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Just short post that I wanted to make about how I see/think Intent comes into play with the Metallic Arts.The most clear one that's on the Coppermind, I think, is really cool how you have to have some amount of Intent to want to get better or how Compounding works. But I felt like this didn't show much in the way of Intent being put in a really active way. So, how I see it is that (and I'm pretty sure it's a common interpretation) Intent is required to burn, flare, tap, and store. Since we see stuff like Kelsier teaching Vin that she has to intend to reach in and use that well of power she has inside when she first figures it. And plus, we never actually see any mechanical action that causes Allomancy and Feruchemy to work. It's just "I'm gonna use this" then it works (given they have metals to use, obviously.) Then we also see Wax needing only the mental intention to "make a steel bubble" and not "push on this." I'm sure there's a bunch of other examples. Anyway, short post over! ^v^ I just wanted to throw this out here since though I hear people agree sometimes, I don't hear it talked about or mentioned. (AFAIK, at least, so I'd love to hear some WoB or something I might not have seen!)

If this has been posted before i apologise ive been looking through the mechanics of investure (specifically for allomancy) and i saw something that mentioned the term 'inate investure'. This leads me to believe that investure levels can be changed to a great degree (what are shards if not humans that have so high an investure level that they are no longer human?) looking into nicrosil compounding (apologies if i keep misspelling that word) i realised that you can create (and if not create tap the spiritual realm far more than anyone else for a certain period of time like dalinar openning a perpendicularity, but inside you for a certain period of time) investure (burning metalminds releases 10x the attribute inside of it). if a mistborn (lerasium for the sake of argument) was a nircosil ferring before hand (or got a spike for f!nircosil), they can create a ridiculous amount of investure and store it now the question. if one taps that investure, then burns a metal, are they increasing their investure levels? and by extension, correct me if im wrong, but they are now way stronger than a normal person burning a metal because they have that much investure running through them? by extension again, did the origional mistborns have a way bigger amount of investure in them than the mistborns in the final empire, and hence why they are so much stronger? sorry if these are obvious conclusions, my grasp of investure mechanics isnt as good as id like to believe

So Ive been into the cosmere for a while and have been searching the forums for this but I can't find any answers. Savantism is the end result of overflaring metals too often and damaging the spiritweb as a result yes? Questions are: How exactly does it damage the spiritweb? How does savantism itself occur in relation to preservations power and the metals as a conduit when burning? How long does it take to become a savant? Those are a few I thought up. New here, hope this piques someone's interest

Like the title says. Despite what you may think about the coolness of each magic system, Ferring names are way cooler than Misting names. I mean Skimmer, Sentry, Bloodmaker, Trueself. I could name a dozen more Compare that to Allomancy. Coin shot, Lurcher, Soother, Rioter? Those are objectively more lame. Change my mind. (I could make this a meme)

The thin black haired man sat watching the boy in the school yard from across the street, pondering why he was so glum. He stood and sauntered across the dusty street toward the boy. When the boy looked up he smiled and greeted him. The man asked the boy "why so glum my boy?" The boy responded "its my metal birthday." "Well that doesn't make sense" the stranger said. The Boy said "everyone expects me to discover my metal tonight, but I just know I will fail. All the others say so because no one has seen a hint of what it is." The man said "here let me give you a present for you birthday. If none of the metals they give you work at least these will make you feel a little better. From where I was sitting I could see you have a lot of potential so long as you stay your true self." Then he handed the boy a pair of silvery bracers and a bag of powdery metal. "Now don't lose these or sell them because they are worth more than money can buy to you." "Who are you?" the boy asked. The man answered "just a man blown like Dust before the wind." After school the boy went home for his metal party. When he walked in the door his Father noticed the bracers and asked "Kagi, where did you get those?" "A man at the school gave them and this bag to me so I wouldn't be sad if nothing works at my metal party." He answered. Now a metal party is a Terris tradition where the child is exposed to various alloys to see if they have any metal talents. They try to store attributes in the metals and see if they can burn any metals. Many parents can only afford the most common metals for the party so sometimes it may be years before a child discovers their metal art. Kagi's father was a poor potter so was in that situation himself. So when he saw the silvery metal he thought to himself if the metals I obtained don't work we will try those and if they don't work selling some of that metal will enable me to get some of the more expensive metals to try. At his look Kagi asked "was it bad to let the man give me these for my birthday?" "No Son. I think those might be lucky metals. What was the man's name?" the Boys father asked. Kagi answered "he said he was dust." His father said "lets get ready for the party." Later that evening the guests were all gathered around the table after the cake and the games looking at a row of metals and dust set out for the metal ceremony. One by one Kagi tried on the bracers and tried to store attributes followed by swallowing a small amount of metal dust and trying to burn it. There were eight on the table. First Kagi tried Iron with no success, then came steel, tin, and pewter with no results. The next four, zinc, brass, copper, and bronze also failed to work for him. Finally his father took out the silvery bracers and dust saying try these. The guests stared in disbelief. One man asked how they could afford it and Kagi's father said a stranger gave it to them that day. Kagi put on the bracers and concentrated then his eyes went wide. He said "I feel a hole inside them." When he swallowed some of the dust his he gasped and said I feel something burning inside me. The crowd cheered. One of the old men said you have a rare gift and one not normally discovered since aluminum is very expensive so be sparing with it. Then one of the youths jeered yeah old man but it is also useless since it doesn't do anything. Over the next hour as people filed out to go home they debated. Finally once they were all gone his father told Kagi never to take off the bracers and to always be ready to swallow the dust if someone tried to take it. Keep the bracers covered in public and they painted them with his acrylics to hide the material explaining that they were very valuable so bad people might covet them.

