Stormfather's Beard

Like I said, Dalinar's track record was arguably worse than Sadeas' - yet Dalinar had the opportunity to redeem himself. And if someone who commits war crimes can do it, arguably anyone can. For me, the problem doesn't actually come from the fact of Adolin killing Sadeas per se, but the premeditation elements (he fantasises about it multiple times before the event) and the fact he hides it after the event. We see people kill all the time in these books and sometimes those deaths are right, some are necessary, some are shameful. I would put this in the third of those personally, again not because of the fact of the death (a snap decision under physical threat, on the battlefield, or in a duel for example would not automatically be shameful) but because of the context it occurs in. As a point I strongly agree with your point re family - Shallan is probably not in a place to handle motherhood well right now - how well would she attach to a baby that Shallan perceives as hers but Radiant *doesn't*? That being said, Shallan was a complete mess in this book - Formless makes no sense to me in the context of Shallan's likely diagnosis coming out of OB (OSDD-type1b) so who knows. She isn't the only character to have been somewhat shafted by this book -arguably Kaladin, Jasnah, Shallan *and* Adolin all have their personalities undermined within the plot.

I didn't think Adolin was Edgedancer material before RoW and I still don't see it. I am reasonably sure that Maya is waking up because Honor's power is coalescing in Dalinar - all the dead-eyes are becoming more aware - thats why they turn up at Lasting Integrity - Adolin isn't doing anything to *them*. Dead-eyes seem to have not existed prior to the Recreance so it seems reasonable that Honor's Death (which happens around the same time I understand) would have created the problem - Adolin takes Maya through the perpendicularity of Honor in OB and over the past year it is implied that Dalinar is opening the perpendicularity a lot - that will flood Shadesmar with power. It is likely that this is what is awakening the deadeyes - Maya is just more ahead because Adolin took her through a perpendicularity. We know the spiritual realm can be wounded by the death of a Shard from the epigraphs in part 2 - Threnody being the specific example used - what if something similar is happening on Roshar but the humans aren't being affected, instead the spren are.

It is wrong because you *cannot assume what his behaviour would have been*. Who knows - he might have changed. Adolin took it upon himself to stop Sadeas from being able to redeem himself. We have seen redemption already in this book. Imagine if Dalinar had just been killed after Rathelas because of his acions. He has certainly killed hundred since then too. Arguably his death was also fully justified if you think Sadeas's was justified. Also, last I checked, we agree in a concept called justice. It is wrong for one person to administer "justice" because it cannot be blind - Adolin acted in vengeance not justice. There is a reason we use systems where the victim of a crime is not the arbiter of justice for the crime's perpetrator.

Ugh honestly, Adolin feels like he is made of plot armour right now. We need a way to sort out the honourspren - send Adolin (despite not being used as an ambassador *ever* before), We need a way to figure out how to undermine the importance of the Recreance - its ok, Adolin's so great his partially revived spren will do it. We need Shallan to "git good" - ok, make her fall for Amazing Adolin and it'll all work out. I *liked* Adolin before. I didn't love him, but he was alright - i liked how ordinary he felt most of his POVs. But an ordinary man, no matter how skilled, does not easily take down 14 men at once, fix DID, *and* argue a legal case in a foreign legal system. One of these alone might be problematic, all of them borders on the farcical. So Adolin is no longer an ordinary "everyman". He actually feels a bit Mary-Sue-ish because the only time we see real fear or anger in in relation to Dalinar and it only happens once. I want to see him face some consequences for the murder of Sadeas, not so much because he killed the man, but because he knows it was wrong (which is why he tried to hide it). Also, he fantasises about it multiple times which is beyond creepy - its downright scary. I also feel he has dragged Shallan (as Radiant) down with him. Arguably, prior to killing Ialai, she had only killed in self-defence, but now she hasn't. It worries me that he is a bad influence although in fairness, she is as bad for him because she seems happy to encourage him to avoid responsibility. Shallan felt broken in this book. She no longer reads like OSDD to me, despite Sanderson claiming he dug into DSM-5.

