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We know a radiant with stormlight can heal a shardblade wound, and so could a bloodmaker with enough stored-up healing. Vin, with the Mists fueling her allomancy is MUCH more powerful than she is with metals, and the Mists are gaseous investiture like Stormlight, which allows those who can take it in to survive extreme trauma, heal unbelievably quickly and holding it seems to enhance their strength, speed, and dexterity in a manner at least somewhat similar to someone burning pewter (I don't think it's quite that potent though). Is what Vin does with the mists, assuming she doesn't ascend all the way to preservation, limited to allomantic powers she already potentially has, or could it/does it also do other things (like potentially healing her like stormlight heals surgebinders). She is pretty beat up before Marsh rips the earring out in Hero of Ages and then when she gets access to the mists, she seems to heal in a manner a lot greater than even pewter would normally supply, though she is also in the process of ascending to functional godhood. All of this is basically to ask if Vin, not taking enough of the mists into herself to become preservation, could heal a shardblade wound to her arm with the mists. What do you guys think?

Yes, technically there are already two other threads about this. I still started this one, since it's a little different topic: instead of speaking mainly about fabrials, here I wish to discuss the connection between every application of any metal in the four magic systems: allomancy, feruchemy, hemalurgy and fabrials. I might've lost myself in the middle of that sentence, I hope you understood me. anyway, what we've seen so far: Iron - A: pulls on metals. Fe: stores weight. H: steals strength. Fa: changes polarity (whatever that means)/attracts attribute. Steel - A: pushes on metals. Fe: stores physical speed. H: steals physical allomantic powers. Fa: same as Iron. Tin - A: enhances senses. Fe: stores senses. H: steals senses. Fa: diminishes attribute. Pewter - A: enhances strength and balance. Fe: storing physical strength. H: steals physical feruchemical powers. Fa: expresses attribute. Zinc - A: riots emotions. Fe: stores mental speed. H: steals emotional fortitude. Fa: manifests the spren more strongly. Brass - A: soothes emotions. Fe: stores warmth. H: steals cognitive feruchemy. Fa: makes the spren withdraw. Copper - A: hides allomantic pulses. Fe: stores memory. H: steals mental fortitude, memory, and intelligence. Fa: unknown. Bronze - A: allows to hear allomantic pulses. Fe: stores wakefulness. H: steals mental allomancy. Fa: warns of things getting close. Aluminum - A: wipes internal allomantic reserves. Fe: stores Identity. H: removes all powers. Fa: cuts connection, no other known function. Duralumin - A: quickly burns any burning metals in powerful burst. Fe: stores connection. H: steals connection and identity. Fa: unknown. Chromium - A: wipes out target's allomantic reserves. Fe: stores furtune. H: might steal destiny? Fa: unknown. Nicrosil - A: enhances allomantic burn of target. Fe: stores investiture. H: steals investiture. Fa: unknown. Gold - A: shows past self (or alternative present self). Fe: stores health. H: steals hybrid feruchemy. Fa: unknown, probably known in-world. Electrum - A: shows possible future of the burner. Fe: stores determination. H: steals enhancement allomancy. Fa: unknown. Cadmium - A: slows down time. Fe: stores breath. H: steals temporal allomancy. Fa: unknown. Bendalloy - A: speeds up time. Fe: stores energy. H: steals spiritual feruchemy. Fa: unknown. Now, there are patterns inside each magic system, if you look for it, though so far only allomancy and hemalurgy have sensible division for each metal. For now, it might be better to stick to discussing only the lower metals - the first eight, since we understand those the most, and know mostly all of their applications in the magic systems (lets use the acronym MS for that) in discussion. Tin is irregular because it's the only one that does exactly the same in the first three MSs. I can't actually see any thorough connection between one metal's applications in all the MSs, and it's a little late at night in my country, and since I'm also lazy I'll leave you to think over it.

So, I realized this shortly after reading some of the pre-release chapters for RoW (not going to spoil them) because they reminded me of Chiri-Chiri and the Larkins in general, and their ability to consume Investiture and get bigger. If there was an Allomancer around, could a Larkin feed on their allomantic power output to grow? Sort of like how Nightblood will consume an Allomancer's allomantic effect while burning to feed himself instead of consuming their soul. If that's the case, an Allomancer could intentionally feed a Larkin and turn it into a Lanceryn (er... If that's actually how you spell that/what a fully grown Larkin is called), and be the Rosharan equivalent of a Dragon Rider or something absurd like that, instead of having to give it Stormlight periodically via spheres or highstorms. Of course, Allomantic strength becomes the deciding factor in how quick the Larkin would grow, then, so a direct Lerasium mistborn burning every metal at once (barring aluminum and duralumin) would probably be the most effective type of allomancer to feed a Larkin with. Just a random shower-ish thought I had and wanted to put out there for consideration.

It has been confirmed that when an allomancer tries to burn a feruchemical metalmind that they themselves stored, they can sense a new power. This new well of power can be tapped without burning the actual metal itself, thereby creating a HUGE increase in power. Let’s say someone was a full Mistborn and a full Feruchemist. What is they stored some Investiture in a Nicrosil metalmind, they tapped the power with Allomancy. While getting the already boosted power, if they burned duralumin, would it affect the Allomantically tapped metalmind, thereby giving them enough Investiture to become a Sliver?

