silver-the-ridgerunner

I was drawing from the Coppermind article on Ambition: "Odium gained the upper hand and mortally wounded Ambition by tearing off chunks of her power, which altered the people of Threnody as well as the planets in the system. Ambition managed to escape the system, but she was killed and Splintered in another location despite fighting back." (emphasis mine.) And this statement cites Khriss from Arcanum Unbounded as well as certain WoBs. On its face, this seems to be at odds with the epigraph (presumably from Harmony) that you quote. And that wouldn't be unprecented - the Coppermind is not canon, and even within the Cosmere, Khriss is not infallible. (Although neither is Harmony. Ugh, my kingdom for a reliable narrator in the Cosmere!). And yet, I think these two things can both be true. Specifically, Harmony's epigraph can be read in two different ways, neither of which contradict the Coppermind. One, Ambition was 'destroyed' when she lost a significant chunk of her power, which was in the Threnodite system; she was not fully Splintered until later. Two, the m-dash in the epigraph denotes the serial - i.e. there is a wound upon the Spiritual realm where Ambition clashed with the other shards [Threnody], and another wound upon the spiritual realm where Ambition was destroyed. This would seem to rely on very tricksy language-use... but might be something Brandon would employ, if he wanted to continue hiding that Ambition was killed in the Rosharan system.

Theory: After Ambition was wounded in the Threnodite System by Odium and Mercy, she fled to another point in space. This point either was, or became, the Rosharan system. Here, Ambition was killed. Her death created the Barrier Storm in the Cognitive Realm around the planet Braize. This storm was later Invested by Odium to create the proto-Everstorm that was pulled through into the Physical on Roshar at the Battle of Narak. Ambition's death also created a wound in the Spiritual Realm in the Rosharan System similar to that which exists on Threnody. This is the reason there are spren on Roshar. Datapoints: I group this into two categories, Spren and Storms. SPREN: From Shadows for Silence in the Forest of Hell, we know that the wounding of Ambition in the Threnodite System created Shades: cognitive beings which manifest in the Physical Realm. We do not see similar manifestations in the Mistborn novels or the White Sand graphic novels. We know there are no Splintered Shards in the Scadrian or Taldain systems at the time these stories are set. We see similar manifestations in Elantris and Emperor's Soul (Seons and Skaze). We know there are Splintered Shards in the Selish system at this time. We see similar manifestations in The Stormlight Archive (spren on Roshar) (and voidspren on Braize). STORMS: From Khriss's statements in Arcanum Unbounded, we know that the Dor around Sel is a whorl of free Investiture created when Odium Splintered Dominion and Devotion there. From statements from Nazh and Hoid, we know that travel to/from Sel through the Cognitive Realm is very difficult and dangerous due to the presence there of the Dor. From statements by Nazh, we know that that travel to/from Braize through the Cognitive Realm was difficult due to the presence of this Barrier Storm. A possible chronology: 1) The Shattering of Adonalsium. 2) Odium and Mercy clash with Ambition in the Threnodite System. Ambition is wounded. 3) Odium (and possibly others) clash with Ambition in the Rosharan system. Ambition is killed, creating the Barrier Storm, and spren. 4) Odium goes to the Selish system. He clashes with Dominion and Devotion. They are both killed, creating the Dor. 5) Odium returns to the Rosharan system, and begins whispering in the ears of the Ashynites. 6) The Ashynites devastate their planet using Dawnshards. They are taken in as refugees by Honor and Cultivation on Roshar. Their God, Odium, comes with them. 7) Honor, Cultivation, and Odium make a deal that they think will allow them to live in harmony on Roshar. This is the Oathpact. 8) Odium intentionally goes against the Oathpact, triggering its punishment prohibitions. He is exiled to Braize, on the far side of the Barrier Storm. The cycle of Desolations begins. 9) Honor is Splintered. 10) Honor's Cognitive Shadow is bound to the spren of the Highstorm. 11) Several millennia pass. 12) Odium invests a not-insignificant amount of Investiture into the Barrier Storm, creating the proto-Everstorm in the Cognitive Realm. This process takes several centuries. 13) Finally, the Everstorm is pulled through into the Physical Realm on Roshar, creating a direct passage between Braize and Roshar. Questions: A] Why is this wrong? B] Were other Shards involved in the death of Ambition? Did Mercy join Odium for the final clash? Did Ambition? Did Endowment (who we know is relatively new to the Nalthian system)? Indeed... were Honor and/or Cultivation in on the kill? C] Did the death of Aona and Skai occur before the initial conflict with Uli Da in the Threnodite system; after this initial conflict but before the final conflict in the Rosharan system; or after the Rosharan conflict? D] When on this timeline did Honor and/or Cultivation arrive on Roshar? E] When was Odium's first contact with the humans on Ashyn?

Spoilers for Rhythm of War and also for the entire Cosmere, literally all of it, if you ain't caught up then pretend this post is Aimia and sail right the hell away plzkthx I just posted this as a comment on Reddit. Reposting here as its own thread in case its of interest to y'all :-) This post was inspired by the recent episode of Shardcast. What a great podcast. Absolutely love it. The most recent episode is about Jasnah, in particular her asexuality as it related to her having a sexual relationship with Hoid in Rhythm of War. On the surface, this relationship is BOGGLING. I totally agree. And one interpretation of this is that Brandon Sanderson has done some very bad writing around an asexual character. This sure is possible. However, I don't think that is the case here. I think that Jasnah/Hoid is meant to be boggling. We are supposed to say to ourselves this does not make sense! And then we are supposed to ask, well, under what circumstances could this make sense? I tried to do this, and I think I have an interesting answer. We are told that Jasnah is not interested in sex for pleasure, and that she does not reciprocate Hoid's interest in a romantic relationship with her. How can she be in this sexual relationship if not for sexual pleasure and not for romance? I think the Shardcasters are forgetting that there can be other reasons for a relationship, particularly a cis/het sexual relationship in an (essentially) medieval context. I can think of two possible reasons. The first reason is for the sharing of power through a union, such as marriage. This doesn't seem likely here. What power could a Queen gain from union with a Wit? This would be my conclusion if they had proclaimed a union publicly but not acted on it privately. They are doing the exact opposite. So this doesn't seem likely at all. As a result, I think it's the second reason: procreation. They are having sex in order to produce a child. This is the only reason that I can think of for a person who is not interested in sex in general, not interested in romance with this person in specific, and has nothing to gain from the relationship being public, to engage in a private sexual relationship. Why does Jasnah want to have a baby with Hoid? Merciful Domi but idk. Maybe she wants to give Hoid something to live for (we WoT fans call this "the Veins of Gold"). Or maybe the answer is "magic stuff." Maybe she wants her child to have Connection to a Dawnshard. Maybe she wants her child to be a Mistborn - Hoid's a Lerasium Mistborn so his child will probably be full Mistborn too. Maybe she wants her child to be a Lightweaver apart from the Radiant Surges. Maybe she wants her child to have Connection to Yolen. Or, hell, maybe she just wants to raise a child alone, and in the incorrigibly patriarchal Alethi society, the only way to do this is to hook up with the literally least dependable man in the Cosmere. I don't know Jasnah's reasons - all I know is, this is Jasnah, and so she has 'em. This brings up one more question: if procreation is Jasnah's reason for their sexual relationship, is it also Hoid's? Hoid's behavior might be a clue. His attempts to sexually interest an asexual person suggest that he's unaware of her asexuality; doesn't understand it; or is deliberately ignoring it. If someone agrees to have a sexual relationship with an asexual person for purposes entirely apart from pleasure or romance, maybe their subsequent attempts to interest the asexual person in sexual pleasure result from their guilt at experiencing pleasure in the sexual act which their partner does not. In other words, Hoid is making misguided attempts to resolve a dissonance. This... isn't great. This seems like how an alien would think human empathy works. But Hoid could be that alien just as easily as Brandon. Alternatively, Hoid is just an asshole. This is entirely within the realm of possibility, because, y'know, Hoid. But I don't think this is likely. First, Hoid is not a dumb person. Moreover, he seems to be quite empathetic when he wants to be - and his statements about wanting a romantic relationship with Jasnah suggest that this is a person for whom he'd be empathetic. But most importantly, Jasnah is kind of the freaking patron saint of telling people how it is. If she told Hoid she was ace, I can't imagine she wouldn't explain to him exactly what that means to her & set boundaries clearly and effectively. As a result, I think the most likely answer is that Hoid is unaware of Jasnah's asexuality. This would would imply that Jasnah is pretending to be interested in sex - or at least, allowing him to assume that she is and not correcting him - in order to entice him into a sexual relationship. This would imply that it is her desire to get pregnant - but not his. It wouldn't surprise me if Jasnah has learned a way for cognitive shadows to be involved in conceiving children that is unknown to Hoid. Further, I bet she learned this as a result of things that her father Gavilor Kholin did with the Sons of Honor in an attempt to create 'Fused Heralds' - magical experiments that resulted both in Jasnah's childhood 'lunacy,' and later, Shallan's identity complexities. See https://old.reddit.com/r/Stormlight_Archive/comments/qyctcp/shardcast_jasnah/hlouize/?context=3. But that's theories upon theories. But that's why I love the Stormlight Archive In a greatshell: I think that Jasnah has allowed Hoid to believe their sexual relationship is one of pleasure/romance purely in order to concienve a child with him. Further, I think Hoid believes himself incapable of getting someone pregnant - and as a result is going to be mad surprised when Jasnah hands him the sonogram.