You can have a pyrrhic victory. You can have defeats that don't feel awful (Empire Strikes Back for example). The problem we've got is that there are already problems with the stakes starting to become a bit meaningless - and the characters have consistently and reliably beaten "god" now. Right, ok then, now what? It makes the book deeply predictable, which eventually becomes boring. Off the top of my head, I could see the book ending where humanity (and the listeners) are forced to flee from Roshar, reforge the Oathpact in a new form to hold Todium (and presumably Dalinar) on Roshar for a short time, ready to go back and deal with them once and for all in the second arc. There would be heavy losses, massive ramifications, but it could also be an ending where they make the best of a terrible situation. It doesn't have to feel bleak - there are plenty of examples of losses that don't have "bad" endings. Its all about perception. Also, Sanderson is not afraid to try things out. This book has a good deal more gore in it than previous books of his for example (not to mu taste but there we are), and this series has dealt with things like mental health (granted with mixed results) in a way that we have never seen before in his work. I didn't say I was right, but I hope to actually have a clever enemy - I overestimated Rayse as an enemy, assuming he had more than 3 moves ahead planned in his chess game,but he didn't - he was barely managing 2 moves ahead - fewer by the end - and if Todium is more competent he *should* win because Rayse was pretty close and he was (it turns out) a bit of an idiot.

Looks like we were all wrong Have a look at this: https://did-research.org/comorbid/dd/osdd_udd/did_osdd Side point, I do not think the representation of DID in this book was very good *assuming* Shallan's description at the end is meant to be right. To be clear, it would have been better for Formless to be the child personality than what we got which seems to suggest that he hasn't understood how the personas in DID really work.

As someone who wants/expects the heroes to lose in book 5 in a significant way, I think we might find that Hoid *has* been fooled here. I certainly hope so - much as I like him he should be able to make mistakes. Rodium didn't see his own death coming, so it is possible that Hoid has been equally fooled/misled. He certainly doesn't always have good foresight in other situations we've seen him in. I seem to be the only one here though that assumes this is *bad* for the good guys and not a major play - I know Hoid is tricksy but arguably, with cultivation's interference, Taravangian was already more crafty and dangerous than even Rayse was - and he had more direct knowledge and likely more control over the Shard and its intent because he is a new bearer. Also, while Todium might well have some old memories of Hoid (when he was Cephandrius) there won't be a personal connection afaik which means Todium will be more rational (at least initially) than Rodium was when it came to dealing with him.

