KaladinWorldsinger

I think this is exactly what happened. This is a very human reaction and the whole point of the book is that he doesn't have time for it to truly sink in. The book opens with rebeke in shock after her brother died too.

But the death rattles call Shallan a man. Not literal at all. "Two men come from the chasma with a heart in their hand, and i know I have seen true glory" (Talking about kal and Shallan coming out of the chasms in Wor)

Well, Renarin hasn't done anything major yet. He is a just a Radiant who helps in the war. Obviously he will be referred to as the 'son of thorns' when Dalinar is basically creating a new religion. It's like how the public will think of teft as kal's second in command

I think it can easily be both the fan response and in-world response since they are caused by very similar things. What I meant was that a lot of Jasnah can be covered with utilitarianism, atheism, her intelligence. The character, to me atleast, is deceptively simple and the only reason for confusion is the controversial beliefs she has for fans and characters alike. She is literally a utilitarian in a world where the god is Honor and the main villain is a utilitarian. She is an atheist in a medieval world seemingly filled with gods, which is very confusing to more religious people. The context makes it confusing, but she herself isn't. You don't need to know the entire past of a character to understand them. Like nothing in this reading has really surprised me about the character you know? Just because she is a main character doesn't mean that she is automatically complicated. Kaladin Shallan Dalinar Adolin Venli Lift aren't very complicated characters right?

Well it is the Vorin Calender, which means that whatever happened was important to vorinism in particular. The only thing I can think of is the five Vorin nations were established or something. Or the five made a coalition based on their religious commonality and decided on a calender. And since they were very powerful kingdoms, the rest of the world was stuck with it. Sadly, there is a wob where Brandon admits he doesn't remember, so probably unimportant. Interestingly, Hoid mentions that he hadn't seen rayse in 'over a thousand years'. The only thing that happened during that time was the creation of the Vorin Calender. Who knows?

This feels like Brandon calling out the fan response to Jasnah a little. For a character with comparatively very little screentime, there is quite a lot of spirited discussion on her morality and her atheism when Jasnah really isn't that complicated of a character.

You just blew my mind with logicspren. I have been wondering soooo long why logicspren are shaped like stormclouds

The text specifically implies that they were beings of incredible willpower first, refusing to be controlled, and then mentions that they were highly invested. It doesn't specify how important that was. I definitely think that the yoko-hijo are strong willed as in self-disciplined, self-controlled. They are incredible hard workers. That's what they choose to do after all. But self-discipline has nothing to do with assertiveness. They are very different skillsets. In fact I think the yoko-hijo should be very low on that scale and be completely unable to resist the machine, more than even the average person. Yumi is really, really scared to ask for a visit to the festival on her birthday. How can someone like that 'refuse to be controlled' when no one else on the planet could? For an accommodating person, it is hard to switch the other way and be assertive all of a sudden. I think all pushovers would agree, it is hard to stand up for yourself. She has momentum in being accommodating (borrowing the idea from tress), it would be very hard to change course. Oh no, I am happy to discuss. My initial post was angry because I needed to let that out(a lot of the book rubs me the wrong way), but i definitely want to understand why some people love this so much when I don't.

Then shouldn't there be more people who were able to resist the shroud? What makes the yoko-hijo special? And if the other 13 had better living conditions, then where did yumi get her willpower from? Was she just born with it? They don't get to meet and interact with people much, they don't get to make choices for themselves, nearly every day of their life is very similar. That is why I don't think they could have well developed senses of identity. What other way is there to gain it? I think there is direct thought from Yumi about how she didn't know what she exactly wanted anymore, but I can't find it.