"Astarte or Ashtaroth, where?" I believe that the linguistic drift in the so-called Biblical languages was no less pronounced than in the tongues of Roshar. Why yes I enjoyed that pun why do you ask.

Also I wonder if "Cephandrius" derives from "cephas," which is a name based on the Aramaic word for "gem" (כֵּיפָא). See e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Peter#Names_and_etymologies

When a crystal breaks, and it has no natural fault lines, it kind of breaks in every direction at once. Kind of like when a car windshield gets hit by a big rock. This breakage is known as a "conchoidal fracture" - viz. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conchoidal_fracture The shattering of a perfect gemstone would lead to a conchoidal remnant of a gem first gem topaz concHOIDal HOID HOID HOID

I loved Dawnshard. Rysn is one of my favorite characters in the Cosmere. It was such a romp - it was just so fun! - and it was nice to see a character in a magical world who was struggling with nonmagical difficulties that required nonmagical solutions. Plus, Rhuidean Vibes galore. I can't wait for the audiobook to come out.

I believe this was a piece of white wood, confirmed to be from Yolen. This could have been a recent cutting from a distant planet. It could also be a really old cutting that is just well preserved - ye unto petrified wood. It could also come from a currently-alive plant that is the descendant of those old plants, White Tree Of Gondor style. Or one of those original trees could still be alive, Avendasora style. (Or... magic stuffs!) We have not yet seen Shinovar, known as the being the most Yolen-esque nation on Roshar. This scene could well be set there. Conversely it could be set in a little corner of Roshar that Frost keeps in the old style - a combination private garden, living museum, memento mori. I rather favor this explanation. And... a part of me wonders if that scene occured in the Cognitive - if Frost literally dwells in the memory of what has gone away. After the end of Era 1, I am distrustful of the constancy of "constants." Change is taking one thing and making it a different thing. Divide is taking one thing and making it two of the same things. It is the difference between sexual reproduction and asexual reproduction - a fundamental distinction among all life. Ooo, why not? Feel like this is some herald lore that I don't know! Although: If I remember my WOBs, a cognitive shadow can only have children under ery specific circumstances. I wonder if Chana reduced, or even abandoned, some of her powers, in order to have children - "becoming mortal" or something quite close thereto. The virgin Amaram versus the chad Guy Who Is Connected To Every Magic System. ...no, seriously, great catch. Wonder if she'll also arrange to give birth in Arelon? I hear Selish citizenship can really open Dors for a kid. Agree. Picked this up from Shardcast (and like SHOUTED OUT LOUD, those guys RULE) - the location where the Bands of Mourning were found looked eerily reminiscent of the location where Rysn found her Dawnshard. Maybe he had to drop the Bands in order to become a Dawnshard for <some magical reason>. But what I think is, maybe Kelsier wanted to protect his status as a Dawnshard so much that he was willing to sacrifice the Bands in one gigantic act of misdirection.

Anyone who isn't Ham and Breeze

The best advice I can possibly give to any hiker is to START SLOW! If I had a nickle for the number of Marathon Bros that I met on the Appalachian Trail, who showed off all the first week and so were badly injured by the second, I could afford to go to space on my own private rocket ship. (I wouldn't - but, I could!) Starting fast is never good. Listen to your body, enjoy nature, eat more than you think you need to, and you'll get where you're going - and you'll get better at the getting-there part, every single day. For what it's worth, when I started my first thruhike I had never been backpacking in my life. I had been hiking exactly twice - each time for just an afternoon, and each time it took me to the edge of my own dang annihilation. I had also just recovered from bilateral knee sugeries. And three years of uninterrupted immobility o/a/o law school. Also I was approximately the size and shape of a Snorlax that hadn't shaved in wayyy too long. And yet, somehow, I managed to keep hiking for the better part of two years. (And would have gone longer if it wasn't for la peste). I'm now kind of good at hiking, and on most days I'm pretty okay with how I look in the mirror (which is decidedly new for me). Also I met a hiker on Te Araroa who made me read The Final Empire, and, well, here I am Also, while I haven't had kids yet, I've thruhiked with quite a few families. It sure has it's challenges but it can indeed be done! Now I'm like "wait I never really wanted kids but NOW that I know you can HIKE WITH THEM" omg hiking kids are the best. They grow up so fast out there! It's incredible! This is why, when Nohadon started talking about long walks, or Dalinar said Dalinar Things about Next Steps, I was like YES, YES, GO OFF KING, GO RIGHT THE HECK OFF. Is is a Mortal Instruments forum, because if so, tell Baguette that I say hi :-)

What's GucciYokska? My name is Silver. My job title is Ridgerunner. Here I am in the BrandoFandom, once again proving the validity of nominative determinism. When I'm not thruhiking or working in the outdoors, I'm an attorney - at turn corporate law (when I remember that money exists) or human rights law (when I remember that souls are a thing a person can have). I am also a blacksmith, a cyclotourist, and a bad writer of bad stories that are bad! If you want to find me, I'll be in the Litchfield Hills and southern Berkshires all summer, watching over the Appalachian Trail... and, given half the opportunity, ranting about the Dawnshards more than storming Tanavast. -silver

