israel8491

Aaaaah thanks for the update!! Here's what I said about Yelig-nar back in the original post from 2014: HA I was right! If anyone wants to research Lovecraft deities, feel free to knock yourself out. I'm less familiar with his larger body of work and there were no obvious matches on the Wiki entry for Lovecraft creatures.

A couple of years back, I posted a thread about how the names of the Unknown listed in Words of Radiance resembled a bunch of Mesopotamian gods. I'd like to start digging into the new Unmade names in Oathbringer. Previous thread: Other thread I wasn't in: In the meantime, a friend of mine asked Brandon about the Unmade names and Brandon said that he was inspired by real-world sources, but the sources didn't really have any influence on the Stormlight Archive plot. So this thread is just for fun inspiration digging. There aren't going to be any cool revelations about what will happen later in the series. Really. This is me being pedantic and academic. Anyways, I made a handy-dandy chart of the Unmade and which Mesopotamian gods I think Brandon got the names from: Unmade Nickname Powers Source? Yelig-Nar Blight Wind Consumes souls? ? Sja-anat Corrupts spren Satan (New Testament) or Anat, the Ugaritic and Egyptian goddess Nergaoul Causes the Thrill Nergal, the Mesopotamian god of death, pestilence and plague, and Lord of the Underworld Moelach Causes the Death Rattles Moloch, God of fire and chaos; child sacrifices Dai-gonarthis Black Fisher ? Dagan or Dagon, fisher or spear god Re-Shephir Midnight Mother Copycat murders Resheph, a Canaanite/Ugaritic god of plague; often equated to Nergal Ashertmarn Heart of the Revel Partying Ashera, Sumerian goddess and lady of the sea Bo-Ado-Mishram Commander of the unmade? Baal-Hadad? Seems a bit of a stretch. Chemoarish Dustmother ? Chemosh, Moabite god We previously attributed Re-Shephir to Resheph, Dai-gonarthis to Dagon (although he might not be an Unmade after all), Moelach to Moloch, and Nergaoul to Nergal. There's also been some debate over whether Sja-anat gets her name from Satan or Anat. Personally, I lean towards Anat. Anat was a goddess in both Egypt and Mesopotamian cultures, while Satan originates in the Old Testament and is never a Mesopotamian (or other nearby culture's) god. Of the new Unmade we learn about in Oathbringer, Chemoarish seems to pretty obviously take her name from the Moabite god Chemosh. The one wrinkle in that is Chemosh is a male god, while Chemoarish's sobriquet "Dustmother" implies she's a female spren. Ashertmarn is a bit more difficult. There's a goddess named Astarte/Astoreth, but I think it's Asherah, another goddess in the area. The "marn" part I have no idea about. Asherah is also called Asherah of the Sea, or Asheret Ya'am, and "mar" means "sea" in Spanish? I think that's a coincidence though. Bo-Ado-Mishram is a tough one. There's a god called Hadad who was also sometimes called Baal-Hadad (a conflation of two separate gods I think?). If you take a syllable from each name you get "Ba Ad", which is maybe a tiny bit similar? I think I'm on the wrong track with this one. Help! And as always, who the heck knows where Yelig-nar comes from. There's also the question of whether Brandon was taking inspiration from Judeo-Christian demons or Mesopotamian gods. Judeo-Christianity tends to label Mesopotamian gods as demons, hence the crossover. For example, Moloch, Dagon, Resheph, Asherah, and Nergal all get Old Testament mentions (I know very little New Testament stuff, so if anyone wants to chime in on that end that'd be great). This really comes into play over whether Sja-anat gets her name from Satan or Anat; the former is only possible if Brandon was going for demonology.

A friend went to a book signing and asked Brandon Sanderson about this on my behalf. According to Sanderson, he does take name inspirations from a variety of sources, including mythology, but it has no significance to the plot. So we found a cool trivia fact. Personally, I'm just happy that my idiot crack theory was right.

So in Words of Radiance (can't give the direct quote or page number since I am moving and my copy is in a taped-up box), Sadeas says that he likes his wife Ialai's name because unlike most Rosharan names, which are palindromes except one letter off, her name is a perfect palindrome and therefore a bit arrogant. Similarly, Kabsal compliments Shallan on her name in Way of Kings because it's one sound off from a palindrome. So why does Laral, Kaladin's childhood friend/almost-fiancee/it's complicated, have a perfect palindrome name? Or, for that matter, Rillir, Brightlord Roshone's ill-fated son who died of idiocy when he tried to kill a whitespine? Any ideas on the inconsistency? Perhaps giving your (light-eyed) kid a perfect palindrome name was less of a taboo in the countryside, but Rillir came from the capital city, where it would have been heavily frowned upon.

(Don't know what a swift is) Granted, but you're a quadriplegic. I wish for the most perfect cup of coffee ever brewed.

