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So I was wondering if there's a direct correlation between Ruin and seeing into the future. Why does burning Atium specifically give you the ability to see into the future?

In The Well of Ascension we see Lerasium burned by Elend so that he becomes a Mistborn of extremely powerful Investiture. However, Brandon has said in his notes that this is simply a side effect of burning Lerasium, not the main effect. Now, I'm not sure if someone else made a topic on this already (I tried looking but couldn't find anything), but it seems fairly obvious to me what that function is. When burned, Lerasium should be able to be used in place of any allomantic metal reserve (i.e. I could burn Lerasium as a mistborn and, if I chose, get extra strength, speed, and balance as if I were burning very pure allomantic pewter). Here is my evidence... Lerasium is related to Preservation and is thus linked to Allomancy. Its opposite, Atium, is related to Ruin and Hemalurgy. So, if we see how Atium acts in Hemalurgy, it may give us a clue about how Lerasium acts in Allomancy. As a Hemalurgic spike, Atium steals any attribute/Investiture, so Lerasium in my mind should at likewise. Throughout the original Mistborn trilogy, Vin draws in the mists, the gaseous form of Lerasium, and burns them for super heightened Allomantic strength, such as when her Allomantic steel power can see the Lord Rulers bands even though they are heavily invested (and maybe pierce his skin? I don't remember...). However, toward the end of Hero of Ages, Vin draws the mists in her fight against Marsh and burns Lerasium in this way, gaining other allomantic powers by only burning the mists. I don't have a physical copy of the novel, so I can't quote directly from the book, but that is how I remember that scene happening. However, this brings up another question. If Atium and Lerasium both perform all functions within their respective systems, can Harmonium do the same within Feruchemy, storing and tapping any attribute (that can be stored and tapped through other metals)? Harmonium is ettmetal, so it may be difficult to keep a Harmonium metalmind from exploding, making this theory unlikely, but I believe it needed to be discussed. Again, I don't know if someone else came to this conclusion already, I assumed this was common knowledge until I could not find anything on it.

Ruin and Preservation investiture as a Source of Feruchemy Hi everyone! This is my theory about the Feruchemy's development on the people of Scadrial, or at least on the Terris People. The key to this Metallic Art (for me) is the Atium or to be more precise, the Ruin's Investiture. But first of all, a little backgrond on the Feruchemy: The Feruchemy was the only of the Metallic Arts to be widespread before the Rashek’s Ascension. And from the beginning of the Books seems to be “only” a genetic ability of the Terris People. After this short introduction, I could begin with the theoretical part of my theory: Feruchemy is a manifestation of Investiture of Scadrial, from Preservation and Ruin using the Scadrial’s Focus. The metals. The Feruchemy is an art of balance between the two shards, therefore the two types of Investiture in the Human Beings is very important to access to this Metallic Art. The Scadrial’s Humans has both Preservation and Ruin Investiture but the first is greater. The Humans may develop Feruchemy by changing the amount of Preservation-Ruin Investiture thay have. An “easy” and praticable source of Ruin’s Investiture is the Atium. Now we come at the Core of the Theory: The Feruchemy could be “unlocked” by increasing the Ruin’s Investiture through eating Atium. (a piece of Atium very small compared to a bead of Atium I suppose). But at this point I am not sure about what the real requirements are, I have two plausible ideas and both of them have pros and contros. Balancing the powers: The Preservation Investiture and Ruin Investiture have to be very similar in quantity(percentage). Treeshold of the two powers: The Preservation Investiture must be at least X and Ruin Investiture must be at least X (more investiture of P or R is right too). Now I will explain the global pros and contros in the theory and after the individual pros and contros of the case a and b. Pro: The Feruchemy could be “gifted” to the Terris People by Preservation through the Terris Prophecy directing some “patriarchs” to the Pits and give manipulating them to obtain the Atium (we know that the Pits was in the Terris land). In a close system, the initial catalyst of Feruchemy would be preserved quite good (while they began to cross the bloodlines, the power faded). Contro: The Hoid’s Feruchemy isn't easy to explain with this idea. Now examine the individual pros and contros of the case a and b. Case a: Balancing the Powers. Pro: Preservation may created the Terris People with the minimun quantity of his power to make them sentient. Therefore with less (if none) Allomantic’s potential and with a lower treeshold to develop the Feruchemy by adding Ruin’s power. A not Scadrial Human (like Hoid) has an very very low treshoold (or null). A bit of Preservation and a bit of Ruin could be enough, Ruin could be obtained through Atium and Preservation by the Mist (He could trick the Mist to obtain at least a tiny Preservation’s Power not enough for the Allomancy) The “Allomancy’s gene and Feruchemy’s gene don’t mix well together” are very likely to the opposite requirement to expression itself. The Ruin’s powers needed to a “not Terrisman” could be to much and lethal. A feruchemist could be the “best holder” to both Preservation and Ruin together. Contro: Rashek had an huge Preservation’s Power and mantained his Feruchemy, but maybe once you had the power, you can’t lose for just unbalancing the Investiture. Case b: Treeshold of the two powers Pro: Fullborn has no problem to exist. The “Atium’s Misting test” could be try to find a new potential Feruchemist as a source of Spike. Contro: Every nobles could potentially be a Feruchemist by eating atium (The Atium is very rare and expansive, but I think Rashek used this way to obtain Spikes for the Inquisitors). Hoid’s Feruchemy are less likely than the case a. Future Implication: With the Harmony’s Ascension now Scadrial has 2 type of Mists one of Preservation an one of Ruin and a new “god alloy”. By this theory the Harmonium could be use to became a Allomancer or Feruchemist (case a) or a Fullborn (case B ) What do you think about this theory ?