We need to talk about the silver plating on Vin's earring! Somewhere between the moment Vin's mother drove this little bronze spike through Vin's sister into Vin's ear, and the moment we first see Vin in Book 1, this bronze earring became plated in "silver" (which must negate its Hemalurgic effects for reasons I'll explain) and then locked away inside of a box. Even ignoring the larger implications of Silver throughout the Cosmere, and isolating our attention only at Scadrial's magic system... We know that silver on Scadrial has no known Allomantic, Feruchemical, or (most importantly) Hemalurgic properties at all. If the earring were silver-plated before spiking through Vin's sister, then that silver would have nullified the spike's ability to behave as a hemalurgic spike and accept a hemalurgic charge. In contrast, if the earring was silver-plated after receiving a hemalurgic charge, then the silver would have blocked the earring's effects on the wearer (much like Nightblood's sheath blocks his power). If this bronze earring was plated in silver, then it's logical to infer that even if Vin wore it like that (fully silver-plated), then Ruin wouldn't have been able to reach her, nor would she have been able to tap into the extra seeker properties with which the spike was charged. Interestingly enough, that silver plating was notably wearing away throughout Vin's story. From Well of Ascension - Chapter 33: "Vin stood quietly. Absently, she pulled out her bronze earring—her mother’s earring—and worked it between her fingers, watching it reflect light. It had once been gilded with silver, but that had worn off in most places." From Hero of Ages – Chapter 54: "Silver. Useless, unburnable silver. Like lead, it was one of the metals that provided no Allomantic powers at all. “An unpopular metal indeed . . .” Yomen said, nodding to the side. A servant approached Vin, bearing something on a small platter. Her mother’s earring. It was a dull thing, Allomantically, made of bronze with some silver plating. Much of the silver had worn off years ago, and the brownish bronze showed through, making the earring look to be the cheap bauble it was. “Which is why,” Yomen continued, “I am so curious as to why you would bother with an ornament such as this. I have had it tested. Silver on the outside, bronze on the inside. Why those metals?" I figure that neither Reen nor Vin could've done this silver-plating to the bronze earring. They wouldn't have been concerned in the least with having it silver-plated while they were poor and had a hard enough time staying [relatively] safe and fed. I think someone who was cosmere-aware or, at the very least, was "Ruin-aware" was responsible for having the earring silver plated. I doubt Hoid would have done this, as well. My imagination says that he would have sooner destroyed or stolen the earring if he really wanted to interfere with Ruin's plans. Hoid wouldn't have preserved the earring so carefully. The fact that the earring was neutralized/silver-plated rather than destroyed... and the fact that it was placed in a box and that box was kept rather than disposed of... well, I would guess Preservation was behind this silver-plating. I think he did what he could to influence people and events around Vin to protect her while keeping in line with his own will to 'preserve' above all else. From Hero of Ages – Sazed's final Epigraph (just before the epilogue): "Vin was special. Preservation chose her from a very young age, as I have mentioned. I believe that he was grooming her to take his power... I believe that she must have drawn some of the mist into her when she was still a child, in those brief times when she wasn’t wearing the earring. Preservation had mostly gotten her to stop wearing it by the time Kelsier recruited her, though she put it back in for a moment before joining the crew. Then, she’d left it there at his suggestion." If the earring had been placed while Vin was an infant and left in her ear, then it's a safe assumption that Ruin would have had her entire lifetime to work his influence... if, of course, it hadn't been for the presumed efforts of Preservation to buy her as much time as he could. I asked Brandon Sanderson "Who was responsible for getting Vin's bronze earring plated in 'silver'?" and apparently that question was good enough to award me an RAFO card. :-) I will be framing it. Don't judge me. Who plated Vin's bronze earring in "silver"? When did they do it? Why? Is the plating on Vin's earring really silver (or just perceived to be Silver by the Scadrians)? ...is it the same metal as Nightblood's sheath? It seems to me that the silver plating on Vin's earring and Nightblood's famous "silver sheath" were essentially there to perform the same job. What do you think?

Suppose you were attacked by one of Kalad's Phantoms. If you were an allomancer capable of burning atium, would it have atium shadows?

Vin and the Inquisitors were able to pierce copperclouds because they had Hemalurgic spikes, which made them more powerful with bronze. Does that mean they could pierce any coppercloud out there, or does the strength of an Allomancer burning copper matter too? For example, could they pierce Lord Rulers or Elend's coppercloud? If so, could the Lord Ruler have pierced his own coppercloud?

If someone will gain allomantic or feruchemical abilities by being spiked with hemalurgic spike and he will have children, did his children will inherit (with standard genetic posibility) metalic abilities?

So, in compounding does one burn the power stored inside of a metalmind or does one burn the metalmind itself. In Alloy of law, Wax claims that Miles needs lots of gold for his constant compounding, this leads me to believe that its the latter; at the end of Alloy of law, it says that they removed all of Miles' metalminds so that he couldn't heal himself. I'm just a bit confused, and I have only read era 1 and Alloy of law.

What happens if you turn your malatium at a Forged person? Do you see the original? Would that be a corpse in Ashravan's case?

Been thinking about my favorite allomantic metal again... Started wondering if a skilled/near savant Oracle could start to trim down the number of future selves they see, down to like a top 5 or 3 or something of likeliest futures. That starts to get pretty close to Atium (without the mental boost), though, so i dunno. Also, a skilled Oracle could probably come up with some sort of subtle hand gesture that their past(but actually present) self could see, and use that to instantly be like "ah that's the best timeline of the bunch, let's follow that shadow's path" or "oh jeez that one didn't end well let's avoid that". Also of course the best feruchemy to pair with Electrum would be Zinc to replicate the other half of Atium.

I've been thinking about the effects of aluminum (for my alleyverse Character) and I was wondering; If a Knight Radiant or someone bonded to a dead shardblade was also an aluminum gnat/mistborn, and they flared Aluminum, what would happen? I believe that if Aluminum is flared enough, It cleanses the spiritweb. Spren attach themselves to the Radiants spirited when they bond, and deadeyes act similarly. So, would the allomancer Shardbearer/Radiant lose their bond?

Is there a scenario which would make burning bronze and copper sensible? Would you always block your own perception? Or is it possible to sense pulses coming from outside the coppercloud? Can you make a coppercloud shaped liked a donut, excluding yourself?

