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  1. Copperclouds can protect one from being sensed by Seekers, and any beings that detect Kinetic Investiture. They can also protect from emotional allomancy. Copperclouds have limits to their strength and can be pierced by a strong enough Seeker. So would it be possible, even hypothetically for a Smoker to become so powerful, either momentarily through Duralumin or permanently through Lerasium-Copper alloy, that they can either block the sight of a Shard or at least protect them from having their emotions messed with?
  2. Copper Allomancy doesn't entirely make sense to me- it seems to smother the rippling effect created by Kinetic Investiture and simultaneously can smother the effects of Emotional Allomancy on the Smoker. That sounds a lot like if someone were to suck the energy out of soundwaves you could deaden the sound it would make. . . only, you can pierce a Coppercloud with sufficiently strong A-bronze, making the cloud useless. I see two possible explanations for this; 1. A Coppercloud makes a sort of bubble, similar to A-Bendalloy or Cadmium, and within that bubble the Copper actively hides the Pulses made by Kinetic Investiture, but does not actually remove them. A sufficiently strong Seeker can pierce this cloud however, allowing them to sense the Pulses hidden within. 2. The second (and I feel more likely) explanation is that a Smoker is actually absorbing the Pulses of nearby Kinetic Investiture (if I recall correctly, this is how Vin describes it when she senses Copper being burned), but the Smoker is not strong enough to absorb all of the Pulses, meaning that a strong enough Seeker can still potentially sense Pulses through the Cloud. This also could be why they are immune to Emotional Allomancy and why they could theoretically shield other as well (WoB)- they absorb the waves of Investiture that emanate from the Soother/Rioter, preventing it from ever reaching its target. If #2 is true, I think it may be possible to become a strong enough Smoker (via Hemalurgy, F-nicrosil, or external Investiture reserves) to make it impossible to sense any Pulses no matter how strong the Seeker. For example, let's say a Smoker with ten times the strength you'd normally find is strong enough to completely absorb all Pulses from regular powered Allomancy (stronger use of Investiture is easier to detect). Even if a Seeker with one hundred times the strength of that Smoker was to attempt to pierce their Coppercloud, there would be nothing to detect, so they'd sense nothing.
  3. I've been spending a lot of time thinking about the nature and synergy of different Invested Arts lately (mostly because I've been creating some of my own for the Combined Shard Names thread) and I'm a bit confused. A-Copper is rather cut and dry in what it does. It blocks Allomantic Pulses, and it makes the Smoker immune to Emotional Allomancy. But when you consider it, what is is doing to cause those effects? It also blocks Life sense, can presumably block a Singer from accessing the Rhythms, and can block your thoughts from detection (presumably). How does that work? I'm having trouble following what exactly it's doing, Realmatically. Thoughts?
  4. Okay, so I was just wondering, what would happen if a two Feruchemists were to store all their memories in a unsealed copperminds and then switch copperminds and tap all of the other person's memories? Would you become that person in a new body? Could someone keep doing this to effectively be immortal?
