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Haelbarde

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Posts posted by Haelbarde

  2. Quick Fix 64: Spies in Starsight

    in Sanderson Elimination

    Posted

    34 minutes ago, Kasimir said:
      Hide contents

     

    On my own end, this is what the generator gives me:

    Sequence: 5 - 8 - 1 - 5

    Under KOTOR 2 rules, I believe you win due to tablemaxxing?

    Unfortunately not. The flip 2&4 doesn't apply to cards played after it, so that's a bust at 23. Tablemaxing only applies if you get a score below 20 after playing 9 cards. 

    14 minutes ago, _Stick_ said:

    Hmmm okay fair enough on the Dannex vote, but one question: If someone had asked you to explain why you had JNV in your village tiers last cycle, how would you have responded?

    It was foolish of me to put them as village in my reads, given I placed them on my slight village read because I was confident they were IC. Given that was the actual reason, I'd have had to come up with something, so I would have looked back at their posts at that point, and likely would have commented something along the lines of "They seemed earnest enough in their posts, engaging in the right sort of way to be helpful to the village, provided they do continue to post. Based on my general impression of them, without any immediate red flags to me, willing to bump them into slight village over goodish neutral vibes."

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  3. Quick Fix 64: Spies in Starsight

    in Sanderson Elimination

    Posted

    Just now, Kasimir said:

    Ah no, I actually meant it's a IKYK.

    I sort of want to say it was D2 of LG90 - Shadow straightforwardly admitted she would have NKed me N1. She got sussed for it, and there was some IKYK there, but she really was Village and was just saying it like it was.

    I haven't played with E you in a long time and the last time I did, I IDed you through voting patterns so that's what I'm sticking to. Part of me does want to give you V credit for just saying it though >>

    Heh fair enough. 

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  5. Quick Fix 64: Spies in Starsight

    in Sanderson Elimination

    Posted

    52 minutes ago, _Stick_ said:

    I do want to ask Hael why he voted for Dannex because as far as my (admittedly rushed) reread can tell, he never actually criticised Dannex nor did he flag any of his posts as suspicious so I'm curious to know why he voted there. Was it just to save Kas? Why did you want to save Kas? Kas was in your 'Baddish' vibes list, along with Dannex.

    The vibes list was a way of representing where my head was at at the time, without writing down all the specifics of what was prompting those thoughts. I can go through and actually vocalise those thoughts this cycle if you want, but I think Dannex made it on to the Badish list based on their responses earlier in cycle not feeling quite right. Again, can pull up the specifics for you in the morning. The actual choice to vote on Dannex was then based on considering the options on the Badish list, arriving on Dannex mostly by a matter of elimination. It's been awhile since I've played regularly, so although it's likely not the best strategy for supporting one's alignment, I prefer to avoid immediately killing old acquaintances. So in this case, Devo and Kas had a pass. Nerdy got a pass for it being their second game, and I don't think getting D1'd that early in one's SE career is fair. I killed TUN cycle 1 last game, after which I learned they'd recently died early in the previous few games or something, so I really didn't want to kill them first turn either. That left us with Dannex and Wiz. The decision there was based on Dannex having made more posts which seemed more significant for a bad vibe to be sticking around, than Wizards... 3 posts? Of which I think only one was noteworthy.  

    Kas' reactions last cycle after he put himself up for execution were making me strongly read Kas as village, so that then reinforced the desire to remain on Dannex to keep Kas alive, though I would have accepted a Wizard counter execution had there been enough additional interest in supporting Aman on Wizard.

    1 hour ago, _Stick_ said:

    And this is slightly too well thought-out for my comfort.

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Cycle 1 comments on rules are almost always very telling, particularly when relating to those unique to the game, or when it's more of a rolemadness game. It's funny, it's often the coinshots that best can explain the coinshot rules if anyone happens to be confused in thread :ph34r:  If you want, I can go back and find in my earlier games examples of me doing that sort of analysis before. I definitely know I've made accurate predictions based on that sort of thing before, though it's been so long since I've played that I couldn't say for sure that it is spelled out in a post, doc, or PM.

