atarynnosaurus

I must admit, I completely understand where you're coming from here. I am a gay autistic person and it's VERY difficult to live my life without any actual personality because I'm just too crammed full of minority representation to leave space for anything else. God really stormed up when he made me. My life is an empty void. All there is is autisticness and gayness. It's very tragic. I hope Brandon manages to make room in Renarin for a little more than this so that he won't be consigned to the hollow husk of political correctness that my identity has been forced to become. My value as a human is nonexistent, as I clearly exist only to be a gay autistic person to pass off some kind of agenda on normal society. Seriously though. What the storm!? Like. It's too much for him to be gay because he's already autistic????? Is there a rulebook somewhere that says this? Each character may only belong to one minority group? Any more and they break the sacred writer's code of conduct and they'll be banned from publishing? If Brandon feels it makes sense for him and hsi character to have an interest in Rlain/men, and this is what's developed naturally for him, then that's what he will, and should, pursue. Shockingly this happens in real life. Autistic people exist. Gay people exist. Autistic gay people exist! There's quite a few of us, actually. Also. ALL of Bridge Four are outcasts. That's. That's the entire POINT of Bridge Four?? They're all people who didn't fit in anywhere else/with the lowest of the low in the other bridge crews so they became Bridge Four? This is not a Rlain/Renarin thing only? Finally, "poor representation" sucks and should be called out. This is not poor representation. This is actually representation of what real life looks like. Brandon seems fairly committed to doing that with all of his characters. So I'd say get used to them being 'crammed full of minority representation' in future. I doubt it'll end here.

I was pleasantly surprised by this relationship, actually. I had been a big fan of Jasnah, eventually, being revealed as a lesbian somewhere down the line, and reacted to the chapter where Navani implied that Jasnah/Wit was a thing with a mixture of scepticism, incredulity, and mild disgust, to be completely frank and honest about it. Brandon won me over. Especially with chapter 99. Both of them put forward a very different face/front to the world, something Jasnah says they bonded over, and it was nice to see them both being more genuine and relaxed around one another. They clearly get a real kick out of spending time with one another, and they seem to be making each other happy at the moment, which is good. I get the impression they're still fairly early days in their relationship. There's definite companionship and closeness, but they're still at the 'this is new and exciting and there's lots of potential we're excited to explore' stage and not the 'we're in love/even falling in love with each other' stage. But it's promising, I would say. It caught me by surprise, to be honest, how much I approved. But they seem to be good for each other/work well together. And Jasnah is clearly going into this with her eyes wide open, which makes me more comfortable with it. She's one of the few characters in the cosmere with the sense, intelligence, and charisma to handle Hoid and anything he throws at them. Overall, I approve, and am cautiously excited to see more of them together in future books.

I don't think either of those things are all that likely, to be honest. On the trauma front - even if Jasnah does have some kind of trauma relating to sexual assault/rape, which I know has been speculated about, this doesn't impact on her being ace. For one thing, she notes that she knew 'early on in her youth' that she was asexual. She's also not sex repulsed, as she would almost certainly be if her asexuality was rooted in trauma. Brandon has confirmed she's asexual, but sex positive/willing to have sex with her partners. On the 'emotionless' front. There's no danger of that, either, since Jasnah is quite explicitly not emotionless. Ivory mentions it, but Ivory is a spren, and Jasnah immediately tells him that he's wrong, and that she "let's her passions rule as much as the next person". Every POV we get from Jasnah we see emotion from her. She just isn't very good at/has grown proficient at not showing it. But she's not emotionless. She deliberately states in chapter 99 that what intrigues her about Wit/relationships is the emotional connection that she can form with them. I also didn't get the impression Jasnah had spoken to him about her asexuality yet? They seem to be relatively early on in their relationship, as both are mentioned as being excited to explore the future potentials of it. It's implied that they've had sex, and that Wit finds her lack of excitement about the whole process as odd. This strongly implies to me that she isn't explicitly out to him as ace yet/that they haven't had that conversation. If it IS explicitly canonised that he DOES know and is STILL trying to 'awaken' her sexual desires, then yes I would have a big problem with that. But Wit doesn't strike me as that type of character, and I doubt Brandon would turn him into such. He seems altogether very respectful and accepting of Jasnah's many Jasnahisms.