Just wanted to point out that Allomantic Steel and Iron function similarly to Conjoiners and Reversers. Allomancer burns the metal -> Blue lines (Connections) appear -> Allomancer pushes or pulls on a line -> Force (generated by Preservations power) is transferred through the line, making the object move. A Conjoiner (a reverser) is created -> A Connection between the two halves exists but is not visible by the naked eye -> The halves are conjoined, the Connection snaps in place -> Conjoined halves behave as a single object, effectively allowing to transfer force. There is no real point to this, except that using Connection manipulation, a trapped spren, and some Stormlight Bondsmiths can practically do telekinesis.

I have a theory of how the FTL would work in the Cosmere, and just wish to share my idea here to see what others think about it. This was found in FanX Spring 2019 (April 19, 2019), for those of you wondering. Now, the Alcubierre Drive functions through the creation of a Spacetime Topology which has space compressed on one end of the ship, and expanded on the other. This works in accordance and does not break Einstein's Field Equations. It is very complicated, so I will not go fully into how they are thought to operate in the real world, but you should already be seeing where I am going. Allomantic Cadmium and Bendalloy both are able to, in a localized area, expand and contract time. This is notable, due to the fact that Space and Time, in General Relativity and other fields, are fundamentally interchangeable. Which leaves on to question if it is theoretically possible that a skilled Allomancer could apply the effects of these Metals to Space instead of Time. Therefore causing Space itself to expand and contract like they do to Time. This would be able to create an effect nearly identical to the Alcubierre Drive, creating a very similar Spacetime Topology. This could be done through some sort of automated, mechanical Allomancy, and mix this with Duralumin and one could further intensify the degree of warping which occurs. This would allow one to go, essentially, faster than light, while remaining in adherence to the Laws of General Relativity on a local scale. This does require negative energy, or a infeasible amount of energy. But this can easily be overcome with Cadmium and Bendalloy being used to bring about the proper curvature and topology. Now, one of the major issues with the idea of this, is heat and energy production with the warping, These show that the Warp Drive would likely produce large amounts of heat, but, theoretically, a skilled Feruchemist could find a way to take this heat production and store it in metals in order to help the people within it not perish due to the heat production. Like with the Warp Bubbles, this could also possibly use some form of automated feruchemy, if something of that sort is ever discovered in the future. This fits with the knowledge Sanderson has of Warp Drives, theoretically can be done with Allomancy, and also does not violate causality, which is an issue Sanderson was aware of with FTL Travel, Further support is in how the Time Bubbles are called as they are, as the are close to the term "Warp Bubble", and the shimmering border and how everything that passes through it being disturbed does fit with the idea of a topological defect like that formed by a Warp Drive. Which, while not significant backing, does help support my point. This does have the issue of assuming it can warp space, but according to physics it should be able to. This does also fit with the idea of Sanderson saying that FTL Allomancy uses concepts and uses of the Metallic Arts we are not familiar with yet, this, I believe, could be in reference to Spatial Manipulation. As he did imply that the Tables are only human ideas of how they are organized rather than some kind of Rule. So it is possible that Cadmium and Bendalloy are not purely temporal. So, what do you think of this theory? Does it sound plausible?

