neshua_kadal

I might be misremembering or mixing up a few series, but aren't heralds sterile? Did Brandon confirm this?

As you're in RoW full spoilers section, I will assume you've read the whole book. We now know from Kalak's epigraphs that the Fused didn't intend to kill Jezrien but just to trap him. He died because Honor, the deity who made his connection to Roshar was dead and shattered, and upon losing the connection he held from his body too, Jezrien's soul (or spren or clone spren) faded away. This wouldn't have happened if say he was bound to cultivation or to Roshar itself. He wasn't killed like Moash killed Teft's spren or how Navani killed Raboniel. The dagger was also explained and it had nothing to do with Gavilar. The Fused realized its design this return only because they didn't know that sentient spren could be captured like this until Ba-Ado-Mishram was captured by the Radiants in False desolation, which happened after the last return.

All of that is true, and some of the things you guessed at are my guesses too, but I mentioned that he was evil to his family and my discussion isn't about Gavilar being a bad father/husband/brother, but why did he have anti-voidlight and maybe his goals weren't as simplistic as bringing fused back so heralds will come back and Vorinism will rule again. That's what I wanted to speculate here. We can create another post to vent about how bad Gavilar was with his family.

Adolin is too much of a good guy at this point. He literally said in RoW that the incident with his mother hasn't made him feel hatred or anything negative towards his father. Unless the world turn on itself and a parallel universe emerges where, I don't see Adolin becoming Odium's champion. It's clearly stated in the book that Thaidakar or can't travel from wherever he is, so no, he can't be a champion for anyone on Roshar. This feels like a big plot point in future cosmere books so I'm pretty sure the travelling thing won't be resolved in the next book in 10 days.

I'm sorry I might be forgetting but is the MB spoiler true? I remember it as being impossible.

Hmm yeah it could be that Navani and Dalinar have become beter versions of themselves. Regarding the SF's choice, I don't think that the spren only looked at the surface, or Syl would have gone for Amaram rather than Kaladin considering his talk of honor this and honor that. May be this is an extreme example, but we would have seen atleast some of neutral people becoming WRs. Gavilar having anti-voidlight doesn't prove one requires a singer. All the native rosharan creatures hear the tones of Roshar. And as we know, all singers except for listeners were blocked from the tones anyways, so I don't think he had a listener helper. It could have been a void-spren, as Ulim was able to attune the rhythms, but it seems unlikely that a void-spren of Odium would give such a weapon to Gavilar who was a potential bondsmith. What people except Navani have we seen him mistreat? And even there, Navani said the change was quite recent. Yeah I think you're judging too quickly. He could be a crappy person, but he could be under some sort of influence too. We can't regard Roshar where supernatural forces have such a big hand on people's minds as our world. Anyways, I gave other arguments regarding his crappiness to Navani above, go through them and maybe you'll understand why it might have been something else.

Oh that's true of course, I've seen this in my family as well, so no argument there. But a person who is an A to their family isn't necessarily also the super villain and commits every evil possible, that's what I was saying. Also as Navani mentioned, he changed and wasn't like that before. From my personal experience at least, I've never seen people go from good to evil like that. So there must be a reason he became that person. We know Jasnah would never have supported a person we saw through Navani's viewpoint ever, which meant Gavilar was a good guy at one point and then something happened. May be it was an unmade. Or maybe, he was trying to keep Navani at arm's length to keep her safe from getting entangled in all of it. It's just a theory, there's nothing to do until Wax and Wayne 4 comes out. All of what you said could also be true, but Axindweth was committed until the very end to bring about the Everstorm, I don't think she backed out and that's what made Gavilar think of her as a traitor. The anti voidlight in Gavilar's possession also makes it clear that he wanted to end Fused. If Ulim was in cahoots with him, he would have know about anti-voidlight, and the whole Raboniel/Navani arc wouldn't have happened. Also the stormfather argument, as I said, there were a number of leaders he could have chosen from. Why Gavilar and then Dalinar? And if it were king of Alethkar reason, coz Alethkar is Alethela, then Elhokar should have been chosen afterwards. If we believe that Gavilar was indeed evil, then choosing Elhokar over him should have been easier as Elhokar was a good person, if a little misguided and stupid. And Gavilar could just be mentioning the storm that Tanavast talks about in these visions. I don't think he knew about Everstorm in Shadesmar. We'll know more once the next book comes out.

