Xerun

Haha Chaos - do the Lord Ruler’s children matter? Brandon - no they do not *whispers* the Heralds though……

I know that’s what they’re going for. But even that seems dumb, the last time they tried to send a Delver to Detritus it got corrupted and attack Starsight. Putting all their eggs in that basket is incredibly foolish.

I’m surprised so many people like this book. I had the complete opposite reaction. I was so bored with the entire plot with the pirates, I only really liked Peg. The plot regarding the Path just felt like exposition dumps. I was most annoyed that Spensa decided against staying in the Nowhere to at least secure the other Superiority mining sites. Cutting them off from Acclivity ring, even if it’s only temporary, should have been the first thing she tried to do. Hopefully Jorgen is able to rectify that in the next book because as it stands they are hopelessly outgunned i think the novellas were way better then this book and I think this is my least favourite.

I’d say yes. Taravangian made the deal with Odium not Rayse, given the deal between Odium and Dalinar stands then that deal must still stand. Taravangian agreed to serve Odium and he seemed to feel that when Odium decided that betraying Dalinar would suffice as his part of the deal. So I’d say yeah as part of the deal it’s safe. but given he now controls the vessel and can somewhat shape its intent then Taravangian can stop any harm coming to it anyways.

I expected to get something MORE from Venli. She felt very much an afterthought to this book. I expected her to take a stand and do something heroic. But even as the book ends it doesn’t seem like she’d be willing to do anything Radiant. I needed much more development for her.

It’s a very good theory and I can see it for Taravangian and Dalinar. But Lift is the one I have trouble seeing because it means that Cultivation is actively planning for her own demise, RoW seems to indicate that she is planning for the good of the Cosmere and I don’t think she’d be happy seeing her shard go to someone as wayward as Lift. ThAt being said she ascended Taravangian to Odium and that seems super bad for the Cosmere to me. I also think from a literary perspective having multiple characters ascend starts to take away the awe of it. So the less characters we have do it the better. i must say I do like the idea of Dalinar ascending time Honor only to lose the Battle of Champions and have Odium in charge of another Shard. That seems very very dangerous.

I think this sort of question needs to be asked in a years time. Currently there is a LOT of Cosmere info dropped and it’s all very exciting. I think once that feeling goes away and it becomes common knowledge the pacing issues will definitely be more apparent. great book but yes the worst of the 4 (still an 8/10 though so better than almost everything I’ve read)

No

Ok. Out there theory time. Mraize says Gavilar was trying to become immortal. Gavilar yells Szeth “you can tell Thaidakar he’s too late” implying he had succeeded. We know Gavilar was attempting to move things to Braize and had antivoidlight. what if he moved his cognitive self to Braize and the loophole is the champion doesn’t need to be alive. Book 5 contest of champions Dalinar V Gavilar

Perception id say. Syl states to Kaladin that Szeth’s blade would let her become a “Windrunner and more” so there is obviously stuff there but as Syl says in Rhythm of War. There is more to their powers but no one has had time to play with them and experiment.

When sorry? I just read it and Chapter 2 is the first meeting with Syl, but that’s her talking and Syl later states that she’d been following for a while. But the only fight before that scene is Kaladin fighting to protect Cenn and it only describes him as fighting like the wind. Which we know has to do with his connection/destiny (he’s a good spearman because he becomes a good spearman) can you point me to the chapter/page?

I think the fact that Cultivation (maybe Nightwatcher) accepts the Oaths of the Listeners, makes me think it has to be a Listener that bonds the Nightwatcher. My initial feeling was Rlain, but I could see Jaxim, Thude as potentials. But my current biggest theory is Leshwi, although I’m fifty fifty on that as if her Honorspren returns then she’d be better suited that way.

I do think it’s important to note that Wyndle then asks Lift if those are the exact words she used and Lift says Cultivation should have been able to work it out. I feel what Lift says she said is not exactly what she actually said.

Ok. Starting my reread of RoW and Godeke in chapter 22 talks about how I’d Honor was killed he wasn’t the true god and that god cannot be killed. This reminds me that both Dalinar and Sazed have said the same. So now I’m getting more and more certain that Adonalsium survived the shattering and was just de-powered and is hiding as Sixteen. Vessels can be destroyed but not Shards of Power and id like to think this can be applied to Adolnasium as it is the true God.