TL;DR: ALL of Investiture in the cosmere seems to be, like Stormlight or Voidlight, composed of unique vibrations or pulses. And so, like Stormlight and Voidlight - can it all somehow be combined and/or inverted? I had something of a revelation today, while writing gay fic of all things, and I thought I would share and try to get other peoples' thoughts. Because I might have noticed a connection, but I'm definitely not smart enough to figure out what it means, lol. So, one of Navani's biggest breakthroughs in understanding the various forms of Light on Roshar was realising that Stormlight, Voidlight, Lifelight etc are not just light, not liquid, but sound. Vibration. This allowed her to combine the lights with Raboniel, and it also allowed her to discover its opposite. A large breakthrough for understanding Investiture on Roshar. Except that this is not the only kind of Investiture in the Cosmere we've seen that has vibration as a core part of its nature. Allomancy. Allomancy gives off allomantic pulses to seekers who are burning bronze. Allomancy gives off DISTINCT allomantic pulses, as we saw in the scene where Marsh shows Vin how to use it in The Final Empire. Each metal, when burned, gives off a distinct and unique vibration. Something that can be used to determine a pulling/pushing metal, to determine which specific metal is being burned, and even if it's being flared. The power at the Well of Ascension also pulsed, and so did the 'mist spirit'. Allomancy, as Investiture, also has a unique vibration attached to each source. In Warbreaker, Breaths require sound to activate - they require a carefully, clearly spoken Commands in order to Awaken. They also grant a holder perfect pitch. The Iridescent Tones form a core part of the Nalthis belief system. While not as explicit as in Mistborn, Investiture here also has a clear vibrational component. In Elantris, seons pulse when they speak, and their aons glow. Raoden explains and understands accessing the Dor via drawing different shapes (aons) through which the power can access the physical realm from where it is trapped in the cognitive realm. However, he notes that his books on the topic describe the process via 'pulse length and frequency', which he doesn't understand, but, in the context of all Investiture having a unique vibration to it, makes sense to me. Do I have any idea what this means in real-terms for the cosmere going forwards, and the potential applications of this knowledge in terms of combining, inverting, or altering different forms of Investiture, but this is why I'm posting it here for you smart people to engage with and give me the answers.

Did anyone else, in the haze of brutal emotion that was chapter 108, feel an extra emotion because of the fact that Tien, like Maya, chose his fate, and the obvious parallels between those scenes/the implications behind them? The belief, all those years, that the Radiants murdered their helpless spren as unwilling casualties of the Recreance. Kal's belief that Tien was sacrificed, without his knowledge or consent, along with the other messenger boys, to buy some time for the trained soldiers. The revelation that, in both cases, the innocent victims chose their fates for their own beliefs, and made the choice to do what they felt was right. Perhaps neither was fully aware of what the consequences might be, but they went to them willingly. Obviously the spren's choice, and the fact that Adolin, via the power of goodness, is slowly reviving Maya, have huge overarching implications for the entire series, and put everything into a different context. However, in terms of the parallels here between that scene, and Tien's death, and what the implications are for Kal, I think it revolves around the idea of "you cannot have my sacrifice". Kaladin is an incredible character, don't get me wrong. He's a hero. He's saved so many lives, and tried to save so many more. He's Kaladin storming Stormblessed, he can't be anything other than fabulous. But he also has a big flaw, and a big habit of removing agency from the people that he feels he's failed in the past. He wants to protect. He wants to protect so badly. And he fears failure so much, that sometimes he can erase the choices of those he tries to protect. Sometimes it feels that Kaladin is a storm, and all the people he's tried to protect, Tien, various groups of slaves, his squad in Amaram's army bridge four, Elhokar, etc, are just debris picked up and carried and then dropped by him, that they have no will or agency of their own. But they all chose. Elhokar chose to go to Kholinar to try and save his city, and his family. His squad chose to follow him into battle, and to support his assault of a shardbearer. Bridge Four chose to take up spears against the parshendi at the end of TWOK and help Dalinar. They chose to become bodyguards to Dalinar and the Kholins. They chose to become squires, and then Radiants. They chose to protect, and to put themselves in harm's way to do so. The slaves Kaladin led on an escape attempt chose to go. They chose to be brave and attempt to escape their chains, rather than living within them. And Tien. Tien chose to go with the other messenger boys. He chose to stand at the front of that group of soldiers. He chose to give them light, and hope, in their final moments. He made that sacrifice willingly, so that the others would be less afraid as they died. Like the spren of the Recreance, he chose, and history, and Kaladin, have erased that sacrifice and made it their own. Kaladin's fourth ideal was "I accept that there will be those I cannot protect", which was obviously a HUGE step for him, as he obviously viewed this, based on the end of Oathbringer, as letting go of the people he lost. But I think it's also about accepting that sometimes he cannot protect people because they are not his. They are their own people, with their own ideals, beliefs, and courage. Sometimes you cannot protect someone because they make the choice to not be protected. They make the choice to put themselves in harm's way, as Kaladin does time and again, to protect, or give hope, or chase their own dreams. Their choice is their own. Their sacrifice is their own. And Kaladin will have to learn that the people he saves may want to do something with the lives he protected. Even if that's to give them away for a greater good. That's their sacrifice. And their choice. And Kaladin cannot have it to fuel his guilt and fears.