Spoilers RoW - Spoilers Dawnshard - Spoilers All Cosmere - SPOILERS HERE - SPOILERS THERE - SPOILERS BLOODY EVERYWHERE ...now that we've scared off the neophytes: I haven't read a lot of Stormlight theories. I'm going to start that right now. But I've spent a lot of time reading the books, and reading the blessed Coppermind. So based on too much information and too little community critique... here are my craycray ideas about the Cosmere: Roshar is Yolen. The original planet, home of Adonalsium, is hidden in the Physical by crem (much like Akinah)... and known so commonly as Roshar that it is shrouded in the cognitive. Adonalsium was Shattered at the Shattered Plains, and the warcamps were the loci of the vessels who Ascended to become the first Shards. The burst of power from the Shattering created so many features of Roshar, such as the Windblades, as a result of cymatics. Rosharan Highstorms are driven by the spren of this storm - basically its memory - imprinted on the cognition of the very world. Every highstorm is the memory of the shatterstorm. Cusicesh is the spren of everyone on Yolen recognizing the Shattering - the spren of "a million voices crying out in terror," Alderaan-style. The reason the three realms on Roshar bleed over into each other so much is because of the realmatic trauma of the shattering - a kind of permanent perpendicularization. The ancestors of the Alethi are from Ashyn. The ancestors of the Ashynites were from Yolen. As such, they share a common ancestry with the Shin, who never left Yolen. (Alethkar-son-son-Shinovar). This explains their continued use of stone, which is but a memory of what once was used to keep the Fain at bay. The crem-based life of Roshar is either Fainish, or the result of Fainish adaptation to Roshar - that is to say, to the introduction of the crem cycle. This possibly aided by Cultivation, and/or Dawnshardic influence - or maybe Cult simply created the context which would cause 'evolution' in the direction she desired, God do I love Cult, she storming owns. In this same manner, the races of Roshar are mostly the result of interspecies combination caused at a Deific level. We've seen part-human, part Dysian Aimian; part-human, part Siah Aimian; part human, part Parsh... what is hiding in plain sight is that the Parsh themselves are part human, part dragon. Hence their limited but impressive ability to shapeshift, and their Revisionist Smaug hoarding of gems. Sja-anat's "Enlightenment" is literally adding a light. Five broams says Horneater White is how Brandon thinks Hornitos is pronounced. Axies the Collector is of Whimsy. So is his race. His Collectoriness is his Whim... and he can change his appearance on a whim as well. I'm guessing that the Dysian Aimians are of one of the remaining two shards - probably a complement of Invention, such as Observation - or maybe Fascination. The planet-names of the Threnodite System are all about songs for the dead. They are unrelated to Ambition. They're a little related to Mercy. Maybe. But I wonder if the original Shard of that system was something like Mourning, or Grief, or maybe even Celebration. I wonder if that shard is still in the Threnodite System - maybe Celebration plus the presence of a dead Shard equals Mourning. Harmony will fail to turn Waxillium Ladrian into his prime agent. This is mainly because Harmony's mutually-exclusive powers prevent him from making something into something-else. (His Shard-name could very well be "Laissez-faire.") As a result, he will need to recruit an Agent from offworld. Someone who is already brilliant and capable. Someone who can serve with honor. Someone who, opposite of Sazed, can put on a different intent and skillset to meet the particular challenge at hand - a little like the halfway point between a kandra and a human. Someone who is already involved with a Scadrian organization. Someone who is already involved with an organization dedicated, by happy accident, into discovering how someone with a spren-bond could leave Roshar. Harmony thinks he needs a "sword," but what he really needs is a "little knife." Shallan’s mother was the Herald Chanarach. When Shallan manifested surgebinding, her mother tried to kill her. Shallan killed her in self-defence - but in doing so, she started the False Desolation. I also wonder whether Shallan killed her mother, not with Pattern, and not with Testament, but with something else - either a permadeath weapon, like the knife that killed Jezerien, or a gem-on-a-stick weapon, that killed her mother's physical form but trapped her mother's spiritual aspect in the gem, which was then hidden in the box - either to remain trapped forever, or shattered and sent back to Damnation, starting the cycle of desolation BUT allowing for her immediate rebirth. (Poor Lin!) Jasnah is trying to get pregnant by Hoid. The Dawnshards are the building blocks of life. In the context of the world - of what an evolutionary biologist might call *evolutionary pressures* - they are Adaptation, Perseverence, Mating, and Multiplying. Devoid of their context, they are, at their most fundamental levels, CHANGE, SURVIVE, UNITE, and DIVIDE, respectively. At a more programmer level (Cosmere's Game Of Life?) they are +CHANGE, -CHANGE, COMBINATION, and REPRODUCTION. (Or on an OS level, "Edit" "Save" "Merge" and "Duplicate"). As of the current moment - the end of RoW, and the end of Era 2 Book 3 - the Dawnshards are held by Rysn (CHANGE), Kelsier (SURVIVE), The Stormfather (UNITE) in trust for a worthy host, and I'm guessing Jaddeth for Divide. The effects of this can be seen in Chiri-chiri's evolution; Kelsier's sheer inability to stop being alive; and Dalinar's desire to Unite Them... which so far expresses itself mostly in political terms, but is probably not orthogonal to the fact that, as has often been commented upon, suddenly and irrepressably, Dalinar f---s. Vstim was training Rysn to be a Dawnshard. He made her fit to hold it well, and also developed her Connection to its evolutionary concept sufficient for her to claim it. He arranged for her to have a larkin, and a ship. This smacks of Cultivation’s work with Taravangian, but is rather less direct. Perhaps Vstim is an agent of Cult. Perhaps he visited the Nightwatcher and as a result has become her pawn unknowingly. Or perhaps the indirectness of his actions is based upon an oath of noninterference… because Vstim is Frost. The reason that Investiture on Scadrial always re-gathers is due (howsoever indirectly) to the presence of the Dawnshard SURVIVE. The reason behind so many of the racial hybrids on Roshar is the presence of the two Dawnshards, UNITY and CHANGE. The reason that Kelsier and Hoid immediately wanted to punch each other - and Hoid was able to! - is because of their closeness to Dawnshards. We know that Kelsier is Mr. SURVIVE. Hoid might have also held SURVIVE, and perhaps the Dawnshards are like storming magnets, whereby identical polarities repulse. Or Hoid might have held CHANGE, and as such they are naturally opposed. Personally I prefer the former logic, because... um... well... RYSN/KELSIER. IS THE SHIP THAT I DID NOT KNOW I NEEDED BUT NOW I DO I DO I DOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Larkin/lanceryn are guardians of Dawnshards because they prevent the Dawnshard-holder from gaining Investiture. They are like the tamper in the core of a nuclear bomb. (Someone get Kelsier a gang... that is entirely made up of EDIT: Leechers.) The forging of Nightblood took "ten thousand breaths" but I bet it also involved ten thousand hemalurgic spikings. This is related to the growing theme in the Archive of "is it okay to do evil to make a technology that will do more good?" - which is very Ishar and just SO DAMN TARAVANGIAN. (As an aside: I wonder if Nightblood was cast or forged. Unwrought steel naturally has a crystaline structure, quite akin to a gem.) (As another aside, I bet the Conventicle of Seran was founded by one or more of the Five Scholars - at least Shashara - and its name is related to the name she used when she was on Scadrial.) Speaking of awakening, command, intent, and visualization: I am told that humans dream in black and white. I wonder if that's why Awakening requires color, to make our dreams reality? Aaand speaking of ethics: Odium's champion is going to be someone Dalinar cannot kill. Adolin? Kaladin? Gavinor? The ghost of Evi? Dalinar will "lose" this rigged contest... but also, *he will be glad to lose*! The end of Stormlight 5 will have the humans of Roshar abandon the planet to Odium. More specifically, they will cede the planet to Toadium, in reparation for bringing the Void and enslaving the Parshmen lo so many years ago. (Stormlight is anticolonialist literature?!?). The Shin will remain, as they predate arrival of humans from Ashyn. Maybe *some* humans will, too. But some will go. They will leave Roshar behind. And this sets us up for the Stormlight Archive Back 5 to suddenly and fully go COSMIC STORMING COSMERE. Dalinar and Navani will go to Sel (Dalinar to Unite that which was splintered; Navani to study seons and aons and basically become Ada Lovelace but for MAGIC), Shallan will go to Scadrial to become Harmony's Mara Jade, and Jasnah will lead the Alethi to Ashyn to try to de-storm the planet of Honor. AND I MENTIONED KELSIER/RYSN RIGHT?!?!?! But not "Toadium." Actually "Passavangian." Because: The Oathpact was a deal between Honor and Odium to fight FOR THE SAKE OF FIGHTING. Odium would send his forces after Honor, and thus be his Hateful self. Honor, in turn, was the anti-Yoda, and thought that wars DO make one great - and longed to provide his people with an endless war in which they could fight and die in glory. This is the truth which the Knights Radiant learned, leading to the Recreance. I would even guess that Koravellium betrayed Tan to Rayse in desperate hope to end their mutual madness (shard-savantism + toxic masculinity = you're gonna have a bad time). El wishes to continue this fight, probably by going after the forces of Valor in big bad Infinity War II Interplanetary Boogaloo. The real test will be whether Odium can truly be transformed into Passion as once he was, causing El to rip off his armor and return to his carapace... a very heavy-metal version of swords-into-plowshares. ADDITION: I still wonder if Ba-ado-Mishram is actually the Sibling - broken of light, trapped in a gem - already bonded by Navani. ADDITION: I bet Kaladin will will sacrifice himself to save Moash, even though Moash has not been redeemed. This might be his fifth Ideal. Or, it might be him being unable to swear the fifth Ideal! In either event, it will be so damn Honorable that we'll get Kalavast. ADDITION: I believe that the most important person in the entire storming cosmere is our sweet, our beloved, all-around best twink in fiction, Adolin Kholin. And why? Because he is Connecting so strongly to Mya. He's not just going to reverse the Deadeye-ness. He's not going to just become an Edgedancer. No. No. He's going to form a bond with a spren WITHOUT SWEARING THE IMMORTAL WORDS. He's going to form a Nahel outside of the strictures that Honor placed on Surgebinding on Roshar. He's going to be a Radiant without being a Knight. And this will be both the key to Connecting with Investiture on other worlds... and also will make Surgebinding on Roshar as dangerous as it was on Ashyn. Yeeeeesh. ADDITION: My guess is that Urithiru is one leg of a Rosharan Bifrost. When you turn it on, it makes a bridge to another similar device on Ashyn. This is how the Ashynites got to Roshar in the first place. However, I also have an alternate guess that is probably mutually exclusive - that the gateway to Ashyn is still open, that it's at the Origin, and that it's the source of all the crem on Roshar. ("Ashyn fell from the sky.") ADDITION: Adonalsium was not actually shattered. It was split, like light by prisms. No, not actually like, but literally. A Dawnshard is a pure Command, wrought into a crystalline lattice so that it can capture investiture, and held by (as) a person in order to supply Vessel-like Intent. (I half wonder whether Hoid's name when he was a youthful otherkin on Yolish Tumblr was Feldspathoid The Dragon, hence "hoid.") I think that the Sixteen thought they would split the light of God off into the world(s). But. But! They used gems that contained TOO MUCH DAMN ALUMINUM. (Such as topaz!). This trapped the Investiture, forcing the Ascension of those who held these gems. ADDITION: I really wonder if Shallan's mother was planning on having more children. Like, 5 or 6 more. Think about that for a hot minute. ADDITION: I wonder if the way you "wound" a Shard is to convince them to betray their Intent. The Sixteen made a promise not to reform Adonalsium. From the get-go, this limited Ambition's ambition to such an extent that they were in internal conflict, and thus injured. Exploiting this injury was easy for our boy Rayse The Roof. By the same token, the infinite loop of the Desolations grew so dishonorable that Honor began to lose himself within it. Kind of like if Cultivation was asked to *not* prune, such as by choosing to *not* nuke every human on Roshar except Kharbranth. I wonder if Koravellium is setting herself to be Splintered, or even killed, by making such a choice - as part of a plan to kill Odium - or even, as part of a plan to let some others (Dalinar and Navani?) Ascend to Unity. Also the binding of Ba-ado-Mishram is the source of the taint on saidin. Okay I'm done now. -silver the ridgerunner (yes, actual name) (yes, actual job title) thanks for being the best fandom. just, the best. <3

