Lanaya

So I'm saying that the fused can potentially steal Nightblood and lock it away. You're saying any lock can be picked. I believe you are underestimating the precautions the fused/Todium would take if they secured Nightblood. I'm basically saying your theory of Szeth cleansing Roshar is way too optimistic and there are other realistic scenarios that anti light provides the Radiants with.

I just read this and I have to comment: Are you using possibly the most insane person that we've seen so far in the cosmere to justify someone else's sanity level?

Well I don't think the fused will advertise a hackathon for any Radiant to participate in. You realize you are using the best case scenarios right?

Oh I never said they would use Nightblood. I just figured they would lock away the infinite ammo, infinite range, auto-aim weapon away and leave the Radiants without an option.

You are also risking giving the enemy Nightblood. You are assuming best case scenarios too much I think.

Yes and there is more than one solider on the Radiant side. Do you not want to equip them with weapons that can kill fused?

The answer is in your question. Because it can't be replicated.

That we can genuinely agree on. I'm not saying that Navani is Roshar's Nikola Tesla (although she is the best mind that the Radiant side have in terms of advancing their technology). I'm just saying that lets not downplay her contribution towards the cause.

I agree. I don't understand why there are different types of guns? We should have just stopped at the first one.

He said discovered not created. Either way, you're right of course; why would we give credit to a person that has discovered a way to kill the fused and help the war effort?

Yes that trophy is looking shiny in an unknown's persons collection who is currently adding zero value to the war effort while Navani is continuing to accrue the advantage/information for the radiant side.

Doesnt matter how long I've been here...besides you and maybe a couple of others, the replies I've gotten so far are "NOPE I DONT AGREE" while I am writing so many points to make my argument. So you can understand the frustration kolo? I get your point of Kaladin unifying people that are close to ending their life but is that the only measure of unification now? So the manager at any workplace shouldn't get credit for doing a good job since he is just managing like minded people? Anyways I don't have much more to say on this topic. Sorry if I disrespected anyone but we can agree to disagree at this point.

That's my whole point...Who had the foresight of designing a flying ship? Were fabrials having a great boom during Gavilar's reign? I actually stopped responding to you specifically on a previous thread because you offer no counter arguments and literally said "I don't agree with your statement". If you actually want to offer input instead of just saying "I don't agree", i will respond but so far I haven't seen much.

Uniting Bridge 4 is a great feat and I agree with you that Kaladin is a very good 'unifier' and not a divider. With that said, I will use the same logic other people have used against Navani to undermine his feat: 'He just united people that were already there and working towards the goal of being the best bridge crew' - Where did the scholars get the direction and design for their fabrials? Where did they get the funding from? Was there a fabrial boom during Gavilar's reign? 'It was actually Teft that did a lot of the grunt work while Kaladin just ordered people around' - Everyone needs help. Navani needs help. Kaladin needs help. Dalinar needs help. 'Rock started the tradition of the stew which Bridge 4 hold so closely' - We don't talk about the ripple effects of having Navani in charge but I feel like the scholars/fabrial designers are at ease right now knowing they have a leader like Navani looking after them. The thing I want to get across is that you can turn a lot of things against each other because you've made up your mind and refuse to see the other side. I believe Kaladin and Dalinar are great unifiers but who else? We can discount current radiants since we haven't seen anyone bond 2 spren yet.

Lets ask another question to the people that think Navani doesn't unify: Who besides Dalinar has brought more people together than Navani and actually achieved results? Also, we should dismiss the idea that Dalinar united Roshar by himself, he leaned on Navani a lot. This lady united the tunes of odium+honor - something one of the smartest fused thought impossible.