I believe that being a Nicroburst in Mistborn Era 3 would be better then any other type of metalborn. Why? Because of unsealed metalminds. The Nicroburst in question would be able to burn any unsealed nicrosil metalmind and gain whatever power was stored within it, allowing them to collect Allomantic and Feruchemal powers. And, once they got Feruchemal nicrosil, they could store, say, Allomantic steel for a time, compound it, and become much more powerful then before. The Bands of Mourning allowed you to become a Mistborn and Full Feruchemist at the same time, but only as long as you were tapping them. This, however, could do the same thing, but without that limitation. You've found this totally pointless secret! Yay!

Edit 3: Here's a quick look into my most recent progress - labels over targets, a more detailed HUD, and several physics tweaks. I'll edit what I can from the original post, but there's a lot of physics discussion in the replies that I highly suggest you read. Jofwu and I've discussed other possible relationships between Force and Distance, and there's a bit of a strange one that he came up with a while ago: Allomantic Force ∝ e ^ -d/D where d = distance and D = 16 When the target is right next to the Allomancer, e ^ -d/D approaches 1 and the AF approaches its maximum. When the target approaches an infinite distance away from the Allomancer, e ^ -d/D approaches 0 and the AF approaches 0. This strategy looks very similar to the linear relationship but avoids its icky discontinuity at the max range of the push. I like it a lot. For comparison, you can see all three Force-Distance relationships together here. Edit 2: Following Jofwu's footsteps, I had a conversation with /u/Phantine on reddit and am reconsidering how distance affects the Allomantic Force. I was originally confident in an inverse square relationship between Allomantic Force and the distance between the Allomancer and target, but through testing, a *linear* relationship has better handling and feels more reminiscent of Allomancers' movements in the books. I've added both as options in the game: The Allomantic Force is proportional to the inverse of the square of the distance between the Allomancer and the target When the target is right next to the Allomancer, the Allomantic Force approaches infinity. When the target approaches an infinite distance away from the Allomancy, the Allomantic Force approaches 0. The Allomantic Force decreases linearly with the distance between the Allomancer and the target. When the target is right next to the Allomancer, the Allomantic Force is at its maximum. When the target is at the max range (arbitrarily at 50 meters), the Allomantic Force is 0. I've also added the option to control the strength of your push through two control schemes: The player sets the *percentage* of the maximum possible force they can push with, or The player sets a *constant force* to try to push at, if possible. Edit 1: If you want to play the current build of the game, you can find it here on my GitHub. Aside from that, I've looked back at [8], @digitalbusker's post and see I misunderstood it a bit. I've re-read it and realized that I agree with it much more than I thought I did originally. In one paragraph, they said, This sounds just like the Allomantic Normal Force idea I used in the game. If you push on a target and the target can't move, the target pushes back on you as if there were a long, tangible line between you and the target. In this way, the ANF does work somewhat like an elastic collision. I did some more testing in the game and anything that involved directly manipulating velocities of the target or Allomancer worked poorly. I feel like sticking to forces rather than energy is the right way to go. Table of Contents I: Introduction I-a: My intent I-b: Current game progress & Videos I-c: Referenced forum posts I-d: Definitions II: Force, mass, and acceleration of a push III: Anchors and the pole analogy IV: Math V: Summary & Final points Part I: Introduction Over the summer I’ve been rereading Mistborn and have been thinking about the mechanics of Allomancy. I decided to have a go at recreating the physics of Ironpulling and Steelpushing in the Unity physics/game engine. I don’t intend on actually creating a game to sell (that’d be a bit illegal), so this is mostly an endeavor for personal fun. What follows is my current progress on the game as well as my current thoughts on the math and physics of Pushing and Pulling. Part I-a: My intent My goal is to take what Brandon describes in his books and do my best to create a working model of them in the Unity engine. My purpose in posting this here is to record my thoughts so I can be internally consistent, encourage discussion, and improve the game’s mechanics with your suggestions and criticisms. I don’t expect to perfectly recreate Allomancy as Brandon describes it in the books because there are some things with little connection to real-world physics (such as Feruchemical weight). I’ll try to give the pros and cons for all my decisions. If you disagree, tell me! I’ve been in my own personal bubble while making this, so I’d love some external input. Part I-b: Current game progress & Videos So far, I’ve implemented most of the physics and fundamentals of Ironpulling and Steelpushing. Here are some short videos: The setting: The sandbox I use for testing is based on Luthadel. There are metal poles stuck in haphazardly-placed buildings, and a few windows with metal frames/latches. At the intersection are metal objects of various masses, including coins, ingots, and 16-ton steel blocks. Blue metal lines: When the player (the grey sphere) begins passively burning metal, they see blue metal lines pointing towards nearby metal sources. The wider the line, the heavier the metal, and the brighter the line, the closer the target. Basic pushing/pulling: The player can “target” a metal. They can then push or pull on that metal. They can increase or decrease the strength of the push, as indicated by the wheel near the bottom. They can target multiple metals simultaneously (as indicated by the bright blue number beneath the wheel). Pull targets vs. Push targets: The player has separate targets for pulling (indicated by blue) and pushing (indicated by red). When the player pushes or pulls with specified push targets and pull targets, the player only pushes on the push targets and only pulls on the pull targets. If the player only has pull targets or only has push targets, they can push and pull on any target. Pushing/pulling with coins: The player can throw, drop, and pick up coins. The number in the lower right corner indicates the number of coins in the player’s pouch. Flying around Luthadel: It’s a bit tricky, but the player can fly between buildings by pulling on metal latches and pushing on coins. Some things are still a bit buggy, namely the camera, coin physics, and width of the white part of the blue/red line pointing at a target while pushing. Part I-c: Referenced forum posts Many of the ideas used in the calculations come from the work previous Sharders have done on making sense of Brandon’s magics. Here are some that I used, which I recommend to anyone interested in the physics of Allomancy: When I use specific ideas from these threads, I’ll mark it with a [#]. Other threads I found interesting: Part I-d: Definitions Key statements are italicized. Key terms are written in bold for their first appearance. Push – unless I specify otherwise, I’ll simply say “push” instead of “push/pull” to refer to the math of both steel and iron. It’s a lot easier to read while still means the same thing. All physics and rules of a pull are the same as a push, just in the opposite direction. Target – the metal that an Allomancer is currently pushing on. Coins are often a target. Distance – the distance between an Allomancer and their target. Anchor/anchored – a target is an anchor if it does not move. A lamppost, a coin stuck on the ground, and a metal roof would all be anchors. Note that the metal is the anchor, not the nearby wall/ground/stone. A target is unanchored if it is moving freely with no