Could the Sibling and Ba-ado-Mishram be one and the same? - a Godspren - light-producing - stuck inside a gem - missing a part of itself - wary of Knights Radiant! - both went dormant about the same time Could "Mishram" have been a three-part spren, an equal divide between the three Shards - the three pure tones - of Roshar... perhaps even created to symbolize the unity of the three when the Ashynian Refugees were accepted? Perhaps even created as *part of the Oathpact*?

We know that the Radiants were shocked to discover she had found a way to provide them Voidlight. It would have been rather shocking to think her only able to provide an emulsion of the two lights, only to discover she had found a way to separate them.

Awesome. I ah... went ham on a related theory, and just posted it, if you're interested.

...I also hypothesize that the mixed races of Roshar are the result of Bondsmithery. Parshmen are half-Dragons, and hence can shapeshift but only on a limited basis. ...Why yes I did drink too much caffeine today why do you ask

All spoilers - RoW, Dawnshard, Cosmere, WoB, r/cremposting, whispers of fictive headmates, etc: In a nutgreatshell: I propose that the herald Ishi and the radiant Melishi are one and the same. 1. MELISHI We know that Melishi was a Bondsmith prior to the Recreance. He was bonded to the Sibling. He enjoyed a position of authority among the Knights Radiant. He lead a strike team to capture Ba-ado-Mishram. He was warned that this would have unintended consequences. He ignored this warning. 2. ISHAR We know that Ishar was a Herald of the Almighty. He is currently the mad God-Priest of Tukar. He is obsessed with spren, the Nahel bond, and Connection in general. He is preposterously skilled in combat - far more than even the Blackthorn and several Knights Radiant. Before he was a Herald, he was a part of the development of surgebinding on Ashyn, which led to the destruction of Ashyn, and was part of the subsequent exodus of humans from Ashyn to Roshar. He is still studying the fundamental forces of the Cosmere with an eye towards their manipulation. 3. SIMILARITIES I mean, basically all of it? ISHI, MELISHI - their names are pretty dang similar. Both had positions of authority in the Knights Radiant - Melishi from the way he is spoken of in the Gem Archive, and the Knights Radiant being literally called "Ishar's Knights." Both are closely associated with Bondsmiths. Melishi was a Bondsmith (bonded to the Sibling), the historical Ishar was the Heraldic patron of Bondsmiths, and the modern Ishar tried to steal a Bondsmith's bond to the Stormfather. Both are closely associated with Connection. We really only know Melishi in the context of gems mentioning Ba-Ado-Mishram, who in another gem is specifically discussed in terms of majuscular Connection. Ishar, in RoW, is all about that Connection. Melishi captured Ba-Ado-Mishram in a perfect gem (much the way Dalinar does to The Thrill). Ishar is studying a new way to capture spren, one that involves less jewelry and The historical Ishar was part of the development of surgebinding on Ashyn. The modern Ishar is trying to mess with the fundamental forces of Roshar. Melishi messed with the fundamental forces by capturing Ba-Ado-Mishram. The historical Ishar was part of the exodus of humans from Ashyn to Roshar. The modern Ishar is studying the persistence of Invested entities outside of their home. (This is pretty close to what Restares is doing on Roshar, and what Thaidakar is doing on Scadrial.) In the same way, Melishi was studying how to stop Voidlight from getting from Braize to Roshar by means of a spren. These seem similar - even progressive, one two three. The historical Ishar was part of the Surgebinding investigations that destroyed Ashyn. Melishi was part of the spren-capturing that caused the False Desolation and turned the parshendi into parshmen. The modern Ishar is on his way to becoming the subject of a Behind The Bastards episode. This guy genocides. And I mean, the methods of his madness are bad enough, but his *goals* are probably even worse! The guy should really be the Herald of Ignoring Externalities. "Playing with forces too big for him to control" seems like his bag, baby. He answers the question: What if Lanfear was like "okay, so we've got this Bore. What if we bored a BIGGER bore and then put THAT Bore in THIS bore? Problem solved!" This guy probably has a coffee mug that says "That's a problem for Tomorrow Ishar!" OMG I hate him so much. 4. PROBLEMS From the Gem Archive, we are told: ""This generation has had only one Bondsmith[...]" This suggests that there are multiple, changing Bondsmiths. But it does not imply that it all Bondsmiths are new. Heck, it tells us clearly that the 'multiple' part is not constant. I expect that none of these parts are constant. A) Heralds can bond spren. Look at Nale. Heralds can lead their Order - again, Nale. C) Heralds are immortal. Look at... well, 9 of them. (Sorry Jezza) D) We know that Ishi is older than the Heralds themselves. He was definitely alive during the time Melishi was alive. E) Again, Ishar tried to steal Dalinar's bond to the Stormfather - but another way of saying that is, he tried to bond a Bondsmith spren himself. F) Back in the day, the Nahel bond was less permanent. Maya says that she thought the breaking of her Radiant bond would hurt, but would not kill her. This implies that it would have left her able to be re-bonded to a new person, making a new Knight Radiant - much as she is on the road to doing with Adorablin. By this same method, a bondsmith could well have bon G) We are told by the Gem Archive that "This generation has only one Bondsmith." It does not imply that this one Bondsmith hasn't been a Bondsmith for generations - since, indeed, the beginning. And it does not imply that, just because there's only one bondsmith, only one of the Bondsmith spren is bonded. A person can have more than one Nahel bond at once. And if anyone was ever to do this it would be Mr. Bondypants himself. H) As a result, Melishi could have been bonded to more than one of the Bondsmith spren - before his attack on Ba-Ado-Mishram, or even, during it. I) Storms, it wouldn't surprise me to discover that Ishar CREATED the Sibling - using his Bonding powers to combine Stormlight and Cultivationlight into a new "Bondsmith-level spren." (We need better vocabulary, here. Bondspren? Shardspren? Greatspren? Pleez halp.) J) Storms, I'm guessing that Ishi-Melishi is the one who created the Nahel bond entirely. 5. SIDE THEORY THAT'S TOTALLY BATSHIT, I KNOW Since Ba-Ado-Mishram was a Light-level spren, and the only other Light-level spren are the Bondsmith spren, I'm going to go ahead and suggest that Ba-Ado-Mishram could have been a Bondsmith-bondable spren. Ba-Ado-Mishram might have been a regular ol' spren of Odium, and her only association with Light was to forge a Connection between a Light-source - say Odium himself - and the parsh. Or, Ba-Ado-Mishram could have been the spren of Odium in the way the Stormfather is the spren of Honor, or the Nightwatcher the spren of Cultivation. BUT. What if Ba-Ado-Mishram was a spren like the Sibling - a meeting of the two? And what if, as I theorized about the Sibling, Ishar was involved in her creation? Ba-Ado-Mishram might have been a 'sibling' of Honor and Odium, or of Cultivation and Odium - creating a 'towerlight'-like blend of the two lights. Maybe the creation of such a blended greatspren was part of the Oathpact by which Odium and the Ashyn Refugees were allowed onto Roshar. Maybe there were two of them - three blended greatspren, in addition to one pure greatspren of Odium. Meaning there's one mixed greatspren, and one pure greatspren, that we have yet to meet - or at least to understand. If Ba-Ado-Mishram was a Bondsmith-spren, Ishi/Melishi could well have bonded her at one point - or indeed, could have been bonded to her even while he was imprisoning her. This might be the reason that the Sibling went into hiding, and refused to bond any new Radiant. His last Bondsmith had betrayed one of his other bonded spren! (Aside: I kind of wonder if the Sibling being tied to the Tower is actually not that far off from Ba-Ado-Mishram being trapped in a gem. But that's a bit metaphysical for the moment - save 4 l8r.) And, ifffff this is all true... ISHAR COULD STILL BE BONDED TO BA-ADO-MISHRAM. Still bonded. All this time! This could well be the reason that Ishar is so double extra super crazy at the moment. He could be bonded to a spren who is trapped in a gem and has been stuck underground for a few millennia. That's probably halfway to being trapped himself - halfway to being Taln. Probably not super awesome for the ol' mental health - just guessing. 