Several other posters have discussed this: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/53224-atium-alloy-powers/?hl=%2Batium+%2Balloys http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/53832-there-are-2324-main-metals-pre-harmonium/?hl=%2Batium+%2Balloys http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/53183-atium-larasium-and-alloys/?hl=%2Batium+%2Balloys The ideas and thoughts of the others are excellent and I wish to give them credit for their theories. If I have missed a theory that touches on a few things in here without citation, my apologies. With that said, I would like to present my opinion based on my understanding of the current known magic system. Before we begin I would like to paint a major and well known difference between preservation and ruin. Preservation can listen, see, and understand the thoughts of man (internal cognitive sharing via pulling). While Ruin can speak and enter the thoughts of man (external cognitive force via pushing). The internal vs external balance may be a key to how the alloys of the god metals work. In one of the above posts, the OP discusses their theory of larasium alloys as gifting the burner the ability to become a misting. I 100% believe this theory as well. It is very much like preservation to preserve the essence of the metallic ability. Diluted forms of the pure metal that invested a human with that essence would indeed coincide with the preservation-like ideals. This is a very internal effect caused by the burning of the metal. Metal burning away is in way an act of ruin. The user consumes metal and burns away the metal until there is nothing left. However, larasium metal burning is not something that just goes away. The essence of the metal is stored within the user, preserving the essence and giving the user something more. I agree with another OP from a post above, that atium alloys change the way that the metal burns. However, I disagree in the effect upon burning. I believe that atium alloys are all external in a sense. Many of the replies in that post point at this. I also believe that atium alloys are in some way diluted forms of pure atium just like larasium alloys. How could one dilute atium (the ability to see all of the immediate futures of nearby people)? I think that the information gained from burning atium is too vast for a person to really understand what they are capable of (just like a new mistborn unaware of their powers). It is possible that someone used atium and their first use of it relied heavily on one effect. You can only burn it for a very short period of time so testing theories is not something a typical misting/mistborn would spend their time on pre-harmony era--especially as it was so expensive. I think that seeing the immediate future of everyone around is very valuable in a fight especially in an era of swords and H-to-H combat. It is possible that atium can be channeled or used in other ways than seeing into immediate futures. So the use of atium channeled into the reverse of electrum (seeing into others futures) may be the most valuable form of atium-alloy in that era. Reverse electrum may have been the only form of pure atium ever explored. This could explain the name malatium. So I will cast away this name for now as it may just be the name that was used to describe the 11th metal as it produced the reverse complement of what atium was known to do. Instead I will use the prefix 'ati-' to describe these god metal alloys. There for the atium use we know of will be ati-electrum and malatium will be ati-gold. I believe that all of the 16 original metals are forms of the 'self' power, while ati-metals are 'non-self'. Some of these will be obvious while others may be less so. But I would appreciate feedback and thoughts on the theory written below. Here is a list of the original 16 metals and their abilities (thanks to one of the OP above for list): Steel ( self Physical External Pushing) - Push on nearby sources of metal Iron ( self Physical External Pulling) - Pull on nearby sources of metal Pewter ( self Physical Internal Pushing) - Increases physical strength Tin ( self Physical Internal Pulling) - Increase senses Brass ( self Mental External Pushing) - Soothes (dampens) emotion (of others) Zinc ( self Mental External Pulling) - Riots (enflames) emotion (of others) Bronze ( self Mental Internal Pushing) - Allows one to hear allomantic pulses Copper ( self Mental Internal Pulling) - Hides own allomantic pulses in cloud Nicrosil ( self Enhancement External Pushing) - [Enhances] allomantic burn of target Chromium ( self Enhancement External Pulling) - [Wipes] allomantic burn of target Duralumin ( self Enhancement Internal Pushing) - [Enhances] the next metal burned by user Aluminium ( self Enhancement Internal Pulling) - [Wipes] Internal allomantic reserves of user Bendalloy ( self Temporal External Pushing) - Speeds up time for those in bubble Cadmium ( self Temporal External Pulling) - Slows down time for those in bubble Electrum ( self Temporal Internal Pushing) - Reveals your own future Gold ( self Temporal Internal Pulling) - Reveals your past self Possible atium-alloy abilities: ati-Steel ( non-self Physical External Pushing) - Forces another to push (or repel) all nearby sources of metal ati-Iron ( non-self Physical External Pulling) - Forces another to pull (or attract) all nearby sources of metal ati-Pewter ( non-self Physical Internal Pushing) - Increases physical strength of another ati-Tin ( non-self Physical Internal Pulling) - Increases senses of another (This block and the next block were very hard as self and non-self are sort of part of two of these metals already. I would like you to think of brass and zinc as target mental changes of the USERS desire. Non-self could be the desire of another person to change surrounding emotions. Though this may be a stretch, but hiding ones pulses in a way is keeping to oneself. However if you projected those pulses in the cloud instead you are sharing your pulse with others.) ati-Brass ( non-self Mental External Pushing) - Allows another to soothe (dampens) emotion (of self) ati-Zinc ( non-self Mental External Pulling) - Allows another to riots (enflame) emotion (of self) ati-Bronze ( non-self Mental Internal Pushing) - Force others to hear your allomantic pulse ati-Copper ( non-self Mental Internal Pulling) - Amplifies (intensifies) the pulses of user and those in cloud (As mentioned in previous block self and non-self are sort of part of this regime. I would like you to think of each metal in this regime as a user benefit or a target benefit not self and non-self already. It is possible to be both non-self and user, self and user, non-self and target, and lastly self and target. Here we describe the non-self user and non-self target. We will also replace the previous [enhance] with [surrender] and the previous [wipe] with [provide]. The below works as the abilities used and metals burned are not of self but of non-self). ati-Nicrosil (non-self Enhancement External Pulling) - [surrender] user metals for benefit of target. (This would enable someone you touch to access your metal reserves). ati-Chromium (non-self Enhancement External Pulling) - [Provides] wild card burning of next metal by target. (This allows target to burn next metal for an ability they already posses) ati-Duralumin (non-self Enhancement Internal Pulling) - [surrender] others metals for benefit of user. (This would allow user to access the metals of others nearby as your own reserves). ati-Aluminium (non-self Enhancement Internal Pulling) - [Provides] wild card burning of next metal by user. (This allows user to burn next metal as a wild-card for an ability they already posses). ati-Bendalloy ( non-self Temporal External Pushing) - Speeds up time for others nearby (tire-shape) not the user and not people outside that ring. ati-Cadmium ( non-self Temporal External Pulling) - Slows down time for others nearby (tire-shape) not the user and not the people outside that ring. ati-Electrum [atium] ( non-self Temporal Internal Pushing) - Reveals the futures of people nearby ati-Gold [malatium] ( non-self Temporal Internal Pulling) - Reveals the pasts of others nearby Thanks for reading. I hope that if anything this was thought provoking. As one of two asides, I believe that the main purpose of atium (ruin essence) is to 'use up' scaradel metals (depleting them forever). As I mentioned earlier preservation alloys would preserve the essence but it is my thought that atium alloys are a tool of ruin to catalyze the ruination of metals on scaradel. Below is a link to another post on this matter. The second aside is the use of atium for metalminds. I believe that any metalmind atium alloy will be able to store non-self attributes. Storing another persons weight, strength, health in place of your own. Any thoughts? I will attach a link to a simultaneous post about a theory of the fate of all metals once I post it in a few minutes.

