Treach

Not to be pedantic or go on a tangent, but I'm not sure there were Honorspren when the Unmade came about. The SF only made 5 initially, and Syl bonded (her only other radiant as far as we know) close enough to the recreance that she was "asleep" and missed/was saved from it. It seems like he may have created her and the other four sometime between Aharietiam and the Recreance? Also, we know the mural in Urithiru depicts a Windspren instead of an Honorspren in the 10, which seems it would have reasoning behind it. Largely though I agree, there are obvious parallels and Re-Shephir specifically has a strong connection to Shallan. However, Shallan also speculates that she may have been a Creationspren. But later speculates she may be searching for humanity that she lost, implying that she may have once been human.

So just a few things to add here. 1) We have WOB saying the unmade would be considered "native"; however, this could just mean they were unmade on Roshar. That being said, the way BAM's imprisonment affected all of Roshar leads me to believe she at least is possibly more foundational to the planet than the others. 2) We do not know where Ambition was finally splintered. IIRC we do know Ambition fled Threnody and was eventually finally shattered elsewhere. 3) Yelig-Nar and Ba-Ado-Mishram specifically take naming convention from a different inspiration than the others. (Lovecraft rather than Semitic god/godesses.) 4) There is a good bit of interplay between Threnody, Ashyn, and Roshar through use of the word "Silence". Could be coincidence, but nonetheless. 5) Brandon has been coy enough with answers that we we can speculate the earthquake on Sel may have been a result of something that happened on Roshar. I don't think we have a precise enough timeline on the events of Elantris to pin point what it could have been, but the imprisonment of BAM could fit I think? If that were the case, we could probably speculate further on Yelig-Nar and Ba-Ado-Mishram having connections to Dominion and Devotion. I think him taking shards of other conquered foes and making them "unmade" can make a lot of sense. We know he has kind of struggled to finding a good way to keep the investiture from being picked up or gaining sentience on its own, unmaking them and effectively making bargain bin avatars seems like a good solution for his needs. However, we also know that Roshar was made not long before the shattering. History repeating, time is a flat circle, etc... We see how Honor strategically made splinters of himself before he finally was shattered completely. Maybe Adonalsium did the same before his shattering, seems very plausible that Roshar could have held one or more splinters of Adonalsium before the shattering even happened. So that could be a source for some/all of the unmade as well.

It just occurred to me how that chain of events, possibly, unfolded. Szeth: The Voidbringers are coming back, and I can hear this spren who is trying to bond me. Dad: You're a filthy liar. I'm naming you truthless and using my magical Bondsmith piece of god to bind you to a rock so you have to do whatever its holder tells you. No, you can't kill yourself either, that's too good for the likes of you. Szeth: What about the magic sword? Dad: Keep it, we will get it when you die. Be gone. Father of the year award nominee right there.

I'm definitely inclined to believe there is more at play than her just being her daughter. 4,500 years is a long time for 9 people to live and only have one child. Not that they couldn't have others running around, but it seems like it would come up at some point seeing as the implication is the children would have extraordinary abilities.

I think this one may actually refer to Ashyn. If you've read the excerpt from The Silence Divine, the storms would be the fire. They are "above" the floating city from the cities perspective, but the cities are also above the fires since the cities are upside down.

I would also add the similarity between the chart and this chart of Yog-Sothoth. Kind of thought the similarly presented visualization may be a little easter egg, which may have more interesting implications since Ba-Ado-Mishram's and Yelig-Nar's names are inspired by Cythulhu Mythos deities.

On the Heralds and healing their madness. TSM Spoilers. Wouldn't it stand to reason that if anything could accomplish something similar, it would be something that can and will literally drain your soul? They could do so by wielding it and letting it feed, but maybe an experienced enough wielder could specifically identify to NB which bits are "evil"? Just a thought, I don't see siphoning off a bit of their soul as something NB isn't capable of.

I think it means what it says. Either our timeline is off and the heralds were made before the war, or the Odium/Honor swap happened after the Heralds. Either way, when it was made, Jezrien wasn’t using it to kill Thunderclasts.

I have a different but similar theory. Honor didn’t die, exactly, but Odium overtook him as a rhythm of Roshar. Futher speculation being a bondsmith took that bond from him. At this point, part of Roshar’s nature shifted from Honor to Odium. But, we know Odium’s soul is splintered, so he isn’t the sole source of his connection on Roshar. So, after, the imprisonment of Mishram was similar to what locking honor off from Roshar would have been prior to that point. Further theory: El was Tanavast, and has been stripped of, or separated from, his rhythms and titles (his shard). Ishar is the binder of gods (plural). The Oathpact wasn’t just meant to confine Odium, it was to confine both Honor and Odium. This is why both Heralds and Fused are bound to Braise. The Recreance didn’t happen just because of knowledge of Ashyn, but because they learned this and that the conflict was both of them trying to break free of that bond by pushing one or the other into a contract. They realized, as Wit explains, they can only win by not playing.