My point with the drawings is that *she* did them but had no memory of them. That means it was an alter operating without the knowledge of any of the named alters. This is the likely to be the alter she calls formless. There is no reason to think that she didn't do those drawings herself. She also feels cold multiple times in other stressful moments before blacking out (don;t we see her find other drawings in this context in WoR?)- where she loses time because the persona is no longer in control. This is seen *multiple times* when she faces things that frighten her in tWoK and WoR. Once Veil and Radiant come along she fades out less because one of them takes over instead. Why it happened now is presumably because she was afraid of what was going on in Urithiru. Clearly Reshepir was making the radiants uneasy - hence Renarin also feeling her *but* I think it is Shallan's particular situation that has her draw things out unconsciously - if it were something Re-Shepir was doing, Renarin would also have strange drawings, but that isn't what he is describing. They share the feeling of wrongness, but their responses to that are different because they are different people. She regularly feels cold when afraid and then frequently does things that are out of character for the pShallan - this is indicative of another alter taking over (eg killing her father and killing Tyn). "Shock" is not defined as an emotional response in medicine - it is defined as inadequate blood supply to vital organs - usually blood loss but any critically low BP causes it (eg a heart attack or spinal shock) Your sympathetic nervous system goes into overdrive, trying to maintain BP so you might look the same as someone readying for a fight or flight response, but it is critically different. You are not "in shock" medically speaking if you are very scared - indeed the normal response is to raise your heart rate, resp rate and BP to be ready for a fight or flight response - and you break out in a cold sweat because blood is shunted away from the skin, exactly the physical feelings she has but she adds the emotional blunting (likely partial or complete dissociation) to it as well and *then* she acts in a way pShallan couldn't do - which suggests an alter takes over. My point is that a protector alter *would* emerge during a fight or flight response because that is it's job. I would argue that when she fights Tyn the "FIGHT" that she thinks is actually formless, not pShallan. In medicine you use the principle of the simplest explanation that covers all the symptoms to begin diagnosis. One condition causing many symptoms is *much* more likely than many conditions each causing one symptom each. If you have left arm pain, jaw pain, cold clammy feeling, chest pain, a "sense of impending doom", abdominal pain, pallor and nausea/vomiting, it is a heart attack until proven otherwise, not a stomach bug with pneumonia and angina all combined with a panic attack . Shallan has a pattern - when she wants to avoid something unpleasant, she forces herself to not think about it and if she can't stop the thoughts, she feels cold and then goes blank. In RoW we see her let another alter take over to avoid thinking certain things - it's the same pattern, only this time, the alter that takes over is one she knows and can communicate with, and it does so before she gets the cold feeling that I think is associated with formless. Having some alters that are not communicative is not unheard of in OSDD. Durkon's paradox might work in the Reckoner's but it isn't the basis for a diagnosis in a real-world condition - and when identity is involved almost *everything* relates to it because it is the very basis upon which we think and behave. People don't act "out of character" except during dissociation (where the personality no longer has control in any meaningful sense), when we use this phrase, it is almost always an unusual set of circumstances that results in the person behaving differently from their "normal" behaviour - which is all about context - they are acting according to their personality but in unusual circumstances. DID is literally a dissociative state, so pShallan acts in one way, Veil acts in another, Radiant in a third etc. Durkon's paradox is most useful when it makes you consider other alternatives if your hypothesis keeps failing to find a prediction. If I am right, I would not be surprised to see *more* of these kinds of weird drawings (like the drawings she does of the fireplace from her home in Jah Keved - which was done a year after Reshepir was banished) until she reintegrates. Eventually we will see formless act to protect her during this book or the next as Shallan reintegrates her personas and she will gain the memorises that the protector holds currently to protect the rest of the personality from them. She will stop having fade-outs or time-lapses when she reintegrates fully.

I broadly agree with your premise. I actually think Kaladin's breakthrough will come, either directly or indirectly through Lirin and his ability to put his failures behind him. Of course, that means through working as a surgeon. I can see an environment where Lirin and Kal have one or more conversations that eventually result in Lirin swearing the 1st ideal (Edgedancer) and Kaladin swearing his 4th. Given the likely main arc for RoW having a group of Fused/singers (probably including the The Pursuer and Moash) I see it happening during the attack and Kaladin's level-up allows them to win, albeit with heavy losses. What exactly the 4th ideal is is less clear to me, tho I agree it will involve being able to put down his burdens. I do wonder if it will involve leadership rather than protection in some way (given that the Jez ideals are protection and leadership). I also think the wording is much more unique to each individual than we previously assumed (Dawnshard spoiler):

Can't quite believe no-one has mentioned that Venli, when not in mate-form does not have sexual urges and whilst she maintains her current form is unlikely to start. By the same token, it seems unlikely that the fused have these urges either. Clearly Venli is not a-romantic, but she does find sex repulsive (when not in mate-form anyway), as did Eshonai. She had a partner tho that she had been in a sexual relationship with previously but clearly the concept of "once-mate" is very different to "marriage" in the Listener society. So we aren't going to have an "eyes meeting across a crowded room" moment for Venli and Kaladin. Any relationship would need to start with friendship. Whilst I could see mutual respect forming, I don't think Kaladin is easily going to forgive her for causing the everstorm to get closer than that. On top of that any "chemistry" people are seeing between him and Leshwi (which I *don't* see) is at best one sided on Kaladin's part (and we get no indication he thinks that way) because it is so unlikely that Leshwi would feel sexual desire for him right now. And even if she were to turn from Odium, we don't know if she would survive that, and even if she did, we can only guess how many humans she has killed which I think Kaladin might have an issue with. He can respect her, but love? What is the basis for this relationship? Shared ideals? If that's the only criterion then why did the relationship with Lyn fail? He's looking for something more and there is no reason to think Leshwi or Venli are the answer at this point. This is one of many examples where Kaladin simply gets paired with anything in a metaphorical skirt.

