Autobrecciation

This makes a lot of sense. It also makes sense why the Everstorm is red, because it has been corrupted and moved.

I'm interpreting this as a red herring for a broken Vyre having lost Odium's light, Stormblessed dunking on him over and over, never stopping. Seriously though, this feels dark and is likely the moment where Kaladin swears the fifth Ideal.

I think the unmade are just spren that have been affected by the surge of transformation powered by voidlight. Some unmade are more powerful spren (The ones that are intelligent), and some are more basic spren (Like the Thrill). I'm also partial to think the unmade are ancient spren maybe of the Dawnsinger Gods, pre Honor and Cultivation.

So we have the "We Chose!" moment, but what if the Radiants knew there was a risk to imprisoning BAM, did it anyway, which Deadeye'd their spren. They didn't kill them by breaking oaths, they deadeye'd them through the imprisoning of BAM. Sacrificed their powers and Spren to defeat an enemy, which damaged the soul of Roshar. What are the unmade? I think we get some clues RoW, but what if BAM is like, the unmade soul of Roshar / planetspren? Planetspren has been asked about before and got RAFO'd so I'm curious if that ties in. What if the Unmade were the spren Gods of the pre-human Roshar, maybe the Singer's betrayal was offering their gods to Odium, he unmade them, in return for new forms (This was the betrayal of the spren maybe?).

I'm still leaning Ishar, because in the Prologue, it is Ishar who justified the abandonment of the Oathpact. Also, rereading that just now it mentions Kalak putting his sword with the other 7. Is one missing or is that an old typo? EDIT: Figured it out, Jezrien puts his sword in (8) then Kalak puts his in (9).

I know there is no logical way for it to work, but I want fifth ideal to grant a Ryshadium somehow.

So, Shallan has a deadeyes spren, which I kind of thought nothing of until the livestream Thursday where Brandon said something to the effect of "Old knights radiant that broke their oaths did not make a deadeyes". This plus the "WE CHOSE" moment has implications for deadeyes. I think that in order to become a deadeyes, more than just breaking the oaths has to happen, the spren has to choose to die with the oath (Likely for some motive with the Knight Radiant involved). What the heck does that mean for Shallan? I think Testament probably chose to become a deadeyes to help Shallan conceal the Truth from even herself. I was also confused about Heleran, and his shardblade but I've realized I'm just an idiot for believing anything Mraize had to say rather than realizing Heleran was probably working for the Ghostbloods.

Ok so I've chimed into several of these discussions, and honestly I'm all over the place on this topic, generally depending on which section of Moash I've gotten last. Previously been against but think its likely he will get redemption, but now I have been thinking about what purpose can he bring to future plot lines. I've thrown a few around redemption story archetypes such as Darth Vader's Redemption, Smeagul, Padan Fain, Saul/Paul. Remember the fifth ideal for the Skybreakers is like, "I am the Law" and transcending letters to be the embodyment of justice. What is that for "I will protect" if not something like "I will know who it is right to protect". Currently I'm leaning towards Moash needing to be saved, and Kaladin leaving him to die. Maybe Moash will have a partial redemption arc, Kaladin will have a chance to save him, but Moashes selfishness will bite him in the rockbuds. Kaladin won't have to protect him, and maybe he will die because of his toxicity as he is beyond saving. So like, redemption fake out, with Kal giving him the finger as he falls into a volcano? I admit this might be wrong because I thought it (redemption arc start) was going to happen in part one of RoW when Moash showed up.