For anyone who doesn't know, the Spiritual Realm is a place full of Connections. We have known this for a little while because of a WoB, but we haven't grasped its implications fully until Secret History. In the novella, we saw Kelsier "see" connections to things, as though it were a line tying things together. For example, one can have connection to a place, other people, or Shards, as explained in Bands of Mourning. When an allomancer burns Atium, they peek into the Spiritual Realm, and see possible futures based on that knowledge. IIRC, the Atium Shadows are really just a side effect of what Atium really does. Brandon has hinted that this is the case a few times. Recall that moment at the end of HoA, when Elend burned Atium with Duralumin. WoB states that he saw into the Spiritual Realm, and saw Preservation's plan, Ruin's plan, and his own part. He saw that he had to die for Vin to do what she had to do. Most of this is quite well-known, I think, so onto the main point of the speculation: What would Hoid be able to do with Atium? Does he know all that it does? Before Kelsier broke the Pits, the Perpendicularity there was Hoid's, and most other worldhoppers' usual way into the Physical Realm, so Hoid would likely have had relatively easy access to Atium. Since we have seen him use Allomancy, I presume that he has the power to use Atium. Is this how he knows things in advance? Does he have his own way to see into the Cognitive Realm? Brandon has stated that Hoid gives certain characters little pushes depending on what he thinks they need. He teases Adolin about his problems with ladies, and gives Kaladin a story or two. He wouldn't do these things based on nothing, would he? I speculate that Hoid has a (rudimentary) understanding about some possible futures in the Cosmere, and has been trying to position some or our friends into key spots to pick the future that he likes best, whatever that is. He also knows where and when to show up for key events. Jasnah's return, and Taln-not-Taln's return. And I think that he uses the mostly unknown aspects of Atium to do this. Discuss.