resistance. A target is partially anchored if it meets some resistance but is not fully anchored (i.e. a coin skidding on the ground). Allomantic Force (AF) – the force that an Allomancer directly exerts on a target while pushing. Equal in magnitude to the force that the target directly exerts on the Allomancer while pushing. The Allomantic force does not change if the target is anchored or unanchored. Allomantic Normal Force (ANF) – the force that is exerted on an Allomancer or target as a result of the opposing target or Allomancer's push or pull by the surrounding ground, walls, etc. I'll discuss this down below. Essentially, it's what makes anchored targets give that extra strength to your push. Now, let's jump into the physics of Allomancy. Part II: Force, mass, and acceleration of a push When Allomancers in the books refer to “weight,” they almost always mean mass. [1] Let’s ignore Feruchemical weight for now. When an Allomancer pushes on a target, the Allomancer exerts a force on the target that is equal and opposite to the force that the target exerts on the Allomancer. It’s F = ma, it’s Newton’s third law, and if anything else were the case, the physics of Mistborn would be far too distant from our world for a good simulation. This explains one of the core features of pushing and pulling: If you push on an object heavier than you, you will accelerate more than it (and vice-versa). You push on a coin out in front of you. The force is the same between you and the coin, but the coin has less mass, so it accelerates more than you. The coin goes flying, but you hardly move. Likewise, heavier objects (like cars) have more mass than you, so you accelerate more than them. The previous statements are most apparent with an Allomancer and target in free-fall or space, where the Allomancer and target (such as a coin) won’t be anchored by anything (such as the ground). When the Allomancer or target are anchored by a wall or the ground, things get complicated. Part III: Anchors and the pole analogy In the books, if an Allomancer is falling through the air, throws a coin downwards, and starts pushing on it, the Allomancer doesn’t feel much while the coin is falling through the air and unanchored. The Allomancer pushes on the coin, but their acceleration from the push is not enough to stop their fall. Once the coin hits the ground and stops moving, the Allomancer suddenly “can get a stronger push” and decelerate more strongly. Here is my interpretation: Pushing against an anchored coin on the ground has a similar effect as holding a long pole and physically pushing against the ground. The Normal Force due to the Allomantic Force (Allomantic Normal Force, or ANF) that the ground/wall/etc. exerts on the target is transferred to the Allomancer. If you held a long vertical pole and pushed down on the ground, the ground would push back on you and the pole. If you tried to push the pole into the ground, the ground would resist, and you could climb upwards relative to the ground. Allomancy mimics this effect. When pushing on the coin, it is like you are physically connected to the coin. If something resists your push, you experience that resistance. It's just like you're literally pushing against the coin with your fists. If the coin's in the air, hardly anything happens. If the coin's on the ground, the ground resists. I drew some free-body diagrams that hopefully help explain what I’m saying. In these, an Allomancer and coin are falling down. The Allomancer is pushing on the coin. Let me discuss two of the other theories as to how Allomancers get stronger pushes from anchored targets: When the coin is airborne, the allomancer is only pushing on the mass of the coin. But when the coin is anchored to the planet, they are also pushing on the mass of Scadrial/the ground around the coin, which causes the Allomancer to accelerate more. [not a quote, but the concept taken from 1] I’ll get into how mass affects the force later in the math section, but I want to now make something clear. With my interpretation, Allomancers push on the mass of metal, not the combined mass of metal and nearby non-metal (the planet). When pushing against an anchored coin, the Allomancer is only indirectly pushing on the ground – they are pushing on the coin, which pushes on the ground, which resists back on the coin, which resists back on the Allomancer – similar to holding a long pole and pushing on the ground. An Allomancer’s strength is the amount of kinetic energy they can add to the system of the coin and allomancer. When the Allomancer pushes on an unanchored target, that kinetic energy is distributed between the two, proportionally to their masses. But, when the target is stationary, their velocity is zero, so all of the kinetic energy is given to the allomancer (and vice-versa). [paraphrased from 8] I like this explanation. Honestly, I may agree with it more than with my own ANF theory. I tried it out, but it was a lot more difficult programming-wise than the ANF idea. Unity has easier force manipulation than energy manipulation, so I framed my theory using that. Energy is just force with extra steps. (See Edit 1) I’ll talk more about the Allomantic Normal Force and partially-anchored targets after the math in Part V. Part IV: Math Now, I’ll introduce the formula that I used to calculate the Allomantic Force. After that, I’ll describe each of the terms in detail. Allomancy is a lot like magnetism, so let’s start by looking at the formula for the magnetic force between two poles. In Allomancy, the “two poles” would be the Allomancer and target. Magnetic Force = Constant * q1 * q2 / r2 Constant – some constant that depends on the medium between the poles. q1and q2 – the magnitudes of the magnetic charges of the poles. r – the distance between the poles. The greater the charges, the greater the force. The greater the distance between the two poles, the weaker the force – and through the inverse square relationship, greater and greater distances cause much weaker and weaker forces. Now, the Allomantic Force: Allomantic Force = A * S * b * c1 * c2 / r2 (See Edit 2/3) A – some constant. This depends on how all pushes and pulls are described in the book and can be increased/decreased for overall stronger/weaker pushes. b – Burn rate. See below. S – Allomantic Strength. See below. c1 and c2 – the Allomantic Charges of the Allomancer and target. r – the distance between the Allomancer and target. Burn rate – the rate at which an allomancer burns their metals. For my purposes, burn rate is a range between 0 and 1, where 0 is “not burning at all” and 1 is “pushing as hard as you can,” possibly without flaring. I bound this to the triggers on a gamepad and to the scroll wheel on a mouse, which allow me to variably control the strength of a push using the burn rate. Allomantic Strength – the most magic-y of the all the components of the force. Some Allomancers are naturally stronger than others, perhaps by sDNA. Allomancers get better with training and experience. These factors get bundled into the Allomancer’s Allomantic Strength. The Allomantic Force is not proportional to the Allomantic Strength (see [3]). Rather, the Allomancer’s maximum burn rate is proportional to the Allomantic Strength. In this way, Allomantic Strength acts as a sort of limiter. Stronger Allomancers must be able to burn more metal faster for a stronger effect. I won’t incorporate this in-game. Allomantic Charge – Analogous to magnetic charge. Contributes to the Allomantic Force. A property of both metals and Allomancers. I recommend now reading [1], which has a very interesting theory on this. I’m not adhering to it completely, though. An Allomancer or target’s Allomantic Charge is a function of its mass. To make the mass relationships of Mistborn work, we need to satisfy a few factors: The more massive a target is, the stronger a push an Allomancer can get off of it. The less massive a target is, the weaker a push an allomancer can get off of it. “[Wax] shot outwards in a grand arc above the city, flying for a good half a minute on the Push off those enormous girders” (AoL ch 1 pg 34) [3]. “…the