I may have stumbled into the beginnings of something much bigger than I anticipated. It was an easy enough matter to get started; I posed a set of statements and a question to myself. "It's becoming increasingly clear that color and metal are important fundamentals of the Cosmere because of Fabrials, Awakening, and the Metallic Arts. Color is important because it's a property of specific wavelengths of light, particular "tones" of light. So how is Metal going to relate to that?" From there, I hit upon a couple possibilities. But I think the one most worth going into detail about connects Investiture to my favorite weird physics, that's right everyone, quantum mechanics. It's my current hypothesis that metallic atoms have the proper frequency of quantum wavefunction to "filter" different frequencies of Investiture. This results in the strange supernatural "theming" of the metals across the metallic arts and even extending into the cages of Fabrials, where color and tone have already been proven abundantly needed. Picture "background investiture" as white noise. Now picture, say... Tin atoms in a pure, undisturbed lattice. Now recall that according to quantum mechanics, all particles also behave like waves (this has even been observed with molecules made of tens of carbon atoms still producing an interference pattern (even when released 1 at a time) in the famous double-slit experiment). The frequency of Tin's quantum wavefunction will interfere constructively with some frequencies of background investiture, and destructively interfere with others, filtering the output of the investiture into a new set of frequencies that don't look like background noise, the frequencies become a stream of investiture that "enhances senses", or something thereabouts. Now picture using a specific Shard's Investiture as the "background investiture". Tin will filter out everything of that shard that doesn't relate to senses, causing the amplification. Stormlight becomes a booster of the spren's sensitivity, making them output less for the same subjective feeling, while Tineyes get to see through the Mists because the frequencies overlap due to the Investiture originating with Preservation. And of course, with alloys, what's important is the "holes" in the atomic lattice (and indeed, metallic atoms' ability to arrange in a regular structure is key in general). It lets other frequencies of investiture leak through, which correspond to different effects. Tin's senses becomes Pewter's physical enhancement. The one thing I'm not certain on is where in Allomancy the push/pull difference originates from precisely. Is it just a rule that Bronze seeking hears pure metal tones as "pulling" while alloyed tones become "pushing"? Or is it a fundemental, even a Singer would hear tin as pulling, while pewter pushes? I'd love to hear feedback on all of this in general. I'm super curious to know if my "quantum wavefunctions filter Investiture frequencies" hypothesis makes any sense.

I read an almost essay length answer about speed feruchemy a while ago, which covered a well written theory on how speed worked. They said it was slowing down the time it took to perform actions (speed=distance÷time). When bleeder uses speed, she's seen as a blur Of course we know another thing that makes speed look like a blur. Bendalloy bubbles. I propose that speed slows down the time it takes to complete actions by essentially erecting a miniature bendalloy bubble around the user (and specifically the user) that's intensity varies with the amount of speed being tapped from the steelmind and a cadium bubble when the user is filling. admittedly the cadium bit is less solid as it doesn't slow time for the user but makes them seem as if they are 'moving through molasses' but the first part holds. Lemme know what you all think! If I can find it I'll link the original paper in the message somewhere. https://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/55640-feruchemical-steel-steelrunning-a-comprehensive-conglomeration/#:~:text=You store a percentage of,the shorter period of time.