6. PUTTING IT ALL TOGETHER My guess is that the history/mechanics went something like this. -Ishar was a human living on Ashyn -He was interested in the Surges - kind of the way Dr Faustus was interested in the spirits, Dr Oppenheimer in the atom, Dr. Eronaile the Power, or the current Ishar in playing Dr. freakin' Mengele with living spren. -Odium tempted Ishar with the power to manipulate the fundamental surges -Ishar did so, creating Surgebinders - probably creating the Nahel bond as we know it. -In doing so, he also delved_too_deep.gif, and created such instability on Ashyn that the planet was rendered uninhabitable - all but destroyed. (Side note - the name "Ishar" is quite a bit like the "Ishtar" of Biblical times. There's a lot of cross-pollenation among old deities, and their names... but Ishtar is associated with the serpent who tempted Adam and Eve with the forbidden knowledge that saw them cast out of Paradise. RIP Tranquiline Halls.) -Odium then asked Honor and Cultivation if he, and his people, could flee to Roshar. The Avasts agreed, under the condition that Odium would stay on Braize and not do, y'know, Odium Stuff. This was the Oathpact. -The Oathpact was created, not just by the power of the Shards, but by the power of Ishar the Bondsmith. He created the rules of the Oathpact. -The reason Ishar was able to bind Shards to an agreement, is the same reason that he was able to bind spren of the cognitive to people of the physical by means of the Nahel bond. It's the same reason that he is all about that Connection and always has been. You see, Ishar is - or at least, was - a Dawnshard. It could be UNITE, as in UNITE THEM; or it could be BIND, as in Surgebinding, as in Bondsmith ("binding contract" sounds a lot like an Oathpact to this attorney.) I'm guessing it's BIND. -Specifically, Ishar was given th Dawnshard of Binding by Odium. And specifically, he was given it by Odium *specifically* so that it would lead to the ruination of Ashyn, so that Odium could play upon Honor and Cultivation's sympathies to admit his people to their system - and in doing so, let him in, to war upon them, and kill them. -Ishar then wrote the Oathpact, and Bound the parties to it. The problem, here, is that - pacts are hard. Words are hard. Hell, I'm a lawyer. Writing contracts is hard. Ambiguities are unavoidable, and can be exploited by other parties - and sometimes ambiguities can be hidden by the drafter to exploit themselves. Odium found, or made, those ambiguities, and exploited them - leading to the death of Tanavast, the splintering of Honor, and the cycle of Desolations. -Hell, Odium might have done this same trick to the other Shards he Splintered. The Bondsmith's power to turn human words into the laws of the Universe is as beautiful and terrible as the very dreams of the skybreakers. (When you've got the Hammer of Gods, everything looks like a Nale. Sorry. No, no I'm not.) -I don't understand the current status of the Dawnshard of Bind. I know it profoundly affects Dalinar. That's all I know. It could be held by the Stormfather. It could be hidden, but was held long enough by Bondsmith-related entities that it suffuses all that they are. But, if I had to guess, part of the Oathpact was that the Dawnshard of Binding was splintered into ten pieces, and divided amongst the Heralds, whose main goal was not to be interplanetary warlords, but simply keepers of a power that was too great to combine - and too dangerous for Honor and Cultivation to want anywhere near Roshar. The Heralds, as prison-guards of the power that destroyed their home planet, were then banished to Braize, and never meant to return. Then Odium went all rules lawyer on them, found mad sploits, and thus the endless cycle of free-trips-to-Damnation. -Whether by Ishar's bindings, or the natural reordering of the world after Odium's people came to Roshar, the Nahel bond became as tied to Voidlight as it was to Stormlight and Cultivationlight. My guess is that three spren were created to be co-equal blends of the Shards in the system. The spren who resides in Urithiru is part Honor, part Cultivation. That spren has two siblings: Ba-Ado-Mishram, and an as-yet-unnamed (or at least, as-yet-unidentified) spren, one of which is of Honor and Odium, the other of Cultivation and Odium. -As a result of stacking playing-god on top of playing-god, Ishar/Melishi's capture of Ba-Ado-Mishram stopped what could well have been the imminent conquest of Roshar by Odium. But in doing so - well, Lews Sealing The Bore. Prepare For Unforseen Consequences. OOPS I DID IT A GAIN. This deprived the parshmen of cognition, deprived the spren of the ability to survive the breaking of their bonds, and probably other things that we don't even understand, because THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU STICK YOUR DICK IN THE UNIVERSE. And... storms, it is quite possible that the name Ba-Ado-Mishram is a sobriquet. "Ado" could come from "Adora," the same root as the first syllable in Adolin's name, meaning "light" - and "Mishram" contains "Ish" and even "Ishr," which could be linked to the Herald. Maybe there's a Ba-Ado-Mishram and a, idk, Tet-Ado-Mishram, indicating Honor/Odium-light and Cultivation/Odium-light (or vice versa). Heck, maybe the "Sibling" is actually like Asha-Ado-Mishram - three Siblings, created simultaneously by the powers of a Dawnshard, in the hopes of a harmony that Odium immediately sought to destroy. Three multi-shardic blends - three little Harmonys - three little Adonalsiums - simultaneously beautiful in their unity, and terrible in their return towards that which was Shattered. -The phrase UNITE THEM is probably just a general, all-encompassing idea of the Dawnshard of BINDING. It might even be a mixed version, resulting from the Intention of dead Tanavast and mere echoes of the splinitered Dawnshard. However, I doubt it will be satiated until it has united the splinters of itself (if such they are), and, indeed, the Shards of Adonalsium. -I expect that is Hoid's biggest interest in the Rosharan system - the unification of the shards of the Dawnshard of Binding, towards his ultimate goal of the reunification of Adonalsium. -...which interest could very well be at conflict with the best interests of Roshar. -And, as a result, the biggest single piece on the Rosharan chessboard is probably... Rysn. Because A] maybe the only way out of the BINDing Oathpact is to CHANGE it... and B] because my girl Rysn real good at contract negotiation. TEAM RYSN BABY. ALL ABOARD DAT WANDERSAIL! Best from Great Barrington, Massachusetts, where I am off-Trail hiding from a thunderclaststorm -Silver the Ridgerunner

