Winter Wolf

No, he hides his additional breaths, only keeping one in him at a time. That way Vivenna doesn't sense additional breathes in him like she does with others who have horded multiple breathes. So he has his Returned breath, which is suppressed, and the standard one ready to be used at the end of the week, while the additional are stored in his clothes or wherever he puts them. Since he's only used to carrying the one, him getting a bunch at once does give him a sensory overload.

Yeah, Brandon said Denth's feelings about Vivenna were complicated and RAFOed the question. So that could mean anything. The romantic feelings angle crossed my mind while rereading just bc Denth puts more effort into teaching Vivenna magic and life lessons and comforting her more than he needed to. For instance, why in the world did he encourage her to learn Awakening (repeatedly) and give her a short lesson in it? He could have just never mentioned it and promised to make time for a lesson later if she asked, with "later" conveniently never coming. With his lessons, attempts to casually get close to her, and subtle corrupting, it was almost like he was preparing her to fit into the crew for the long run. If it was romantic feelings, it obviously wasn't good or enough to convince him not to prioritize his plans over her well-being. I like the idea that there's something more with the hereditary of the royal family beyond changing their hair color. As you say, if he knows more about her family's power and potential as one of the five scholars, he might have stowed Vivenna away and kept her alive to be used for a later purpose. But what that could be...? Otherwise, it just seems like it would have been easier for Denth to slit her throat and continue on without having to worry about her rather than taking the time to tie her up, gag her, and hide her.

I've been rereading Warbreaker and near the ending, after Vivenna freed Vasher and he went out the window, she's left alone with Denth and Tonk Fah, the latter of whom threatens to torture her with ropes. This surprised me since I didn't remember anything overtly horrible happening to her at this point in the novel and it turns out nothing did. Vasher just finds her later tied up with only the one wound we last saw her with. I'm not saying I wanted anything bad to happen to her, I just wonder if there's something I'm missing here. There's no longer any reason to keep her alive, so it seems like Denth would have wanted to get rid of a loose end by killing her and Tonk Fah is a sociopath who enjoys torture so it seems like Vasher would have had to free her from him, but he's not only not torturing her but has fled the scene. I'm probably overthinking it, but this just doesn't fit the characters IMO. It makes me wonder if I missed a scene or a clue or something. Like would Denth have refused to let her be harmed further bc he actually does like her and he and Tonk Fah had a falling out over it that we didn't get to see? Or could there have been some other reason why she had to be kept alive and as unharmed as possible? Or maybe it's just a plot armor situation lol

Vin decided that she didn't deserve to be with Elend and started to leave before remembering that her brother had died protecting her. Then a whispered voice in her mind said, "Go back." Then she listened to the voice and went back to Elend.

Since Vin was exactly where Ruin needed her to be 8n order to free him, I have always wondered why he told her to leave with Zane. There's a possibility for a very dark story there with him twisting both of them. But then I've also wondered why Ruin told her to be with Elend at the end of TFE. That relationship helped her grow in ways that were counter to what Ruin believed.

This is something I hadn't considered but would make a lot of sense since Susebron made it clear he wants to take power and be with Siri for the long haul. So it makes sense that he would - if she agreed - give her enough breath to live a long life with him.

Yeah, and in the book it's repeated that Returned can't have children aside from the God King. Then at the end, Treledees apparently lies about even him not being able to, despite pestering Siri about giving Susebron an heir for months. It's one of the secrets they're keeping from the Returned to maintain control of them. I hope the sequel gives more info on this. If it's ever written lol

So I was reading the annotations for Warbreaker and this one about the Returned being able to have children surprised me: Warbreaker Annotation Since the priests knew/know how Susebron can have children, I wonder if that means that they took those steps each time before he went to Siri, which would explain why Treledees was so insistent on them having a child and was relieved they were doing the deed. Any speculation on what needed to be done to make it possible? Maybe Siri is already pregnant.

When you come back after finishing the trilogy, you're going to be very happy that you read and found out. And specced.

Rashek is the empire and the empire couldn't be destroyed without destroying him. He's the one insisting on keeping the skaa down. Even if we take the agents of the empire into account, Kelsier distracts and loses the inquisitors twice before killing one while a barely trained Vin is rescued from another when Sazed hits one with a rock. They aren't as menacing as they could be even though we'retold that they are. For me, the whole mission felt like it was perfectly achievable and then it was achieved. That's just my perspective. I just felt that the stakes weren't depicted as high enough. But again JMO

Even if he's saving that for future books, the issue in TFE remains imo. Though I wasn't suggesting that Rashek should have necessarily displayed the full force of his power or even more power than he did during the climax. I just feel that he should have been shown to the readers as exceptionally dangerous long before the day he died. Mentions of it weren't enough. Exactly. Telling us what he survived wasn't enough, especially since the characters themselves never witnessed it.

Yes, Elend's character arc is beautifully done. My only complaints would be that we didn't get more of him in TFE and we never saw him overcome the trauma what his father forced him to do at 13 with the skaa sex worker. I'm guessing that was dealt with off page just as Vin's fears and trauma likely were.