In most foreign countries, Way of Kings is sold in two parts because it is really, really long. You can't skip the second half. Everything happens in the second half. Everything. None of the storylines will make any sense without it.

Sja-anat presents an interesting twist if my theory is true because the letter 'J' was not present in Semetic languages. Typically, Semetic words with the letter J, such as Jehovah, are transliterated from words that originally possessed a 'Y' (although in the case of Jehovah no one knows how to pronounce it which is kind of the point). Transliteration is really weird. For Sja-anat, then, I've been looking for iterations with a 'Y' instead of the non-existent 'J', without much success.

Interesting, but I'm not sure if Tengrinism is connected to spren. If Brandon wasn't religious I wouldn't think to check the bible for possible influences.

What these all have in common is that these were all ancient gods from the Mesopotamian general area that popped up in biblical sources. Moloch gets quite a few mentions because of the child sacrifice thing. The temple that Samson brought down was Dagon's temple. These are also gods with either negative powers like death or war, or had negative qualities transposed on them. For example, Resheph actually was supposed to prevent illness. But in biblical references, he becomes the cause of disease. As for how they were dealt with, the bible basically says that these gods don't exist and the Children of Israel should beware of them as false gods, or that they might have some power and should just be avoided in general. Based on Brandon's interest and admitted influence of Kabbalah, it's quite possible that these names are all referenced in the Zohar (the big book of Kabbalah) as demons or something similar. However, the Zohar is long, weird, and really, really hard to understand (traditionally you're not supposed to even pick it up until you're 50 because if you're too young it'll blow your mind into little pieces). If anyone wants to dig through that, be my guest. I personally think Kabbalah is a bunch of entertaining nonsense, so I find it hard to take the Zohar seriously.

Did a bit of research, and these names don't fit so neatly, so maybe this is a bit of a crack theory. But I did find some fun stuff. Anyways, the best I could do with ReShephir is the Canaanite deity Resheph, the god of plague and war. Funnily enough, he came up in my Exodus class on Wednesday. However, in the death rattles ReShephir is called 'the Midnight Mother', and Resheph was a male god. Dai-gonarthis is best linked with the Mesopotamian god Dagon, who is the god of fertility, grain, and fishing. Dai-gonarthis is called "the Black Fisher" in the death rattle quote from Way of Kings. Fish. Heh. Sja-anat fits best with the Mesopotamian/Egyptian goddess Anat. Anat is a war-goddess and fairly badass. Yelig-nar sounds like something out of a Lovecraft story. I couldn't find any connection. So the big problem, besides finding no match for Yelig-nar, is that with this set of Unmade there are parts of the names that have no counterparts, such as the 'arthis' in Dai-gonarthis and the 'sja' in Sja-anat. Secondly, even if I am right and not making coincidental connections, is this anything more than a 'hey, cool' thing or is there any real significance?

So I was flipping through Words of Radiance and I noticed that the name of the spren that causes the death rattles is named Moelach. See Taravingian's POV chapter I-14 for more details. Mr. T describes Moelach in the Diagram thusly: "There is one you will watch. Though all of them have some relevance to precognition, Moelach is one of the most powerful in this regard. His touch seeps into a soul as it breaks apart from the body, creating manifestations powered by the spark of death itself. But no, this is a distraction. Deviation. Kingship. We must discuss the nature of kingship." -Epigraph Chapter 82, page 986 hardcover edition According to the questions Brandon answered on Tor.com, he based some of the Roshar magic system on the Jewish mysticism of Kabbalah. With this connection in mind, I realized that the name 'Moelach' sounds an awful lot like "Moloch", a Mesopotamian god mentioned several times in the Old Testament with a negative connotation as a foreign and false god. Moloch is rather infamous because according to the biblical text, worshippers would sacrifice children to Moloch's flames. But we're not done yet. In Mr. T's POV chapter, he brings up another evil spren named Nergaoul, who many readers think causes the Alethi Thrill: "The Thrill is at least as strong here as it is in Alethkar. Maybe stronger. I will speak to our scholars. Perhaps this will help pinpoint Nergaoul." -Chapter I-14, page 910 hardcover edition Well wouldn't you know it, but Nergal is also a Mesopotamian deity, also brought up in the bible. And Nergal is, among other things, a god of war. I don't think any of this is a coincidence. Are there any other mentions of the names of super spren? Also worth noting is that "Moloch" in Hebrew uses the same letters (מלך) as the word for 'King'. Not sure how deep Brandon got into this, but it is a bit funny that Mr. T went from Moelach to Kingship in the Diagram. Sources: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nergal http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moloch http://www.tor.com/blogs/2014/06/brandon-sanderson-answers-your-questions-about-the-way-of-kings

Page 303 of Way of Kings paperback: "Because," Jest said, "we've gotta prepare men to fight in the Tranquiline Halls." Character's name is Jost, not Jest.