Do you happen to have the exact language in re the Nightwatcher? I am away from my book, but I'd love to get lawyerly at the exact language. I have... thoughts...

could BAM be the third Bondsmith? their abilities seem distinctly Bondsmith-y

This is the Way.

PS: fun name times: RoW spoilers:

RoW spoilers:

Spoilers All Cosmere This is just some crazy tinfoil idea that I had. I've long had a pet theory that Kelsier was connected to another Shard. He has such commitment to his ideals that it speaks of great Intent. He comes off as cocky and self-interested but his willingness to sacrifice himself - and pursue his ideals even thereafter! - shows the depth of his devotion. I used to think that, if he was influenced by a shard, it was probably Bavadin. Her penchant for Investing herself into Avatars is well known. Kelsier's anti-authoritarianism seems pretty Autonomous. And Kel's immidiate antipathy towards Hoid seems rather as if he "has been instilled with an intense and overpowering dislike of" our favorite flautist. This seems a little hard to square with his becoming a ruler (the Sovereign) on Scadrial, and a leader (Thaidakar) to the Ghostbloods. But it's possible. Perhaps there is no greater autonomy than sovereignty. Kelsier created the Bands of Mourning, an artifact so powerful as to grant its user quite a bit of "freedom and self-direction." But of all the questions about the Bands of Mourning, one gets a little lost: Why are they so named? I don't believe that the eponymous book gives an answer. But another text may: Shadows For Silence In The Forest Of Hell. Shadows for Silence is set on the planet Threnody, namesake of the Threnodite system. The other planets in that system include Monody and Elegy. A threnody is "a wailing lament composed or performed as a memorial to a dead person." Both a monody and an elegy are "poems lamenting a person's death." All three of these are examples of mourning. There's no Shard in the Threnodite system now. We know that several Shards were once there - Odium, Ambition, and Mercy. A "wail for the dead" doesn't speak much of Ambition, and though it is Passionate it doesn't really feel like "God's own hatred." Mercy? "Compassion or forgiveness shown toward someone whom it is within one's power to punish or harm." That doesn't sound much like a death-song - and it sounds nothing like Kelsier. In the Threnodite system, then, one of two things seems likely. The first possibility is that the planets are named for some other Shard. Perhaps this is one of the two we haven't encountered - maybe it is the Shard of Grief? Maybe Memory? The second possibility is that this system was created, or at least deeply touched, by all three of the shards which once resided there: Odium, Ambition, and Mercy. What do you get when you mix striving, passion, and forgiveness? I think that you would get the creation, of a song, of mourning. Perhaps Kelsier is touched by something from these worlds. Kelek's Breath but there are enough Cognitive Shadows running around Threnody! And we know that the Selish Ire have set up pickets around Scadrial's subastral specifically to prevent Threnodite Shades from coming through via Shadesmar. And we know that Kelsier had a deeply transformative experience when he was enslaved in the Pits of Hathsin - the Lord Ruler's prison, the source of all atium, but also a Perpendiculatiry. Maybe a Shade got through the Ire's picket and touched Kelsier. Maybe it was more than one of the apparently simple-minded Shades we see in Shadows for Silence. Perhaps all of the Shades of Threnody contain portions of the three Shards we know were present there. Maybe they contain an especially large portion of Ambition, since Uli Da was the one so wounded there. One part hatred, three parts self-striving, and one part "a desire to relieve suffering." ...that sounds a lot like Kelsier to me.