This is not how DID works. In DID, the real personality is *all* the personas put together. Think of it like this. When we are small, our personalities are like clay. Over time and with appropriate and healthy attachment to others (parents being crucial in this) the personality hardens into a single form which has multiple facets, like a crystal (indeed we call it crystallisation of personality). So we have lots of "sides" to us, because in different situations we can show a different side to our personality as we need to. In DID, something traumatic smashes the clay and splits it into loads of little pieces. Usually a single biggest piece becomes the main personality (for Shallan, this is the alter I call pShallan - it has red hair and is the one with the skill in drawing etc). However there are still loads of elements of the personality that are in little pieces. Over time, those lumps coalesce and can be put together into other alters, in this case Veil and Radiant. It is unclear how defined Formless is, but I suspect more formed than pShallan wants to admit. The point is that pShallan *is* Shallan, Veil *is* Shallan, Radiant *is* Shallan and, and Formless *is Shallan. But Shallan is not *only* one of these, she is *all* of them. We see formless type feelings even in tWoK - its trademark is her "feeling cold" and becoming emotionless/emotionally stunted. We see it manifest when she kills her father (age 16/17 and when she kills Tyn (age 17). It may not have existed as a discrete thing before that, but it almost certainly existed in a discrete form (albeit unrecognised) before Veil because Shallan blacks out when it manifests. She blacks out a lot, and it is likely dissociating to another alter - one that presumably has limited communication because it leaves her drawings, not explanations. Arguably, a child persona would not be able to communicate this way - it would lack the skills and understanding to attempt this. I'd expect to see childish drawings or other evidence of play if this were the case, even if Shallan had no memory of those moments. It stirs whenever pShallan or the other alters are afraid to confront something. pShallan isn't afraid of Ialai Sadeas, so she doesn't need it. She *is* afraid of memories though, and she is afraid of confronting them. From my (albeit limited) research into DID and OSDD, separate personas don't really manifest until late adolescence (ie Shallan's age in tWoK). This is because the "main" personality is newly unable to cope with the additional pressures of adulthood because it doesn't have many coping mechanisms - so "new" personas manifest as the facets of personality coalesce into discrete personas to allow the person to use multiple coping mechanisms. Thus the "child" persona may become much less childish because *if* it is also an apparently normal persona it might be the main persona and thus can grow and change. Child personas that remain more childish are generally found in individuals who use an adult persona as their "main" persona early on. Shallan's best option in her household was to remain childish - it was the safest option for her, in part *because* she killed her mother, although realistically she likely had this fragment of personality in place before her mother attacked her based on the natural history of DID. Additionally,we don't know what her original trauma was, so perhaps her remaining childlike was a better bet than becoming more worldly in that context.. In many households IRL, a child persona is risky, so they tend to manifest later in life as a coping mechanism (often as an escape mechanism) to avoid stress or responsibility than another alter is ill suited to handle. In those settings, the "child" persona would, of course, remain much more childish because it won't have matured in any meaningful way. As to the id, while this does feel very id-like, it is more complex than that. Like lots of things that relate to Freud, there are elements that are useful, many that are oversimplified, and yet more that are wrong. In this case, the reason I am assuming it is more basic is because it definitely doesn't communicate well. Its drawings are too complex for an id in Freud's understanding. It manifests in the places, and for similar reasons, but unlike Freud's id, we aren't talking about a straightforward lizard-brain that exists independently in all people (which of course doesn't exist). In Shallan's case, it is capable of some limited rationalisation because it draws things like the Thrill long before pShallan has seen them. There are many id-like qualities in the concept of a protector persona - but only because Freud was recognising something true, even if his theories of personality were flawed. We *do* all have a side to us that is capable of anything in the right situation - eg to kill in self defence, it is just that I believe this part of Shallan's personality is separated from her other alters in a way that simply isn't true for people with a fully crystallised personality.