So, we've been having some recent Word of Brandons about how the sixteen base metals in Allomancy can be alloyed with any of the God Metals. So far to date, we have precisely one demonstrated use of one of these alloys, in Mistborn: Final Empire, Vin burns Malatium, an alloy of Atium and gold, and it allows her to see others' past selves. However, this power may be more revealing than we think- for ten of the allomantic metals, the "internal" and "external" powers vary wildly in how they work, and I think we can extrapolate for those metals what happens based on Malatium. My current theory is that alloying Atium with a base metal switches whether it is internal or external, and for most metals it does so without changing the nature of the power. For nine of the metals, this produces a predictable effect. For six of the metals, I expect this would give them a completely new power, as there's already a clean external or internal version of their existing power. Electrum doesn't seem to fit this theory very well as far as I can tell, which I will go into later. As a reminder, here are the base metals: Steel (Physical External Pushing) - Coinshot Iron (Physical External Pulling) - Lurcher Pewter (Physical Internal Pushing) - Thug Tin (Physical Internal Pulling) - Tineye Brass (Mental External Pushing) - Soother Zinc (Mental External Pulling) - Rioter Bronze (Mental Internal Pushing) - Seeker Copper (Mental Internal Pulling) - Smoker Nicrosil (Enhancement External Pushing) - Nicroburst Chromium (Enhancement External Pulling) - Leecher Duralumin (Enhancement Internal Pushing) - Gnat Aluminium (Enhancement Internal Pulling) - Gnat Bendalloy (Temporal External Pushing) - Slider Cadmium (Temporal External Pulling) - Pulser Electrum (Temporal Internal Pushing) - Oracle Gold (Temporal Internal Pulling) - Augur Here is what I expect their counterparts to do: Atium-Steel: Push on metals inside your own body Atium-Iron: Pull on metals inside your own body Atium-Pewter: Enhance others' physical abilities (by touching them? Or perhaps in a bubble?) Atium-Tin: Enhance others' senses Atium-Brass: Soothe your own emotions Atium-Zinc: Riot your own emotions Atium-Copper*: Smoke feruchemical pulses? Atium-Bronze*: Seek feruchemical pulses? Atium-enhancement metals: Absolutely no idea at this stage. Atium-Bendalloy: Speed up your own personal time (ie. no bubble) Atium-admium: Slow down your own personal time Atium-Electrum: See others' futures? Allow others to see their futures? Malatium: See others pasts (confirmed) Atium-iron and atium-steel would, if I'm correct, result in rather gnat-like powers for most Allomancers. (Those powers could maybe be useful for Kandra?) Atium-electrum seems to be a fault in the system, as base atium already allows the person burning the metal to see other people's futures. It's possible that Atium-electrum could allow other people to see their own futures, however then it diverges from Malatium for no good reason. It seems to be the biggest hole in this theory to me. I expect for the Atium enhancement metals and external Atium mental metals that as the existing powers either externalise and internalise very cleanly in the case of the enhancement quadrant, or externalise and internalise based on pulling/pushing in the mental quadrant, that these metals would display completely new powers instead, that vary on the exact same way as their base metals do. I'd guess that perhaps Atium allows copper and bronze to smoke and seek feruchemists, but I may be way off-base there. If I'm correct that alloying a base metal with Atium switches whether the metal is considered Internal or External, I suspect that alloying base metals with other god metals may have similar rotational effects on the chart of powers- so some might inverse Pulling and Pushing, and some might even rotate or flip the quadrants, turning a physical metal into a mental one, for instance. There are also other possibilities to what's going on. One is that there's a third trait to allomantic powers that's hidden within the table, and that all the enhancement metals have the same state for that trait, wheras all the physical and temporal metals vary based on whether they're internal or external, and that Atium alloys actually flip that trait. I'm not sure that's a cleaner explanation, personally, but thought it worth mentioning. Thoughts? Cleanup? Feedback? WoBs?

When I recently reread the Mistborn books, during the part with the atium stash, I wondered how much it would acutally have containted. After all, the Lord Ruler would have to burn it literally all the time in order to compound age storing, and not die of old age. Even if the Lord Ruler kept it on a very low burn most of the time (higher when there is anybody to see him) the speed at which atium burns means that he couldn't possibly need less than 10 beads per day. The prisoners in the pits of hathsin get one bead a week. This means that, simply to keep the Lord Ruler alive, there would have to be more than 70 prisoners on average. When Kelsier takes over the pits, he mentions that there are only a couple dozen guards [citation needed]. This means that there could not have been all that many prisoners. Combined with the fact that being sent there is extremely rare (the old guy in the first book had only seen it happen once), I'm thinking that the pits have an average of 100 prisoners at a time, each getting an average of one atium geode a week. With the Lord Ruler using ~70 of those beads and 10 going to the nobility, that leaves 20 going to the kandra each week. Remember, a lot of the atum the nobility gets goes to the kandra, so let's say that the kandra get 25 a week. With some quick math (and assuming that Scadrial has the same length year as Earth) we can conclude that the kandra's cache should have contained (roughly) 1.3 million atium beads. With that number, we no longer have to worry about it being too small an amount, but it could be too large. In the fight against the colos where the atium got burned up, there were about 200 atium mistings, plus Eland, and that they were fighting for roughly 3-5 hours straight. With each misting having to burn a total of 65000 beads, this means that each geode worth of atium would have to take roughly 3.6-6 minutes to burn. Sounds about right. And with that, we can conclude that if I was correct with my calculations, Brandon Sanderson likely was too.

Apologies in advance if this has been brought up before. I searched the forum, wiki and google for any derivative of the word 'Adonals' before posting this, so I am not sure if it has been mentioned. If so, please direct me to the appropriate place/WOBs. Appreciated. Alright, so recently I started reading Warbreaker again because I absolutely love Lightsong. When it got to the section with Hoid, Lightsong and Siri I was of course interested because this is my first re-read after having found the 17th Shard and learned theories of the Cosmere. After Hoid completed his history of Hallandren he said something I had not noticed before in reference to his storytelling/[Lightweaving]. "I learned it many, many years ago from a man who didn't know who he was, your Majesty. It was a distant place where two lands meet and gods have died." I thought about who that friend may have been, and of course my brain jumped to the biggest thing it possibly could, Adonalsium itself. This got me to think something; what if the biggest clue about Adonalsium right there in the name: -ium. Lerasium. Atium. Leras. Ati. Therefore, I believe Adonalsium is actually Adonals This fits right into how so many worlds in the Cosmere worship some other, greater god out there - and how often it does not seem like that would be Adonalsium Itself. So, the pieces of my theory fall thusly: 1) There is a greater power that has existed long before the creation of Adonalsium 2) A living being called Adonals found a way to steal/harvest/merge with energy of this higher power 3) Adonals became a physical embodiment of a portion of this power, taking the suffix '-ium' 4) When Adonalsium was shattered it caused the greater power to lose much of its ability to effect the Cosmere - while maintaining its sentience it can only act in very subtle ways And.... Sorry, don't really know exactly where I was going with this... I just don't recall ever having heard anything along these lines and I wanted to see what y'all have to say. I need to go to my university now for some paperwork, and I will try to flesh out this theory in my head a little better while I am gone. Thanks for listening to my ramblings.