How are all the names pronounced? when listening to the Splitercast Reads I noticed that Feathers pronounced many names differently than I do. A-do-lin: A as in apple, stress on the first syllable Re-NAR-in SA-dee-us shuh-LAHN Syl: pronounced like 'window sill' Tyn: pronounced like 'tin can' KAL-uh-din Also, I've heard Jasnah's name pronounced with a 'Y' in the place of the 'J.' Where did that come from? Opinions? It would be really nice if Sanderson had a pronunciation guide.

Not to rain on the parade, but I don't think any adaptation, animated or live-action, would do a suitable job. These books just aren't written in an adaptable format. I love these books so much, but I wouldn't be happy if a film or tv adaptation was announced.

At the end of WoK, Eshonai attempts to speak to Dalinar, but is interrupted by the arrival of Kaladin. Had Kaladin not shown up, would Eshonai have offered a surrender? Then the Everstorm and Stormform would have been avoided... That's kind of awful to think about. Like, GRRM-levels of awful.

Page 871 of the US hardcover edition: "Eylita held to him..." Should be "Eylita held him" or "Eylita held onto him."

Yay, reviews! I was in a uniquely unfortunate position in that I am currently in Israel, where the book isn't out yet. Luckily, my parents visited me from the US on Thusday and I gave them very specific instructions on purchasing WoR. I spent most of the weekend reading the book. Sorry, Mom and Dad. There are precisely two other books that made me cry. The first is My Sister's Keeper (don't judge please). The second is Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows. This book made me cry twice. Both times were more out of relief than anything else. The first time was during Kaladin's duel with Szeth, when he regained use of his hand. The second was Syl's return. So not emotionally prepared for that. In other news, Syl is officially my favorite character. Kaladin is second. But what truly characterized this book for me was how much time I spent laughing. From "Boots!" onwards, I couldn't stop giggling or even laughing out loud (that doodle Shallan did of Adolin with the words "sigh" written beneath was pure comic genius). I didn't expect this book to be so funny. Heartbreaking, exciting, awesome. But not funny. For me, the humor made the book even better. I loved this book. Maybe it's because I'm coming off of a massive reading high, but my goodness it was brilliant. A lot of people complained about the lack of Dalinar POVs. Dalinar quite frankly bored me in WoK, so his reduced role in this book was a huge plus. Instead, he was replaced by Adolin. Adolin was kinda sorta there in WoK but didn't make much of an impression on me otherwise. In WoR, Adokin really came into his own, becoming a fully developed character. His rivalry and blossoming friendship with Kaladin was beautiful to behold. When they got out of prison and shook hands I put the book down and did a little dance. A lot of people also complained about Kaladin's book-long snit fit. I came in expecting something really long and drawn out and dull, but I was completely engaged in his storyline. After WoK Kaladin trusts Dalinar, but he views him as the exception to the lighteyes. It makes perfect sense that he'd still be distrustful of the other lighteyes in WoR. He does trust Dalinar enough to tell him the truth about Amaram, but because of Dalinar's excessive behind-the-scenes planning, Kaladin has no idea that Dalinar really is investigating Amaram's claims and loses faith when Dalinar doesn't get back to him on it. It makes perfect sense he'd keep his surgebinding secret. And I was fed up with Elhokar back in WoK, so of course this whiny, immature king would grate on Kaladin's nerves. I loved Kaladin's development and his gradual trust of other lighteyes besides Dalinar. His realization that Elhokar was Dalinar's Tien was just beautiful. Shallan... holy cow. Shallan. Poor Shallan. Poor everyone. Shallan's character really progresses amazingly in this book. She too is really coming into her own. The girl who was too intimidated by conflict to stand up for herself is now a master con artist, fooling a deadly organization and persuading a group of deserters to help her. I am so weirdly proud of her. Eshonai's chapters were just depressing. Soooo close... A lot of people also complained about fake-outs. I actually fell for every single one of them. I was truly convinced that Jasnah, Syl, and Szeth were dead. Syl dying freaked me out to a huge extent. I just love that little spren so much. Speaking of spren, Pattern just didn't make the same impression on me that Syl did. Pattern is much less articulate and intelligent than Syl, and he just never made me feel attached to his character. Maybe he'll grow on me. Lift is awesome (get it?). Third favorite character. The world is expanding and changing and I have no idea where this is all headed. But I am so hooked.

p. 409 of US hardcover: "Why had father put a darkeyed soldier outside of the command structure?" "father" should either be capitalized or changed to "his father."

I don't think that the 'th' sound would be two separate numbers. If we're going by the Alethibet, then sounds like 'th', 'sh', and 'ch' would all be one character and therefore one number.