My input isn’t a rebuttal, more of a note. I don’t think it’s plausible that Cultivation could make him smarter than herself and, as a shard, she also has access to Fortune. So under your assumption, the logical take is that Cultivation pushed him toward this specific end. We also see indication that she gave him dumb days specifically to trick Odium. I think the most interesting thing about smart Taravangian is that emotionally he is the opposite of Odium. Odium is passion, and smart Taravangian has none.

Want to point out potential context misdirection, most read this and think “destroy us” means Roshar, but remember this is written by a sleepless. Roshar doesn’t need to be redeemed, it’s a planet and there is no reason to believe Roshar as a whole has failed. We don’t know what the sleepless may have done in the past, but we know the Radiants turned against them, and the Heralds abandoned them, so it isn’t a stretch to assume they did something that necessitates redemption. So my opinion is this isn’t saying one of them will destroy Roshar, but one of them will destroy the Sleepless (or at least one(s)on Roshar). Also, they are essentially all connected. I think it’s plausible they could redeem one, and destroy another, and the prophecy still fit.

The biggest loophole I see isn’t really a loophole. Dalinar’s encounter with Ishar shows us Ishar, or presumably Navani, can actually take the bond of the contract from Dalinar. And I think the more impactful implication is, if they can take it from Dalinar, they could also take it from Odium. The other thing we know is that Dalinar “as the largest portion of Honor’s power” can release Odium from Honor’s bonds. So if one side wanted/needed, the other could actually release them from the contract. To the baby theory, I’m increasingly convinced people are taking it too literally. This is referring to Nightblood. The suckling child is nightblood, (the use of him and it tells us the child is not whose throat the knife is held to) and the wielder has a metaphorical knife to someone’s throat. All they have to do is let the blade slip from its sheathe, it’s blood (black smoke/mist/investiture) spill over his hands and onto the ground. Nightblood feasts off the wielder when it runs out of investiture (breaths) to drink from its victims, letting it claim the target would give it and the wielder more breath to draw. Szeth (I assume) is going to die because he refuses to unsheathe NB.

I agree, I actually think Dalinar fits some of the prophecy better than Sazed. Most of it that doesn’t include the Terris people, actually. For example: The phrase “a force” is used to describe shards and spren fairly often, and people in a few cases, but always people who are highly invested. The Lord Ruler, Vin, Kaladin by Moash in RoW. In TWoK Dalinar is the only person referenced as a force, well before he bonds the stormfather or Ascends in Oathkeeper.

This makes sense. Big America vibes from Autonomy: We are self governing and you should be too, in the way we deem appropriate. Supporting and orchestrating the upheaval of existing structure, then installing a system of government Autonomy approves of through her avatar. Even to the detail of her followers on world being chosen to lead the new system. If all else fails, invade directly.

So a magic system we’ve seen, and an army that doesn’t need constant supplies. Sounds a lot like Awakening.

I have a lot of thoughts on this, I’ll start with the text. We have two mentions of both discord and harmony in SA. These are probably just nods to Mistborn, but the later being from RW makes me confident they are at least intentional. I think Discord is Sazed, but there is a chance this is a red herring. In that case, I would argue Taravangian has taken the name Discord, especially if he’s taken up another shard. His tone is referred to as Discord, people are referred to as discord, and the Singers claim Odium is the humans god. We know that to this point Odium has avoided doing that, but Taravangian is not Rayse and has had very little time for Odium’s intent to take over and drive the boat so to speak. He came to Roshar via refugees, and Horneater refugees are on the way to Scadrial. Discord could be nearer than we think. Back to Harmony. In theory, Harmony shouldn’t really be possible for the shards Sazed holds, because they are not equal. When Preservation created Scadrial, he invested some of himself into all people. This leaves him inherently weaker than Ruin. Aside from the well, he countered this by making some of Ruins power coalesce physically - Atium. This is why Ruin couldn’t destroy the planet or act fully after Vin freed him, because he didn’t have the Atium hoard and therefore didn’t have all of his power. Now we venture into some speculation, although I would argue well founded speculation. After the Catacendre, Sazed is Harmony. Which shouldn’t be possible, since ruin is stronger than Preservation, right? Except, there was Atium left from before, so Ruin was weakened and roughly the same strength as Preservation, allowing Harmony. The trouble being that Atium no longer forms naturally, as far as we know, Sazed apparently stopped this when he remade the world. And as we see in TLM, they have used all they had up keeping Marsh going. So essentially, over time as they use up the Atium that no longer reforms, Ruins power has returned to Sazed and he has steadily become more skewed toward ruin. Sazed shows us in the words of founding that he is very aware of how the Lord Ruler designed the world, and as a Terrisman he was well aware that he would be named Discord, so I seriously doubt his removing the Pits was an oversight. I suspect he has long planned to slowly become Discord, giving weight to him telling Kelsier he “has it all in hand” when Kelsier expresses concern. I think his Intent will still be driven by both Ruin and Preservation, but the door opens for more use of Ruin to ultimately Preserve. Essentially, as Syl implies, Sazed is becoming a God who can act like a human.