I would love to see it too. A Rashek prequel novel would be amazing. It would also give further context to things Brandon has mentioned about him. Like the whole children issue. But I was specifying TFE because I never felt the main crew was in that much danger since they were treating the mission so matter of factly. If we had gotten a prologue chapter from the POV of someone Rashek was conquering during his first century, that would have created a level of dread for what the characters were getting themselves into.

This might be a separate topic, but this thread reminded me of how underwhelmed I felt about the Lord Ruler on my first read of TFE. It wasn't until going through it again after seeing the impact of his death, the way he was still worshipped, and how difficult it was to defeat Miles that it really came into perspective just how powerful Rashek was.The casual way Kel approached the plan for defeating him, the way a crew of criminals went along with it, and the fact that Elend and his friends believed they could apply pressure on him by presenting a united front made it seem like the Lord Ruler was a challenge, but manageable. It wasn't until the climax that he seemed godlike. Then he died, which lessened the impact. I really wish we had gotten a show of his power much sooner just to heighten the stakes. Like maybe instead of that plantation segment, we could have gotten one of those impressive healing moments he used to stay alive. Or maybe he could have been the one doing the killing during the fountain scene. Something to raise the stakes.

I'm partly in that boat. Only partly. Even if Wayne wasn't in Era 2, I would still prefer Era 1 because of Vin, Elend, and the crew. The depth of the characters in that trilogy was so consuming. But a Wayne-free Era 2 would make the choice between the two much harder.

Era 2 has it's charms, but most of what I love about it is how it builds off of the universe created in Era 1. If Wax's story was the beginning of the series, I don't know that I would have finished the first book. I enjoy Wax and Steris, but it's the Era 1 echoes that bring this series home for me. The Vin trilogy is one of my favorite series' of all time. All of the characters are so beautifully written and developed, Vin and Elend,in particular. My only complaint is that I wish it had been longer and we had gotten more stories with those characters.

Kelsier being good or bad is something Brandon definitely plays with. I believe, in some of those chapter commentaries for the original trilogy he noted that Kelsier might be considered a villain or close to one in another setting. This idea is further hammered home in the second era when a couple of those villains point out that they have commonalities with the heroes of the first era, while Wax would be trying to put those heroes away. What Kelsier did with Demoux and Bilg was pure villainy imo. But put beside all the good he tries to do, that moment is definitely outweighed by much better sides of him.

The weird thing is that I always picture him as a brunette even though I "know" he's blonde.

Ok if Wayne was initially the protagonist before Wax was created, that actually makes sense then. Otherwise, I could see it being referred to as the Wax books vs the Vin books for the first era.

So I noticed that Brandon and many fans refer to the second Mistborn Era as the Wax and Wayne books. Is this just because of the play on words? I ask because when I started the books, I expected them to be the co-leads. But Wax seems to be the main protagonist and Marasi seems to have equal to greater narrative importance as Wayne.

Oh yeah I'm not saying it contradicts her character. What I didn't like was that BS treated her "realization" in BOM as if it was a change or a grand conclusion she had only just now reached when it was something she entered the trilogy already knowing about herself. Since she's given the narrative importance of a secondary lead alongside Wayne, it seems like she would have had more character growth over the three books. But yeah in The Lost Metal, hopefully she'll grow into her own beyond not being Vin. She has really unique abilities and character traits that could be explored instead.

I had mixed feelings on Era 2, though my thoughts were very different. Right away with AOL I liked Wax, Steris, Marasi, and the way the planet had developed in general after Era 1. My only issue was Wayne. He felt like the Jar Jar Binks of the series, but worse since he was harassing Renette despite her repeated overt rejections. With the next book, I liked the whole reveal with Bleeder and the continued developments with Wax and Steris. But Wayne continued to be a problem (good effort on the backstory though) and Marasi started to decline for me. It didn't make sense that she dropped her law career for the constables. It was a good choice to differentiate her from Vin early on in the first book, but having her join the constables felt like a choice that contradicted that for the sake of keeping her in the story. But Marasi really became a mess for me in Bands of Mourning where her character "arc" climaxed in the reveal that she wasn't interested in being like Vin ... a conclusion she shared with Wax and the readers early in AOL. I feel like BS didn't know how to develop her from the place she started at. But Wax and Steris continued to be amazing and the reveal of the Sovereign and people with different technology left me wanting more of this Era. So yeah, this was a mixed bag for me.

I agree. The actress who plays Vin should at least look like a teen, at least for the first book's adaptation. As for a female Ham, maybe Gwendoline Christie. For the Lord Ruler/Rashek, he has to be exceptionally attractive, so maybe Henry Cavill.

I recently finished reading the first trilogy and all throughout I couldn't help but imagine Maisie Williams as Vin and Timothée Chalamet as Elend. Since Vin is only 16 in the first book and makes it into her early twenties by the third, Maisie would be perfect since she can play younger than she is and would be the exact age by the end.