Its certainly one option, although I would argue that pShallan is the child persona. She tends to be the most "silly" of the three, and is the least inclined to face difficult situations. She is the personality that has changed the least since the books started and she passes many of her "adult" responsibilities to Veil and Radiant. For example, she passes the HighPrincess duties to Radiant and most of the Ghostblood stuff to Veil. In contrast, pShallan is the one that goes back to her brothers (she even talks about wanting to run to Adolin because she doesn't like being the adult in the room). She also is the one who wants "adult" approval from Mraize as a father figure. I would argue that Formless is the protector personality. It may be non-verbal or have limited vocabulary. It may be masculine. I believe it is the primal drive to survive and is only allowed out when all other coping mechanisms (which have been divided between the alters) have failed. The alters fear it because it is instinctive rather than logical and it cannot be reasoned with. It also may be the alter that killed her mother, and killed Tyn, suggesting it is capable of very extreme acts . Arguably, it may have been bleeding through when Shallan killed her father *if* we assume that her feeling "cold" (usually during very stressful moments) is a sense phenomenon of Formless stirring (eg like a psychic sensation she describes as cold because she has no better mental descriptor of losing control over it). She needs this part of her personality - we all have it, but it is scary to her because it lacks the context of the rest of her personality. It is a useful part of her personality because it is her protector. If we assume it is a protector personality, then it makes sense that she would fear it, I am less certain that she would fear it if it were a child persona, even with the memories being a problem. She could have attached those memories to Formless if it was the only one among them able to contain those memories because it has lower intelligence/understading.

They do need to meet the ideals though. That is literally the gatekeeping mechanism. If you don't believe something strongly enough, you won't make oaths to uphold those ideals. What *does* Adolin believe in strongly? Well I'd argue that he places a lot of emphasis on family. That is laudable, but not related to any Order specifically. That's why I lean willshaper if he is radiant material - they are an order that seems literally *about* freedom so their oaths likely reflect that (they are likely fairly libertarian) which may allow him to maintain an attitude to freedom whilst still allowing him to maintain his priority of family. He certainly believes in some of the things the Orders do, but does he believe them or embody them *enough*? Not every virtue is represented in the Radiants. You can be virtuous whilst not being radiant. You can be immoral whilst being radiant (theoretically anyway) - Shallan literally lies all the time (and not always for virtuous reasons). The oaths represent a decision/desire to uphold your understanding of that oath above and beyond others. For example, Kaladin's oaths resulted in him defending a man he didn't like or support against a friend *because it was what was right* (at least in his perception). He did it despite no longer having his powers, knowing he was likely to die because he was already badly injured. That is a very extreme position. Most of us tend to go along with our friends, and it takes a strong conviction to oppose those you love because of your principles. I'm not saying Adolin doesn't have conviction in things. But a) does he have enough and b ) does he have conviction in the *right things* for the Radiant orders? A conviction that he needs to protect House Kholin (for example) does not automatically make him a suitable Windrunner (probably) because what does he do when House Kholin is the aggressor or oppressor? He's thrown House Kholin men at other highprinces, at the listeners and he sees it as necessary. All the windrunners we've seen have a problem with that (that's why they are still fighting). They may be better than Kaladin at accepting previous failures, but that doesn't mean they either agree or would support putting ordinary men on the front-line.

Yes I realise that I had written it very poorly - thanks! What I meant was perhaps better described as 'echoes' or 'mirrors', although it is very speculative on my part. Its a bit difficult to be sure about anything with the Unmade because there is so little canon information about them that is reliable. I'm not so hot on realmatic theory - sorry for being unclear.

