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Grahamfactor

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  1. Anyone have a theory on why Kaladin didn't see a "perfected" version of himself? Maybe Kaladin saw a perfected version of Moash and Moash saw a perfected version of Kaladin (which is why he was slashing at the air)? Maybe Renarin's light is more directed at Moash? I doubt that Kaladin's self-image is true enough to be immune from whatever platonic perfection-showing effects that Renarin's light has.
  2. A few comments. 1. I wonder if Renarin had some kind of vision about what was happening to Kaladin that caused him to run into a burning building to rescue him. 2. I also wonder if Renarin will be able to restore Roshone; he hasn't been dead for very long and he was killed with a normal knife... 3. I'm not too proud to say that Brandon tricked me into thinking that Kaladin had said new WORDS when he said he just wanted to save his friends and a big light appeared. Brandon trolling us with his own patterns. 4. I tend to agree that Odium's or an unmade's influence was affecting Kaladin. 5. It is interesting that Renarin disrupts Odium's influence on Moash in a similar way that Odium or the unmade (and the fabrial) disrupted Syl's connection to Kaladin.
  3. Here's my take: Group I: Kaladin, Venli, Rlain (main character) (pursuing various objectives in Alethkar). Why? Because this is a book about interactions (or at least war) between Humans, Listeners, and Singers. These three are the best suited to tell that story. Also, I recently re-read the Rlain chapter in OB. He would be an interesting radiant. Group II: Shallan and (Navani or Lift) working to uncover secrets in Urithiru. Why? Because that is where Shallan's arc is taking her. Lift can help explore and/or Navani can help with the fabrial aspects. Group III: Dalinar and Szeth, questing somewhere else. Why? Because they have to do something, but they really need to wait for book 5.
  4. There are two references in WoR that tie Venlin to ambition: First, Eshonai pretty clearly points out Venli's ambition: "Venli. I love you, but your ambition frightens me.” WOR p. 206. Second, Venli was a scholar, which the Listeners tied to ambition. "Scholarform shown for patience and thought. Beware its ambitions innate. Though study and diligence bring the reward, Loss of innocence may be one’s fate. —From the Listener Song of Listing, 69th stanza" WOR p. 258. I realize that Venli was thought to have nimbleform in WoR, but the description doesn't really match what we know of Venli: "Nimbleform has a delicate touch. Gave the gods this form to many, Tho’ once defied, by the gods they were crushed. This form craves precision and plenty." WoR p. 233. I wonder if Venli discovered scholarform, and no one else realized it. Regardless of what form she had, at least to my reading, Venli is more closely tied to ambition and fits the description of the "Traitor" than any of the other candidates. Do we know anything about book 4 yet? Do we know whether it will be Eshonai's book or is it possible it will be Venli's book?
  5. The moment when Kaladin was reunited with his parents was incredibly touching the first time I read it...to the point that I skipped over this little visual gem: That shove had better make it into the movie...
  6. Something else to consider--we know that Nin thinks (and Ishar claims) that permitting the KR/spren bonds to form risks causing a desolation (e.g., by forming a "bridge"). I've always assumed that was a mechanism for allowing voidspren to bond to the Listeners. So did the KR break their bonds to stop the desolations (the way that the heralds abandoned their oaths)? Or was Nin trying to stop desolations by ensuring that the KR (and, in particular, the Bondsmiths) never developed the ability to restart them? Or did Ishar betray everyone? See--plenty of speculation theorycrafting to go around:)
  7. So the Recreance and the breaking of the Voidbringers both involved breaking the bonds between spren and the physical world. Whether they were related or otherwise happened at roughly the same time is a tougher question. Here's what I think we know about the KR and the Recreance: The pre-recreance orders were fractured due to some "wicked think of eminence." This is related to some "secret" that Taravangian is aware of. Not all of the orders broke their oaths at the same time; The Windrunners and Stonewards were among the last of the orders to break. The orders may have fought among themselves before they broke. One of the orders remained, but "entertained great subterfuge at the expense of the others." At the time the Windrunners and Stonewards broke, they were supposed to be fighting the "enemy." After the Recreance, the remaining higher spren made a decision, by and large, to stop bonding humans. Other than the reference to the "enemy" in the chapter about Feverstone Keep, there is no indication that the Recreance involved the Listeners or the Voidbringers at all. In contrast, here is what I think we know about the Listeners and the ancient destruction of the voidbringers. Listeners take their forms by attracting and bonding the proper spren in a highstorm or everstorm. Listeners can bond with either voidspren or "normal" spren. One of the weaknesses with the Listener bond is that they are vulnerable to the influence of Odium and his spren to one degree or another, except for dullform. A Bondsmith named Melishi destroyed the "Voidbringers" using the Bondsmith's unique abilities to affect "the very nature of the Heralds and their