This theory is a sort of Version 2.0 of an earlier theory of mine about the god metals. Here I will start from similar premises as before, but will have significantly (though not completely) different conclusions. You may find the old theory thread here. Table of Contents Introduction Part I: Atium Part II: Lerasium Part III: Harmonium??? Appendix A: Possible Flaws in the Theory Appendix B: TL;DR (Possible future Appendix C: God Metal Alloys) Introduction The basic premise of my big theory is this: The two god metals Atium and Lerasium have physical patterns identical to real world metals. My main evidence for it is this WoB: The Allomantic effect of burning a specific metal depends on both its molecular structure and the source of Invested power. Therefore I think it's easy to conclude that atium as well as lerasium, being Allomantic metals themselves, both have molecular structure. Even if they are, in Brandon's words, "fragments of a god". You can also think of it this way: Since Atium and Lerasium can be alloyed with real world metals, they should be present enough in the Physical Realm for the alloying process to occur. This implies that they have apparent physical properties like being metallic, being able to melt at a certain temperature, etc., properties that can be analyzed scientifically and compared to real world substances. It should therefore be possible for a Scadrian with sufficient scientific knowledge and resources to determine which elements, compounds, or alloys these god metals most closely resemble in terms of molecular structure. What will our hypothetical Scadrian scientist discover after analyzing the god metals? Obviously, only Brandon can answer that question definitively (someone should try asking him that one of these days). But what else is a Cosmere theorist like me to do but to speculate? So, let us speculate, shall we? I believe our scientist will find atium and lerasium to have molecular structures that are very similar (if not virtually identical) to two particular metals that we've already encountered in the Mistborn series. Through the following posts I'll show what I believe those two metals are.

So, I noticed that one sixteenth of the mistfallen were atium burners. This doesn't make sense, since that would mean the other, normal sixteen metals have a statistically lower number. So what if electrum burners (electrum having the altered effect of atium) can also burn atium, they just don't know it because there is no more atium?

So, I was reading the AMA again and thinking about God Metals, and something Brandon said (basically that our understanding of the god metals has some holes in it) got me thinking about how atium works. We know that Lerasium can be used by both allomancers and non-allomancers, but in different ways. Non-allomancers do not need the ability to burn metals in order to tap the fraction of Preservation's power held in the Lerasium. Now let's turn to atium. To paraphrase what another user (mooglefrooglian) said on Reddit, Allomancy is required in order to burn atium--the burner either needs to be a seer or a Mistborn. It makes sense that a normal person swallowing atium is unable to use it like a person swallowing Lerasium is able to tap into its power, because swallowing and burning metals is part of allomancy, a magic system that is of Preservation, not Ruin. So, if used hemalurgically, is it possible that atium would not need to be charged, just like Lerasium does not need to be burned in order to grant allomancy? If this is the case, it could be that hemalurgic atium, like allomantic Lerasium, has more than one effect, depending on whether it is used within the magic system (with sacrifices, blood, and the whole works) or if it is just made to pierce the skin. The one hole in this theory is Shardic intent. It makes sense that Preservation's power can be given to anyone, since Preservation's intent is to preserve as much as possible. Ruin's intent is subtractive--compelling the holder to destroy and reduce things to smaller and smaller pieces. Hemalurgy requires sacrifice because it suits ruin's intent to concentrate power in the hands of fewer individuals. So, allowing for potential hemalurgists to gain power without sacrifice by using uncharged atium would be contrary to Ruin's intent. The only ways around this hurdle that I see are a) that the effect of using uncharged atium for hemalurgy does something that suits Ruin's intent in the same way that creating Mistborn fits with Preservation's intent, or b ) that utilizing the god metals outside of the magic systems allows the user to tap into a fraction of the shard's power, regardless of intent. Personally, I like option A better, but what do you guys think? Thanks for tolerating my musings .

