Rai

Arguing that Rlain being gay would make him more of an outcast is kind of weird since homosexuality isn't even marginalized within Alethi society. I really don't think that argument stands up within the context of the story, lmao... you can argue readers would treat him as more of an outcast, I guess, but that's not something that the characters would do.

Yeah, I think people who are expecting Kaladin to be the traditional epic hero or make one of his comebacks like he did in The Way of Kings or Words of Radiance are gonna be disappointed. (I'm not one of those people, I think in RoW Kal's arc is the most interesting it has ever been and it would be really trite for him to do something like that every time, especially after the realizations he came to in Oathbringer, but... if you're one of the people who are only or mostly here for the action and epicness with Kaladin...) I don't think that's to say things aren't gonna get better for him at all, but Daniel Greene did mention his arc takes a more realistic route. He might not just say or reach the 4th oath in a way people are expecting, but I do still think that's gonna happen... even if it may not in this book.

Yeah, Daniel's issues seemed to be mainly structural? Just... hmm... Honestly, it still feels to me that these opinions are pretty subjective. Like, what you ultimately think will depend on what elements of the story you value the most. I was expecting less focus for certain characters, since Brandon already warned that would happen for this book. And it kind of comes with writing a ten-book fantasy epic. So I really can't say I care for that particular criticism. Otherwise, the things they seemed to have the biggest issues with aren't really a problem for me. I'm super happy we're getting a lot more focus on the Singers and Listeners, I've been hoping for that since book 1 - and apparently it paid off! I'm really glad to hear stuff really worked for Navani and Kaladin as well. I'd still take these reviews with a heavy grain of salt, though, since they're still just the opinions of two people out of hundreds who will review RoW and I haven't always agreed with their criticisms of other books. The one negative thing I do have to say about their reviews though is that both of them really seemed to contradict themselves on their commentary of the pacing... was it too slow or not?

I still think the previous chapters were perfect, actually - this is my favourite Part 1 of any of the Stormlight books so far, to be honest, I love how fast the pacing has been and how things have changed in the last year! But that's totally fair. I'm just nervous about when the bubble will finally pop for Lirin, because it has to eventually... he still is so totally oblivious to Kaladin's mental state. Not that Kal wants either of his parents to clue in anyways, given what he says in this chapter about not wanting his parents to know what he's been through... Definitely super excited for the next chapter though! I can't believe it's only two weeks now till the book's release.

Yeah, people in the books don't have modern takes. What they say are literally legitimate criticisms of the systems they currently live in that it only takes a socially-conscious person to make? Nothing that Rlain said is a stretch, or a jump that only someone who lived in our modern times would make. Frankly, I'm glad we're seeing more discussion like this, because people like Rlain should have a bone to pick with the way they're treated and not just quietly accept it. Not gonna lie, the assumption that people who are outspoken about societal issues are acting too "modern" genuinely irritates me... People have been making criticisms about society since time. It's not a new thing on Earth either, even if it is particularly in the limelight right now.

Yeah, like... Veil literally said she likes dumb girls because they're easy to impress, in response to Kaladin talking about how everyone likes smart girls (romantically speaking). I don't think it gets more explicit and textual than her shouting "I'm bixesual!" from the rooftops because, again, she literally says that she likes women this chapter. Especially in the context of Brandon mentioning years ago that he didn't intend to write her as bisexual but sees it in hindsight, this seemed like an intentional confirmation of her sexuality to me.

I agree with being happy that Kaladin can admit the truth of what is happening to him and the reality of his illness, but to call him "a whiny kid" for justifiably complaining about his situation is certainly... A Take, when that situation included going to war as a child, being enslaved, then sent to die in bridge runs because of the pettiness and greed of lighteyes, all while watching other darkeyes die around him. Why the heck should he not blame his unhappiness on his situation? He went through hell, of course he was going to come out with issues, and there was rightfully something and someone to blame and point fingers at. As well, it isn't fair to compare survivors to each other, because people will react differently, and... honestly, it isn't the Trauma Olympics. I get this kind of thing being frustrating if you're a different person, but not everyone can just move on or be expected to. WoR was him realistically reacting to and carrying the baggage of everything that's happened to him - he was still a kid at that point, and acted like one. He also showed amazing growth in that book, and I really don't think most people in his shoes would have reacted half as well.

Um, no... I keep seeing people make this mistake, but one Rosharan year is 1.1 Earth years, because even though their years are longer they also have shorter days, so it rounds out a bit. The difference isn't thaaaaaaat great, he still wouldn't have been in his mid-twenties on Earth during TWoK lol. (IMO, focusing on this distinction is pretty pointless anyways, because the characters always act like the age they're given in the books or their Rosharan year).

This chapter read as a pretty explicit confirmation of bi Shallan/Veil IMO honestly... like even before her DID developed Shallan has had some interesting descriptions of Jasnah since TWoK that seemed pretty. Not heterosexual to speak quite frankly. The comments Veil were making seemed to be a bit more than just making observations as a con artist. It really came across as explicit attraction (the comments about the legs???? and then the breasts????!!!!!!!) and like Subvisual Haze mentioned, Veil has tended to be more open about her desires than Shallan.