divine duties." Melishi's actions appear to have blocked the Parshmen who were under Odium's influence--and their posterity--from bonding with any spren, voidish or otherwise. Melishi may have defeated the voidbringers by preventing the Parshmen from acquiring the mindset/emotions necessary to attract a spren to bond. Melishi's actions likely involved binding some type of uber void-spren in specially designed gemstones. The examples of trapped spren (Cucicesh and the flamespren measured by the scholars in WoK) may by related. Whatever Melishi did, it only impacted the Listener's who were under Odium's influence at the time; it did not stop the Parshendi from retaining dullform or acquiring new forms at a later time. Some (if not most) of this is debatable, at least around the edges. But given this background, it seems that the Recreance and the destruction of the Voidbringers have strong parallels (higher spren stopped forming bonds with sentient beings in the physical world), but they seem to have happened at different times and to have involved different individuals and motivations. I agree that the Recreance was voluntary and that the Parshendi taking on dullform was voluntary. But the destruction of the voidbringers / creation of the Parshmen appears to be involuntary. It's very possible that the KR betrayed the spren to save humankind. But the reference to a "wicked thing of eminence" suggests that the KR were broken by internal conflict. Of course, the Heralds were broken by an impossible choice; perhaps the KR were as well. To me, the pivotal question (based on the evidence we currently have) is 'who is the enemy" mentioned in the Feverstone Keep chapter?' Is that the voidbringers, or something else? If it is the voidbringers, then your theory (which is excellent, BTW) is probably more correct than not. But I wonder if there is some other non-voidbringer enemy in play here related to the Unmade (e.g., whoever released the "midnight essence" in the Starfall chapter, or whoever convinced the Parshendi to buy Szeth in the Oathbringer prologue).
  8. So it seems like the big question from the Oathbringer prologue is "who set up the Parshendi to have Gavilar assassinated?" We have a number of suspects: Venli, Nale/Kalak ("What we have done is wrong"), Odium or some unseen being in the Cognitive Realm, or the folks that Gavilar originally suspected--Sadeas, Restares, or Thaidakar. I was listening to TWoK yesterday and something Elhokar said jumped out at me: “They’re trying to kill me,” Elhokar said softly, huddling down in his armor. “They’ll see me dead, like my father. Sometimes I do wonder if we’re chasing after the ten fools here. The assassin in white—he was Shin.” “The Parshendi took responsibility for sending him,” Sadeas said. “Yes,” Elhokar replied. “And yet they are savages, and easily manipulated. It would be a perfect distraction, pinning the blame on a group of parshmen. We go to war for years and years, never noticing the real villains, working quietly in my own camp. They watch me. Always. Waiting. I see their faces in mirrors. Symbols, twisted, inhuman …” We usually interpret this passage as evidence that Elhokar is being followed by Cryptics, similar to several other characters who are living lies. But it struck me that Brandon may also be foreshadowing that someone inside the Alethi court is responsible for Gavilar's murder. Or perhaps he is foreshadowing that there are evil spren manipulating everything? Anyone have any theories on people in the Alethi court or otherwise who might have the motive and ability to speak in the minds of the Parshendi?
  9. This is kind of a minor thing, but I wish we knew what Kaladin was really thinking when There's just no way his stated explanation is complete. Why then? Was he afraid of Dalinar, Shallan, or Elokar piecing together what had really happened? Why was he suddenly racing to after all these years of ignoring them. Would be great to have had a PoV explaining his thoughts. The Oathbringer reading from 2014 didn't really get into this.
  10. We know that Chasmfiends can hold spren, since they release spren when they die; perhaps they are also subject to control by the Parshendi "gods" sneaking into their gemhearts?
  11. Yes, but that is also true of Jasnah and the Skybreakers. For Jasnah, hiring assassins and murderous vigilantism is both illegal and deplorable, at least in the real world. Jasnah's violence against traitors and attempted murderers/rapists is one thing; the Skybreakers are killing relative innocents. The Skybreakers may hide behind the law, but they are seen pursuing their objectives by persuading others to change the apparent in-world legal norms (e.g., by authorizing execution without trials in otherwise highly process-driven legal systems). So the Skybreakers change the law to get away with murder. They are committed to legalism, not true justice. But that's a tangent. The point is that I don't think Amaram is any different than the Skybreakers from the perspective of taking innocent life; they both do it in the name of saving Roshar and in the name of some ideal. The fact that they have different justifications means that Amaram can't be a Skybreaker; it doesn't mean that his actions or the actions of the other Sons of Honor would disqualify them from being Radiants. We've seen that you can do very bad things and be a Radiant. In-world, as long as you are totally committed to one aspect of doing "good," you can be a Radiant regardless of how bad your actions would be seen when viewed through other lenses of morality.