Personally, I'm choosing to believe he napped through the whole thing. Because that's amusing, and there's nothing to tell me otherwise.

It was explained/presented so well from her POV in the book as well! Especially the nuances of it - it's obvious Brandon's done his research and it paid off!

Hello!! We are also plural, and made an account here (after lurking for a while) so we could reply to this thread! (Have spoken to singlet RoW readers, and non-cosmere plurals, but it's not the same so we're super excited to have found this thread!) We feel almost exactly the same about Veil's integration. On the one hand, it was very beautifully done, as most Sanderson climax scenes are, and it was done with Veil's consent, she wasn't forced, so that was something, too. We also acknowledge that some systems do want to integrate some/all of their parts, and they're valid for wanting this. But we've come down, after a lot of thinking/soul-searching, on the side of this being a bad thing for Shallan, and a bad thing for plural representation as a whole in Rhythm of War. To us, it almost feels like a betrayal? Shallan has been plural/leaning more and more heavily obviously plural since TWOK, but it was only before RoW that Sanderson committed and said that yes, that was the intention, and that he had a beta reader on hand to help out. We were so excited! We've only recently discovered (in the last year/two years) we were plural, and Shallan has been extremely helpful in coming to terms with it and helping us feel good about it. We vibed with a lot of her interactions in this book, and it was so exciting to 1)- see her functioning and supported by Veil and Radiant 2)- in a relationship with someone who loves and accepts them for who they are!! (We've had a lot of problems dealing with relationship worry in particular, this was really important) 3)- just having plural rep that showed that no, we are not dangerous serial killers trapped in the bodies of innocent victims, we exist to support one another/help/IMPROVE the functioning of our host. It was all going really really well and we were so happy and excited and then...Veil integrated. It just felt like a huge slap in the face for us? I just remember thinking 'please don't take this away from us' as we read it. We paused and asked a friend who had finished if Shallan was still plural at the end of the book, and he said yes, and we cried with relief. And he was correct, and Radiant is still there, but Veil is gone. And she plans to integrate Radiant as well when she's ready and that was...very difficult to read? And we expect the full integration, if/when it happens, will be even more so. The problem for us, is in representation. Especially in a book series that deals so heavily with all different kinds of neurodivergence. Because none of the other ND seem to be heading towards being 'cured' or 'fixed' to complete their arc/for milestones in their journey? Kaladin's depression is still there, and, we believe, will never go away: he will simply learn coping mechanisms. Renarin is still autistic after bonding Glys/gaining healing - he's not been 'fixed' (and GOOD!!!). Teft's addiction and self-loathing weren't fixed, he just learns to cope. But Shallan. In order for Shallan to be making progress, she has to integrate. She has to be made 'normal'. She has to be 'fixed' in order to demonstrate growth. Integration is a valid choice for some systems. But when you only have one plural character, and you have them integrate to demonstrate growth, set alongside other characters who are developing their own coping mechanisms, it makes it seem like this is what ALL plurals should be doing/this is the only way to go. Instead of committing and showing something we NEVER see: a plural system functioning as plural, without integration, it reinforces the idea that we have to be singlet to be valid and to grow. It's hurtful, honestly. And I'm sure it reinforces the ideas of more ignorant singlet people who complained that they "just wanted Shallan" and that Adolin "deserved just one wife who he married without all these others" and they hoped Shallan would integrate because it would make their lives/Adolin's life etc easier. It's especially hurtful for us because we are also traumagenic, and have a headmate who has kept and protected us from bad memories. We have awareness of those memories now. We've processed and grown from them, as she gave them to us when we were in a safe place/ready for them. But she's still here. And she's still necessary, and loved, and wanted in our system. She hasn't expended all of her function/the purpose of existence now that we know about the memories. She still has them, and still holds them. And we just feel that...Shallan could have accepted awareness of her past, and taken on the awareness of the memories of what she'd done, without having to integrate Veil. Lumping them together in this moment of growth just makes it seem like...Like Veil was 'holding her back' rather than protecting her, and that she'd served her purpose, like a tool, rather than a person who loved and cared for Shallan, and had her own life and likes outside of that and it. Yeah, it hurts. We feel bad about it. Really bad