  5. I know, I know, copper Comounding is hardly a new topic. But I believe I can shed new light on it: an unexplored possibility The most common theories about what copper Compounding does are 1. It duplicates the memory 2. It enhances the details 3. It lets you see things in the memory that you hadn’t seen before. I believe that there is another underlying Cosmere mechanic in play, one that allows all of the above to some extent. To avoid Stormlight spoilers, I’ll put the relevant WoB here and use the Coppermind’s description unspoilered. “Visions are almost like glimpsing into the Spiritual Realm, but viewed through the Cognitive Realm.[2] This is done by a person being pulled through the Realms into the Spiritual Realm, with the Cognitive Realm adding framework to seeds set in place. This allows the person to interact with the vision, and for the vision to respond, similar to an AI.[3] Almost anything can be shown in a vision.” It is my theory that Compounding a memory creates one of these visions. Creating said vision lets you vividly replay that memory and you could theoretically record your experience after, thus providing chances to duplicate or relive an event. But that’s just the tip of the iceberg. If you act a different way in the vision than you did in the original event, you can see new possibilites. Like a more detailed version of gold. But there’s also one other possibility. While you can’t use any physical objects from the vision, things that affects your mind and soul should still carry over. For example, let’s say I’m a copper Compounder and I had a memory of battling a strong Lightweaver. In the vision, I do something different and they successfully use Soulcasting to turn me into fire. Assuming I provided enough Investuture, perhaps by Compounding the memory several times, the power should still work even in the vision. And while the details are provided by the Spiritual Realm, most of what you experience is fabricated by Preservation’s easily renewable Investuture. Of course, you’d also have to figure out what actually affects the spirit or mind. Hemalurgy is probably a no since you need a physical spike. Repeated Essence Marks might give you a power without needing a physical stamp. Maybe you could trick a vision into giving you Breaths (the Breaths would self convert into a proper physical form). That would be a nice way to back door Compound Breaths. If you guys have any other candidates, let me know. Finally, you may be able to bring others into the Vision if they are Connected, perhaps with proper Intent. That would be good for communication or even distraction if you have allies. Anyway, that’s my theory. Brandon was being especially cagey not just to save Compounding, but because there is an underlying mechanic that can do unexpected things. Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
  6. How is it that Copper Feruchmy is so useful? In TFE pg. 233, Sazed says that he has memorized 172 languages. But how would he be able to use them, even after tapping the knowledge? wouldn't he need to train and practice with them in order to use them in any practical situation? Also, if a copper Ferring or Full Feruchemist removes their memory in order to save it for later, wouldn't they just forget what it is exactly that they have the potential to recall?
  7. I've been thinking about H-Copper, specifically it's ability to steal 'Intelligence, mental fortitude and memories'. This makes me want to ask a few questions about it. 1) What exactly would 'Intelligence' mean? Is it mental processing, learning speed or a combination of multiple traits? 2) How would Hemalurgic Decay affect Memories taken? Would it lower the number that you took or lower their clarity? 3) If you were also a Copper Ferring and implanted yourself with a copper spike, could you store the spiked memories into a Coppermind? Because if so you would be one hell of a detective. if you were okay with murdering suspects of course. Any thoughts?
  8. If someone were to burn allomantic copper, would they have some added protection from being Soulcast (aside from simply holding more investiture) since their cognitive aspect would be less mutable to outside influences? As a side note, would someone who’s soul was pierced by a Hemalurgic spike be extra susceptible to being Soulcast?
  9. I have a little idea as to how someone could learn the contents of a huge library without ever even cracking the cover of most of them. First, go to the library. Second, start reading a book, but also look at the titles of the other books. Third, use a Soulstamp to rewrite your past to say that you read a different book than you actually read. Fourth, save the information of the books in a Coppermind, allowing you to retain their knowledge even after the stamp expires. What do you guys think of this plan?
  10. Allomantic copper is confirmed to be able to hide you from Seekers, Awakener's Lifesense, and Secretspren. Could it then be used to hide you from the Shades of Threnody? What if they were enraged, and the Smoker only activated their power after then? Could a Smoker break any of Threnody's three rules and not be effected due to their powers?
  11. I was re-reading Mistborn when I noticed that Clubs is often forgotten by the other characters, and it made me begin to wonder: were Club's powers helping hide him from the other's attention? It's been confirmed that Allomantic copper can hide you from an Awakener's Lifesense, which is an ability that all people in the Cosmere have, with the exception of Drabs. Could an Allomantic copper savant be harder for people to notice because they are hidden from people's natural Lifesense?
  12. We see in the of the Bands of Mourning that there are Unsealed Copperminds being traded across Scadrial. Honestly, this seems like one of the most expansive ways that culture and scientific progress will be shaped, even more so than the flying boats allowed by iron Feruchemy. If you could gather a group of individuals, each with an Unsealed Coppermind, who would then go and research an assigned topic, you could have them store and give this knowledge with one specific individual who would gain massive amounts of information very, very quickly. This could greatly speed up Scadrial's technological progress, as scientists could gather a significantly greater amount of knowledge on a subject much more quickly, allowing them to expand on that knowledge with greater speed. If you combined this with Unsealed Zincminds you'd be able to throw Scadrial to the forefront of technological advancement in the Cosmere (it kind of already is, but Roshar is getting there too, so they've got some stiff competition). It would also be interesting to see people who's job it would be to gather information in these Copperminds for the use of others and how they would go about it. Would they need to study the same topic twice so that they could remember it? Would special studying strategies need to be employed? How would they prevent their own idle thoughts, biases, and assumptions from accidentally slipping into a Coppermind along with everything else? That last one in particular seems like there could be some interesting complications.