So I assume that every theory I come up with, someone on this site already had in like 2007, and it was disproven by 2008 That being said... here goes. A long time ago, the planet Yolen was home to Humans, Dragons, Sho Del, and a being called Adonalsium. The sixteen cornered Adonalsium and Shattered him. The sixteen, newly Ascended, each went their separate ways. Most went to their own Shardworlds. Some, like Bavadin, went to a sun. At least one just went somewhere in space. A few went two-at-a-time to a planet - like Aona and Skai on Sel - despite having bound themselves not to do that. Some used the powers of the Shards to make their own worlds, like Scadrial. (Aside: I wonder if Ati and Leras made their planet just to avoid some specificity of the language of their oath not to settle on the same planet. Which explains why Odium And Friends weren't able to kill and splinter them as easily as they did - even when their own fighting left them both preposterously weakened. Imagine if Ati and Leras were lovers or best friends, and the opposing nature of their Shards drove them to such enmity. All for their hubris. What a tragedy that would be.) Rayse - Odium - went off to his own Shardworld. This was not Braize - he would not end up there until much later. This planet was probably in its own solar system where Rayse could be a God unquestioned. Two Shards, however, decided not to leave. They would stay on Yolen together. These shards were Mr. and Mrs. Avast - Koravellium and Tan - the shards of Cultivation and Honor. When Rayse went to his planet, he took a group of humans with him. But he did not take every human off of Yolen. Many stayed with Cultivation and Honor. As did many dragons - Cultivation's species - and many Sho Del. We don't know much about the Sho Del. But they, and their ecosystem, was in conflict with the humans and their ecosystem. If Honor had stayed on Yolen alone, he would have established firm rules that allowed the two ecosystems to live side by side. If Odium had stayed on Yolen, he would have pitted them against each other until the stronger survived and the weaker died. But, true to her Shardic intent, Cultivation offered a compromise. She would let the two species grow together into one. The same will that would one day lead to the creation of the Sibling and its mixed light, spread across Yolen and all its people. Sho Del and humans could come together and create one species to live in harmony. The human and Sho Del ecosystems were also intermixed, creating wholly new hybrid species at every level. It is possible that some elements of each ecosystem were kept unchanged. Whether to act as a control group (like the South Scadrians), or through xenophobia, or just to preserve diversity, I cant say. This is related to one of the few pieces of Yolish trivia we have: that a common saying there was "May two worlds become one to you." Perhaps this is the same as many people on Earth say a variation of "may peace be with you" - because thanks to the intervention of the Shards, the conflict between these two ecosystems was ended by their merging. On Yolen, "two worlds becoming one" was literally synonymous with peace. And there was peace. Until there was Odium. Odium's planet was originally populated by humans who followed him from Yolen. As best as we know, those people destroyed their planet. They tried to manipulate the fundamental Surges, using even the Dawnshards, and in the end it was too much for them. They delved too deep, in the Moria sense; they opened the Bore, in the Collam Daan sense. This is a facially probably story. I mean, storms, look at what Rashek did - and he didn't have a Dawnshard - and he was fueled by an intent to Preserve! Yet still, I question the historicity of this account which blames humans. I rather expect that it was Odium who was trying to use the Dawnshards to do things that even his Shardic power did not allow him to do - such as change the fundamental rules of the universe. He failed. In his failure he destroyed his planet - maybe even his entire system. He needed help. He reached out to other Shards, who mostly told him to go pound sand - they knew what he had done to Aona and Skai and Uli Da. But when he reached out to Koravellium and Tan, they were willing to listen to him. In part because there were two of them and only one of him and they felt they could control him. In part because they felt sympathy for Odium's desperate humans - Cultivation to protect life, Honor to support a ruler's obligations to his people. (This leads me to another theory about what happened on Odium's planet - which is that he intentionally destroyed it, in order to create a situation whereby he could con Honor and Cultivation into helping him. It doesn't really matter - Honor is dead, and Rayse is too.) There were probably other factors at work. Perhaps Odium had something which Honor and Cultivation wanted: the ability to forgive them for breaking their word and choosing to reside on the same planet together. Perhaps he had something else they wanted: a Dawnshard. Perhaps they had a Bondsmith and so they felt they could create a pact which would protect them. Perhaps all three. In the end, they offered Odium a deal. He could return his people to Yolen. They wouldn't be too much of a bother - hell, if Honor and Cultivation had managed to find peace between the humans and Sho Del, dealing with just a few more humans would be easy. They would take these refugees. But in exchange, Odium would have to agree to restrictions, for Honor and Cultivation's safety. He would have to agree to be bound on a barren planet next to Yolen and would only observe and interact with his people through intermediaries. Odium agreed. Odium's planet was brought to the Yolish system. I expect this was done for practical logistical reasons, such as because Odium's people did not have enough idea of the Cosmere to find Yolen in the Cognitive Realm. While they were about it, they brought in a second planet, one just as barren, which would serve as Odium's prison. Suddenly Yolen went from being the only major planet in its system, to one of three. The other two were the planet that Odium's people came over on, and the planet on which Odium now resided. These were positioned to either side of Yolen so that visual astronomy, and therefore travel in Shadesmar, would be possible. This might have made it easier to get the humans from their planet to Yolen - but it would have been necessary for Odium's intermediaries to continue leading and viewing the people to whom he was a God. It is quite possible that Yolen's orbit was altered slightly, so that both of its two new planets would be visible to the naked eyes of its inhabitants. Unfortunately things did not go exactly as planned. Whether by natural occurence, or by Odium's influence - and of course I am disposed to expect the latter - the human/Sho Del hybrid race on Yolen began to worship Odium. By a turn, the humans that came with Odium began to ally themselves with Honor. This lead to a conflict between the two that threatened to be just as terrible as the ancient conflict between the humans and Sho Del. Cultivation attempted to solve this conflict the way she had solved the last one, by creating a hybrid species between the hybrid race and the humans. This did not work. In the end, Honor returned to Odium and offered him a new bargain: the Oathpact. Odium already had his ten intermediaries who could move between his prison-planet and Yolen. These ten humans... perhaps they switched loyalties to Honor, just as the human/Sho Del hybrid race had switched loyalties to Odium. Or perhaps something even more sinister is going on here. I can hardly speculate. This resulted in the Desolations, the death and splintering of Honor, and the modern history of Yolen as recorded in the Stormlight Archive. This is because my theory is that Yolen and Roshar are one and the same. The world we know as Roshar was once known as Yolen. The physical evidence has mostly been subsumed under crem. The memory of Yolen has mostly been subsumed under the eons, aided by the Desolations. That is why the location of Yolen is not known to (say) Silverlight - but rather than calling it 'unknown' or 'lost,' Khriss refers to it only as 'shrouded.' Its shroud is that it is known by the world which replaced