  12. I agree that it's fairly likely that the secret societies will have access to powered individuals; whether it is some brand of voidbinding, off-world magic, fabrials, heraldic powers, or some other source. Most of these organizations are actively looking for power; it would be surprising if they don't find it. Alternatively, with some new power sources being able to bridge the gap from the cognitive to the physical, the secret societies seem like willing vehicles to deploy that power. That said, all of the Radiants we have seen so far have been genuinely committed to some type of goodness or at least righteousness. Their methods and even actions can range from selfless and heroic (for the most part, Kaladin/Shallan/Dalinar/Lift/Ym), to hypertechnical, criminal, or even evil (think Jasnah's murders, or the Skybreakers' actions in general). But I think that highlights one of the main points of the series, and perhaps even the cosmere in general--that commitment to a single ideal, no matter how laudable in the abstract, leaves too much wiggle room to justify one's actions (think Kaladin and Moash betraying Elhokar to "protect" the kingdom). In real life, every laudable ideal requires context and an understanding of its limitations. But on Roshar, spren give power to those who demonstrate singular devotion to one of the Radiant ideals representing some form of good in the world. Of the secret societies, the only one who appear to have thought they were genuinely doing good were the Sons of Honor. Gavilar was committed to the codes (and other objectives described in the Oathbringer prologue), and Amaram truly believed he did the right thing when he killed Kaladin's men and branded him a slave. So I could see a Son of Honor attracting a spren based on that self-assured committment to "honor." Amaram as a Radiant would be quite the twist, as would Amaram with an honorblade pretending to be a Radiant. For the others, Taravangian has an element of doing good (trying to save humanity), but his "Diagram" appears to be influencing his followers to do things that would harm humanity. My guess is that he has attracted the attention of a spren--but not the sort spren that would make one a Radiant. The Ghostbloods appear to have no committment to any ideal, so it is hard to see them becoming a Radiant.
  13. It's a little late, but here's my list: 1. Kaladin returns to Hearthstone, and rescues a bunch of tranformed Parshmen being mistreated. By following him to safety, the Parshmen become proto-squires who are immune from Odium's influence. 2. Along the way, Kaladin, Roshone, and the collection of spheres are in the same place at the same time. Kaladin uses them to replenish his stormlight and impose conveniently righteous retribution on Roshone. 3. Shallan finds a book in the depths of urithuru called Oathbringer that explains how the Knights Radiant went from surgebinders having Oaths, through Ishar's influence. 4. Adolin goes back th reclaim his father's blade Oathbringer and finds it missing. At the same time, he is asked to release the bond to his blade so that he can bond the Honorblade. After releasing his blade but before finishing the new bond, Renarin reveals that he took Oathbringer, but he has to reveal the crime to Dalinar so that he doesn't break his oaths. 5. Adolin is teleported back to the Shattered plains by Shallan with nothing but his plate. He is taken by the non-Stormform Parshendi, and thrown in prison with Eshonai, who has also lost her blade. Adolin helps her escape, and she is able to avoid the influence of the unmade long enough to change to another form. 6. Dalinar tries to convince the other nations to find their surgebinders and unlock their Oathgates. The nations all refuse because they think it is a trick from the blackthorn. Except that Taravangian allows Vedenar's gate to be opened. Dalinar trusts Taravangian and allows himself to be maneuvered into putting his forces in danger. 7. Turns out that Jashnah knew what Taravangian was all along, and returns in time to save Dalinar's armies and Vedenar. 8. Nale sends Szeth to kill Ishar for betraying the Heralds. 9. Kaladin meets up with his father and with Amaram in Kholinar. Amaram is, probably insincerely, apologizing to Lirin. 10. Dalinar's bond allows the Stormfather to begin to heal from the wounds suffered during the Recreance. With the Stormfather's blessing, many more spren come to the physical realm to bond humans (and, at the very end of the book, Eshonai, under the watchful gaze of Hoid). Sharders everywhere squeal in delight at the layered meanings of "Oathbringer."
  14. My current theory is that Dalinar went to the Nightwatcher after Gavilar's murder and asked "what are the most important words a man can say?" As his boon, he learned the 2nd oath for the Bondsmiths (I will unite not divide, etc.), and as his curse, he forgot everything about his wife. This would explain how Dalinar knows the WORDS at the end of WOR, and it has the symmetry that we often associate with the Nightwatcher (learning something important and forgetting something just as important). Thoughts?
  15. Or it could be another surgebinder saying the Words, in reaction to the same thing that caused Adolin to scream... "A crack shook the air, like an enormous clap of thunder, though the sky was completely clear. Teft stumbled back--having just set the bridge in place--and found himself gaping with the rest of Bridge Four.... [you know what happens next]"
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