So...completely off topic, but did you watch the Clone Wars? I think for me, its the extra characterization he gets from that series that makes him more empathizeable - something that was incomplete with just the prequel movies. It's too the point that it makes Return of the Jedi better (Where previous to watching the clone wars, it was my least favorite of the OT). On topic, I think you are right that it feels shallow to just let someone sacrifice themselves to save someone, and that redeems them. It really depends on the arc we are given for Moash. I'm on my reread, just finished the part where Moash kills Leshwi and is spared for being passionate. I don't really feel like Moash / Kaladin's friendship was well developed in tWoK and WoR; certainly not nearly as well as Adolin / Kaladin. In fact, Moash in tWoK is kind of the last cremling that doesn't trust Kaladin. Take that to where he goes on OB and RoW - He gives his feelings over to Odium, seems completely uncaring - I honestly don't understand how Odium likes him while he feels so uncaring / passionless. For the future, if you want to go biblical analogs, his current moment really feels a lot like Saul/Paul - including having now been struck blind. He kind of acted like a prophet of Kaladin for parts in RoW, just trying to get him killed. I have previously posted about how I think Moash is going to be Smeagul somehow, and I keep coming back to him giving up his feelings - feeling nothing is the opposite of Passion. We also now have T-Odium, who may or may not care about Moash at all. Off the rails prediction: Moash, feeling betrayed by old Odium, now stuck with his pain as a servant to T-Odium, has an arc: escape Odium, finds Dai-Gonarthis (Not a real unmade?), who takes away his pain (As per deathrattle). Moash ends up bonding it and becoming some sort of anti-Radiant, and a more powerful bad guy (Rather than kind of pathetic).

He's got to go to the peaks to deal with his betrayal of his birth order. I'm pretty sure he was born as a warrior, but because of the death of his older brother he became a cook. Finally, we know that it was said anyone who got shards and came back would become a king. So what's going on in the peaks? The Unmade Moelach has moved to the horneater peaks: Do we know of any other characters going to the peaks, or things going on there that Brandon would want to show besides Rock 'Return of the King'ing? Joshar (Silent Gatherer) is said to be headed there for more info. So we've got two named characters in the area. What I want to see, is more Cultivation. Like, flow blown on screen dragon transformation would be epic. I'd just settle for some more clues about her motivations and what shes trying to do, maybe mixed with T-Odium showing up somehow to meddle with the (former?) Diagram people. I'd love to see Rock become a radiant of some kind - maybe a Stoneward for the pun. From the Stoneward article: Plus this would give us a fantastic Stoneward POV character. EDIT Adding stuff: I really REALLY hope this isn't foreshadowing, but I'm tempted to think that Kaladin will die in the next book, and maybe meet rock in the Cog Realm before he fades. Some folks said this might be a language issue, that Rock might have to live on the other side of the Perpendicularity but we will see, and I hope it is just that and not either of them dying.

I was super anti Moash redemption arc before RoW, and while I don't want him to get like, a Venli level backstory and redemption, I really feel like he could have a Darth Vader moment with Kaladin right as he dies, despite him having killed Teft. I know Brandon could do it. And it would really fit thematically with the series, that no one is so far gone they can't be forgiven. It could also go the other way and give us some vengeance against him too and I cheer for that, but I know if Moash somehow died saving Kaladin, I'd probably cry still.

Hey all, just finished my first WoK reread post RoW just trying to pick up on new details in a Dawnshard / RoW world. One thing that stood out for me was all the mentions of Voidbringers with fire! This was such good red herring foreshadowing of Humans being the Voidbringers, because it first pushed us to this pre thought of the Singers / Parsh being the voidbringers, but with Rabonial's Grandmother, we know that its about the humans arrival on Roshar after escaping from Ashyn. Ok so some quote! This feels like it's specifically about surgebinders - they take away stormlight (To power their surges). We see this with Shallan and Kaladin both just instinctively consuming stormlight before they consciously control it. This one is something Shallan said... maybe something I'm reading a bit into. What if what caused the fall of Ashyn was trying to somehow reach the Spiritual realm with physical body? Anyway I think that last bit is a bit of a crackpot theory. I'll keep on highlighting stuff I see in Words of Radiance (And Oathbringer) as I go through the reread, just wanted to put this together see if anyone was interested in discussion.

