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Long try

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  1. 1. The only reason to let Dalinar live is for the warrior to serve Odium. Everything Dalinar's done recently is to oppose the god's plan. With the ascension taking place in that very moment, there's no hope of using him anymore, so why not kill while you're at it? 3. That can be a huge change in POV. But how do you explain that all the Fused and Amaram and many others see the god, too? Yep, a coward Odium can explain a few things. So... killing Dalinar won't remove Honor's remnant, but turning him into O team can? Er.. I don't know what a kandra is, but I kind of get your point. Well, you surely agree that all of Shallan's missions to date are short. That can be the case here. The impostor can use Jasnah's face to get close to Navani, for example, kill her and escape, all within 2 hours. If we're not the conspirators, we can't guess. What we can do is only to apply caution & protection. Well, in that view then surely anyone could be scared. But isn't Odium still being imprisoned in 1 way or another? Some guy said just above that Dalinar is a demigod at that moment, so still way below Honor and without any experience of this power. Therefore the worst possibility is that you stay incarcerated, which is actually not worse at all; while the best is that you can take the chance and end the threat when it's still budding. BUT... anyway, "Idiot is a coward" can be used to explain just any case, so...
  2. Thank you guys. To quote from just 1: Yeah... I was focused on her initial reaction to Adolin's word. If I were in her position, I would try to immediately pry more info on how Adolin got to know it, and not eagerly run forward to the highly probably impostor. Instead I'd follow behind the prince, thinking of all the ways Jasnah can possibly survive and all the tests I can make when I see her while walking slowly to buy time. Of course, I'll keep my distance in the meeting, too. 2 problems. 1, it's true that Dalinar powers up. But this gain is about 9000 times, which is unimaginable even in a Dragon ballZ world. If I not wrong, then this kind of power up is just like in Kal or Szeth's order, where after you say some words you unlock some gradual thing. The bridgeboi & assassINwhite didn't expand their strength like crazy after those words, but only a marginal bit. 2, if the damage to Dalinar can be explained by viewing Odium's inner self (emotions?) for 1 second then during his ascension the god just have to let the highking view him for 2 second more. Guaranteed death. Or let's do it in 9 second for some dramatic overkill. By the time he finishes shouting Oh no! and treading back step by step, easily 14 seconds would have passed. Idiot Odium.
  3. It's been quite a long time since my last post. During the period, I've finished OB, finally. As some guy here predicted, the book did answer some questions, and I'm noting that the number of queries I'm going to make decrease significantly when compared to the last thread. Here they are: - Let's remember the moment when Shallan hears about the return of Jasnah. At that point, Dalinar has refounded the Radiants, and new people with powers are popping up left & right. So when Adolin says You know what, she's back!, Shallan happily welcomes her princess. Huh? Really? How about giving that news a bit of doubt? She was the only 1 who witnessed Jasnah's death with her own eyes (and hands). She knows that she belongs to a group of Radiants who can create images. She's seen persons with the same power (both Kaladin and Szeth can fly). Of all people, she is the 1 who has used fake personalities to do various missions. I couldn't believe how she reacts when I read that part. - Speaking of her inconsistencies, Shallan in this book makes some stunning turn from the preceding ones. Where is her curiosity? 1 of the scenes I remember the most was when she jumped off the ship to be able to watch a santhid. Now she barely questions anything. OK I do know that in OB she's torn between 3+ personalities. But even when the true Shallan surfaces, I can hardly see traces of her inquisitive mind. - In a chapter, Dalinar is touched a bit by Odium, and he crumples down immediately. He knows that the god has only used like 0.1% of his 'power'. And Odium himself says he's not used with interacting with humans again, i.e. he has tried his best to hold back. He doesn't have to do anything and the Stormfather is already whimpering in some corner of the world. Now fast forward to the final battle, and during the confrontation, when Dalinar blabbers some words, Odium suddenly loses, saying Oh no! and retreating with a godly tail between his legs like a beaten dog? WTF? Well that's it for the questions. Now here are some of my personal thoughts on the book itself. I was surprised. A few times, a pleasant 1, such as when Dalinar faces resistance from other monarchs - unexpected for me but totally makes sense and great in retrospect. Others, not so much. The story feels incoherent and the climaxes lacking. It feels like somehow BS has changed from the man who wrote tWoK & WoR to this new man who wrote OB. And not for the better. Something has transmuted in him, not really in style, but maybe like in essence. Yes, OB is still 1 of the best novels out there, but when compared with its 2 predecessors, the book wanes. I like the concept "grip" to describe how great a story is. And man, I was hooked by the 1st 2 books. I set a time before bed to read. And I can remember vividly how fascinating it was when I read to the part where Kaladin jumped down into the arena to help Adolin fight, so gripping that I ignored the phone reminder alarm and read into the night to at least finish the whole scene. And you know what? I can't remember any moment like that with OB. In fact, what's alarming is that I found myself drifting into sleep a few times when having the book at hands. What a sad revelation. I don't really know where to point the finger to when trying to explain how or why OB slipped. It's quite hard TBH. So, what do you think of the book? Is it the best in the series? Better than 1 but worse than 1? Or definitely the worst of tSA until now? If so, what do you think is wrong with this last installment?