lamp was a good anchor - lots of metal, firmly attached to the ground - capable of pushing [Wax] quite high” (AoL ch 1 pg 32) [3]. Both of the targets in these quotes are equally anchored, but the girders are much more massive and provide a stronger push. I don’t have any direct quotes, but we know that Allomancers get less of a push from coins than they do from, say, enormous girders. The “heavier” an Allomancer is, the stronger their push. This argument comes from Feruchemical weight, not mass, but it nonetheless impacts Allomancy in the books, so I should bring it up here. While tapping weight, Wax thought, “with this incredible conflux of weight, his ability to Push grew incredible” (AoL) [2]. I can’t quite remember the context or quote, but I recall that one of Kelsier’s surprises about Vin was her Allomantic Strength/Charge was large “for her size,” implying that smaller/less massive Allomancers usually have less charge. It’s symmetrical with the target’s mass impacting the Allomantic Charge. It’s intuitive and makes sense. There should be some soft maximum cap and minimum cap to the force. If an Allomancer pushes off of an absolutely massive multi-ton solid block of gold, they shouldn’t be pushed into the stratosphere. Likewise, coins are very light relative to lampposts and roofs, but they still provide a reasonably strong push. This leads me to the most disgusting part of the math. What exact relationship do the masses have with the force? The relationship can’t be zero. If this were the case, mass would have no effect on the force, which I argued against. Also, an Allomancer could push on a “metal” with a mass of 0 and still get a push, which doesn’t make sense. The relationship can’t be linear. If this were the case, a target 10 times as massive as another would provide 10 times a push as the other, which doesn’t appear to be the case. If an Allomancer pushes first on a 30g coin and then on a 30kg metal block, the Allomancer would receive 1000 times more the force from the block than the coin. In the books, Allomancers push off of girders and roofs which are much heavier than 30kg, but they certainly don’t describe such a massive difference in forces from coins. That’s duralumin-levels of strength. I’ve tried out a lot of relationships. Logs, sum of logs, product of logs, and roots. Eww. My solution was to take the root of the masses of the Allomancer and target. Specifically, the, ah, sixteenth root. It provided a good combination of strong-enough pushes from light coins and weak-enough pushes from very massive targets that felt most similar to the books. The number 16 was arbitrary. I figured I might as well use Scadrial’s base number for legitimacy. If I used a more elegant root (i.e. the square root), coins provided practically no force, and massive targets still pushed to the stratosphere. Higher roots “level the playing field” more than lower roots. c1 = sixteenth root of (m1) c2 = sixteenth root of (m2) m1 – mass of Allomancer m2– mass of target Because of how roots work, we can also say that c1 * c2 = sixteenth root of (m1 * m2). Regarding the maximum to the force that an Allomancer can get from an extremely massive target: The heavier and heavier the target, the less and less the increase in force. No pushes to the stratosphere. I’m not actually sure if this is the case with roots, but it felt like it was: the lighter and lighter the target, the less and less the decrease in force. Coins are very light, but still provide a significant push. In the end, I’m not actually trying to figure out how mass affects the force in the books. I am fairly confident Brandon didn’t consider the exact relationship while writing the books. I’m just finding ways to emulate it in a physics engine. Part V: Summary & Final points And here’s the final, composed formula for the force an Allomancer experiences while pushing: Force on Allomancer = Allomantic Force + Allomantic Normal Force = Allomantic Constant * Burn rate * sixteenth root of (target mass * Allomancer mass) / squared distance between Allomancer and target (See Edit 2/3) + Allomantic Normal Force Burn rate is between 0 and 1. A Burn rate of 1 gives the maximum Allomantic Force. When target mass is 0 or the Allomancer mass is 0, the Allomantic Force is 0. The closer and closer the target is to the Allomancer, the greater and greater the Allomantic Force. Like other normal forces, if the target isn’t fully anchored (e.g. a coin sliding across the ground, or a thin metal rod that bends as you push on it), the Allomantic Normal Force ranges from 0 to the Allomantic Force, depending on how anchored the target is. This means that an Allomancer pushing on a perfectly anchored target will be pushed back with twice the force as a perfectly unanchored target, assuming they have the same distance. This last bit about the distance is key. If an Allomancer is falling through the air and throws down a coin, the coin quickly falls further and further down. The Allomantic Force quickly becomes very small. Only once the Allomancer falls further and is near the coin – now anchored to the ground – does the distance stay small enough for the Allomantic Force to be large enough for a long enough time to scale a building. Friction (and air resistance) can also be a normal force, in this context; any (normal component of a) force that resists the Allomantic Force can be an ANF. Gravity, too, can be an ANF. An allomancer hovering in the air (whose push cancels out gravity) exerts an ANF equal to gravity back to their target. Theoretically, the Allomantic Normal Force could be greater than the Allomantic Force if the target accelerated in the opposite direction of the push. If you pushed (not pulled) on a target, and the target moved towards you (e.g. a very determined Steel Inquisitor, resisting your push and walking towards you), that normal force would push on you harder. This could result in “pushing matches” between Allomancers who try to move towards each other for even stronger pushes. Allomantic Normal Force works both ways. If the Allomancer is anchored (e.g. braced against a wall), the target will experience an Allomantic Normal Force. Other details: There are two main coins in Mistborn: Imperial boxings (gold) and clips (copper or bronze). In real life gold coins are usually around 30 grams, but I’ve experimented with increasing their mass by about 10-100 times for the game. Currently, I’ve kept them as 30g. When pushed with any reasonable force, 30g coins instantly fly off of the screen like bullets. There’s no user feedback that they pushed on that coin, other than, “that coin no longer appears to exist.” If you drop a coin from the air, it is on the ground by the next frame. Coins are sometimes described as behaving like bullets, but I don’t like how that works in the game. With heavier coins, you can see the coin after you push on it, but it still moves very quickly. Another option (which is the one I’m using in the game) is to simply cap their maximum velocity. I’ve left it at around 120m/s, which feels good. That’s about 1/3 the speed of sound. It causes some problems with calculating the Allomantic Normal Force from the target, but those have been resolved with coding (more or less). The image on the coins in the game is taken from Shire Mint. Fun fact: Unity doesn’t let you modify force vectors individually, which makes this a bit hard. You can only add forces/accelerations/velocity changes one at a time, then they are all applied to the object at the end of the frame. Calculating the Allomantic Normal Force is absolutely disgusting. See my code on GitHub, if you’re curious. I hope you all enjoyed the read! Please discuss this and give your opinions on the physics and maths of Allomancy. Specifically, Are there any more elegant relationships between Allomancer/target mass and Allomantic Force that you think I should try? Does anyone have any esoteric knowledge of Unity’s Rigidbody/Force systems that you think could be helpful? Any general ideas for the game? Any suggestions from what you can see in the videos? Any spelling/formatting issues with the post? Thank you.