    0

  7. Quick Fix 64: Spies in Starsight

    in Sanderson Elimination

    Posted

    3 minutes ago, Amanuensis said:

    Also that's unlucky. I'm guessing JNV didn't hide their run-on-sentendencies

    Sigh. >> This is why I keep talking about opsec at the start of most games. I'd have probably night killed JNV myself just based on their posts last cycle. 

    I guess Dannex not posting was vanilla villager disengagement, rather than any sort of doc action then. :/

    23 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

    I do think it's parasitic on Fifth's paranoia. Does that suffice for you?

    Yeah, I can accept that.

    @Ookla the Omniscient Is my vote intentionally missing from Dannex?

    0

  8. Quick Fix 64: Spies in Starsight

    in Sanderson Elimination

    Posted

    4 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

    Current state of my willingness:

    No: [Fifth, Aman, Mat, Stick, Silver, Almond, Insanity, Hael]

    Sure: [Danex, Devo, TUN, Xino, Wiz, JNV, Bookwyrm]

    I've missed someone and IDK who and it's driving me crazy.

    I say this but still want to die, tbh.

    Edit: FFS missed Nerdy, he can go into No.

    I'm not sure I really understand what this is trying to say though.

    9 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

    See above. Nerdy specifically said he was voting me, right after Fifth's post, because people keep mentioning sus of me and not voting me so he went on. What do you think is the case, then? That's fundamentally a sheep of Fifth.

    I don't call that Nerdy's own paranoia, and I'd call it partly just wrong time, wrong place, where had someone else been arguing at the time, and Fifth wasn't involved, the vote could have easily gone elswhere.

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  14. Quick Fix 64: Spies in Starsight

    in Sanderson Elimination

    Posted

    5 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

    Fifth has noted his vote on me

    Isn't Fifth voting on Matt still?

    8 minutes ago, Kasimir said:

    You yourself V!read Fifth. I fail to see where that goes beyond an attitude clear and would point out that the fact you believe that is good for Fifth and bad for me seems to only be explainable by double standards. If you believe my attempts to make sense of Dannex and to voice my various thoughts of players is Evil, you can explain why.

    I'll note that I described them as vibes rather than solely reads because there's little to go on right now. Fifth got a Goodish because their posts feel par for course to me. Only reason why you're not on goodish is because I want to avoid reading you strong village out of habit, and I felt a little weird about the focus on Merlin at the time. 

    2 hours ago, Kasimir said:

    The IC does but in a different way - the dynamic I'm interested here is more in how the uninformed majority protects an informed minority against another informed minority. In other words, I'm not looking at this from the Winzik POV. I'm looking at this from the Village POV. But I also think this is a moot point so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    I've not had the chance to actually process this yet, so I hadn't adjusted anything on the reads/vibes.

    0

  15. Quick Fix 64: Spies in Starsight

    in Sanderson Elimination

    Posted · Edited by Haelbarde

    5 minutes ago, Ookla the Tall said:

    Also can someone explain to me why everyone is just… fine with Bookwyrm’s vote???

    I wouldn't say I'm fine with it so much as not having the energy to interact with it, given I feel there's little chance of response to it at this stage of the cycle.

    EDIT: The vote in question:

    9 hours ago, Ookla the Perpetual said:

    Hello, I'm here now. This game is moving fast and I'm only just figuring things out.

    Re-reading the posts so far, something is off about Dannex...Part of this is me trusting more experienced players who are also reading him as elim, and also because he seems to be doing more to deflect possible suspicion than what I've seen him do in the past.

    Time for my trademarked "This vote could be subject to change in the future."

     

    0

  16. Quick Fix 64: Spies in Starsight

    in Sanderson Elimination

    Posted

    22 hours ago, ookla the gastrointestinal said:

    Kas

     

    8 hours ago, Ookla the Nerdy said:

    Kas

    When in doubt, go for someone who other people seem to want to go up against.

     

    7 hours ago, Kasimir said:

    It's always the beginning of a proto streak. 

    See, here's what I don't understand. If you think I'm suspicious, then vote on me. I'll help you out: Kasimir.