Whenever anyone asks if they're the only one who has [insert opinion here], no, you're not... you just have to check the main chapter discussion thread to see that a few people complained as well lmao. There's usually a few people who will agree, unless your opinion's really out there... Anyways, Kaladin never actually dealt with his core issues. He just managed to succeed at what he wanted in the first book, finally saving everyone he cares about, which allowed him to feel better for a while - but that never actually dealt with the fact that he can't always save everyone and his inability to come to terms with that. Kaladin has multiple issues that he's successfully distracted himself from and repressed, but as I see it, in book 4, they're all coming to a head; his lack of self-worth outside of being a soldier, not knowing when to let go and stop taking responsibility for the wellbeing of other people, et cetera... and his depression is always gonna be there at times and be an issue, not always for a specific reason, as it's a matter of brain chemistry that can't be controlled, but this time, the other unresolved conflicts Kaladin has within himself are compounding the depression. (I also have to add, there will always be the possibility that Kaladin might become suicidal because of his depression. Like... that's just how it works. It's not going to go away, it's something Kaladin will always have to deal with. It's not a simple matter of just feeling "mopey" from time to time, and I really dislike how that word keeps being used in relation to Kaladin.) IMO, Brandon had Kaladin mentally hit rock bottom and be taken off duty for the purpose of taking his character in a different arc. If it was still looking like Kaladin would remain a depressed soldier, still unable to deal with fighting the Singers/handle losing people, and that would just continue for the entire book, then yeah, maybe I'd call the arc repetitive. But the author clearly intends to actually do something with Kaladin's issues and take him in a different direction that will likely finally allow him to self-reflect and heal in a way that may allow him to say the 4th Oath, so... That said! I think it's fair if people feel emotionally drained or upset, because it is upsetting to see Kaladin like this. If it's not something you want to read, fair enough, and you're not insensitive for feeling that way. But I really do digress with the idea that Brandon still intends to follow the same story beats for Kaladin.

Kaladin's depression is really hard to read, but Brandon's also taking him in a different direction this book which is super interesting and refreshing... like, we've never had to see Kaladin in a position where he can... be relatively close to normalcy or outside of combat/war for a while. I think this will help his depression a lot! I've mentioned it before in the thread for the last chapter, but Kaladin's had unresolved issues since TWOK, and has clear issues about his self-worth (as in, he thinks being able to fight is the only thing he's got going for him. which... kal, no....) which he might be finally able to actually deal with, when he was just brushing them off or using objectives/his duties to ignore before. So... I know this is tough. His depression is emotionally draining for me too just because of how much I sympathize with and love Kaladin. But I really think this will be worth it in the end and that Brandon is writing him at the lowest we've seen Kaladin yet for a reason, and I don't think readers should give up yet.

I've seen a few people worried about Kaladin and Shallan becoming repetitive re: their mental illness, but I dunno. In Shallan's case, we still haven't actually seen all the trauma in her past (amazingly) so I'm not surprised that her illness is an ongoing problem since this actively informs her DID. As her mental health's progressed on-screen with every book, it's actually never read as repetitive to me? Though I can see some people just didn't like her fracturing into multiple personalities. But I feel optimistic that we'll see a positive and significant progression with her this book (after another downward spiral, albeit). Regarding Kaladin, he always found a temporary solution to cope with his depression in previous books... but they were never long-term solutions, as we can see in RoW. Sure, managing to protect and uplift Bridge 4 carried him through, but how can that still carry forward when the stakes grow higher and it becomes impossible to do in a planetary war? His realization of and inability to deal with that seems to be driving both his current depressive episode and his failure to speak the 4th Oath. This is not mentioning other issues also causing him to spiral, such as no longer being able to divide his side and the Singers/Fused into an Us vs Them mentality, what seems to be growing PTSD, et cetera. Hence why he's hit rock bottom now, because what was once his coping method is no longer sustainable (and he has a much larger group to look after, which I'm sure doesn't make his stress and the pressure any easier). All that said, the point I'm trying to make is that he won't be able to significantly progress in dealing with his depression until he actually faces his root conflict, the one thing he's never been able to come to terms with: he can't save everyone. And this isn't to say it'll solve everything, because his clinical depression will always be there and isn't driven by a specific trauma, but it will help him progress as a person. I really do think that once this is dealt with, Kaladin's mental health will become substantially better, and won't be taking up so much of his POV. So while I understand why seeing Kaladin at his worst again might come across as... tiring? To the reader, I can also see why Brandon thought it was necessary for him to hit rock bottom again. On the plus side, fighting does seem to be exacerbating his issues a lot and Syl mentions in her interlude that Kaladin seems to be sleeping better after being taken off active duty, so he'll likely be making gradual steps towards getting better throughout the book. Taking him away from fighting and placing him as a surgeon will also be super interesting for his character development, I think, as it was where he would have ended up if everything had worked out instead of going... catastrophically. (As an aside, while I think Kaladin is kind of naturally an edgy person, calling him an edgelord feels... pretty reductive of his actual issues.)