A Leecher misting typically uses their ability to wipe another Allomancer of their metal reserves, and the Coppermind confirms that this also works for Breath and Stormlight, while also preventing a Shardbearer from summoning their Shardblade. Ever since I saw this line from the New Ascendancy broadsheet (from Bands of Mourning), I wondered: "Would this same thing work on metalminds?" I think it would, since it works on other, more distantly related forms of Investiture, but it might not.

For a while, I've been wondering what happens when an Allomancer burns a Hemalurgic spike. The Coppermind says that This helps, but I don't understand what it actually means. Does the Allomancer get the attribute in the spike? Is it closer to Allomantic/Feruchemal compounding? Does something completely unrelated happen? (I personally think the first is most likely, but I really don't know.)

In Shadows of Self, Paalm uses Trellium to give herself Metalborn abilities, and apparently nobody had ever seen anything like this before. But more common metals do steal Allomancy and Feruchemy (like how steel steals physical allomancy). So, couldn't all Kandra make themselves Metalborn this way?

We know that alumium protects an allomancer from foreign Investiture. So you cannot heal them with Progression, AonDor or Forgery while they are burning it. But what about later effects? If you have been healed with Forgery, you have to stay forged, depending on the extent of the injury possibly permanently. If that is the case and you burn aluminium, does that amount to suicide?

Suppose you were a Mistborn and became a Surgebinder, specifically a Lightweaver, what tests of interactions between your powers would you do? a pewter run while on Stormlight do soulcast metals power my allomancy do I instantly heal if burning duraluminium while on Stormlight can I communicate with my spren while in a speed bubble can I use steel/iron on my shard blade what happens if I use soulcasting on a metal object I am using iron/steel on? can I hear my spren with bronze can I hear my illusions with bronze can my spren use allomancy does my spren develop an electrum shadow does my spren develop a gold doppelgänger can I use emotional allomancy on my spren does a coppercloud interfere with lightweavings, soulcasting or summoning my shard blade can I destroy a lightweaving with chromium do I wipe out my Stormlight with aluminium what happens to existing illusions if I use aluminium Anything else? And what would other orders do?

Atium allows you to see someboy else's future. Apparently if you massively burn it, that is a limitation that can be broken and you get a future sight similar to what a Shard gets. Just that your mind cannot deal with that for long. We also know that future sights interfere with each other. So one question, if it in last consequence peeks into the Spiritual Realm, it will need to interact with someody representation in it. Does burning aluminium prevent that?

Let us suppose a Misting of cadmium or bendalloy or a Mistborn became a Radiant. That of course can happen. That raises the possibility that such an Allomancer would try to create a time bubble that does not include his spren. What would happen then? In answering this question we need to consider a property of speed bubbles. Hitting the border does not kill you. That is extremely odd, because it definitely should. Just consider what should happen to your brain if your heart rate changed by orders of magnitude with respect to it. Likewise having parts of your brain operate at radically different speeds is not a good idea medically speaking. So you are always either entirely in it or outside it, respectively you destroy the bubble crossing the boundary. It looks like it operates on objects which are a whole in cognitive terms, just like steel and iron usually do.. So we may assume that having one part of a linked spirit web inside a bubble and another part outside is not a good idea. And it will not work. So what would happen. The bubble immediately collapses or does not form You make two bubbles, one around you and one around the spren You sever the bond I tend to option #1. What do you think?

