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A large group, not a majority but quite a few people, seem to have an issue with Kaladin's attitude in WoR. Yes, he has a chip the size of a boulder on his shoulder. Yes, he is down right rude to most lighteyes, though to be fair this happened more often after Amaram arrived on the shattered plains. Yes, he has paranoid illogical fears. And you know what, thank goodness. If he didn't he wouldn't be human. He would be a perfect Gary Stu character. Kaladin has just spent a year being destroyed as a human being and being broken for the second time in his life. The first time happened when he lost his brother and he still isn't over that event. Maybe that will be his character arc in book 3. Anyway, if Kaladin were happy it wouldn't be realistic. If he believed wholeheartedly in Dalinar and Adolin it would seem fake. TWoKs was about Kaladin discovering he wasn't powerless and did have control over his life. He only somewhat trusted Dalinar because of one unusual event and Syl's word. In fact I think Syl's opinion of Dalinar had far more to do with Kaladin's choice to put his livelihood in Dalinar's hands. WoR is about him learning to trust again and learning how his choices effect him. And he came through his issues in about two months. People who have been through trauma like his can take years to come to the place he did by the end of WoR. Also, he was aware he wasn't thinking and acting right. He admitted to himself and Syl several times throughout the book. Knowing you have a problem is only the first step in working through it. It took exposure to the Kholins and Shallan to realize how wrong he was about lighteyes in general and that someone with lighteyes could be trusted. This was a really important lesson to learn before he became one himself. Further he needed to trust that his power would not be taken from him again before he could be the poster boy for the KR. Dalinar might be the leader, but he will be in the background. Kaladin will be the champion leading the charge and he will be the face of the Radiants to Roshar. The man at the end of TWoKs or at the beginning of WoR could not have filled that role. Kaladin had already been in that role before when he was Kaladin Stormblessed, the youngest and most celebrated squadleader in Amaram's army. He was already a rising star and then he lost it all. Of course he would believe that it all could be taken from him. All his power was taken from him before. I think that is the reason most of Bridge Four adjusted to freedom better than he did. This new life in Dalinar's army was a first for them and they had Kaladin to protect them. Kaladin didn't have anyone to protect him accept Dalinar and he wasn't completely sure about Dalinar. I was so shocked when Kaladin told Dalinar about Amaram's betrayal. The fact that Kaladin did so was very brave and showed that he was trying. So that's my opinion on Kaladin's attitude in this book. I do hope this is the most angst we get from Kal for the rest of the series. He came a long way in WoR and I found the journey compelling and believable. But if you disagree I would love to discuss it.

So, just thought I would bring up this post to discuss the secret groups throughout Roshar. List of Groups - and Members: The Sons of Honor (Reference Page 1060) Gavilar (deceased) Restares (Leader?) Amaram Ghostbloods Thaidakar (Possibly leader?) Kabsul (deceased) Lin Davar (deceased) Luesh (deceased) Mraise Iyatil Veil (Shallan) The Diagram (Reference Page 905) Taravangian Mrall Adrotagia Dova (runs the Silent Gatherers) Graves Danlan Moash (newest member) Shin Shamanate Szeth (Former member - was truthless - now a Skybreaker in training) Possibly extinct group: Envisagers Please let me know if I'm missing any members and I will update the main list. Also, we should discuss their goals and motives - to get a better idea of what's going on. *EDIT* Some formatting issues.

I was surprised the first person Kaladin confided in completely was Dalinar. He did mention to Moash that Amaram was the one the enslaved him, but I think Dalinar is the only one he gave the specifics to. Dalinar's reaction did not surprise me. He barely knew Kaladin and Amaram had been a close friend for many years. The fact that he listened as he did at all and did look into the story is admirable. And what Dalinar learned, from seventeen liars, was also to be expected. However, when did Dalinar decide to test Amaram? He didn't bond the Shardblade until Kaladin was in prison. Just before Kaladin went to prison he told he that he was wrong about Amaram, but while Kaladin was in prison he admitted that he understood why Kaladin did what he did. Also, if he had doubts about Amaram's innocence before the disadvantaged duel why did he make him a Knights Radiant. As unwise as Kaladin's choice was to ask do duel Amaram after Adolin's duel, if hadn't done it would Dalinar have continued to investigate Amaram?

Suffering changes a person's appearance. This link shows examples of the effect war leaves on soldiers' faces. Kaladin has been to Damnation and back, suffering nearly two years of physical, emotional, and mental torment as a slave. He is aware that he is broken inside and considers the man he was in Amaram's army dead. I'm sure he doesn't look like that man anymore either, even if you don't consider the scars. Also, Amaram has been busy doing important stuff. He might spare a thought now and then for the man whose life he destroyed, but considering all the pressure he is under I doubts he allows himself to dwell on that unfortunate squadleader for long. Do you think Amaram will recognize Kaladin when he sees him again? I have my doubts that he will, unless he talks with Kaladin for more than a few minutes. It's possible Amaram may not recognize Kaladin at all unless Kal reminds him.

Does anyone else feel that there is a potential problem with Dalinar and Amaram's particular friendship ? Amaram is a vassal of Sadeas; Sadeas and Dalinar aren't on particularly good terms now, so Amaram must be significantly conflicted. Any forces he brings will reinforce Sadeas, plus he adds a second (after now Sadeas himself) full shard-bearer to Sadeas' warcamp. In the event of any conflict between Sadeas and Dalinar, he's going to have a serious problem resolving his loyalties is he not ? And he must indeed be the subject of considerable suspicion from Sadeas as well, can't be an easy position for him.

We know that Amaram is going to make an appearance in WoR and given the significant history between him and Kaladin, there are sure to be sparks. The main question I want to put to the assembled is this: How will the Amaram / Kaladin story line play out, in your opinion? Redemption for Amaram? Kaladin giving up his hatred? Amaram dead at Kaladin's feet? Kaladin dead at Amaram's feet? Dalinar dead in the cross fire? Something else? For me, the resolution I think I would find most satisfying is that Kaladin ends up having to choose between his Vengeance and his Honor in a very litteral sense. I think he will have the opportunity to either protect Amaram again (and save his life) or to let him die / kill him / get revenge. I think / hope Kaladin will choose honor and so let go of hatred (jedi style). For Amaram, I think it will turn out that he has been doing things with the shards that have helped the cause of the 'good guys' a lot and so bring into play the question of whether the ends justify the means. Whether he comes to any kind of change of heart or not... I do not know. I do not think we will see any kind of fight between Kaladin and Amaram, it will all be words and politics. So what do you peeps think?

Ever since Kaladin won his freedom in book one, I have fantasized about how he might get justice, or vengeance, against Amaram. Some members on other threads have suggested Dalinar will help Kaladin punish Amaram. Dalinar, if he survives long enough, will learn what happened, but when and how? Will it even be in WOR, or a later book? What do you think?