it. It is hiding in plain sight. I do not know whether the Sho Del continue to exist, on Yolen or anywhere else. I don't see any evidence that unmixed humans remained on Roshar - or dragons, for that matter - so it seems unlikely that unmixed Sho Del persisted either. It is possible that they dwell in the oceans of what we now call Roshar. The Tai-Na could be the original Sho-Del - but I expect they are more likely to be a cross between the human Giant Turtle and a Sho Del equivalent. However, you can see much of the Sho Del ecosystem remaining in the rockbud-and-cremling ecosystem of modern Roshar. Perhaps this is the Sho Del ecosystem as it once existed - the equivalent of what in Dragonsteel Prime was called the fain. I expect that the Rosharan ecosystem is a hybrid between the Sho Del and human. Human dogs and their Sho Del equivalent were mixed to create axehounds; crabs and bulls were mixed to create chulls (a straightforward portmanteau of the words "crab" and "bull"). It may even be that the word for the human-Sho Del hybrid is a portmanteau indicating its origins. Part Sho Del, Part Human: Parshendi. The Parshendi are the Sho Del/human hybrids that were created by Honor and Cultivation to be the sole inhabitants of Yolen from the Shattering onwards. They were the sole - or at least, the primary - inhabitants, until Odium returned with his desparate band of humans. These humans were given Shinovar, which became a refuge for both the descendants of the humans of Yolen and their customs. I expect the Shin reverence for stone derives from the Yolish period, as a practice that resulted from humanity's conflict with the fain, whereby clean stone was kept in rings around towns so that moss, a sign of the advancing fain ecosystem, could be noticed as soon as possible. As with much in Sanderson's work, reasonable practices of survival and culture were eventually transformed into religion, disconntected from its original reason for being. It began on Yolen, was removed from its original context when brought to Odium's planet, and by freak happenstance ended up back on Yolen - a Yolen so changed that it was just as irrelevant, and yet, like so much of culture, persisted. The planet known to Vorinism as the Tranquiline Halls is what is known to Rosharan astronomers as Ashyn. What is not commonly understood is that the planet Ashyn is not native to the Rosharan system. Neither is Braize. When Odium destroyed his own system, Ashyn and Braize were brought to the Yolish system. Ashyn was brought to facilitate the transfer of its people to refuge in what is now known as Shinovar. Braize was brought to be a prison planet for Odium: Damnation. In subsequent years, we have seen interbreeding between the human/Sho Del mix known as the Parshendi, and unmixed humans. This can be seen in such human genetic groups as the Unalaki and Herdazians, wherein the human genetics are more and most dominant respectively. Perhaps this was forced by Cultivation in an attempt to recreate her solution to the human/Sho Del conflict of eons before. Or perhaps it is a pure happenstance, resulting from the Parshendi being half human - enough, it seems, to interbreed. We have seen similar levels of genetic expression as to another species: the Siah Aimians and the Natan. This makes me wonder whether the Siah are a nonhuman species and the Natan a new mixed-genetics species, or whether the Siah are a mixture like the Parshendi, and the Natan a point between the equal mixture and full human rather like the Unalaki or Herdazian. Because of his partial shapeshifting ability but humanoid appearance, it would not surprise me to learn that Axies the Collector, and his fellow Siah Aimians, are a hybrid between human and the other species of Yolen, the dragons. The Natan people are the result of breeding between this half-human hybrid and pure humans - the descendants of those who left Yolen with Odium, and then returned from Ashyn. As the Parshendi are to humans and Sho Del, the Siah are to humans and dragons. Perhaps there is even a mixed dragon/Sho Del species - I would suspect the larkin, like Chiri-Chiri. One related possibility is that the planet Yolen was moved somewhat in space, like Scadrial was. This may have been done in order to better accomodate the sudden arrival of two new planets in its system. Or it may heve been done before that, by Shards trying to create an ideal habitat for its combination human-Sho Del ecosystem. In either event, it seems like it required a little tweaking - much like Rashek giving the North Scadrians adaptation to ash and its effects. Perhaps throgh magical evolution, perhaps through the hand of the Shards, some animals of this new ecosystem were bonded to various nonsapient manifestations of investiture in the Cognitive Realm - what modern Rosharans would call the spren of Shadesmar. This can be seen in greatshells who bond to luckspren, or in Rhyshadium who bond to musicspren - probably the result of horses who left Yolen and returned later from Ashyn. (Fans of the Giants series might see reflections of Minerva in this theory.) One derivative theory might be of interest. How did the humans get from Ashyn to Yolen? They could have crossed through Shadesmar. I have a hunch that they crossed through the physical realm. I bet that Ishar, whether or not using a Dawnshard, created a physical portal between Ashyn and Roshar - a kind of super Oathgate, the Gotthard Base Tunnel or Danyang–Kunshan Bridge of Oathgates. I base this on only one thing: crem. We know that crem was not always part of the Highstorm cycle. Perhaps it was created by Cultivation in order to provide an environment that would be adaptable to her new hybrid ecosystem. That is perhaps the most likely explanation. But another is that a physical gate was opened between Ashyn and Yolen/Roshar and was never closed. This maybe by intention, or by Odium's trickery (maybe their pact said "it will close as soon as the last person crosses," and yet one billion-ass-year-old person remains on Ashyn, thus keeping the portal open.) This portal is located at the Origin. Because Ashyn has been rather destroyed, its shredded topsoil keeps getting blown through the gate. It gets spit out onto Roshar, where the Highstorms then carry it across the world. This would explain why the crem cycle only began so relatively recently in the life of the planet. It would also mean that, at every Highstorm, anyone on Roshar could look up and say "Ashyn fell from the sky." A final point is that this implies that Adonalsium was shattered on what we now know as Roshar. I expect this is likely from evidence we have of modern Roshar. The Shattering caused a release of energy so great that its seismic effects can still be seen in the form of the Shattered Plains. Yes, indeed, Adonalsium was Shattered in Plain sight. The only reason the Shattered Plains are still visible is that their deep crevices drain away the crem from the Highstorms - otherwise they would have been turned into a simple field long ago, the site of the Shattering forgotten. It would not surprise me to learn that some of the great features of Roshar were created through cymatics back when the world was still known as Yolen. This could have been through the deific music of Adonalsium. It could have been through the non-shardic "gods" of Yolen before the Shattering as referenced in WoB. Or perhaps it was simply as a result *of* the Shattering. That great release of Investiture carried with it the rhythms, the pulses, of that investiture, which were so great that they created structures such as the Windblades in an instant. In any event, I expect it shall be seen that such features of ancient Roshar are in fact relics, not of an older Roshar, but of Yolen. (Woolheads might say that Urithiru is Rhuidean, but things like the Windblades are straight up Paaran Disen.) Finally, it may well suggest that Frost has been on Roshar this whole time. Perhaps we've seen him already. Or perhaps he's a Sleepless who is also a Kandra, okay I'm tired I'm a stop now. Thanks for reading. Hope you all went long on tinfoil stonks.

Didn't think of that! Wouldn't surprise me. That being said, so many Greek myths are all about "a god shapeshifts to bang a mortal."I rather like "A god shapeshifts to bang another god." A pleasantly equitable twist on #zeusthegoose