Ok, so, bit of explanation up front about the long-winded topic tile. My first ever post on the forums was a Reverse Compounding theory (based on the WoB of there being "a way to enhance allomancy using feruchemy" (see following spoiler for the wob). In it, I went over how Compounding F-Nicrosil charged with an allomantic power would likely result in being able to become vastly stronger with that metal, which I still believe is true. I do NOT, however, still believe that to be "real" Reverse Compounding. It does involve using Feruchemy to enhance Allomancy, as per the Wob, but I think there's a second possibility, one that isn't limited to Nicrosil Compounding. (Y'know what, from henceforth, I will use C-Nicrosil/gold/etc to denote Compounded metals. It's just quicker and more concise.) This second possibility is that a Compounder can store the Allomantic effect of their metal inside a Metalmind, charging it up with the allomantic power instead of the usual feruchemical attribute. There's a certain symmetrical simplicity to that which makes me think I'm on the right track. Now the main benefit here is that you can keep burning the metal and charging up the metalmind with it, and after you're done, you have a feruchemically-stored supply of Allomantic power. So now you can make use of Feruchemy's greatest feature and tap a HUGE amount of allomantic power out in a short burst, almost like a Duralumin burn. The obvious example would be Steel, wherein you can Push with potentially hundreds of times the normal force you can muster, possibly launching a coin at railgun-level speeds, or fling yourself high into the sky with one leap. Another advantage this has over A-Duralumin burns is that the exact amount of power you muster can be fine-tuned, meaning you can also be more subtle with, let's say Steel again, and easily hover using ground anchors without needing as much practice in managing your allomantic steel burn rate/power. Now the first argument I could see against this is "well if that's how it works, why haven't we seen it yet" and, well, I think the answer is kind of obvious. In the case of Miles, doing this was pointless. He doesn't need finesse or brute force with A-Gold, he needs F-Gold charge en-masse. It's also possible that it's just too tricky of a balancing act to do BOTH at once, and so he just focused on doing normal C-Gold since Reverse C-Gold is just as useless as unmodified A-Gold. The other part of the answer is, well, we HAVE. The Lord Ruler could soothe in a HUGE radius, with soul-crushing potency. He may have known about Nicrosil, and so may have used normal C-Nicrosil to boost up his potency in A-Brass, but I feel like something's missing there. Surely if he was constantly burning brass to do that, he would have to be constantly chugging Brass flakes or poking brass spikes (not hemalurgic ones) into himself to burn, which seems crude and clumsy. Surely he of all people would learn how to Reverse Compound, and that's how he Soothes in such a radius at such power at seemingly all hours of every day. He's using RC-Brass and tapping it constantly. In fact, he could actually still be consuming brass metal to Soothe with, but that Brass could be supercharged with Allomantic brass power, making it even more powerful when burned. At the very least, that would significantly reduce the interval at which he would need to burn Brass, which would make things a lot less obnoxious. Just fill a brass ring with A-Brass, and Reverse Compound it, then store it in a full-sized Brassmind. I dunno, I feel like this lines up really nicely, and the poetic symmetry of it literally being the reverse of normal Compounding makes it even more plausible to me. What do you think, though? Where did i slip up in my logic?

Hello All I was wondering what would happen if let's say I was a twinborn from Pewter allomancy and gold feruchemey. Would I be able to burn Pewter to increase my strength and then use that strength to fill my gold metal minds? Pretty much cheating and using the health granted to me by pewter instead of my own health to fill my gold metal minds. Essentially gaining all the benefits that a gold compounder would get but better in some ways as I do not have to burn any gold doing this. Though filling my metal minds would take longer. Or is that not possible at all and I cannot draw on the power of pewter to fill my metal mind and doing this will just draw on my own power to fill the mind which means I'll still be weak physically while the minds are filling though maybe not as weak as usual since I'm burning pewter but overall my feruchemy is still net-zero and I won't be able to be immortal or fill extreme amounts of health using pewter. I've listened to graphic audiobooks for all Mistborn main series and side stories so don't worry about spoilers. Sorry if the formatting of tags and the title is off, I'm new here and plan to be active way more once I finish the rest of the cosmere stories (only Emperor's soul, white sand and Arcanum stories left). It's just this question was left on my mind.

