Preventer Wind

I'm really confused by what you're trying to get at here. I don't really follow your point. I'm sorry that I'm going to be nit-picky, but it looks like a maze of threads that need to be untangled. According to the Coppermind, the exact date of the Stormfather's existence is unknown. He may have existed as long as the highstorms have. He may have only been created by Honor. At the same time, his power and memory in his current form have come from being strengthened by a dying Honor, and his ability to understand humans has greatly improved only during his time bonded to Dalinar. I don't think we can say that the Stormfather would be instrumental in any pre-Honor and Cultivation on Roshar. The Nightwatcher is explicitly referred to as Cultivation's child. The Coppermind says that she may have been changed from another spren by Cultivation, but it seems that change was a big one. I'm not sure where you're going with the use of gems to bind Shardblades as any kind of analog to a theoretical older magic system. The gems are only post Recreance, and I don't see any connection to something we know of before Honor and Cultivation. I'm probably missing your point here. Shardplate, at least how we see it on modern Roshar (Dead Shardplate) isn't truly seamless. The pieces fit together exceedingly well, but there is definitely mail or other armor between certain places in the armor. The armored carapace of the Parshendi doesn't seem to appear truly seamless either; it is strengthened bone that is forming a protective layering. It also seems to be little more effective than regular armor for human troops. And your last paragraph isn't much clearer, at least as it goes to Shardplate. It looks like your idea is that whatever spren that the Dawnsingers brought into their gemhearts for Warform is somehow changed overtime into a similar but different spren that forms Radiant Shardplate, but still exists to power Warform? I would argue that whatever Living Shardplate was made of, I do not think it can be any evolution of Dawnsinger examples. Plate and armor are too much of a human concept to be adapted from the Singers, and we know that the humans had a fair basis of knowledge before they came to Roshar. After all, their relatives who didn't escape were able to create floating cities fast enough to survive on Ashyn. They also have some evidence of metallurgy, as the Coppermind mentions that some have flintlock pistols. I find the idea of Living Shardplate forming from the Radiant's cognitive image of armor to make more sense than there being some adapted earlier spren. Then again, I'm still not a fan of the 'lesser spren make Shardplate' theory.

I'm a fan of the theory that the Shin have them. We know they have the Honorblades, revere them, but also train at least some people in their use (And apparently have a system where they occasionally send someone out in the world with them as Truthless, and recover them afterwards.) What is a place most people from Roshar don't go? Shinovar, where there are already people taking care of the Honorblades. Also, it might be a reason for those Shin invasions of Roshar, claiming and hiding the Shardblades. Since we know the Shin look down on warriors because they cause destruction, maybe they pushed for warriors to walk on unholy ground in order to retrieve the Shardblades, removing their destructive force from the world. It may also play into why those invasions were so effective, although I would think the idea of Shin using Shardblades would probably have made it to modern day history.

I’ve heard of spiking the punch, but spiking the punch seems a little ridiculous.

So I'm going to say hello after I made my first post elsewhere because apparently that topic was more important than joining in. I've been aware of the 17th shard for a long time, but I haven't really dove into the forums or groups because I wasn't ready for the in-depth thought and theory that came behind some of these things, and I found the idea a little intimidating. I probably overthought it in my mind, which is something I'm unfortunately too good at doing. So now, hm, where am I? I'm caught up on main Stormlight books and Edgedancer. I'm partway through era 2 Mistborn. I've read Arcanum unbounded and Elantris, as well as the Emperor's soul. I also (metaphorically) ran into Brandon because of his work finishing the Wheel of Time. I physically ran into him at JordanCon a few years back, and asked him a question in the hall that I can't really add as a Word of Brandon because I'm afraid it would be too paraphrased at this point to do much good. Outside of Sanderson I know my Tolkien, love the Discworld, and have read most of the Star Wars EU (Now Legends) printed before Lucasfilm was bought by the House of Mouse. My wife lets me organize the room with the three bookshelves that we call the library (though I plan on expanding it.) I guess that does it for me. I look forward to diving into the forums more, and hopefully having ideas worth posting and sharing with you all.

Corrected for Fourth instead of Fifth Ideal, and clarified that what I referred to as modern plate was dead Shardplate. I laid in bed last night thinking about the 'when did it get heavier' question. I suppose the question comes from when we could measure the weight of plate at all. I imagine the old Radiants didn't keep it on armor stands in their rooms if they could summon/unsummon it. How would we know what it weighed if they never took it off? I suppose they could have stood on a scale when in armor, or used themselves in armor as counterbalances for the elevator... I would have to think, for my theory to work, that the armor by a Radiant who had sworn their oaths would be nearly weightless, if it was formed of a spiritual energy and stormlight. It would only take on weight when abandoned. At the same time, we don't have a good idea of why Shardplate would weigh something close to 30 times what our world's medieval plate did. (Given an average for medieval plate being between 35 and 55 pounds, so 42-27.5 times) If I work on the idea that stormlight is spiritually repairing the broken part of your spiritual web when the plate is dead, living plate could be feeding off stormlight from the Radiant and being repaired at a greater efficiency as part of the bond with your spren. Maybe. Spiritual mumbo jumbo. But is a flaw in the theory.

