Quick Ben

No he doesn't, he writes high fantasy. Many authors nowadays don't follow the troupes and restrictions, so this really isn't a valid argument. @Honorless There isn't a feeling of dread because BS can't write it,

What despot was turned into a great ruler ? Surely you aren't referring to Dalinar ?

Just arrived today

Just seen this on reddit https://amp.reddit.com/r/Malazan/comments/o77yzg/the_jhistal_cancelled_by_publisher/ Anyone any the wiser ?

Why Is it Justice ? I'm not sure if this is a genuine question being honest. Reason is simple, his grandparents were wrongly imprisoned and left to die because of the pettiness of a lighteyes and an inept fool who allowed it to happen. Is it not justice that the people responsible for that are punished ? And how should taking a life in that manner be punished ? By taking the lives of the ones responsible. First off he didn't destabilise anything because Dalinar had made him a puppet by then, secondly fact he was king is almost irrelevant because the key fact is he was the one responsible not that he was king. So you you imagine, if Moash had approached Elhokar and Dalinar, explained what happened and they said "sorry' then that makes it ok ? Dalinar even thought so little of it all he remarked of it was "the roshone" affair, and you honestly think that an apology is enough when your family gets murdered ? Seriously?, For justice. Put yourself in Moashs shoes, your only family is murdered, you can get them Justice by eliminating the ones responsible, or you can see if they say sorry, what would you do ? I'm guessing you'd except the apology of the man responsible for killing your family since that's what your arguing, correct ?

He wanted justice for his grandparents, by eliminating the one ultimately responsible he got them justice. The point wasnt to make him feel better, point was to get justice for his family. Revenge killing isn't justice ? For someone in Moashs position killing him is the only justice he can get. If you have justification for killing someone like Moash had, then it is the right thing to do,

He was seeking justice for his family who as a result of the oppression of dark eyes were to all intents and purposes murdered through neglect. So yes he was resisting the yoke of oppression by getting the justice he could never otherwise of had. So you think Moash would of got justice for his grandparents by what ? Talking to Dalinar ? or Elhokar ? If that's what you believe how would got justice, what shape would it of taken ? An apology/excuse ? By saying "he was already one of the most powerful men in the kingdom is 1 misleading because he wasnt and 2 was the means by which he was able to get justice for his grandparents. Yes he wanted revenge, he wanted retribution for what was done to the only family he had. In a system where he would never get justice unless he took matters into his own hands, he did just that. How many tv shows, films, books are based on this very concept where the character is lifted up as a hero ? Too many to even count, yet Moash gets vilified, - makes no sense. The arguments why his vilified ? Elhokar was trying to be better - irrelevant Moash could of talked about it - are u serious ? Just because his position changed doesn't mean what was done changes, or how he feels or what he feels he has to do, to talk about it at this stage and accept whatever excuse/apology he recieved would be tantamount to being a coward. Moash hated Elhokar and just wanted revenge - yes he rightly hated Elhokar and he gets revenge as a by product of getting justice for his grandparents. Revenge and justice are not mutually exclusive.

I agree they are two different arguments, going on but don't think the regicide one is relevant for the reason you give above. However, I don't see how people say he wasn't justified, in my opinion, this is the very type of scenario which sparks revolutions, creates heros and martyrs, to say he was unjustified is to say, you have no right to defend yourself, you have no right to resist oppression, you have no right to, in a system designed to keep you and yours powerless, resist that very system. And when the ones in power turn there eye to your family, and eliminate them, you have no right to seek your own justice, when the laws, created by those same people, won't give you any. PS: this isn't a heated post, incase someone trys say it is. PPS: in all samdersons books there is social inequalities, which to an extent mirrors or own, both now and throughout history, so to say shouldn't be talked about in parallel baffles me if I'm honest as I believe that is the very intent.

What difference does it make that Elhokar was "trying" to do better ? You keep saying this, but what difference do you think it makes ? Because fact is it makes no difference. It is actually irrelevant that Elhokar is trying to do better..

@Frustration No, different views on morality then mine are not naive. But several comments were made that were naive. *Extended gaps between each statement for clarity The above statements, are naive imo, if you dispute that then fair enough, I was giving my opinion, you are free to give yours.....

I assume this was a joke and not serious ?

You are coming across as very naive and imo, and your views on the subject are very black/white and simplistic.

I wouldn't agree its realistic, simply because it's the majority and not the minority. If was a minority who wilfully assimilated into lighteyed culture disregarding the historical treatment if their caste it would be realistic, having them all do it bar 1 (Moash) is unrealistic in my opinion.

Why would he talk about it with Elhokar? There is no reason to, Moash wanted retribution for what happened his grandparents, and he took it, was no reason to talk. He was 100% right to do what he did. Talking about it would not of helped anything. Don't see how you can say was dealt with quiet heavily. Of course it's natural for darkeyed radiants to be accepted by lighteyes, why wouldn't they be ? however it's not natural for darkeyed radiants to ignore past wrongs done to them and continue to follow the lighteyes. While or course there would be some who would, it is irrational for all to follow this line and just assimilate into lighteyed culture, that is also a pretty troubling outcome when you think of it.

Its past 1am here, so I may not articulate my views on this very well, but i shall try. I'm sure you noticed the "darkeyes" are what you would call oppressed by the "lighteyes", they pretty much can live and die at there whim, darkeyes can rise so far but still can be shut down by a light eyes easily. This is reminiscent of many cultures in our own world both current and historically, so when as a darkeyes raised in this environment of systemic inequality, it is no surprise that Moash feels how he does toward Elhokar or Roshone or any and all light eyes, I'm sure you will agree with this. However saying Elhokar was mislead and trying to do better is irrelevant quiet frankly, to someone in Moashs shoes hes been beat down, abused, hes whole life, then sees his grandparents who managed to forge a niche for themselves and do well get torn down by a greedy lighteyes and a king who allowed it to happen, to someone in Moashs shoes the king and "nobles" are ultimately responsible for the systemic oppression and retribution is 100% warranted. Moash was 100% right to kill Elhokar. It is a natural thing for him to want to do and when he was able to he took the chance. With regards betraying Kaladin, it was actually Kaladin who betrayed him, to Moash Kaladin was a kindred spirit, someone who experienced similar treatment at the hands of lighteyes who got to a position where he could strike back, had decided to, then backed out. Given this Moash attacking Kaladin at end of WoR again makes sense. Then he had to go on the run, which started his decent, to where he is now, it's a logical natural path he took and fairly realistic, to be honest. Should he be vilified? No, in a way he did what many "heroes" and "martyrs" have done throughout history. What is more bothersome in my opinion is how all the darkeyes who become lighteyes actually behave and act, wilfully disregarding the treatment there caste received in their own time and throughout the past, by just "becoming" lighteyes, So while Moashs motives, actions are realistic, and logical, it is actually Kaladins, tefts, etc that isn't, and by all accounts the darkeyes have more in common with the parshendi then they do with the lighteyes. The issue of how darkeyes are historically treated is brushed over completely in the books, and barely mentioned and darkeyed radiants are just assimilated into lighteyed society with no thought to it and with little to no conflict which is unrealistic and the one darkeyes who acts truest to how would be in real world gets vilified, for acting the most realistic,