I think they could create and urge things into motion, but were powerless to directly interfere with anything especially if it was at odds with any of his metashards intents. Could not save a single life because Ruin was pushing against his need to preserve. Could not prune a civilization so that it could thrive (ALA Cultivation) because Preservation stopped him. This feels again, like it clues into the meta theme of the cosmere - reflecting on the question of what good is a God is that is omnipotent, omniscient, but will not interfere to save a child from coyotes. In Adonalsium's case, they aren't just the god of people, but the coyotes, and of nature as well. Has BS mentioned anything about ever showing this on screen? I hope we do see something, I agree it's not likely we will get POV from Ado.

From the Rhythm of War Release Event, the reading he did from the sequel to First of Dusk (Untitled).

I mean, we know T-Odium wants to get off world, but do we know he wants to destroy all other shards so he can be the last god standing? I think that is what Hoid wants to prevent on Roshar, and I assume his personal (Former?) friendship with Rayse is also involved. So the question is whether Taravangian's goal is becoming the last god, which I'm leaning towards not... at this point in time. Hoid's over-arching goal (or one of them) is "indicated as" the re-unification of Adonalsium, though I'm sure its much more involved and complicated than just that, plus I think he has other goals.

This is true if T-Odium wants the same thing Rayse wanted. This is a big if, because if I'm understanding correct, the shard Odium doesn't want anything other than the intent its limited to - in this case, God's Wrath / Passion. Taravangian could be convinced by the shards intent to go through with it, if it aligns with his goals, and at this point the only thing we have seen of his goals was that he was going to "save them all". I keep falling into the trap that T-Odium will be evil, but he might just be vindictive, like Old Testament God, turning people who fight against him into pillars of salt, that sort of thing. We also have no idea what Hoid's goal is - in the Rosharan system its to fight Odium because Odium is trying to become king of the hill, but what if T-Odium doesn't want that? The only reason I'm not behind this now is Spoilers Release Event Reading from sequel to First of Dusk:

Depends on his intent, and the way he goes through with his plan, especially if he is passion and not just wrath. Like, him doing something like following the Diagram feels cold and analytical, but the shear amount of work put into it, that was what illustrated the passion. I keep thinking back to that convo between Dalinar and King T about the murderer among the Shepherds. If T is overthinking it, I think it shows his personal passion, and can be folded into his shards alignment.

Saw this quote in another thread, and it made me think about how T-Odium said he was going to "Save them all"... could be another way that he will do this. Essentially, Odium and Dalinar's fight is over with the death of Rayse. Continuing on with the contest of champions seems like an interesting backdrop to trap the shard Odium in the Rosharan system, but what if with the new vessel, Taravangian isn't going to follow Rayse's plan of becoming the king of the hill?

Dune: I don't know what will happen in the future, but I think Moash/Vyre follows the Saul/Paul archetype story arc. I'm not sure if we've seen his lowest, most vile point, but I'm still on the future redemption arc team. I mean at this point I absolutely hate him, but if there is anything people like, its redemption. MIght end up more like Smeagol though.

Moash is going to be the Gollum/Smeagal of this series. Maybe he takes up Honor and Odium and becomes a different combination: Vengeance. Maybe he realizes Odium has betrayed him in the last moment, prevents Dalinar from grabbing Odium before the shard is splintered. I just hope its better than Spoiler WoT:

I thought there was a wob that said they got new bodies each time they got sent back... but I can't find it. This is the one I could find.

I was thinking the same thing when I read that passage. I can think of nothing more fitting of an exploration of the "Horrors and progress and Science" than the nuclear bomb. I am continually flip-flopping on the implications of real world nuclear power, so it is a great candidate for something I want to explore both sides of. Spoilers Silence Divine:

We have two characters that are continually brought up in the context of dueling - Taln and Adolin. Taln, being a herald and the last and maybe only that is still actively a part of the oathpact, has no reason to betray Dalinar, although he might be too lost to hold to it again, even if Dalinar somehow reforges the oathpact. I think we will see an arc where Dalinar convinces Taln to act as his champion, but Taln somehow becomes worse (Maybe following the death of another herald) and cannot function as the champion. I think this means that Adolin will try to step in. Another possibility I've been toying with is that T-Odium could argue for Adolin to represent him - the murder of Sadeas, the resentment for Dalinar, maybe Maya wakes up to him and tells him that what the Knights Radiant are doing is wrong. Adolin becomes Odiums Champion - maybe for a different type of contest, and Dalinar wins him back. Kind of like Star Wars on its head. Anyway thats all speculation, but what I'm curous is what the back 5 will focus on. We know that there will be a greater focus on the Heralds, and I think that means we will see the fall of Ashyn. I also think we will get a pivot for the villain, who Dalinar and potentially T-Odium will be working together to defeat: Ishar. Looking at the conflict, we see mirrors of events - the binding of the Thrill, the death of Jezrien. We see that Ba-Ado-Mishram having been locked away has fundamentally changed the previous singers. What have we not seen? Whatever the heck happened on Ashyn. We know that Ishar was there: What broke Ashyn? The powers of the Bondsmith: Bondsmith's unchained wrecked Ashyn. We get some clues from Rabonial as to what that entailed for the people there: So what happened on Ashyn? I think it has to do with the Unmade, who were made then unmade similar to what was happening to the Sibling in this book. Again, I think this was done by Ishar: I'm going to get into some Dawnshard spoilers here, so tagging up but I'll get out of there soon: Of all the Heralds, Ishar knew first hand the consequences of breaking oaths - for he was a connection sorcerer who had caused the floating cities of Ashyn to fall. He was the architect of the Oathpact - but also the architect of its deterioration: All of the other heralds we have seen basically state that Ishar is still sane, but we know that he is not from his own words We should not believe his words, even when he appears sane. I think Ishar was somehow connected to the bringing back of the voidspren too: We also know that he had been collecting spren, bringing them into the physical world for his sick experiments. So to wrap it up, I think Ishar is Mad. I think his madness was before his herald madness - that he's a mad scientist archetype, and that he will be the villain for the back 5. I also think there will still be a Taravang-ium redemption / de-escalation / needing to work with the Archetype of "God's Wrath", in the back 5 in order to protect the cosmere from whatever Ishar is doing.

As a remote sensing scientist I like to think about color and visualizations. In case you didn't know, all the stuff around us reflects different wavelengths of light differently based on the materials its made of. This extends outside the normal visible spectrum of light! For example, most plants are green because they reflect green light, but if the human eye could see into the near infrared, plants would be that color, because they reflect several times as much of that radiation as they do green. Something cool we can think about now that we know investiture that is associated with a specific shard has a specific wavelength / color is how to visualize things powered by that light. Mixing two colors/lights to get something new is actually super interesting, and using any three colors / unique investiture flavors, we could have a full color image! On Roshar, we'd have blue from Honor, Green from Cultivation, and purple/void? from Odium. If we wanted to visualize it for our eyes we could shift the colors to the three we use most, RGB -> Cultivation to red, Honor ->green, Odium -> blue, and make some cool false color composite images. In real life this lets us know something about the structure, because it tells us what is absorbed and what is reflected. Many bugs and flowers are reflective to UV radiation in unique and beautiful ways, for them to attract different mates. Same with platypuses (Not for attracting mates (That we know yet), just cool colors!). I think it was mentioned that voidlight and Odium have been part of the Rosharan system so long that it has become incorporated into the ecology there. Likely this is referring to Roshar becoming invested by Odium, maybe Odium has a perpendicularity now or something. Anyway I thought this was kind of neat.

So I wasn't really expecting this, but I did post this on my introduce yourself thread: So I guess I'd say I wasn't surprised at all when Taravangian killed a God and co-opted his religion in a move to ascend to God-Emperor status. Was it on the shard or reddit someone posted the tinfoil theory about Dalinar seizing Odium and Honor and becoming "Conquest"? That would have been sick. Also, still not out of the question if somehow Dalinar gets Honor's shard but becomes T-Odiums slave.