In listening to the Shardplatecast episode of Shardcast, I came up with what seems like a new (or at least different) theory on the formation of Shardplate. I apologize for the superlong post. I am also not deeply versed in Realmatic theory, or the wide variety of Words of Brandon or other forum posts. I've read what I can. First I want to list out the things we know without argument about Shardplate. I'm taking from the books, the Coppermind, and Words of Brandon It can withstand a lot of damage by conventional weapons/impacts/pressure, but will eventually shatter. It can stop a Shardblade, though repeated blows will cause it to shatter. (Ergo is weaker than a Shardblade) It is originally from the Knights Radiant, and was abandoned during the Recreance. Radiants 'got' their plate by swearing the Fourth Ideal. The original Knights could summon and release the plate, or portions of the plate, at will, similar to Shardblades. Modern (dead) plate cannot be summoned or released. Modern (dead) Shardplate seems to be powered by Stormlight in the form of gems, When it runs out the plate stops functioning. Flawed gems cause the plate to shatter faster. It can be regrown by feeding the damaged pieces Stormlight. This can replace whole sections. Separated sections will 'die' as they main plate is regrown. It automatically fits itself to the wearer. It provides increased strength, dexterity and speed to the wearer, though not endurance. It is very heavy. (potentially around 1400 pounds) Higher spren don't scream/react to plate like they do when their Radiant touches a dead blade Plate is keyed to Radiant's Identity. Plate interferes with another Radiant's abilities (specifically lashing in Dalinar's visions) Theory point (I don't have a justification on this one). Dead Plate doesn't bond like dead Shardblades. Conforming to the wearer is not the same as keying to the summoner allowing it to be controlled, called, dismissed, etc. the way a blade is. Although Brandon did say it was a 'lesser bond', I argue that we aren't seeing the same strength as the blade/bearer bond. From this point, I want to lay out my theory, and explain how it touches to all the known parts above. We know that Shardblades and Plate are gained by Knights Radiant by strengthening/deepening the Nahel bond. We can see that with each 'level' the Radiant can use stormlight more effective/efficiently. From WoB we know that as the bond deepens the spren and the Radiant are melding into one individual. It follows that the bond between Radiant and spren is much stronger when the plate is formed than it was when the blade is formed. Their identity is more closely bonded. Yet the plate is weaker than the blade. My theory is that Shardplate is the manifested soul of the Radiant via their connection with their spren. They have pulled part of their spirit web into the physical realm and woven it with Stormlight to create armor. This allows for the plate to be keyed in identity to the Radiant. It follows from the idea that the spren and Radiant must be more closely bound (and that the bond weakening could take away the ability "Talk to your spren about it" in Dalinar's vision). Why did the plate stick around after they broke their oaths? It's similar to the way that hemalurgy can steal powers form an allomancer. Since the armor was part of their spirit web, when they abandoned their oaths it literally ripped a part of their identity/soul away from them. That's the reason why the Radiants in Dalinar's vision don't respond to him. "The former Shardbearer pulled his arm free and continued to walk away" and later "They walked with eyes forward, not speaking to one another, steps slow but resolute." Breaking their oaths has hurt them deeply, and has damaged them even as it killed their spren (Who are only as dead as their oaths). While the blades are the manifestations of the spren, the plate dies at the same time, and fades when the oaths are broken. I remember hearing on Shardcast that light is usually tied to the spiritual realm, so for the plate and the blades to lose their living light is to say that they have been severed from their connection to the spiritual realm. Why is the plate so heavy? Because it bears the weight of betrayal and broken oaths (metaphor made real by perception). Why is it weaker? because men's souls are weaker than ideals. Why did it stay behind after it was abandoned? As Mark Anthony remarked, the evil that men do lives on after their deaths, the good is often interred with their bones. We know that the Shardblades are spren that have manifested themselves physically in the physical realm. They must leave some aspect behind in the Cognitive Realm (deadeye spren are still present in the Cognitive Realm when their Blades are summoned, evidenced by the spren who says that the deadeyes are always wandering around, seeking their bodies). The dead spren are reminiscent of people who are killed with blades, who are referred to having their souls killed. Why would their be so much build up to the spren being blades, but not being armor? Where would be the deadeye armor? (for lack of a better term). Because stormlight comes from a connection to the investiture in the Spiritual realm, the stormlight allows for a bit of broken soul, the part of the spirit web that is the armor, to be strengthened, although it can never be completely made whole, restoring the Radiant's full being together. Stormlight does allow (similar to the heartbeats of a bearer bringing life to a deadeye to manifest) energy for the plate to remain strong. Spren wouldn't scream at the armor because it is more closely aligned with the radiant than with the dead spren. The psychic shock isn't as great. Well, that's the larger gist of it. I've been reading and typing on this for an hour and a half, so I may come back and flesh it out some more later, but at least it's a different take from the 'lesser spren' theory. It's probably unlikely, but it's a new idea.