garlick

Honestly. The moment there was a talking rat I instant said it was the prince. Everything he did only confirmed it in my head. But the only reason I knew was from reading to many books and seeing to many movies. It just jumped out.

I've always seen investiture as unkey to start with. To use a soda fountain as an analogy, you can get different flavors of soda using different syrup but all using the same carbonated water. Investiture is the carbonated water and the syrup is the shard. The drink is keyed investiture. Mistborn gets coca cola, the dor is Dr. Pepper. When it's used it's broken back down into pure investiture and returned to the pool of carbonated water. Harmony just has access to 2 nozzles/flavors and that's what makes him stronger due to investiture being infinite.

Is it me or did the guy with the spikes sound like he was giving a death rattle?

I feel like that word of brandon was taken out of context. When burning aluminium your getting rid of the metals/investiture inside you. When a shade touches you and the withering starts, burning aluminium would destroy the investiture thats causing the withering stopping it in its tracks.

Thats true but there was an off world trade route through the pits of hathsin. TLR could of lead the ghostbloods and when he died the leadership role was gone. Our boy Kel may have seen this and when he got his body back took up the mantle. It wouldnt be the first time he was mistaken for the Lord ruler. I honestly dont think the Lord ruler was thaidakar. But if he was his death just left an opening for Kel to take over.

Keep in mind there is off world trade. The heralds were far more cosmere aware and we see plenty world hoppers on roshar. The atium mines used to have a trade route through them before they were destroyed. All it takes is one example given to someone able to soul cast aluminium then for them to pass the knowledge through the lightweavers and elsecallers. With the destruction of the orders the knowledge was lost but they could have made a lot and whats around is reused. A smart world hopper could swing by Scadrail and grab some aluminium then travel to shadesmar and make a nice profit im sure.

I would just like to point out that we have barley scratched the surface on what awakening can do. Just think of susebron when he gained his tongue back. With no training he became a one man army instantly. Even with vashers power levels in warbreaker I feel like we have only seen the equivalent of a misting where the godking is more like a fullborn in comparison. I also feel this way about surgebinding. We have barley seen whats possible with the few orders we have seen. I will agree that awakeners are underestimated.

Im having a hard time comparing the two. Spook on one hand didnt become a savant from using just using tin but from flaring it nonstop. But a mistborn compared to a surgebinder is using far less investiure. Surgebinders have extra protection against becoming a savant. So to make a comparison between the 2 is gonna be tuff. I think the fairest way to try would be to compare what they are using to the standard of their own magic systems. So in spooks case hes flaring nonstop for over a year which is far above a normal tin users daily use. As for kaladin I don't think hes using his power that much more then the standard windrunner. Hes not walking around full to the brim with stormlight all the time. Hes not using every excuse to use his powers.(let me float this cup to my hand instead of walking over to grab it). If this is the case I would see the lopen becoming a savant before kaladin. Being a savant comes from excessive use of the powers. Widening the cracks to allow more power to flow into them. And its not suppose to be easy to achieve. In this case I just feel like its increased skill from practice. Your not going to jump out of an airplane with a wing suit and instantly be good at it if you've never even been on an airplane before. Do it everyday for a few hours after a year you'll be doing stunts. Being a savant is taking that to a whole nother level.

We know in the past the heralds and others are cosmiclly aware and there was even a trade through the pits of hathsin before kelsier destroyed it. Vasher learned about shardblades from roshar and thats where the idea of an awakened blade came from. So to have aluminium show up on roshar through normal trade means isnt farfetched

I've gotten it into my head that we've seen inventions magic system. That fabrials and medallion are a part of it. They are inventions that allow normal people to tap into the magic systems. In the same way hemalurgy can be used anywhere with the right knowledge. Inventions magic can be used anywhere with the proper knowledge. Thats why the metals in fabrials and medallions have a common theme. The external is Inventions magic and the internal hemalurgy to follow the push pull theme.

I have alot of thoughts on thus, I've been on the same line of thought. Theres one question that has been bothering me. Can odium have a pure odium bondsmith spren. One of the main surges of a bondsmith is adhesion, which in RoW the singer's said adhesion is a false surge created by honor. It could simply be rayes didn't trust the fused enough with that surge or for some reason he can't grant it. And if he cant/refuses to grant it. Could a pure odium bondsmith be possible? Or would there have to be hybrids with honor or cultivation to create on. I personally feel that sja what will become a bondsmith spren for C&O and BAM of odium or H&O if odium can't grant adhesion.

I feel like cultivation had issues with Rayse. It was his choice to kill/shatter shards. It's been a theme in stormlight that honor isnt inherently good nor is odium evil. It's whos at the wheel that makes the choices. The shards may influence the holder but they still are in charge. So by taking out Rayse and giving odium to mr T her issue has been removed. I see it as a king killing the enemy king and putting one of their own on the throne. With a king that's on her side the "war" could end. So far her plan is working. But like they pointed out she can see the future but not whats inside a person. Her plan could still backfire if Mr. T takes the lessons just to turn on her.