Personally don't see him as anything. Adolin is alright as a character but there are several problems with him becoming Radiant. 1) Is there evidence that his soul is sufficiently broken to allow investiture to fill in those cracks? We don't see him struggling with a mood disorder, a personality disorder, a substance misuse disorder, or other neurological or psychological disorders, nor is he currently a squire to another order (including the Lightweavers - so proximity isnt the only factor - he's around Shallan all the time). Adolin gets a decent amount of screentime so wouldn't we have seen it? Perhaps finding out the truth of his father's past and the death of his mother might cause a massive trajectory change. That being said, I don't think we've seen that in the RoW chapters (yet). Adolin has been able to question his father before (see tWoK), and hasn't followed the codes vigorously before (also tWoK) so him getting a less than glowing view of Dalinar is something he has grappled with previously, albeit in a different way. His soul cracking sufficiently to allow investiture because several people around him are now radiants feels somewhat churlish. If it were so easy, wouldn't everyone eventually become radiant because they were jealous of Shallan's illusions or Kaladin being able to fly? 2) I think the reason that there is a reasonable amount of discussion on which order is because he doesn't fit any well enough to be certain. a) Windrunner: Adolin fits alright in this order - he is a "big sibling" type, as he looks out for Renarin, and he values the chain of command. That being said, he isn't overly concerned with protecting those outside his immediate circle and he protects them whether they need it or not. For example, Dalinar doesn't need protecting in many ways but Adolin tries to do so - barbs against Dalinar in WoR really get his blood boiling, even though in real terms there is no specific threat. He focuses on protecting reputation as much as the physical and mental well-being of those he feels honor-bound to defend. This is not something we see Kaladin do in the same way although perhaps that relates to their relative social ranks. b ) Skybreaker: Definitely not. If nothing else, Adolin has committed a crime and used his position to hide from the consequences of that crime. Of all the orders this is one of the least likely. c) Dustbringer: this order is curious as well as occasionally destructive, neither of which being traits Adolin meets. He is not especially intellectually curious, and doesn't feel the need to understand things - in fact he prefers to pretend to be more dense than he actually is, simply so that people don't bore him with details he doesn't need. He also lacks control - though given the nature of the bond, this is something that seems to need to be learned so this is probably less of a barrier. Given that the order tended to be auxiliaries - sappers and engineers, this doesn't seem to fit especially well. d) Edgedancer: I think people have landed on this because Adolin is an extrovert and likes people. The problem is that he shows no particular need to actually *help* those of lower stations in any great measure. Yes he helps a prostitute in tWoK. Once, and I don't expect he ever thought about it again. That makes him a decent bloke, but it doesn't mean he is likely to eschew high society and spend his time going to places like Hearthstone to help people (indeed he *doesn't* got to Hearthstone - although in fairness he was helping Shallan). He may be happy enough spending his time with lower born people, but we haven't seen him make any particular effort to improve their lives (there are literally starving children in Herdaz but he buys three pairs of golden boots in a week). I realise he's got limited opportunity, but my point is that whilst he is a decent person and a good commanding officer in many ways, he probably isn't extreme enough. The only Edgedancer we have insight into literally could leave someone to die and chose not to, despite knowing that she was likely to fail and also be captured/killed. We've seen Jasnah start trying to end slavery but Adolin can actually be a bit of a snob. That doesn't sound terribly Edgedancer to me. Yes Maya may be getting reawakened, a bit. But that doesn't mean she will automatically be bound to him even if he succeeds. More importantly, I would argue that him holding onto the blade actually serves two other functions. 