    You seem to be saying your E!Mat issues, I quote, come from your unease about me. There are sharper comments I could make about how for all you claim Village me should be apparent by now, paranoia or you being Evil is very good at making players not see the obvious. This is easily the third or fourth game I've been paranoided on for being too noisy, too visible, too not apparently Village, whatever.

    My point is, if you are Village then I don't understand your vote. Your entailment is then from me to Mat, specifically because you don't like me pointing out that the action is weird or distracting but voting on that basis os pretty much weird too. If Mat flips V, it doesn't help you answer whether a world in which E!me defended Mat. So are you fishing about for another convenient train? 

    I mean lbr I genuinely don't care, the dead doc has Araris and I can probably talk World Cup with Szeth so if you think I am Evil, why don't you just take the shot? That's the correct order of entailment. 

     

    47 minutes ago, Ookla the Forgotten said:

    Nah, I just had a flight all day. :P

    Haven't had time to reread the thread but there's three hours to rollover so *shrug*

    I'll vote Kas for now.

     

    @Kasimir These are the votes on you. Dannex was as throw away poke vote copying your throwaway poke vote on Devo in the opening minutes of cycle, Nerdy seemed to vote for you for having people engage you in discussion. Your vote is based on a disagreement with Fifth over Mat, and Xino is an unexplained vote with no context. These players don't seem to be paranoid, just throwing votes down on active players, without giving any attention to why they're voting. I think I'd opt to vote Nerdy based on that post if not for being their second game and this being cycle 1. 

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  17. Quick Fix 64: Spies in Starsight

    in Sanderson Elimination

    Posted

    Detailed Tally

    Devo (0): Kas{1}
    Aman (0): Hael{1}
    Kas (4): Danex [Gastro]{1}, Nerdy [Nerdy]{1}, Kas{3}, Xino [Forgotten]{1}
    Hael (0): TUN [Unknown]{1}
    Danex [Gastro] (4): Kas{2}, Stick{1}, Aman{1}, JNV{1}, Bookwrym [Perpetual]{1}, Silvereye [Wind]{1}, Hael{2}
    Mat [Tall] (1): TUN [Unknown]{2}, Fifth{1}, Aman{2}
    Wizard [Myopic] (1): Aman{3}
    Stick (1): Matt [Tall]{1}
    Fifth (1): Devotary{1}

    Vote Tally
    Kas (4): Danex [Gastro]{1}, Nerdy [Nerdy]{1}, Kas{3}, Xino [Forgotten]{1}
    Danex [Gastro] (4): JNV{1}, Bookwrym [Perpetual]{1}, Silvereye [Wind]{1}, Hael{2}
    Matt [Tall] (1): Fifth{1}
    Wizard [Myopic] (1): Aman{3}
    Stick (1): Matt [Tall]{1}
    Fifth (1): Devotary{1}

    0

  18. Quick Fix 64: Spies in Starsight

    in Sanderson Elimination

    Posted

    5 hours ago, Ookla the Unknown said:

    My first game was fourteen QFs ago, so new according to your ancient origins.

    Turns out you've played 8 more games than I have. :ph34r: 

    I was about to post a vote tally based on an earlier Stick one, but then it doesn't line up with Devotary's at all, so gonna go back and do my own properly to confirm. 

    My reads/vibes of players so far are as follows: 

    Player Vibes
    Village
    - Strong: Hael
    - Moderate:
    - Slight: Stick, JNV
    Neutral
    - Goodish: Fifth, Aman
    - Meh: Silvereye (Wind), Mat (Tall), Bookwyrm (Perpetual), Xino (Forgotten)
    - Badish: Devo, Nerdy, Kas, Wiz (Myopic), TUN (Unknown), Dannex (Gastro)
    Elim
    - Slight: 
    - Moderate:
    - Strong:
    Absent
    - Infinite, Exotic

    Although I'm disinclined to vote Devo or Kas this turn. And I N1'd TUN last game, so feel like they deserve a pass. Think I'm going to put my vote on Dannex. 