When I saw the renarlain came to mind.

The catalyst spren/metals, fuel stormlight/stored investiture, and intent from the devices user are supplied from various planets. The device, how someone hacks into the magic system is what I'm trying to say is a part of Inventions magic. Also along the same in the same way you don't need ruins investiture to use hemalurgy, invention wouldn't need to leave investiture all over to fuel it. Its co-oped from the magics that they steal powers from.

A random thought just occured to me and I wanted to run the idea across other people to see if it might have some merit. Fabrials, medallions and any other "tech" based magic system comes from the Invention shard. These are inventions that allows people access to powers they don't have. I'm looking at hemalurgy as an example. It doesn't matter what planet you are born on as long as you have the right knowledge and intent. It spikes out an ability of one person and grants it to another. Working with the same sort of mechanics but vastly different methods. Could Inventions magic system be the reason why different planets are able to create items that recreate powers. Or am I reading to much into this line of thought?

I certainly agree with the idea that vorinism is something that's changed over the last 4500 years and the original religion is vastly different. The heralds know what honor and the other shard are, ash swore by andolisium name. I think it's more of a mixture of the singer's religion and what the heralds said. Over 5500 years things change and with every translation the meanings do also.

Im just gonna throw this thought out there. Odium said he was preparing for the future fight of the cosmere thats why he wanted roshar as a training ground. What if the tranqualline halls are on yolen.

Shardsholders don't always instantly die. Look at preservation for an example. Honor may of taken a mortal wound and died later. I dont agree with OP but honors time of death may not be proof against the idea. I've always wondered if the unmade are of odium why are they...unmade. Odium made...something...then unmade it. Whats the point when he could of made them how they are from the start. Ive always felt like they were corrupted like the sibling would be. But the power odium used on them to unmake them turned them into something of odium.

I feel like intent is used by allmoancers dor users and surgbinders. Just by burning a metal you intend to make the effect happen. The medallions cant be used unless you intend to use them for their function. The coin hoid gave wax was a coppermind but until he intended to use it as a metal mind it was just a coin. The same for the dor, the act drawing the the healing aon means you intend to heal someone. And when a windrunner lashes you to the air and you fly up thats exactly what he intended. I also feel like there's hidden abilities within these systems due to misunderstanding and having the wrong intent. In the same way having a teacher tell you about burning metal in your sleep it can be learned in a night, but on your own it takes your body a while to learn to do it. Having a teacher give you the wrong information will give you the wrong intent. I feel like A-gold is a good example. As far as we know it allows you to see different versions of yourself. That's what they are taught it does so they lack the intent to do more with it. Now this is just theory take it as you will. But if someone with a-gold met a soulforger and sees what they can do. Is it possible they see something similar in what they do? If they burned gold with the intent to swap places with a gold shadow they could become that shadow in essence soulforging themselves. Then with the correct intent and study have more control over the gold shadows they see and like a soulforger refine the shadows to become what they want.

This is pretty much what I'm thinking.

I know that goes to my original opinion that bam became one for odium and that's how she provided voidlight to the singer's. That or is a hybrid between honor and odiums power

Maybe thats how she knew warlight was possible. It may well be she is odiums bondsmith and only gave voidlight. But with her capture many things changed. I just feel like she would need to be connected to honor in someway to effect the radiant spren and turning them into dead eyes.

All the bondsmith spren seem to have different roles/personal powers. Boons and curses for the nightwatcher also I'm assuming life light, the stormfather renews spheres, and the sibling runs the tower and produces tower light. Now this is my personal opinion so take it as you wish. I think bam became a bondsmith type unmade possibly making warlight. This is assuming she was a spren of honor before she became an unmade which mixed odiums and honors lights/tones. Why did the powers seem new for the false desolation? My best guess would be thats when odium became part of roshar in the way honor and cultivation are. That's when she gained the powers of a bondsmith spren. The powers of a bondsmith is connection. Bam connected to all the singer's and also granting "voidlight". 2 things we know a bondsmith can do. Now that odiums a part of the system alot of things will change on roshar. There's new spren of odium and cultivation..renerin and rlains "truthwatcher" spren. We haven't seen other types corrupted yet but I can see this being done in the future and I feel like the dead eyes will play a role in the new "warspren". As for other unmade im not so sure all of them could become a new bondsmith spren in the future, but the ones with minds like sja anat I think the possibilities there. She already seems like a cultivation spren thats been unmade which could make the lifelight/goodnight combo. No matter who wins this contest of champions I think roshar is in for some major changes.

This sounds interesting, but I really don't see this happening. That's just a repeat of how harmony was made. Someone picks up a shard to kill another shard to allow someone to pick up both shards.

I was responding to "how would kelek know" after you quoted someone saying he may have told Nale kaladin was killed. Not him knowing kaladin was a radiant. I think I'm on the same page now its just the way the post went.