(The more I wrote the post, the more angrier and angrier I got because man this book really bothers me) People who love this romance... What does yumi see in painter? I can see what painter likes in yumi. Yumi is willful, responsible, assertive, duty-minded. There's a lot to respect about Yumi But painter on the other hand... He is certainly brave as a nightmare painter but yumi doesn't see that side of him till a lot later in the book. He is kind, but he doesn't really show anything much more than basic human decency? Not does Yumi ever comment on him being kind. So what does yumi see in painter? He is free-spirited sure, but again there is nothing that shows Yumi noticing this particularly and liking it. Is there any moment where she is impressed by anything that painter does? Or the type of person he is? Ven when he talks about how his creative process of making art is, painter doesn't really teach yumi to appreciate art that way. Instead he just makes her draw bamboo. Even she is disappointed by it. He is a very passive character, while yumi is very active and constantly making decisions and having full control of the flow of the story. And then the lies. Painter isn't just someone, who let's people put their hopes on him and he is too afraid to correct them. He lies through his teeth. With yumi: Why would you lie like that, painter? I get wanting to not let down a person, when they are hopeful. But actively choosing to lie and increase their expectations? This dude is a huuuge liar. What reason could you have to say this than making yourself feel important? The way this is addressed is just soooo wrong too. I mean... Um.. WHAT? That is so not the primary motivating factor for painter. He found out that he wasn't selected for the dreamwatch. At that point, his friends dreams are already crushed. It's done. If he truly cared about not hurting the people he loved, he would have told them the truth after a day or two. Because bringing their hopes up is setting them for a bigger fall. But he strings them along for A YEAR! Why does he do that? Because of his need for validation, his ego. What he did was not kind in any way, it was selfish. Now, i fully understand what painter did, because I relate hard to him. I have done what he did many times. But the truth remains he did it for validation, for their approval, for their respect. He could not bear their looks of disappointment. That needs to be acknowledged. He was a weak man, too weak to tell the truth. Everything said here is wrong. He pretended to be great, it is definitely the action of a liar. Just because he dreams of being useful to people doesnt mean he is not a liar. He did take advantage of them. Their ignorance. And his gain was being able to escape their looks of disappointment. Protecting his ego. This is wishy-washy to the extreme. I mean come on, answers are not simple? In any other story the quote would instead have been Then it would make sense. Painter genuinely trying to change is something she can appreciate, respect and fall in love with. But nope, 'answers are never simple' apparently. Rejoice everyone, no more morality! This quote would have been totally fine if NOT FOR THE LAST LINE! How is it his friends fault that he chose to give them their dreams???? If you remember There is no indication that his friends forced him to make them his companions. HE promised them. There is absolutely nothing unfair happening to Nikaro here. This dude doesn't even seem to have apologized. The way the ending apology is written, it totally looks like this is the first time he sincerely apologizes for what he did to them.(He seems to have just avoided them before this, from my guess) All in all, he isn't the worst or the spawn of Satan, but he is a very weak man till the ending of the story. And it will always confuse me what a strong person would find attractive in a weak person. If you are not tired, let's talk about Yumi too. She makes me uncomfortable, not because of her character, but because of the implications around her character. So at first, Yumi has trouble asserting herself and her needs before Liyun. Makes sense. She gets regularly emotionally abused by her after all. So ofcourse i thought she would be meek, gentle, humble, shy, pushover etc. But then the script changes, and she becomes wilful, stubborn, active, assertive while still scared of Liyun. Ok, intriguing... This isn't like yumi is special among Yoko hijo tho... Apparently, all the yoko-hijo are people with strong willpower. My question is strong-willed in what way exactly? Strong willed as in highly self-disciplined? This makes sense as they are regularly guilt-tripped into doing their work, so of course they will be good workers(stacking rocks) But how did that help them refuse to be bound to the shroud? That sounds like strong-willed as in willful, assertive, a strong sense of Identity etc. Which yoko-hijos should be low on because of their upbringing. I mean, they are regularly told that they are not a person too. They aren't even allowed to choose their dresses. How would they truly know what they want? When they have no real experiences? This also leads into the uncomfortable territory of pain(and abuse) cause strength. It's the age old question of 'should the wizarding world thank the Dursleys for emotionally torturing Harry until he became exactly the strong willed hero they needed?' Like the machine would have outright won if not for these 14 women who were treated inhumanely. Thank God for that religion. I guess if I want a son who is a wilful person, I better start pressuring him with guilt-trips and the weight of my expectations.... Good to know Phew, that was a load of my chest.

So could some people design their headmates in the exact way they want them? Like how authors create characters? Ah, my question was if Veil in Words of Radiance should be considered an alter or persona, not Rhythm of war. By then, she is definitely an alter in my mind. Thank you for your answers. They were very enlightening

So when I started reading stormlight archive, I had absolutely no idea that shallan had DID even during oathbringer simply because I did not understand the disease.. That probably affected my enjoyment of her arc more than anything. If I had somehow known that she had DID right from the beginning of OB, I would have really enjoyed it and understood her arc more. But now, years later i understand a lot more about DID because of researching for shows and characters like Moon Knight and Two-Face. ROW read greatly for me and I think it is the best written Shallan arc yet. But I am no expert on DID, so I am still confused about the previous books and get more confused when I read them. Someone more knowledgeable l, please help me out 1) So DID is commonly caused by childhood trauma, right? A child's brain creates alters to create a safe space or disassociate from trauma. My question is, how usual is it to for people who become adults to create new alters? Like in Shallan's example, she creates alters long after her trauma right? Her adult life isn't as taxing as her younger life(generally), so is she (and anyone with DID) always in a slight danger of creating new alters no matter how old they are? 2) How does someone create an alter so consciously like Shallan? She is very hyper aware in exactly what alter she is creating all the time. Is this realistic? The way I understood it was that the alters personality and traits are more subconsciously created. You have some control, but not exact control like Shallan right? Shallan knows exactly what she is going to get when creating veil and radiant. Is that possible? 3) Shouldn't there be more amnesia? I know the common cliche is that the 'violent evil atler' triggers and you lose time and wake up with blood over you but the truth is more nuanced than that. But shouldn't Shallan be losing time a little? At the beginning when her alters are newly created and she has less control over them? 4) is Veil in WoR a persona of Shallan or an alter? It reads like a persona to me and somewhere in OB it becomes a proper alter. Meanwhile Radiant seems like an alter from the get go. Am I wrong in this. Because the the name 'veil' is significant and seems to imply she was always a hidden alter. Another question I have is, is Shallan allowed to shut down Veil's attraction towards Kaladin? I have heard that people with DID consider themselves to be many people in one body. But here, Shallan takes control of the decision even though Veil and even Radiant at the end preferred Kaladin. Is that ok? I realise I have probably gotten a lot of things wrong, please feel free to correct me

Oof, that's a common sentiment

Instead of fluctuating between two extremes, i think it is more correct to say 'I am doing what I want'. She has good reasons to do that. She wants to get her body back, and second she finally has freedom after 19 years, so she uses it. Nightmare doesn't seem to particularly mind with yumi disobeying him( he just seems uncomfortable about them potentially revealing his secret), and she feels justified in not listening to him at all because he was a baldfaced liar. It certainly did not help his 'first' impression that he peeked again( the stare down scene). So I don't think she was much of a hypocrite at all, she was finally just having people to talk to and she wanted to

From the article that you linked That is to say, when the (usually) woman develops affection for the other character but is embarrassed and tries to hide it by acting tough and uncaring. An example of a quote from a tsundere will be I think we can agree, yumi is nowhere like that. She genuinely dislikes painter at the start(after the lie is revealed)