I was bored, and, like any normal person would, I decided to make my own, non-canon, hypothetical "quadrant" to add to the three Metallic Arts. I used real metals and alloys of those real metals (including the infamous silver), but these effects could easily be Lerasium alloys' effects instead, if you want them to be more canon. 2 of them would be Physical (Cobalt and Nixium, likely would be alloys of Lerasium and iron/steel), and 2 would be Enhancement (Silver and Argentum, would likely be alloys of aluminum and duralumin). I also have a nice little minimalist chart of these 4 set up, just for the fun of it, and for practicing graphic design for later. I'll elaborate on the brief descriptions of the powers in each of the segments of that chart here. - The quadrant itself is the Mystic metals category. It's a nice catch-all term for the somewhat disparate abilities of the metals, without just being "hybrid" again like Feruchemy's hybrid quadrant. - The Mystic Allomantic metals, as mentioned above, are 2 Physical effects and 2 Enhancement effects. Cobalt/Nixium's effects work by altering the overall velocity of a metallic object within reach. Nixium Pushes the metals, adding to their current velocity. However, like Steel, the Pushes are equal and opposite reactions on the Allomancer as well, as if they themselves were Pushing in the same direction that Nixium is adding the velocity in. So to accelerate an object upwards, the Allomancer will be pushed downwards equally in exchange. - Likewise, Cobalt Pulls on metals, reducing their current velocity, including the inevitable pull of gravity, allowing an allomancer to produce hovering footholds with which to leap between. As with Nixium, Cobalt transfers force to the allomancer, meaning that the taken velocity is added to theirs. This results in the allomancer feeling an increased gravitational pull when stopping a metal object from falling, based on the mass of the object being anchored. - Ahh, Silver, silver, silver... A tricky metal to be sure, and quirky enough to explain why it was (and, is) considered Allomantically Inert by all metalborn. Silver works by channeling its power into the "floodgates" of other metals' power, flowing into and through the Allomancer via their other burning metals. When burned by itself, this effect enters a feedback loop of constricting its own power, which induces a nauseating feeling that is almost completely indistinguishable from the sickness of burning a non-allomantic metal or impure alloy. Burning silver and Duralumin amplifies this issue, as the Silver constricts both the duralumin and itself, while the duralumin forces the Silver to expend itself at astronomical rates, causing the silver constriction to intensify to the point where no power can flow, releasing a huge amount of pent-up allomantic power when the constriction wears off, sickening the allomancer deeply, even killing them. Flaring silver and duralumin will kill an allomancer foolish enough to try it. When properly employed, Silver reduces the power output per gram of metal, which may seem purely negative as Aluminum does, but it comes with the added benefit of making the allomancer's metal resources more difficult to Leech or Nicroburst away, keeping them safe from harm while you have Silver to burn. -Argentum, then, is the opposite. It uses the influx of power from Preservation to widen the "floodgates" of other metals burned alongside it. It enhances the power output per gram of metal, which pairs nicely with Duralumin, giving you a further multiplication on power received per second. It also allows you to be a bit more subtle with your burn rate, keeping a low burn while still getting a fair bit of power out of the metals. As you might guess, Argentum-boosted metals are easier to Leech or Nicroburst away. As well, Argentum Savants are not terribly uncommon among Argentum allomancers, due to the fact that by burning Argentum alone, you can have a positive feedback loop of increasing power flowing through via Argentum widening its own "floodgates" over and over. Benefits of Argentum Savantism include a generally improved power output per gram of metal in all metals that the Savant can burn, and an improved ability to control your metals' burn rates. Drawbacks include an addiction-like dependence on Argentum allomancy, as well as a particular vulnerability to being Nicrobursted. Some speculate that the Argentum Allomancer welcomes the rush of power from a Nicroburst on a subconscious level, being familiarized with it from Argentum Allomancy, though this is unconfirmed. - The Mystic Feruchemical metals, then, are quite fun. Cobalt feruchemy is my personal favorite, as it allows the feruchemist to shrink or grow, like ant-man. Cobaltminds are often worn as bracelets at normal size, rings at large size, and a belt at small size, with their standard "big" and "small" sizes being dependent on when the Cobaltmind fits as such. Cobalt Feruchemy also strengthens the body to prevent it from collapsing at larger sizes from the Square-Cube Law, and to allow mobility even at such sizes, much like how Iron feruchemy strengthens the body to allow movement at great weights. - Nixium Feruchemy is rather odd, as it stores Ionic Energy. Fire, Electricity, both can be stored in Nixiumminds, allowing a Nixium feruchemist to quench flames or deplete batteries and charge their metalminds with that type of energy. One Nixiummind cannot store both fire and electrical energy in it at a time, but multiple Nixiumminds can be employed by a Nixium feruchemist to circumvent this. When tapping, the Nixium Feruchemist can direct the stored energy out of their body, typically through the hands, casting lightning bolts or spouts of flame. It's one of the most visually stunning feruchemical powers, to be sure. The Feruchemist is also protected from electrocuting or burning themselves when tapping. - Silver feruchemy stores Light from a small radius around a feruchemist, typically close to their skin, though further out as they store more aggressively. In an enclosed room with a large amount of uncharged silver, a feruchemist can darken the whole room to pitch-black for some time. Tapping Silver causes the Feruchemist to glow, illuminating the area around them. They are also not blinded by the light emitted from their Silver feruchemy, though others can be, making a quick, aggressive tapping of Silver an effective flashbang, of sorts, disorienting foes. (side note: this unintentionally made a pun of Silver-light. I couldn't pass this up after I realized that.) - Argentum Feruchemy stores Sound, a fitting counterpart to Silver. When storing, the feruchemist and his/her immediate surroundings become muted, with the area affected increasing as they store more aggressively. When tapping, sounds produced by the feruchemist become amplified, moreso the more they tap. With enough stored Sound, the feruchemist can create dangerously loud sounds, which is of particular effect against Tineyes or Windwhispers. The feruchemist is also strengthened to be able to withstand the loud noises they produce, unable to deafen themselves. - Cobalt Hemalurgy steals Mystic Allomantic powers. Pretty simple, just like any other allomancy-stealing spike. - Nixium Hemalurgy steals Mystic Feruchemical Powers, which functions just as expected. - Silver Hemalurgy steals Spiritual Fortitude, which is somewhat complex. A spike will enhance the "can't push/pull on metals inside someone" effect, will reinforce the user against Emotional allomantic possession, and even increases the spike threshold for Shardic possession by a net gain of 1 for every silver spike (of average strength). A Silver Kandra Blessing would make them immune to Emotional allomantic possession, and almost fully immune to Shardic possession, in theory being more trouble than it's worth, requiring too much concentration to break through (if we're talking about Ruin trying to control an army of Kandra, Koloss, and Inquisitors, which, isn't likely to happen again. But a Silver Kandra COULD resist Harmony, if they tried hard enough, though that is in part due to his conflicting Intents, rather than the sheer strength of Silver. - Argentum Hemalurgy Steals Physical Immunity, which is to say, potency of your Immune System, and liver. Diseases, and poisons, are reduced in effectiveness against someone with a Nixium spike. So, what do you guys think? These WOULD be more logical as godmetal alloys, i admit, but the idea was too fun to pass up to stave off boredom.