Inspired by yet another full Mistborn series reread and my back-and-forth with @Phlipz1 in this topic. One of the only problems I had with Mistborn Era 2 is how powers are getting weaker, and the Metalborn themselves are getting rarer. We know how to deal with the second one - make another infusion of Preservation's (or maybe even Harmony's) Investiture via Lerasium or otherwise. It's impossible to do at this time, but not difficult if you get the required materials. But with the power loss over time, combined with population growth, Scadrian society will never be able to maintain the strength and commonality of the Metallic Arts. And the solution to that is simple - power Allomancy not just with the Investiture you get by burning metal, but also with physical Investiture like the Mist or Stormlight. By this point, we've seen Vin do it twice - once at the end of the Final Empire when Vin killed the Lord Ruler, and yet again during Vin's Ascension to Preservation, during her battle with the Inquisitors at the Hero of Ages. Both times her Allomancy was much stronger than normal. There is another time where we might have seen it done - the Bands of Mourning. We saw Marisi and Wax use them with strength equal or exceeding that of the Lord Ruler, but Kelsier hadn't possessed such strength in Allomancy when he lived. There are several reasons for why that might be, from Kelsier becoming Rashek's equal in Allomancy by holding Preservation to Compounding the ability to use the Metallic Arts in such a way that tapping it made one stronger. But now that I read the Compounding version several times, it doesn't make that much sense. Brandon said that Nicrosil Ferichemy works like Copper Feruchemy - something discrete is stored, used, and returned. And it doesn't make sense that tapping the same memory, or the same ability, will make it stronger and/or more detailed. It would be like having two copies of the same file on a hard drive. So I propose that the Bands have a separate layer of nicrosil - filled with the Mist. That would also make this quote by Wax make more sense: It doesn't make sense that nicrosil stores filled with the ability to use the Metallic arts would run out if they work like a Coppermind. Memories degrade when Feruchemists read the same memory repeatedly or when they don't put it back for long enough for the details to start fading. Wax and Marisi did nothing of the sort, but I suppose that you can say that stored Investiture works differently from Memories. However, if we assume that the ability to use Investiture is not being consumed, but the Mist... It would also somewhat explain why Thaidakar Kelsier would like to get his hands on some Stormlight trade.

If you could have the ability to burn one Allomantic metal and control over one surge, what would they be and what would the name of your new Misting/Radiant hybrid be?

Vin mentioned she could feel something when she burned Sazed's metalmind but couldn't access it. It wasn't unkeyed though. What time happen if an alomancer burned an unkeyed metalmind? Could they access that attribute like tapping it, but not store it since they weren't a feruchemist themselves, perhaps enhanced like for a compounder, or would they just get the power of the metal? Like, could the alomancer just like deage while actively burning an atium mind, but only as long as they were burning, or would they just get the power of atium?

The purpose of this topic is to project the most extreme abilities of any investiture in the cosmere based on the currently referenceable material. Ideas which can be logically defended are welcome regardless how outrageous. As promised a coinshot laser would likely be produced by a Steel twinborn compounder after the discovery of heavy metals and at least some experiments in nuclear science on Scadrial. This individual would likely be able to detonate nuclear explosions using metal pushing and heavy metals and would need the speed of a steelrunner to avoid serious injury. Using metal pushing they could likely push small particles of radioacive metal forming a type of laser or electromagnetic particle beam at high velocity. Due to a strong spiritual affinity with steel because of being a steel twin it might be possible that they could store steel pushes and speed in a metal mind for use feruchemically yielding steel pushes and speed to exceed duralumin assisted allomancy. The nuclear particle beam could be used on its own or in concert with radioactive spheres in battle situations to inflict massive damage. The nuclear laser could be used to split atoms in a plutonium, uranium or like metal to create atomic or nuclear explosions. Due to the ability to create steel bubbles they could also probably shield themselves from the radiation of nuclear material on or near them. With fine enough control they could also perform nuclear laser surgery. They could be outfitted in steel biomechanical armor that could act as a metal mind for both their allomantic and feruchemical abilities. What do you think of this idea or what extreme use of investiture do you envision?

If an aluminum gnat were to swallow both aluminum and a select few different metals, would all the metals be burned away, or just the aluminum? Do you have to be mistborn for the other metals to burn away too?

I was just wondering, what would happen if a Leecher (or Mistborn) burned chromium and touched a Fused? Draining all or even some of the Voidlight in a Fused's gemheart has been shown to be lethal, and draining Investiture is exactly what chromium does. If a Leecher or Mistborn got onto Roshar, I think that this would mean that Fused can now die permanently with a mere touch. Even if that's not the case, the worst-case scenario is that the Fused runs out of usable Voidlight and has to go recharge, which still is a decent result.