  13. No idea if it's already been asked and I can only think of one known case where this possible, but do we think it would be possible to suppress the aura granted from holding breaths by burning Copper? I think Copper has been described as somehow changing something internally that makes it so you no longer give out Allomantic pulses, and I wondered if that would reduce the aura that you personally show without necessarily removing the benefits of the Heightening you've obtained. If this is possible, is there a limit to how much burning Copper can mask a Breath aura? I wouldn't be surprised if you could mask the first few Heightenings, but I'd be really surprised if it worked on the 10th. I'm looking at Hoid who we know had the 2nd Heightening and is a Mistborn, but I'm not sure if we've seen color distortion around him. I know the Returned can suppress their divine Breath, but I'm not sure if we've seen this done with standard Breaths. In fact a case against being able to do it with standard Breaths, we've seen Vasher routinely storing his excess Breaths in his clothing to remove his aura. Thoughts?
  14. Assuming that you could find a way to bypass the physical mutations of giving yourself Hemalurgic spikes filled with human attributes (such as being a shapeshifter, such as a kandra), and you found a way to combine multiple Hemalurgic charges in one spike (possibly by using Raysium), could you use a super charged Hemalurgic copper spike to give yourself abilities that you'd find in the movie Limitless? Kind of a lot that you'd need to overcome, but if possible it would be one of the most powerful abilities that you could get.
  15. If you were to go to the cognitive realm on Roshar and implant one or more Hemalurgicly charged copper spikes into a lesser spren, could you grant it sapience? Would you then be able to bond it like a radiant spren? Would it be easier to bond because of the holes in its spiritweb?
  16. Just noticed, in Oathbringer, the Reachers appeared to be using veins of copper (or bronze) running across the ship to communicate with each other without speaking.
  17. So in a re-read of mistborn I was struck by the fact that a-copper doesn't just mask rhythms but also makes the user immune to emotional allomancy, and to me that strikes as something very interesting. I went through the archive trying to see if there was anything about copper messing with various forms of Invested magic, and I found that it would mess with singers and spren, but what about Radiants? For example, would a Smoker very near to a Lightweaver be able to dispel an illusion? Or perhaps be resistant if a Windrunner/Skybreaker tried to lash them to the sky? My line of thinking is that copper burning makes the smoker themselves act like a heavily invested object that's difficult to manipulate. Other types of allomancy don't directly affect another person except for bronze, zinc, and brass, (and possibly nicrosil/chromium but we have no confirmation of that, do we?) and copper blocks all of that. Along that line of thinking, a Smoker would also be resistant to surges directly affecting them, right? It would be difficult to target them with a surge, and if copper flaring (which has been RAFO'd repeatedly) extends that ability to those in the coppercloud, that would be very interesting. So in the end my question is: Do we have any WoBs or information concerning Smokers being able to interfere with surges? Or any WoBs or information about Smoker's allomantic immunity to brass/zinc also applying to nicrosil/chromium? Because I can't find any in the archive myself.