I accept that she is in charge because of who she married but that doesn't mean she has to do a good job. Aesudan/Elhokar are prime examples of bad rulers although Elhokar was getting better at the end. I don't want you to look at this and try to shift the conversation towards Elhokar/Aesudan, we just have to agree that someone in charge doesn't have to be good. This is my prime argument for Navani--> She was 'gifted' her rule but did a great job with it and here is why (most are copy pasted from coppermind): -She is the prime reason the dawnchant was translated - she made a connection and got her team of scholars to decipher it -'Navani helped Dalinar build their first plan for unification and strength of the crown. They decided to attack on different fronts: economical (changes to the manner of collection and distribution of gemhearts on the Shattered Plains), fear (Adolin would duel to earn Shardblades) and political (Dalinar and Navani would try to persuade the benefits of a unified Alethkar).[33] It is clear she suggested having allies that would unite based on loyalty and not fear' - taken directly from coppermind -'On the way to battle, Navani became close to Shallan and her work. Confirming she would not take the project from her, but would participate and get her scholars to work for her as well '- She helped discover Urithiru -'Once at Urithiru, she continued to transcribe the visions in much more detail now that Dalinar could replay them at will. After Odium manifested on one vision, he decided his next action would be to unite all of Roshar and asked Navani to help him. He believed that his tenacity and her brilliance together would convince the other kingdoms to join with them' - Dalinar asks for Navani's help so they can reunite Roshar -She led the first meeting of all the monarchs and wanted it to succeed -She entrusted the mission to explore Aimia to Rysn and her crew and sent along a few scholars + windrunners -Engineered/designed the fourth bridge with her team I can keep going but a lot of the ROW stuff has been covered. One look at the coppermind and it shows you how much of a hand she has in bringing people together or giving them the direction they need to get a positive result.

I think the Sibling wanted someone she could directly control like Dabbid because she thinks humans are too smart for their own good and ask too many questions. IMO, that is what she means when she says Navani is not worthy. I think us the audience can conclude she is more than worthy (capability wise) given that she found anti voidlight and was praised highly by possibly the smartest fused. And I agree with your assessment that the sibling took the bond out of necessity but life before death right?

So this is where I argue for Urithiru. Shouldn't the heralds + radiants recognized that this place is the best base of operations they have? Shouldn't they have tried to recruit everyone they could to this tower? I doubt the people would disagree to go if they were asked by a god/radiant.

I agree Navani becoming a bondsmith was never explicitly foreshadowed. However, her actions and what people think of her coincides with her becoming one. She literally brings all the scholars together and has them working on different projects with the goal of understanding and progressing fabrial mechanics to better prepare them for Odium. She is well respected by all the coalition members and I think she was the one to lead their first meeting? She is the one that makes things happen in the background and is directly responsible for giving the coalation a tactical advantage with teh flying ship. She may not have created the flying ship herself, but she had a big part in it by uniting the best people and pointing them in the right direction. Her encouragement and willingness to give resources to those who are capable makes her a great bondsmith to me. As a side note, she reminds me of Dockson; Dockson didn't get high praise for what he did but what he did was essential to any of Kelsier's jobs. Given these things + more, it makes too much sense for her to bond the tower spren giving her the ultimate access to the most intricate fabrial.

Battle shock is definitely one reason he wasn't speaking but a bigger reason was because he was told he was dumb his whole life and didn't want to ruin Bridge 4's perception of him

Yes all good points, the singers would eventually get the numerical advantage as the years passed by. And as per the first chapter, Kelek had already reached a certain madness and wasn't willing to go to Braize. In prior desolations, the fused had to wait until the next desolation to respawn if they died so if I was planning for a desolation, I would try to fight as many small scale battles as I could to suppress the number advantage and wipe out as many fused as possible.

Yes I like the idea of the humans being weaker (makes sense since we had thousands of years of progression since the last desolation while the old humans were facing it frequently). Also, the fused/unmade being stronger in the past also makes sense since they didn't just wake up from such a long sleep. However, the idea of a 'bondsmith unchained' seems so powerful. Ishar was going to steal Stormfather's bond from Dalinar which seems super OP. Nale overwhelming Szeth (who is a top 2 fighter currently) seems insane. I would love to know how the elsecaller herald performed in battle since transforming seems to do really well in a large battlefield. I still feel Urithiru should have been the biggest advantage for the old generation to lean on since its impregnable if the defenses are up.

Hey everyone so I just finished reading RoW and after seeing Ishar seamlessly evade a few windrunners (he was purely defending and toying with them) and hear the stormfather say that Ishar was 'average' amongst the heralds...I am wondering how odium + fused did so much damage to break them? Kaladin is currently equal to the best heavenly one in combat (Leshwi) without the 4th ideal and I believe there were ancient radiants that already had already sworn the 4th ideal. Also, Urithiru seemed like a stable base for the ancient radiants + heralds while it has barely been explored by the current interation. It just seems strange to me that raw skill + information + organization + numbers were on the side of the old but the new generation is faring better. Please help me understand! Thanks.