    0

  19. Quick Fix 64: Spies in Starsight

    in Sanderson Elimination

    Posted

    15 hours ago, Kasimir said:

    I'm not down for lynching Aman or Fifth today.

    I'm hurt :ph34r:

    9 hours ago, Kasimir said:

    He has eight Elim games. This is a fairly narrow query. I could do this without wanting to commit seppuku.........

    Yeah okay lesgo I guess.

    Honestly I am still more sus of Danex than TUN at this point, and I bring the TUN point up despite having him as a null, but if I can I actually also want to run a Danex study - I don't have a strong memory of how E!Danex responds to pressure and while the overreaction is notable, I want to see Danex parameters too. How many E games does he have?

    Four?

    HAHAHAHAHAHA LESGO I GUESS

    Had been going to weigh in and say if TUN was a newish player I'd be tending to view them village, but sounds like they're not then. I'll try review their past games and reevaluate once I'm at a PC.

    6 hours ago, Amanuensis said:

    (Noting the noticing of Devo answering for Hael on the hedging thing.)

    (Noting Hael's last post ending with a "I'ma be back" accountability thing which I see myself do a lot more when evil + Stick's gut not loving the post either)

    I don't think you were intending to refer to me here - think it was Devo responding to Stick?

    I was going to say "look at my recent games, this is my new normal", but I think I only did so last game, and I was evil... >> I swear I'm not though. :ph34r:

    More seriously, I've been finding myself lacking motivation to actually keep up with SE games, and regardless of alignment struggling to make more than a couple short posts, particularly if no one's asking me any questions. The time accountability is/was an attempt to try and ensure I post a bit more.

    I'll unpoke Aman for the moment.

    Not sure how I feel about the amount of discussion of Merlin's when I don't really feel it's all that relevant to the discussion. At least to me, the standout issue with Merlin is their susceptibility to analysis based on their curse of knowledge. The Winzik doesn't have that curse of knowledge. The issue they have is a hole in their security, where they, and all the other members of the inner circle have to be careful to not be ID'd by their use of the doc.

    About the extent of the value of the discussion to me is that using it talking about Martin's claim based on past examples of Merlin game is a useful connection to read NAI on Mat's claim.

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  20. Quick Fix 64: Spies in Starsight

    in Sanderson Elimination

    Posted

    6 hours ago, Kasimir said:

    It would be but I can think of one or two scenarios where it's worthwhile to do so, e.g. Hal.

    Who, me? :ph34r: 

    6 hours ago, ookla the gastrointestinal said:

    If a piece of information does not help the Elim team, it should be shared with the Village.

    Well, sure. But you've got to be careful, as just because something is already known to the eliminators, doesn't mean that they can't learn things from who/how/where that information is disclosed to the larger village. Always a good idea to think through any information you disclose, as to what information might be gleaned by others. I'm quite wary of the attempts to Spartacus for example, as those rarely work as intended and tend to be quite the treasure trove of information.

    6 hours ago, Kasimir said:

    ...Anyone interested in more pazaak?

    Always. Don't have time/energy to RP right now, but figure it may be easier to RP a game knowing the turns. So I played the next match in the spoiler.

    Spoiler

    10, 2, 4, 7 + play card, 2, 10

    [10] [2] [4]
    [7] [Flip 2&4] [2]
    [10] [?] [?]

    [Flip 2&4] [X] [X] [X]

    Anyway, been a long day, and need to get some sleep, so I should be around in about 8 hours, so will actually think about the initial susses people have been throwing around then. 

    0

  23. Quick Fix 64: Spies in Starsight

    in Sanderson Elimination

    Posted

     

    13 hours ago, Kasimir said:

    "You don't need to unplay cards you've never played," said Illvin. "Time was, you ran out of cards in your hand and then folded for want of them."

    "Some friend," Illvin said. "If that takes you to Starsight, friend."

    He watched as Hal chose to continue. Made sense, at fifteen. Same for the fellow who'd just joined them. He and the other were standing at nineteen, though he fancied their odds of hitting the fully twenty, more.

    Game was long though, and with three games to go, Illvin wasn't keen on playing his hand out just yet.