Yes exactly, hence he and Sons of Honor didn't want Odium back in such power, or the Fused permanently on Roshar from Braize. Because it seems really stupid now that he wanted this, specially since Stormfather thought him worthy enough to show the visions. There were other leaders in the world, he could have shown them the visions, or even Dalinar. If it were the king of Alethela thing, then Elhokar should have received the visions after Gav's death.

Yeah so he refers to Mishram here, obviously. The new storm could be Everstorm, but if he wanted to bring it, why would he think Axindweth was a traitor to his cause when she's the person who first brought a voidspren from this storm. May be he meant something else when he said the word storm. Most probably it was from his visions. As we know, SF first showed these visions to Gavilar and in these visions, Tanavast does mention the new storm quite a lot. Edit: Also, yeah Gavilar is looking for power here, obviously. The purpose of my post was to discuss the Odium aspect of it all as we all thought previously, maybe Gavilar wasn't responsible for Everstorm and Odium returning in such power.

Pretty sure Kelek and others, and hence Gavilar, didn't know where Mishram was/is, or they could have done that. Mishram was imprisoned after heralds had given up on the Oathpact, honor was shattered or like Leras was at the end (probably) and Nale would have released it by now if he knew considering his siding with singers for the war. Anyways, it's just a theory. We probably won't know until book 5 (or even 10 if the prologue format continues to back 5) what his motivations were.

Yeah but as I said, it shifted a little this book. We know now that "Gods of Listeners" are fused, not Odium as he'll be referred to as "THE God". I think that that Gavilar just wanted to bring back Taln from Braize via worldhopping. That would have of course, released the Fused bringing back the said Parshendi gods. But Axindweth, the one who gave Venli Ulim and was ultimately responsible for the Everstorm, fled from Alethkar coz she was discovered as a traitor to the king. This implies their goals were different and also that Gavilar didn't kow about Ulim, as he would have asked Venli about the gemstone that was given to her. Ofcourse all of this might be cancelled out by the next book, but right now, it seems plausible as others mentioned that Gavilar might have been under influence of something else to have become such an arse, as Navani herself said he used to be a good person. It could also have been just to keep Navani out of whatever was going on with his life for her safety, for he berated Dalinar as well. But upon nearing death, he entrusted Dalinar to find the words. Seems pretty out of character for him to do that if he thought Dalinar to be a brute. He could have just asked Szeth to say that to Amaram, as he was present at the feast.

So, does anyone else thinks that Gavilar wasn't actually looking towards bringing something like Everstorm, but just looking to free all singers from their bondage? As we know Restares is Kelek who, from the epigraphs, knew about the effect of Ba-ado-Mishram's imprisonment on Roshar and perhaps guessed that Radiants gave up their powers for this reason (probably) as they felt guilty for causing such drastic change to Roshar and its native population. So he decided to restore the singers and the only way to do that was to bring back Taln from Braize, thereby freeing fused and suing for peace. He had anti-voidlight already prepared and ready to destroy fused as a backup incase they don't work with him. It's such a marvel that we still can't figure out what Gavilar wanted. While he was an asshole towards his family, may be here he wanted to do something good. What do you people think?

But how? He has no connection to Odium. The dreams he saw were because of Moash's mutual connection, no? Does that give him that power? Regardless, his super speed is something not yet seen in Roshar. Which surge can grant that? I don't think gravitation can make him fast, right?

So any theories on how Kal went super saiyan rage mode even with the radiant blockers in place and not saying the 4th ideal towards the end of his fight with Lezian? What power was he using to move with such speed?