This theory is based on a http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/3901-feruchemical-puzzles/?p=61844'>post I made in the Feruchemical Puzzles thread. So, atium is part of the body of Ruin and lerasium is part of the body of Preservation. Allomancy is of Preservation, hemalurgy is of Ruin and feruchemy is a combination of the two. If lerasium is burned (either pure or as an alloy), the burner becomes an allomancer of some kind. Mistborn if pure, misting if alloyed. A hemalurgic spike made of atium can steal any single power from someone with that power (in a messy and usually fatal manner). It has frequently been theorized as to additional effects of burning atium or burning an alloy of atium and lerasium (i.e., such as becoming a feruchemist). However, burning metals is an allomancy thing. So I don't think that burning would be a part of gaining any investiture except for allomancy. Alternatively, I posit that each god metal is universal for the metallic art of the associated shard. In other words, lerasium is universal for allomancy in that if burned in it's pure form, one becomes a full powered mistborn. Atium is hemalurgically universal in that it can be used to steal any power (not limited to allomancy and feruchemy). But what about Feruchemy? I also posit that an alloy of atium and lerasium (likely 50/50 or something close to that) acts as a universal metalmind (i.e., any attribute may be stored within it). So, to point out an area for speculation, one may become an allomancer by burning lerasium (no use of other arts to do so) and anyone can hemalurgically spike someone as per http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/3941-spocon-report/?p=62356'>WoB. Again, what about feruchemy? How can someone gain access to feruchemy without the genetic heritage (feruchemist bloodline) and without using any other arts (i.e., no spiking)? Or rather, since allomancy and hemalurgy are both in some way universally accessible, in what manner may feruchemy be universally accessible also?

I'm still in the process of reading the series, so no spoilers, please! I was just going through the metals, thinking about the best/worst metal to be a misting with. Naturally, I eventually made it to gold, but I can't recall anyone saying if or if not someone could be a misting of a high metal. Sorry if this is answered later on in the book, but I don't have as much time to read as I'd like, making progress slow.

Spoilers for TFE, mild spoilers for AoL. The Lord Ruler routinely spent time being an old man in his little hut, presumably spinning cheerfully on his swivel chair or something. He did this to store youth, and chances are that he didn't continuously compound atium because it burns insanely fast. What I was wondering was, why couldn't this just be replaced with gold compounding, for more-or-less the same effect? Gold burns much more slowly, so he could keep it up pretty much continuously. (The way Miles is discussed in AoL - and the way gold compounding seems to work, in generating more health that you can then continuously store away - it suggests that he doesn't need to spend time being sickly in order to store health.) His need for it also wouldn't increase as he got older, which would be a really big plus. I'm pretty sure that being in permanent good health would be enough to make Rashek look like a young man forever. Healthy skin does not wrinkle. Healthy bones do not bow under the weight of your body. Healthy hair follicles do not produce white hair. In fact, healthy teeth probably don't even yellow. Everything beyond that is down to his mannerisms and style of dress, so he could easily present himself as a twenty-something-year-old. He wouldn't die of any age-related illnesses, either. Shouldn't that make him sufficiently immortal? The best explanations I can think of are: - Gold compounding does not reduce signs of aging, because wrinkles and stuff aren't considered health problems. (Which would be weird, because they're caused by organs functioning less and less well.) - On Scadrial, "old age" is an actual literal thing that you can die of. (Which would make it a type of illness, which would mean that gold compounding should heal it from you?) - Age is some kind of spiritweb thing (not clear on the details) that somehow inherently affects you on a plane where gold compounding can't fix the problems that it causes. (Which would need to be worked out in further detail before it can really be used to explain anything.) - The Lord Ruler actually made a big mistake in starting to compound atium, and he kept it up because stopping compounding is an even worse idea. (Probably the most plausible explanation on this list, IMO.) What do you all think?