1) It means he doesn't need to face the idea that he might not be a suitable candidate for radiance - he isn't bonding a spren because of Maya, its not *his* fault, and b ) it hides a narrative element for Adolin - which might suggest that he will become an antagonist - after all his Ryshadium is dead (which might have indicated a change in Adolin that he is heading down a bad road) and he cannot bond a spren because of Maya. If we get another named Edgedancer, my money is on Lirin, not Adolin. e) Truthwatcher: I don't think anyone thinks this is an option for Adolin. Truthwatchers are concerned with knowledge, especially of the esoteric. That doesn't suit Adolin at all. Renarin, despite being bonded to a corrupted spren, seems to embody the order much better - at least in terms of his personality. f) Lightweaver: So this has probably been brought up because of the murder of Sadeas. It seems that the lightweavers wouldn't have a real problem with this as long as Adolin's motives were "pure" in his own perspective. The problem is that whilst Adolin likes art well enough, it isn't a driving force for him, nor is it something he couldn't live without. He doesn't lie especially well and as far as we know, he doesn't actually lie to himself (likely a defining characteristic of the order). Most of us probably have some traits that would fit with the lightweavers, but again, it comes down to how extreme you are in them. Adolin, for my money, doesn't reach the bar. g) Elsecaller: so whilst the need to prove himself exists in Adolin, it is likely to be as much for others as a need to prove himself. He strives for excellence in duelling as much because of the status it would grant him as much as to prove to himself that he can. Our resident Elsecaller, Jasnah, doesn't feel the need to prove herself to others in quite the same way - she knows she is brilliant and uses perceptions of others to reach her goals rather than their appreciation/awe of her being an end in itself. More importantly perhaps, Elsecallers are "careful and patient" neither of which are good epithets for Adolin. h) Willshapers. For me, this is the strongest contender BUT I still don't think Adolin meets requirements. Willshapers value freedom, and again, in a society with slaves, we've never seen Adolin express strong feelings about it or make any effort to end the practice. Whilst he values his ability to dress his own way (hence the fashion choices) it doesn't matter that he isn't extreme in those choices as long as it is clear that he is making that choice. The problem is that in tWoK he wishes he *could* wear something else, so it is unclear to me whether his current clothing choices reflect that freedom of self-expression that the Willshapers prize. More importantly perhaps, he doesn't think it is unreasonable that others are required to meet certain standards (uniforms for example) even if he doesn't have to. That seems counter to the Willshaper ideals. Basically again, I simply don't think Adolin goes far enough. i) Stonewards: Another strong contender but again, probably not extreme enough. Adolin hasn't been seen to take on enormous projects keenly - he is happier in a back-up role. Whilst he does meet the "interested in warfare" aspect and is an expert duellist, I am less convinced that he "puts the interests of others before his own". He isn't selfish - this isn't a case of saying he isn't completely self-less therefore he is selfish, it is simply that I am less convinced that he is sufficiently self-less to meet requirements. He is dependable and reliable for the most part, but he doesn't necessarily ignore his own desires and focus on others. The murder of Sadeas for example is very problematic - the Kholin house did not need or want Sadeas dead - Adolin did. His behaviour in that moment was primarily about his wants/needs, not the greater picture. He was reluctant to take the princedom, despite that being an enormous problem, and he is flighty,at least when it comes to romantic relationships (at least historically). Again, to be clear, it isn't that he doesn't have some of these traits, it is that they are probably not defining for him the way Shallan's lies are defining to her or Kaladin's obsession with protecting people is to him. j) Bondsmith: I don't think we know nearly enough about this order. It is possible perhaps that upon finding the Nightwatcher or the Sibling, that Adolin could convince them to bind themselves to him. That being said, Adolin is not a natural diplomat nor is he currently a figure of unity. I think this *could* be a possibility but there are other people I think who are more inclined to become one of the three important Bondsmiths. Adolin might well become a "Bondsmith squire" though which would be a very good thing in many ways as he will be freer to help Dalinar in his goal of uniting Roshar (working as an envoy for example) whilst also remaining true to himself. To be clear this is not about bashing Adolin. I just think that the orders are filled with fairly extreme people who then reinforce those extremes on each other. Adolin doesn't often go to extremes (again the murder of Sadeas being an outlier, and not a positive one). I'm also not saying it can't happen, but I think that either we will need to get a better understanding of how the bonds actually form and the specific requirements for the Nahel-bond, or we will need to see some concrete changes in Adolin that move him from his fairly 'everyman' personality to a more extreme version of himself that can then manifest a bond.