initially I thought this was a bad idea because now I am going to waste too much of my time on here but I get so excited when I find a new theory or discover a little detail that I missed earlier (it's addicting). There is much more to the cosmere than I initially thought...I mean before I came here all I knew was that Hoid was in all the books and something was up with some of the Shards but otherwise I was clueless. So overall this was a good decision in the end to come here. I want to find out more about the cosmere so if I ask some stupid obvious questions I am sorry...I am new to this and I will do my best to keep up and learn fast!

While getting my books signed by Brandon today at Phoenix Comicon, he asked me if I had any questions for him. I, of course, had a notepad of carefully worded questions for him to answer but they were buried deep in my bag. Rather than fumble around like a fool, I blurted the two questions that I could remember off the top of my head. Me: Did Seons exist before Odium visited Sel? Sanderson: (Mind you, he actually stopped signing my book mid-autograph when I asked him this) Wow! That's an awesome question! No! No they did not! Me: So, as a follow up question, are Splinters, then, fragments of killed Shards (I was trying to ask an underlying question here on whether or not Odium had visited Nalthis)? Sanderson: Yes and no. Most of them, but not all of them. Not necessarily. I SWEAR I had more questions to ask based around some theories I have. I had a list. Hidden. Deep in my bag. I looked at it and came across two in particular that I have been DYING to ask him. Based on other information, I believe we may have seen or been near Endowment's Shardpool on Nalthis and was going to ask him about that. My other question revolved around whether Vin got spooked by Hoid was due to the fact that Hoid was one of the guards earlier in the chapter complaining about the cold and--since her senses are heightened from tin--if she picked up on that guard's voice and recognized it when Hoid was humming. On a subconscious level. Who knows though? Anyway, I think the first question really helps out some!

Sanderson has stated that Hoid possesses feruchemy. However, it is known or theorized that Hoid is Midius from Yolen. Sanderson has said that you have to be from Scadrial to possess feruchemy or allomancy. Did Hoid get a Hemalurgic spike for feruchemy?