Crusadeus

I think I have paced a small trench in my home waiting today. Whats one more day right?

In rereading Words of Radiance, I came across this nugget. It is from Frost’s letter to Hoid: “Whether this was Tanavast’s design or not, millennia have passed without Rayse taking the life of another of the sixteen. While I mourn for the great suffering Rayse has caused, I do not believe we could hope for a better outcome than this.“ It sounds like even to Frost, the possibility that Honor allowed himself to be shattered because it was part of a wiser design is a very real possibility.

Very cool. Then consider this: Questioner (paraphrased) Please explain what you will about Shards and Splintering and Slivers. Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) An event happened long ago which destroyed something called Adonalsium into 16 pieces. And 16 people took up that power. Questioner (paraphrased) People? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) I call all intelligent species people. If someone takes up the power and lets go of it, it has the effect much like a balloon that's been stretched and then the air is let out. I call that a Sliver; based off of the Lord Ruler calling himself the "Sliver of Infinity". The Lord Ruler is someone who held the power and then released it. And so, current Slivers are the Lord Ruler, Kelsier, and there may be others around who at one point held the power and let go of it. A Splinter is a term used by certain people in the cosmere for power of Adonalsium which has no person caring for it, no... no person holding it, which has attained self-awareness. Questioner (paraphrased) So is that like the mists and the Well? Are they... Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) They are not, because they have not attained self-awareness. But, the Seons are self-aware. So, any piece, for instance there were some spren on Roshar before Honor and Cultivation got there. Those were already Splinters of Adonalsium where he had left power which attained sentience on its own. So, it can be intentional is what I am saying, does that make sense? You have seen other Splinters. Questioner (paraphrased) Are the highstorms related to the Splintering of Honor? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) The highstorms are more related to the mist from Mistborn which terminology we have not discussed yet. You have seen Splinters quite a bit on various.planets Steelheart Seattle signing (Oct. 14, 2013) Is it possible then that the Dawnshard is a splinter of Adonalsium that has gained sentience? Is it possible a Dawnshard is something living?

Interesting. Explain. Where do we get that information?

Here is my thoughts on the Dawnshards. Based on other uses of the word Dawn in these books it seems to indicate the earliest form of something. Dawnchant being the earliest form of communication. Dawnsingers being the earliest inhabitants of the Roshar system. To me it seems like Dawnshards become the earliest power manifest in the system. We know they can bind voidish and human. We know they can beat odium or destroy the world. To me a power like that would have to be Adonalsium himself. I think the Dawnshards are splinters of Adonalsium. His own power splintered before he shattered. We know already that Adonalsium did this, we just don’t know where they are. It also makes sense that the Sleepless, a race created by Adonalsium, would be the protectors of it, not the other two races, human or parshendi. This also goes along with a theory in these threads that Roshar was Adonalsiums art studio, a playing ground. If Adonalsium splintered his power which has the power of creation and destruction, it is not that far off to think that the Dawnshards are in fact splinters of Adonalsiums power. Thoughts?

I will unite instead of divide. I will bring men together.

"She let the work consume her. The familiar sound of pencil on paper, the focus of creation. Beauty was out there, all around. To create art was not to capture it, but to participate in it." - Shallan, Words of Radiance, Ch.47, pg. 554. I really like the idea that Adonalsium was using Roshar as his creative playground. I find that Hoid gives the best idea of what was happening with Adonalsium in conversation with Frost in The Traveler: “Is that soot in your hair?” “Maybe.” The elderly man sighed, walking across the short clearing and settling himself down on a large protruding tree root. “You can’t keep doing this.” The Traveler continued to eat his seeds, though he had started to chew them up rather than spitting out the pits. “You will just make things worse.” “Ati and Leras are dead,” the Traveler said, picking a piece of seed out from between his teeth. The elderly visitor said nothing, and the Traveler eyed him, leaning in closely, studying the man's eyes. The pupils were rimmed with a silver far too metallic to be natural, at least for a human. “You sly old lizard!” the Traveler said, pointing. “You already knew! You were watching! And here you were chastising me.” “I did NOT interfere,” the elderly man said. ”You meddle in things we promised to leave alone. Things that we—” Traveler held up a finger, interrupting him, then slowly he pointed at the older man. ”I. Made. No. Promise.” “You made your choice. Why now seek for things you so eagerly denied? My friend, it’s the dangerous desire, the lust for power best untouched, that created the situation in the first place.” The Traveler did not reply. The two sat for a time, listening to the winds through the garrulous trees." This does seem to support your creation theory. It seems like that is a very possible reason for the sixteen to have shattered Adonalsium. They wanted the power of creation. This is not the first time this theme has popped up in literature, The Silmarillion and The Bible to name a few off the top of my head. You get thumbs up from me on this theory.

We do know that Honor's death was a protracted event just like Preservation. And we also know that shortly after his death he splintered himself. This happened shortly after the Recreance. We know that the shattering of the Plains happened after the Recreance. We know from Kaladin's dream, that something struck the center of the plains and caused a symmetrical shattering outward from that spot. We know that spot was Stormseat. Either something struck that spot as they say. Or a massive amount of energy/investiture exploded from that spot. Any more thoughts on this theory?