  18. Most other forms of Compounding are obvious in their effects: Iron Compounding gives much greater weight, Gold Compounding gives much greater healing, Bendalloy Compounding assures you’ll never get a bad case of the munchies ever again, etc etc. Other forms of Compounding are a bit more mysterious but nevertheless somewhat guessable: e.g. basically all of the Spiritual Feruchemy Metals (Fortune, Connection, Invesititure, Identity). However, one metal stands out from all the rest in that nobody really knows what it would do if you Compounded it: Copper. I’ve seen people guess ‘perfect recall’ (as in, Compounding a copper memory perfectly ingrains it into your brain without it ever fading); however, I also have an alternative theory. Compounding gives you a much greater quantity of whatever you’ve stored in your metalminds, and that being the case it makes sense to me that when you burn a copper metalmind you gain duplicate versions of the memory that’s inside it. Now, you may be wondering: What’s the point of that? What application could having multiple versions of a single memory have? Here’s where you have to remember the crippling disadvantage to copperminds: Once you store a memory in a coppermind it no longer exists in your head. You can either have it in your head or in your coppermind, but never both at once. And every time you remove it from your coppermind, the memory degrades a little more. Feruchemists developed a few tricks to get around this, of course. Remember the scene where Sazed has to write information down on a piece of paper in order to remind himself of what he had stored in his coppermind? But it’s a limited and less than ideal method. With Copper Compounding, however, this limitation becomes null. You could burn a coppermind, duplicate the memory that’s within it, and then store one of those duplicates in another coppermind while keeping the other(s) in your head. Moreover, with the creation of copper medallions, it becomes possible to share memories with others. Depending on how many duplicates a Copper Compounder is capable of creating (it should be quite a few considering it’s repeatedly said that Compounding is supposed to enhanced Feruchemical power ‘tenfold’), you could widely spread information depending on how many unkeyed copperminds you have available, all the while keeping the information in your head as well. It’s interesting to think about what might be possible with this skill. What is the limitation on how many memories you can duplicate? If a Copper Compounder had a coppermind like those of the old Keepers, where it contained centuries of inherited knowledge, could they duplicate those vast stores of knowledge into other copperminds? Imagine being able to keep infinite backups of valuable memories and information. That’s my theory, basically. And with medallions, Copper Compounding also becomes effectively the Feruchemical version of the printing press, able to widely disseminate large quantities of identical, reproduced information. Either way the main reason I like this theory is because I think it’s more in keeping with the original theme of Compounding: Instead of simply being able to store memories, you’re able to duplicate them; just like instead of only being able to store strength or speed, you’re able to enhance the power stored in the metalminds. What do you guys think? This is my first every theory post, so I'm curious what responses I'll get.
  19. Dancer

    Copper clouds

    What effects happen when you burn flare Copper or use Duralamin and Copper or have a lot of smokers burning in one area. Acording to Brandon it does weird things. We know that normally it can hide you from seeking and life sense. It can dampen the color distortions caused by holding a lot of Breath. And IIRC it can with enough strength block a Parshendie from hearing the Rythms. But what do you think the "weired effects" can be.
  20. I've been having some thoughts on Allomantic copper over the months, so I thought it an appropriate time to share my findings. First, most of the relevant evidence that is out there. Evidence: Deductions: The takeaway here is that Brandon has managed to accidentally confirm that Smokers block out all types of Investiture. The fact that Seekers can detect other magics, tied in with the fact that they can't detect anything when Smoked, nails this down despite the RAFO. EDIT: Actually, it's not quite 100%, now that Claincy mentions it I think about it. Technically, a Seeker could be uniquely affected by being Smoked, which affect is unique and separate from the reason why he can't sense other Allomancers who are themselves in Copperclouds. I find that a somewhat arbitrary and inconsistent way for copperclouds to work, but it is a possibility. It also tells us that "life sense" works on the same level as other magic. Other magic which is "the power of creation". This ties the "Spirituality" of life sense to that of Investiture: if we can decide one, that gives us a firm clue as to the other. Copper's universality also narrows down the range of ways that it can work: Now it has to not only block out Allomancy's ripples, but those of all Investiture. It can no longer be posited that Copper somehow uniquely interacts with Allomancers to disrupt Seeking. I also think this lends some additional credence to a rather off-the-cuff theory on