LewsTherinTelescope

I've moved this thread to the Cosmere forum as it contains spoilers for a lot more than just Stormlight Archive.

I don't understand the question, can you try to rephrase it?

Definitely some people did yeah. I don't know if it was everyone or not, the legend's got some holes (for example it seems like all of the Five were involved with fainlife rather than just Xeth, and it doesn't really explain how dragons relate to all this), but there's also clearly some truth since Drephrast references Aronack destroying the world once and Frost references humans being forbidden magic nowadays. I took that as dragons, just because that's the group that's neither humans nor Sho Del and Xisis has some wild powers, but true Frost was probably around back then.

I'm talking about the part where she says she would have sensed it. I don't think so. I mean, yes their powers are probably "flavored" by them, Hoid can (mostly) only grow while Jerick can (mostly) only destroy yeah, but Frost says seeing axi is the normal mode of function: Curious whether all usage was aligned with one Dawnshard or another or if there's a "neutral" version out there. Aronack may imply the gods can grant it: But I don't know if he knows Jerick has microkinesis or just knows he has a strong Cognitive/Spiritual side generally, still need to read through properly. The ancient tree thing does seem likely to me. Wonder if there's a whole set of "firsts"—First Gem, First Tree, etc. Probably not Frost, he seems just as surprised about her powers as he is about Topaz and Jerick, but could be one of the Five yeah.

Hm, weird, she also thinks this after that (underline mine): Minor continuity error from the lack of beta reading, I guess? If it's not a Dawnshard then I wonder why the powers are so similar and where they come from. Wish we could ask Brandon but I doubt he remembers Yeah, at least to me "nuclear bonds" implies "strong force", not "electromagnetism". But electromagnetism for the lightning is right.

Would her father have reacted so dramatically if that were all?

To the person who reported this for Sunlit Man spoilers: appreciate the incredibly fast reaction, but OP actually did post there and I moved the thread literally like two minutes ago because we're in the middle of deleting that forum That's some real perfect timing lol.

I've merged in the other thread that was under the General Brandon Discussion forum, as we would prefer to avoid double-posting like that and this thread seemed like the more fitting place to centralize discussion.

I don't think Connection is enough on its own, for a similar reason as to why Allik has an accent: If a Terrisman moves to Hallandren and taps blank Connection their soul will think they grew up there, but it will still know they're ethnically Terris. IMO Treamayne is probably right that Identity is more relevant here.

Jerick describes it in terms of a force: And Frost describes it in terms of nuclear bonds in the same conversation you cite: It might take Jerick longer to first do than manipulating axi directly did, but compared to Topaz's poor light scattering it's pretty dramatic and seems to come relatively intuitively. Yeah agreed. I wonder if we can put together a color wheel of sorts, where each Dawnshard has a core zone of power but can dip into things on either side where the lines between different concepts are fuzzy Ryalla can primarily manipulate light and sound waves, but might be able to learn more. After all, everything is (sorta) a wave really. Topaz can primarily rearrange axi to match their Spiritual shadow, but he can also mess with photons a little bit like Ryalla (the rainbow), and can speed up/slow down axi a little bit like Jerick (lighting the candles). Jerick can primarily move axi apart, but he can also see the sound wave which touches on Ryalla's powers, and might be able to learn to reconnect axi a little bit like Topaz. After all, all interactions do involve axial forces. While I did three because that's how many characters we know, I wouldn't be too surprised if there were five (I don't think the gods are Dawnshards but they could align with them or come from them). Perhaps there would've been one centered around manipulating the spiritweb for physical effect as suggested here, and then another based around.... something else axial idk? Ooh interesting, I like that.

Fair point. Still, Jerick seems able to manipulate forces quite well, so I don't think it's a thing that's primarily her domain only. In the modern cosmere Illumination is considered "the Surge of Light, Sound, and Various Waveforms", maybe Ryalla's powers are based around an early form of that distinction too? (Frost makes a reference to "nuclear bonds" that seems to suggest Brandon thought electromagnetism was responsible for holding subatomic particles together at the time he wrote Dragonsteel, so we should keep in mind that there might also be somewhat questionable physics logic at play lol.) I was going off this line in Chapter 20: But if there's later context that contradicts this then nvm. That fits what he says in tWoK as well, that it "became completely worthless for my wearing it". That is incredibly ironic given the nature of Topaz's powers. I think him watching over her is more personal, since he doesn't offer to go keep an eye on Jerick until Ryalla says she's going to, despite knowing by then that Jerick has "the power of destruction". He also says in the quote above that Ryalla should not be able to do magic, which is weird if he knows she has a connection to something like a Dawnshard.

At the time Prime was written, the Lords like Aronack were going to be the ones killing Adonalsium, the idea of the Vessels being former mortals came later. My guess right now is it could have to do with what Aronack talks to Doruse about: Perhaps there was something bad coming that Adonalsium was going to allow, and his kids would turn against him over his inaction? Aronack and perhaps Selonis probably take advantage of the situation for power and worship, Ethain seems like he'd want to defend the Sho Del whom he views as his children, Doruse may want to save people after sitting and watching for so long, and who knows about Rafete.

Supposedly there are only two, but then in the introduction Brandon instead says one so he might just be forgetting the number lol. Frost does lump her abilities in with those of Topaz and Jerick (at least from what I've read, haven't had time to go through it fully yet but did look at the search results for a bunch of terms like "microkinesis"), even though they work differently, so her also being one would make sense. I don't think there's a distinction like that, Jerick is able to manipulate the electromagnetic force just as easily as axi when he makes the lightning bolt. Interestingly Ryalla is able to use "sonic microkinesis" too, so her ability isn't just photons, but then all the microkinetic abilities seem kind of messy in what they encompass compared to Brandon's later more structured systems. Something to do with perceiving more generally, maybe? How would that work with the idea that the cast "unwittingly become" Dawnshards, especially since Hoid's already got his immortality and inability to harm? It seems more likely to me that the topaz contains one (we know the title "bearer of the first gem" is related) and the "source of power" Doruse was watching over that Jerick somehow got his power from is another, personally.

He's not onscreen, to be clear, but characters mention him a few times and he seems to be doing the same "speeding up the development of one particular nation of which I am head" shtick. He comes up in Chapters 2 and 6, it looks like.

He is in there, king of Rens/Renz.