Here is my theory that Tien was speaking with the Sleepless, why the Sleepless would be talking to Tien, and what that could possibly mean in the future for the Sleepless and the Radiants.

This was really awesome. Here is something additional to think about. The Shattered Plains was originally envisioned as existing on the world of Yolen, Hoid's homeworld and the site of the Shattering of Adonalsium, until Brandon moved it to Roshar in the redrafting of the Way of Kings. (See Way of Kings Annotations for reference) If Brandon's original idea was that the Shattered Plains was the exact location that Adonalsium was shattered, it might stand to reason that the story remains the same, just on a different planet. I would say it is likely that whether in the Spiritual, Cognitive, or Physical realm, Honor was shattered at the location of the Shattered Plains.

Id be honored to do so.

I am a Bondsmith...one of three. So lonely.

So, The Song of Wars is one of the songs detailing the oral history of the listeners, detailing the history of listener wars. It mentions that it was not listener gods who made the Shattered Plains “They blame our people For the loss of that land The city that once covered it Did range the Eastern strand. The power made known in the tomes of our clan Our gods were not who shattered these plains. ” —55th stanza We know that the listener gods are the Fuzed/Unmade/Odium. If this account is true then they did not cause the shattered plains to shatter. So who did? I believe it was Honor who willingly allowed himself to be killed, thus shattering the plains. I do love the line "We killed you! WE KILLED YOU!" but to me, it just goes to show that even Odium didn't know what really happened when Honor was "killed."

Not sure if this has been discussed before. Here are a couple of thoughts I have regarding Honor and his death. 1. Is it possible that Odium didn't directly kill Honor, but rather, Honor allowed himself to be killed because he knew it needed to happen for the greater good? (Think Obi-wan Kenobi vs. Darth Vader) If yes, why? 2. I believe that Honor's death happened right on the spot that the shattered plains....shattered. We don't know what caused it to branch out and create chasms of symmetrical proportions but the shattering of a shard just might do that. Thoughts?

Cognitive Shadows is exactly where I wanted to go to next. Again, go back to the original post of why Tien was talking with the Sleepless. If in fact, they were "recruiting" Tien, their overall objective doesn't just lay on Roshar. It's obvious, this immortal world-hopping race has a larger plot to play. As I mentioned, they are watching the Radiants to find out who can wield the Dawnshards. The Dawnshards can obviously destroy worlds and Gods. But is it possible they can do the opposite as well? But I digress, The Sleepless need to recruit those who will be able to join them worlds and worlds away, without being connected to the world they reside on. It is possible that Tien going through the process of dying started him on this journey. This may be what Gavilar is talking to Nale and Kalak about in the prologue of the next book. So I am fully supportive of Tien being still alive, Tien being dead, or anything in between that's not what intrigues me. It's the Sleepless talking to Tien and the why behind that. Tien talking to cremlings because he was a soft, sweet, gentle, boy is exactly what Brandon would want you to think especially if it was a big plot point. What we do have is Brandon saying watch anytime that a cremling is mentioned because the Sleepless may be involved. We have no other evidence that Tien talked to any other creature due to him being a gentle sweet boy. And we have Hoid talking to a cremling (a confirmed hordeling from the Sleepless) waiting for Jasnah. There is actually far more evidence that the Sleepless was talking to Tien than there is that he was just nice and not cut out for war and that's why he was talking to the cremling.

it IS a good point. Also, if Mistborn Era 4 is going to be Brandon's final storyline and the sleepless "play a major part" in the story, then what they are doing now is setting up something major later on, on Scadrial.

People thought the same thing about Kelsier not being dead. Yet there was a bigger Why happening that needed Kelsier to be alive. And it certainly didn't diminish the effect it had on Vin and the crew. The ultimate question isn't whether Tien is alive or not. It is why was Tien talking to the Sleepless. The answer to that drives whether he is alive or not, how the dawnshards play into the plot, why will the Sleepless worldhop, etc...

Thank you for saying it is not impossible. I respect the opinion that you have that it is highly improbable too. And by all accounts, it IS highly improbable as we have all been following Kaladin and his journey. But, again, unless there is a bigger Why at stake then this is just a cool unlikely theory. But for me, it all goes back to Brandon pointing out that Tien talked to cremlings, something only Hoid has done on purpose. It is also very possible that Tien was approached by the Sleepless and he said no to them.

So that goes back again to the why. I wrote about Kaladin and his broken nature. The Nahel bond works when there are broken people to be reforged. Depending on why Tien wasn't killed or faked his death, could cause Kaladin's cracks in his soul to ultimately widen and destroy him. It cant be assumed that if Tien is alive and comes back that it fixes everything. The only way Tien could not be dead would be because there was a greater "universe-in-peril" need in play. That's where dawnshards come in. Worlds would end if their secret got revealed. That is very "universe-in-peril" kind of talk. The dawnshards can stop Odium but may also destroy everything. Who's to say that the Sleepless arent tracking down people who can wield them. Tien could have been one. We already know that the Sleepless will play a major part in Mistborn Era 4 so its possible they are trying to find pure people around the cosmere to handle the dawnshards.