this that I've been espousing for a bit now. Main theory: (pirated from another post of mine) Note: This is mostly speculative, though I think it highly plausible. If you want, just ignore this and go about your day happy with the knowledge that Allomantic copper blocks out at least the ripples of all Investiture. Copper is weird. In fact, based on its weirdness, I hereby posit that talk of "clouds" is, in fact, highly misleading for how copper actually works. Given that we know that copper can absorb/negate the Investiture of Rioters/Soothers aiming at the Smoker, as well potentially shield the emotions of others, what if copper actually actively absorbs Investiture, rather than masking it? So the Investiture aimed at a Smoker is absorbed because it's right in the middle of the cloud and/or he automatically defends himself with his absorption-powers, while the "ripples" that Seekers detect are actually comprised of energy themselves, energy which the Smoker can take in and counteract with his own copper-fueled energy, to an extent. So a skilled Smoker would be able to consciously extend the scope of his absorption to include Rioting/Soothing directed at others. This seems to solve a bit of weirdness, since Copper is supposed to be both internal and pulling, yet doesn't seem to do either when you think of a Smoker as actually establishing some miasma of negation, rather than the Smoker's range simply being a measure of how far out he's reaching to absorb stuff. This is backed up, to some extent, to how burning Copper "feels" to Vin: "Vin [burned copper]. The only change was a was a slight feeling of vibration within her" (Final Empire). The Copper, then, seems to change Vin's nature such that she acts against the pulses in the fabric of the universe around her, the same pulses that Bronze detects. This counter-action is not perfect, though, as ripples seem to remain, and her own Copper-burning creates its own ripple that cloud-piercers can detect. "Piercing" a coppercloud, it seems, is thus simply a matter of reading whatever left-overs the Smoker isn't strong enough to eliminate. Pulses that Vin detects through clouds are described in the book as "muffled", and so this would explain that.
  21. A thought recently came to me. It has been mentioned that of all of the current cosmere stuff, Sixth of the Dusk is the latest, chronologically, in-world. The Ones Above are theorized to be spacefaring Scadrians from MB Era 4. They appear connected. Of the Aviar powers we've seen, they seem remarkably similar to Allomantic abilities. Aviar that show your death are similar to both atium and electrum, whilst Aviar that shield your mind are reminiscent of copper. There are predators like nightmaws that have an ability similar to that of bronze. Basically, that parasite over at Patji's eye is animalian Allomancy. You eat it, you gain Allomantic powers that are similar to human ones. This seems plausible, but do you fine folks see any holes in this?
  22. Does a copper cloud protect the user from other applications of investiture? A copper cloud prevents a seeker from sensing the use of investiture in it's area. Burning copper protects the allomancer from emotional allomancy. Does a copper cloud provide protection against other uses of investiture? For example, does burning copper protect the allomancer from being soulcast? Does burning copper protect the allomancer from a leacher? Does burning copper interfere with a blood sealer's ability to track you?
  23. I've got an idea in my head that through some combination of Copper, Nicrosil, and Harmonium that it would be able to duplicate the memories held in a Coppermind and transfer them to multiple individuals. My basic reasoning for this is that everything in a Metalmind is some kind of Investiture and Harmonium is able to duplicate the at the very least the Investiture from Allomancy and Feruchemy.
  24. What would happen if you flared gold? Or atium? I am asking for a friend. He also asked what would happen if you flared copper, so I told him that it would just extend the coppercloud. Any thoughts, insoght, anything?
  25. I have a few theories on this front, but the floor is open. The problem with any theories made, of course, is that we know so little about Spinning. First, and least interesting, is simply somehow managing to get them in a situation with no variables, allowing them to be killed. This of course assumes that they would not be lucky enough to avoid the situation. Second, somehow manage to use a combination of a Leecher and a Lurcher (sounds like a bad children's book) to remove their metal and metalminds. Once again though, we fall into the trap of them simply being lucky enough to avoid this scenario in the first place. Third, highly speculative, is to do with aluminium. As far as I understand it (correct me if I'm wrong), an Aluminium Gnat, far from having no effect whatsoever as is said in-universe, has the ability to completely negate all Investiture in the Misting's body. If this extends as far as Feruchemy, a Purger, as I would call them if I was right, would be able to walk straight up to the Spinner, completely ignoring their luck, and kill them. Perhaps, like copper, it might create a cloud with lessened effects on other people, but I'm just speculating now. Anywho, what think?
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