I felt he used Moash to connect to him. So Odium formed a connection to Moash who then connected to Kaladin. Moash’s Suicide request in chapter 8 let him use the existing “holes” in Kaladin’s soul.

I also didn’t quite understand how his letter to Shallan fit with the story. It seemed like it was written to her after her attack, but he was immediately arrested. Not sure if I followed it right or not.

I’ve been thinking this was more and more likely as I’ve read the books but then I thought of a potentially huge issue with doing this with Gavinor or Oroden. cant they just forfeit?

Odium’s number is 9, Cultivation is 2. 9*2=18. SOLVED. But seriously I don’t know

The only thought I had here was that when we’ve seen shards die before it’s the Vessel that is destroyed but the shard persists. Adonalsium isn’t really a Vessel but a true god. So even though his power was stripped he survived. Dawnshard spoilers:

Weaknesses: I think the Flashbacks needed to be spread throughout. It killed the Pacing of the later parts since we had about the same amount of flashbacks just spread throughout less of the book. Kaladin and Navani needed a lot of trimming for Part 3 and 4. I felt some of those chapters dragged a lot and get repetitive. Venli needed something bigger to do as main character. She ultimately sucks in Stormlight as her big moment and it’s largely overshadowed by the Heavenly Ones switching sides and fighting. Compare that to Kaladin saving Dalinar, Shallan fixing the Oathgate and Dalinar uniting the realms. Personal gripe. Kaladin Lost his lashings and I thought this would be a great moment for him to train and become competent in Adhesion. Instead he’s just given a Fabrial which works the same. Just give him his powers if you wanted to do this. Strengths: everything else.

Ok after listening to Jofwu’s explanation I’m more onboard with the Testament reveal. Still don’t love it, but there was some foreshadowing to it (specifically Shallan saying that Pattern’s voice was not what she heard when she first Soulcasts) but I think there needs a lot more explanation for me to be fully onboard. But I do agree that it was Testament blade that killed Tyn

Hmmm ok looking through it. The only evidence people seem to have is the difference in Shardblades. However I’ve read through every mention of Shallan’s Shardblade and Brandon never really describes it. The closest is the Silver/Garnet. But later on in Oathbringer Patternblade is ALSO described as Silver. It’s the best piece of evidence there is but at the same time you could also read that as Brandon just not mentioning the faint garnet lines during the Tyn killing. ive read through that topic and the other piece of evidence is “it wouldn’t be the first time Shallan betrayed someone close to her”. But that could also both apply to both her mother and father. the evidence against this being preplanned seems bigger 1. When Shallan kills Tyn she’s bonded to Pattern - so if it was Testament then she should have heard Deadeye screaming like every time a Deadeye has been summoned by a Radiant. 2. the timings don’t make sense on Shallan’s powers. She manages to use Lightweaving when she meets Wit as a child. And then later Soulcasts a goblet into blood. However it’s stated that Pattern hasn’t met her until the ship with Jasnah which is chapter 1 Way of Kings. 3. If Shallan didn’t meet Pattern till the ship then she only swears her second oath at the end of Words of Radiance. But she already has a Pattern Blade before that. 4. This one has been explained but I wasn’t overall happy with it - Testamant should have appeared during Oathbringer Shadesmar trip. 5. Brandon said getting the continuity right for the Testament reveal was the hardest part of the book and required many rewrites and I can’t see that being an issue if it was planned all along. im looking forward to book 5 going into this more but I have to say nothing I’ve seen convinces me that Brandon didn’t just have this idea for this book.

Care to share with me what that foreshadowing was?

I think it has to be the Patternblade. Shallan says no further Oaths between the end of Way of Kings and when she needs to use the Oathgate. She outright states her blade is the only one capable of working the gate as it needs to reshape to the lock. Additionally when she passes the blade to Kaladin in the chasms she tries to speak to Pattern and then remembers that she’s given Pattern to Kaladin. So Pattern was capable of becoming a blade before she spoke the truth about killing her mother. So she at least had access to Pattern from speaking the I killed my father truth. If I truly think about it I think Testament was an idea Brandon had writing book 4 that wasn’t planned for as so much about it doesn’t make sense with what we’ve previously been told about Deadeyes. But I’ll need to reread the series to see how wrong I am.

I kind of want all of Bridge 4 to all swear up to the 4th or 5th Oath and just have a solid beat down and take the Honorblade off him leaving him bruised and broken to live with the pain he’s caused.