Way of Kings Chapter 44. That's a good one. I've thought about that. Yes, he did lay with him for hours. But one thing we have definitely seen in Brandons books is that what we see and read is not always reality. Shallan saw Jasnah run through with a sword, but we know what happened there. Lopen can grow an arm back and Dalinar can completely forget a wife's name. It is not far fetched an idea that Tien could have used Lightweaving or the Sleepless to fabricate his death

Like I said. I hope for Kaladin's sake I am wrong, but until someone can prove otherwise...its a pretty compelling theory. BrantSucks is entitled to his opinion.

Now for the Sleepless. A race created by Adonalsium himself. Protectors of the dawnshard. It is possible that the Scouring of Aimia occurred because the Unmade found out the dawnshard existed and was on Aimia and was a threat to their master Odium. The Sleepless appear to be guarding several secrets from humans, including something that Dalinar seeks but "must not know". The sleepless are watching Dalinar, Kaladin, Eshonai, Szeth, Venli and Shallan believing they are crucial to the survival of Roshar. They will kill anyone who tries to reach the shores of Aimia. We know that the Cook, who killed all the crew who tried to get to Aimia, would not reveal any secrets to Kaza even as she is dying, telling her that doing so could result in the "ends of worlds". We know that Dawnshards have resulted in the end of Ashyn already. So whatever the Sleepless are protecting and doing it is universe-in-peril level. Javi (paraphrased) I'm really curious about Aimia and I hope to see more about in the fourth book. Have the Heralds or Hoid been there and will they reveal some stuff about it? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Yes, the Heralds have been there and yes, Hoid has been there. However, I don't think there will be info about Aimia in book four, but in a novella I'm planning to write, like Edgedancer. The story will be about some characters travelling to Aimia. Celcius232 (July 18, 2019) The Heralds, who cant die (except by the Vyre dagger) have been to Aimia. Hoid has also been there and has not been killed. Hoid most certainly know who the sleepless are and most likely what they are doing. Hoid has been confirmed to have been talking to the Sleepless... Questioner The Epilogue of Words of Radiance. Brandon Sanderson Yes. Questioner Hoid makes particular note of a cremling. Brandon Sanderson Yes. Questioner Dysian? Brandon Sanderson Hehehehe. You're starting to learn! You're starting to learn. Questioner That epilogue just got so much-- Brandon Sanderson Yes, he was speaking to one of the Sleepless there. He has spotted them and they-- Questioner So, he knows. Brandon Sanderson Oh, he knows! Questioner Because he makes a comment about having “no intelligent audience.” Brandon Sanderson Yes, yes, yes. *laughter* Of course he doesn’t have an intelligent audience! Arcanum Unbounded Chicago signing (Dec. 6, 2016) The ONLY other person who has been caught talking to cremlings, to the point where Brandon goes out of his way to mention it....Tien. Something more is going on there, than just nice feelings.

That's assuming that Tien being alive would be a nice thing. Again, I think Tien being alive could be one of the cruelest things that could happen to Kaladin. I HOPE for Kaladin's sake that Tien is actually dead. But knowing Tien was a Radiant, a Lightweaver, and the knowledge that he was possibly talking with the Sleepless, I can't say he is for sure dead.

I have thought about what it would do to Kaladin if it is found out that Tien is actually alive. Would it heal his broken cracks that Nahel bonds are filling? Or would it widen them? I think it has the possibility of going each way. If Amaram didn't actually kill Tien, but it was a choice Tien made to disappear, would destroy Kaladin. He would have spent most his life hating someone who didn't "deserve" his hatred. Tien would have the ultimate lie/truth for a cryptic to bond to. So, IF, this is all true that Tien is still possibly alive the question would be Why? Why would this progress the story or help the universe at peril.

LadyLameness You've said that Tien was beginning to bond a Cryptic before he died – did he use Surgebinding before he died, even unconsciously? If yes, did we ever see it on screen? Brandon Sanderson He was far enough along to start having some of the-- let's just say he was far enough along to have sworn at least one oath. Skype Q&A (Oct. 8, 2018) This is another possible help to the conversation Draconic Lingerer So you had had a Word of Brandon that had said that Tien was on his way to becoming a Lightweaver. My question is, did he ever actually become a Lightweaver; did he speak an Oath, and if so, did he bond with a Cryptic? Brandon Sanderson That's an excellent question. If you look closely through the first book, you will see Tien having some slight Lightweaving effects. In the back of my head, he was where Kaladin was during most of the first book, where it wasn't really official but there was a spren hanging around. He was very close to-- by the time he left, already done that. I would say he never actually managed to get that bond working... Otherwise, perhaps, things would have played out differently than they did. FanX Spring 2019 (April 19, 2019) This is another help to the conversation. It muddy's the possibility that Tien is still alive but doesn't completely kill the idea.