The Competition Sign Ups for Mid-Range Game 6: A Venture in Atium “Today, my friends, I toast to the rise of House Venture!” Lord Venture raised his cup full of wine high in the air. The minor houses invited raised their own in toast as well. “And one of your own houses too.” That got them interested, especially the Great Houses who disguised themselves as part of the crowd. The invitations sent out had said Minor houses only, but it seemed a perfect time to commit a sabotage that would bring down the new Great House. They didn’t want more competition. They were satisfied with how things had been before the rise of Venture. Many of the minor houses whispered to their fellow house members. What in the Lord Ruler’s name does Lord Venture mean? Many thought. One person-or was it- shrugged. They seemed uninterested as they stirred their drink. Bored. They weren’t here for Venture. “Yes, I know what you are thinking. What do I mean?” Lord Venture chuckled at their responses. “Many of you might be wondering of my new particularly… suspicious source of riches.” More nods and more whispers. “Maybe some of you have come here planning to rob me of it.” He looked through the crowd pointedly and some shied away from the gaze. Some leaned in and others yet acted as if they had no idea what he was talking about. They were all dangerous, no matter what their mask was. No matter who they pretended to be, they were all the same at heart: Politicians. “Some of you may eye my house as a competitor.” The Great House spies knew what he was talking about. “Some of you care nothing for me.” The mysterious figure shrugged. “But you all want my atium.” That made a stir in the crowd. Atium? Did he say atium? “There is many of you here who wish me ill. For both of our protections, I offer you a deal. The biggest of your houses when all of those who wish my wealth enough to lie...” Lord Venture trailed off and looked intensely at each and every one of the nobles in the crowd. “When all of those who want my new wealth enough to kill for are dead themselves, I shall take the largest surviving house into mine.” “Dead?” That caused uproar among the crowd. “Become a Great House ourselves?” Some of the Great House spies looked confidently at one another. We will not fail. This atium will be ours and ours alone. All of these minor houses will lose their heads and lose their money. If it happens at a Venture ball then Venture will take the blame. “I suggest the benefit of an alliance.” Said the Urbain spy, sliding into the seat besides an Elariel one. They pretended they didn’t recognize each other, but they both knew what each other was. “An alliance?” The Elariel spy looked at the Urbain one and smiled. “Sounds intriguing. Tell me more.” Rules: 24 hour cycles. See Tin under Roles for PM rules. Every other player may choose to write an anonymous message to be revealed in the writeup. The next cycle, the players who did not write a message before take a turn to. Example: Cycle 1, X sends a message and Y does not. Cycle 2, Y sends a message and X does not. No images or links. Use your best judgement on length. If they get too long, I'll impose a word limit. Eliminators get a doc to conspire in. Victory Conditions: Alignments Minor House: Your house is very small. However, opportunity has come your way. If you can help root who’s spying on Venture for the other Great Houses, Venture might just bring you into their fold. Primary Victory Condition: Eliminate all Great House Spies. Secondary Victory Condition: Finish the game as the largest minor house. Great House Spies: You have been ordered to discover the secret to how House Venture suddenly rose to power. You and your fellows have infiltrated some of the minor houses that have been pandering to House Venture. You are to gather information through any means necessary, even if it means toppling a few minor houses. Primary Victory Condition: Eliminate Outnumber the members of all the Minor Houses. Order of Actions Day- Brass-Zinc-Lynch Night- Items - Tin - Pewter - Copper - Atium - Iron - Steel- Skaa Kill - Great House Kill - Bronze - Inquisitor Kill You can take two action. The anonymous message does not count as an action. Only one can be a metal. Roles Mistborn- A Mistborn may burn one of any of the metals below. They must chose one metal per turn and cannot use the same metal two times in a row. Steel- A Coinshot/Mistborn may burn steel to kill a different player. If that player coincidentally is also a Coinshot/Mistborn and targets you for death as well, neither player dies. Iron- A Lurcher or Mistborn may burn iron to save a different player from death. If that player is a Coinshot/Mistborn and targets someone for death, the kill is cancelled as well as the Coinshot/Mistborn being saved. Is only a nighttime ability and cannot save from lynch. You cannot Lurch yourself. This means that if X Lurches Y, any kill actions that Y attempts fail but he is protected from one kill. Pewter- Your pewter enhanced muscles prevent you from dying from the first time you would die. This is the only role that will let you live through a lynch. Tin- If the tineye is alive, any player can request that a message be given to another player through the GM. If the Tineye/Mistborn burning tin who is given that particular message decides to let it through, the GM tells the player what it is. However, the Tineye/Mistborn burning tin may opt to modify the message slightly. Bronze- You may burn bronze to discover another player’s role. It only shows if they are an allomancer and which metal they’re burning. The same result will show up if they’re being Smoked, don’t have allomancy, or are not using it. Copper- You may hide your and anyone else’s allomancy. Zinc- You may change one person’s vote, deleting your own. Brass- You may delete one person’s vote. Atium- May only be burned by a Mistborn. Will let you survive all attacks on a night cycle. Special Roles (may be included or not) Kandra- You may decide to eat a person who dies the cycle before. You are not told which options you will have. You will be told any messages the tineye has allowed them and then discovered. Whoever owns your Contract will be told whatever info you gain. You start as the Venture’s contract. If the Venture is killed, your Contract will be given to the person with the highest amount of atium. You will be told the owner of your Contract. They will be told what information you get but not you. You can survive one kill, including the lynch. Your alignment is the same as the owner of your Contract at the end of the game. Victory Condition: Whichever your owner has. Venture- You are a member of the House Venture and have the force of the Great House on your side. You start with two atium and the Contract to the kandra. Victory Condition: Kill all the Great House Spies Skaa- You don’t like any of these nobles! You just want to kill as many of them as you can before you’re discovered and lynched. You may kill once each night and you have the ability to escape from one kill except the Inquisitor’s. You may not use atium in any way. You cannot kill the Inquisitor. Victory Condition: Kill all nobles. Inquisitor- You don’t really care about any of the petty noble problems. Your only issue is the Skaa. You may kill once each night. If you kill a noble, it doesn’t matter. Victory Condition: Kill the skaa. Atium Atium is a valuable resource. Many will kill for it. During a night cycle, a player with a role may give up the option to use their action (and disable an extra life) in exchange for 1 piece of atium. Or, in the day cycle, the option to vote. Each cycle 1 piece of atium is available. Atium may be used to: Burn, for a Mistborn. Bribe someone to change their vote (the other player will receive one atium) Bribe someone to not take an action (the other player will receive two atium. Does not affect vanillas, with or without items) Buy an item Give to someone else (you can chose how much) X amount of items will be up for purchase for x amount of atium in day cycles. See Items for more details. Items Dueling Cane (1 atium) - Will kill one player before shattering. Poison (1 atium) - May be used to poison one player. They will die when you die. Marriage Contract (3 atium) - Join two Minor Houses together and turn them into one secondary goal wise. (see Houses) Will not effect a Great House Spy’s victory condition, they will simply be added into the Google Doc. The Minor House who offered the contract’s House Doc will be the newly joined one. The Great House Spies may not purchase a Marriage Contract but it may be used on them. Extra Metal Vials (4 atium) - Mistborn may burn the same metal twice in a row, but only twice. You can buy one item one cycle. You must wait until the next cycle to use it. If you have already used it and it isn't a passive effect (like Extra Metal Vials) then your killer doesn't get it. If it is passive or you haven't used it, your killer gets it. Houses There will be multiple Minor Houses. They may have two or three members. Each Minor House will have a Google Doc to share. A Marriage Contract will bring one Minor House into another’s. Each Minor House has a secondary victory condition, to be the largest at the end of the game. Marriage Contracts make the two houses one and their joint Victory Condition. Write ups:

We don't know much about Atium and Lerasium. Theory states that if someone who is already Mistborn burns Lerasium, it will have a different effect. Also, there are supposed to be unknown alloys of both metals that may, in theory, work for a Mistborn, like Malatium. Thoughts?