    Hal shrugged. "This will leave them owing me, which made it an opportunity not worth missing."

    He pulled once again from the deck. "Damn it." He had pulled a nine, bringing his total to 24, which he couldn't fix with any one card from his hand.

    Turning to Doncie, he sighed. "I've gone bust. So the game is yours if you can land a 20."

    1

  24. GM Signups & Discussion Thread

    in Sanderson Elimination

    Posted

    1 hour ago, Ooklil' the Wei said:

    I understand the point of bt games being shorter and to test out mechanics, but also the idea that it's an idea that you can stop it if it's not working, or that it's something that people might not want to/be able to finish playing. 

    Seeing as everything I have proposed falls into the latter category, I don't want to call it anything else. 

    I think the initial idea that bts should be extremely short is flawed, because I at least personally don't want to end up being stuck in a line of MRs and LGs that ate borderline unplayable or jusy not fun long term simply because they don't fit the length "qualification"

    One of the important considerations of including Break Tanks as an additional format alongside the QF, MR, and LG formats, as far as I'm aware, was to specifically avoid any impact on the activity level of players in those standard format games. For that reason they are kept intentionally short, to prevent the limited numbers of players available from being taken away from signing up to the standard cycle of games, or to help remove any additional reason for what players we have going inactive in those games.

    The point of the break tanks, to my understanding, isn't that they're short. Nor is it about the ability to stop midway. The core idea is the testing ideas that are nearly impossible to predict how players will react to them, without letting players give it a shot first and seeing what breaks. 

    To address your game idea proposal specifically, I've two thoughts:

    1. I've had bad experiences with GMs that have varied the end of cycle time. While due to Life happening to the GMs, which I understand, one game this was a large part of a serious of circumstances that changed a game that my team could not lose into a major loss, while a few other instances did interfere somewhat with the ability to hammer as elims, or properly respond to important questions in thread. A regular cycle close time, while it can be a really painful time depending on the time and timezones, it can be relied upon and planned around. While I guess the point of you testing this would be to gauge player responses to changing cycle ends, I can already tell you that I'm a player that wouldn't be keen on the idea.
    2. I'm not keen on the possibility of cycles being less than 24 hours. The SE community covers, or at least use to, timezones from all across the world. The nature of this is that it limits the ability for everyone to be able to communicate with each other in real time. By making cycles a minimum of 24 hours long, you give all players, no matter their time zone, an equal amount of time to contribute to a cycle, without international players having to adjust their sleep cycle to even have a chance at posting in a given cycle. That fact is not something I'd want to lightly change, as to do so reduces the accessibility of the games to those international players.
      • Now, Break Tanks obviously break this rule. And for this reason, I've not been able to engage with any of the break tanks, as there's only a 3 hour window I can reliably be active in, i.e. once ever second cycle of a BT. However, it's ultimately not a big deal because of the nature of the break tanks not being proper games. 
      • You might then say that seeing as BT already break the normal timing rules, it's the perfect spot to test games that mess with the timing of cycles. But the whole point of the BT is that you're testing something which is to be eventually played as a QF, MR, or LG, and I'd argue that something with the potential for less than 24 hour cycles shouldn't ever be run in the first place. 

    So I guess then I've two questions:

    1. Is there a version of your concept that maintains 24 hour cycles as the minimum?
    2. How exactly are you intending to have the cycles reduced. Is the subsequent cycle posted immediately after the close of the previous, with the new cycle time determining the close of the new cycle? Does each cycle have a fixed start time, and the reduction in cycle length then changes the actual end of cycle time each cycle? Or in reverse, does each cycle have a fixed end time, and so the reductions in cycle length cause the cycle to start later and later?

    Finally, to address your last comment about unplayable/unfun MR/LG, Break Tanks aren't the only tool to address that, nor are they even intended to be the primary tool to address that. That's the purpose of the review committee, where at least two experienced players should have weighed in on the game before it's run. It's also part of the role of the Impartial Moderator, who might be able to comment on the specifics of your role distribution at the start of the game should that be likely to significantly impact the balance and fun of the game. 

    3
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