I'm curious what we think about how strong different magic users are and whether we think certain magics effect strength, and how much. I'll give a list with descriptions in the order I'd rank them. I'm wondering if you think I'm missing any critical groups for consideration Drab: Everything is just a hair worse for drabs. I suspect this effects strength, even if it's just a tiny effect Normal human Human at a high heightening: Everything is just a little better at a high heightening. I suspect this effects strength as well, even though it's not noted and the effect compared to the other more profound effects of heightening are probably comparatively negligible. Listener in warform: Warform is for fighting and being strong is definitely an asset. I suspect listeners in war form aren't that much stronger than a strong human, but at least a little bit Elantrian: Everything is significantly enhanced for Elantrians, and I suspect this includes strength, though I don't think regular Elantrians are necessarily outside the high end of the normal human range. Returned: Their bodies, including their strength, are at least potentially seriously enhanced and idealized. You would expect them to be stronger than almost any normal human. Radiant with stormlight: Kaladin doesn't think stormlight enhances his strength, but I think he's wrong. I suspect the effect isn't enormous, and he couldn't like, lift a truck, but I think radiants holding stormlight are still stronger than normal humans can ever become. Allomancer burning pewter: Their main thing is their supernatural strength. I think even a weak pewter arm using his powers is about twice as strong as a very strong man. Koloss: Definitely super-human in their strength Dakhor monk: I think it's an exaggeration, but Dilaf suggests Dakhor monks are worth hundreds of soldiers, and they are clearly monstrously strong. Active ChayShan user: Shuden clearly overmatches Dakhor monks when using this magic. Person wearing shardplate: People can only wield shardhammers wearing plate, and show pretty incredible feats otherwise. Allomancer Flaring pewter: This is the main cosmere strength-focused magic maxed out. I think WOBs under-estimate the power of this magic as demonstrated via character feats in the text. Feruchemist tapping strength: This magic doesn't have a clear upper-limit. It's potentially the strongest, but it has serious limitations, like being almost too bulky to move, needing to have stored a ton of strength to use it for any significant period of time, etc. I think generally they are around where a pewter arm is in terms of strength if they don't max out. Allomancer burning Pewter with Duralumin: Like strength feruchemy, this doesn't really seem to have an upper limit, but for a one-off feat, this is probably easier to achieve unless the feruchemist is a pewter compounder. A Pewter compounder tapping strength while burning or flaring pewter: a theoretical pewter compounder would be absurdly strong, and have very little limit to their absurd strength. *Edited to include shard plate, Duralumin Pewter, and Pewter compounding.

Does anyone know what specific powers Marsh (Ironeyes) has gotten from hemalurgy? We know he is a seeker, and we know he can compound atium, but what other Allomatic and Feruchemic powers does he have?

So tin is the physical internal pulling metal. Does someone know where it was described how the "pulling" effect was justified? So like, what is pulled and pushed by the internal physical metal. The rest is pretty obvious, but these two are still confusing from time to time. I couldn't find anything but I'm sure I read about it somewhere.

We all know of the rhythms on roshar, the singers and larkins hear them, and can use them to manipulate their own emotion. But what about the rhythms elsewhere, like on Scadrial: 1.if a seeker were to burn bronze on roshar they would sense the rhythms, but if a singer can hear rhythms even if they were born off world. So it seems like the rhythms pervade the cosmere but have a special connection to roshar. Additionally it seems like bronze sensing and rhythm hearing may be connected as bronze can hear rhythms, as bronze can hear rhythms and bronze pulses would be “familiar” to a singer. 2. Rhythms and Soothing appear to act very similarly. Both can manipulate emotions and both (as you can see in the latter case with help with enhanced Seeking) rely on pulsing to do so. And with copper disallowing the user to be affected by Soothing, that would all mental allomantic abilities related to the rhythms in some way. 3. Inquisitor “Throbbing” responds to emotions, could the throbbing be in time with the rhythms? Kar said he felt “the pain of joy”. Regardless, seems there are more to rhythms than meets the eyes

In the RoW Chapter 6 epigraph it is stated that the fabrial function is determined in part by the metal used. I think it would be worthy to ask Brandon if the metals used in the metallic arts are the same that can produce functional fabrials.

We remember the scene where Vin swallowed Sazed’s Metalmind and nothing happened. Because the Identity in the Metalmind didn’t match Vin’s. But what if Sazed had access to aluminum and blanked his Identity while Filling the Metalmind? We know that only people with the relevant Feruchemical ability can extract the power from an Unkeyed Metalmind(Ex. Wayne using an Unkeyed Goldmind). But could a Mistborn, or any Allomancer with the matching metal, gain something from it?

Can you Duralumin burst aluminium? I mean it would be difficult as the aluminium would probably be looking to metabolize the duralumin anyway but can you even duralumin burst aluminium in the first place? What about Nicroburst touching an Allomancer, Mistborn or Misting, burning aluminum? Can you use chromium to leech someone's aluminium?

huge fan of the cosmere and hopefully will have some cool discussions on here