The books give us very little in the way of information on Allomantic Savants, but ever since first reading the second book years ago, i've been fascinated by the implications. Does anyone know if Sanderson has given any hints about Savants other than tineyes? Could a misting reach duralumin boosted levels with their allomancy? Could an Atium misting with a mountain of atium theoretically gain true future sight from atium as Elend did via duralumin There's so much unexplored territory with the savants.

I just went to a book signing with Brandon Sanderson, and I asked him the following questions. I think you'll find his answers interesting. Me: Did any kandra survive the end of Hero of Ages? Brandon: Yes. M: Are there any kandra on Roshar? B: Yes. M: Is Axies one of them? B: No, but good guess. The Aimians are a different race. M: Did any Atium survive the Hero of Ages? B: Yes. M: We know that Hoid has a bead of Lerasium. Does he have any atium? B: He has access to atium, yes. M: Does Hoid use his feruchemical abilities with the atium to see the future? B: Ah ah ah, I haven't confirmed that Hoid had feruchemical abilities. M: You haven't? B: No, but most people think he has allomancy. (He grinned slyly when he said that, which may or may not be a red herring. You really can't tell with him.) M: Do Axies's and Jasnah's reversed shadows have a common source? B: Yes. M: Does it have anything to do with its draw towards Investiture? B: (After a pause) It has more to do with Shadesmar than Investiture. M: What does Investiture look like in the Spiritual Realm? B: Er, I haven't said anything about that yet. M: But is it important? B: Yes, it's important. M: Could you say that it looks anything like mist? B: Well you could say that it looks anything like mist. (He smiled here as well, but I think it was just because he was teasing me) M: Can you give me a hint about the Parshendi gods? It can't be Odium, right? Because it's plural... B: No, it's not Odium. The Parshendi gods... (he paused here for a while) are closer to what the humans would call "Heralds." There you guys go. I tried my best to remember his exact wording, but I may have gotten a couple words off. I wrote it down a few minutes after I talked to him. Good luck theorizing!

Okay, so with a Word of Bradon, we know that there is a third god metal. So, Harmonium. What is it, what does it do? Obviously we can't know these questions until a book comes out, but I think we can make some guesses and extrapolate from prior knowledge that we have. One thing to note is that the other two god metals contained the name of the Shardholder, not the name of the Shard's Intent. If there is Ati-um and Leras-ium, why is this metal not called Sazed-ium? Is it due to him holding both Shard's, or is there actually multiple god metals that we will see? So, what do the metal(s) do, or more acurately, what ideas do we have for what it could be. I don't think that I am correct, but I could see them having to with Feruchemy. Maybe the god alloy and its alloy can force Feruchemists to store or tap their metalminds. Again, I am pretty sure that this is not correct, but I think it would be cool. What ideas do people have about Harmonium and possible Sazedium?

So we know a slave in Pits of Hatsin were executed if they didn't bring up a geode a day. This presumedly went on for a thousand years. If only one slave was used a day you still have 365 000 geodes. This means that each of Team Elend needed to burn ~1000 of them and multiply it per the number of slaves working the Pits. This doesn't seem possible.

How exactly did the Lord Ruler's compounding system work? I didn't fully understand it after reading Sazed's explanation at the end of The Final Empire. Supposedly his atium compounding was stopped after Vin removed his bracers, but doesn't he have to burn Feruchemically charged atium for it to work? Wouldn't that mean he would be perfectly fine without the bracers, so long as he didn't run out of his metal reserve? If that is the case, do the bracers only serve the function of storing age, then being filed into ingestible metal to be burned? Perhaps I just don't understand the logistics of compounding well enough. Please, relieve me of my ignorance.

So, from what I can piece together... The god metals result from a body breaking apart from the sheer power of a Shard, and they form the following: Gas/Spirit Aspect - The willpower and consciousness of the holder, able to be anywhere the atmosphere can spread. Liquid/Cognitive Aspect - The subconscious and full skill potential of the holder, absorbed easier than water into a human. Solid/Physical Aspect - The limited, but usable raw material of the holder, in handy bead form. The ways each of these replenish are rather interesting. The Well of Ascension, for instance. (Please, don't be shy about goofs or overreaching speculation - if I'm wrong, I'm wrong) Magnetic North itself, right? And it was a plug on top of Ruin's spirit aspect, hence Ruin's body had to dribble out through the ground. Why did Preservation collect as a liquid and Ruin as a solid? Why are beads of lerasium bare and atium inside large geodes? Did Preservation merge with the planet's crust? My theory, yes. The geodes are a protective layer against mutual annihilation of both elements. A magnetic north lerasium well and magnetic south atium well don't quite make sense, as Ruin's mind would not be trapped by the Well. But this may have been the original balance of the planet. The whole thing has so many what-ifs and RAFOs it can make your head spin. But this raises the curious possibility of what the south polers may have been doing when faced with the scientific curiosity of a world where the north and south poles may have both been on the opposite side of the planet.