  4. You're right. Kal was there when Dalinar chose to face the assassin for the 1st time. Yes! Some minor yet critical points were missed by my recollection when compared to yours. Dalinar was indeed distracted (again, what a coincidence ). Adolin, as @Karger pointed out, had reflexes of a soldier and moved 1st, justification later. I concede.
  5. Oh it's OB again, lol. OK then, I only have this kind of argument: A. Being Sanderson who created the series, or being us who read 2 or 3 tSA books, we're having the privilege of possessing omniscience. We know every PoV and every scene, every relation. It's easy for us to deduce Dal-El relationship with all the info, but not so for Kaladin. Remember, he joined the bodyguards lately and only witnessed some interactions between the pair during a few meetings, banquets and trivial gatherings. Aside from that, Elhokar stayed in his own palace while Dalinar had all the Sadeas, politics, countdown and Navani courting to worry about. So if we stood in Kal's shoes, we'd find big trouble coming to such conclusion. Maybe Brandon made a mistake & didn't count for this PoV. Sometimes being omnipotent can have a drawback. B. IIRC the sequence happened like this: Kal suddenly remembered who the engineer was. He began running toward the bridge. Adolin saw him. He turned 180 degrees & ran too. Kaladin shouted about stopping the assassin. The engineer pushed the button. Adolin jumped. The bridge fell. Kal reached near Shallan when everyone lost footing. Since I can scarcely remember the details of the scene and/or Brandon didn't describe the surroundings, all of the below are speculations. - 1st, the distances of everything are short, because this is a chasm bridge, after all. So as Kaladin shouted, Dalinar should have heard as well. - 2nd, the lines connecting Dalinar with Adolin/Shallan, and A/S with Kaladin must be, or nearly aligned. Because Kal ran toward Dalinar and ended up with Shallan. That means Adolin's body was heading toward Kaladin on the other side of the chasm, and his face was maybe turned to Shallan. OK, now he saw from the corner of his eyes that the captain was running toward him, and immediately turn around as if running away from a chaser. Hmm... if I were Adolin, I'd be like a deer in headlight. Being in female courting mode, my brain would need a moment to assess what that sudden hostile burst of action toward me means. Then, after making sure it is not directed at me, I'd need some other time to bring everything together before deciding on a course of reaction. Or, maybe that Adolin-kun is much smarter than me, which is a sad revelation...
  6. Well, thank you guys (and gals)! After @Pathfinder's 3-fold urge to read OB, I feel the need to get up-to-date with at least tSA, not to mention other series, before asking more questions. Because about half of what I asked here can be explained by reading more books. So let's put those 9 kind-of-objective questions aside, and I'm going to ask you for your opinion. This 1 is subjective. 10. Do you feel at some times the plot is forced? Examples: A. When Kaladin used "Elhokar is Dalinar's Tien" for his reasoning. There's not much in common between his love for brother and Dal-El relation. His was mutual, unconditional, and beneficial in that he protected Tien and the brother cheered him up. I doubt Elhokar loved his uncle; and Dalinar was only fond of him because the king reminded him of truly loved bro; and the relationship is a bit oppressive, so can't be really productive. B. When Adolin saw Kal running to the bridge from the corner of his eyes and right away ran up to his father. Really, I can't point my finger to an exact spot, but the whole scene does not make sense. A very distinct feeling that it's forced so that Kaladin ended up with Shallan down there.
  7. No I didn't know it beforehand, being a newbie and all. Looks like my abbreviation guessing skill has leveled up. Hmm, this argument is so sound. Yes, Dalinar had been betrayed once and had sworn that he wouldn't ever let it happen again. Just because of that reason, he'd out Amaram either way. Well, I don't doubt for a second that Brandon spent mucho time into worldbuilding. Because it's so spectacular! Your side explanation about chasmfiends also proves it. Comparing with, say, Harry Potter's world, where everything's so easily solved by spells without any rules at all, tSA shines. It's just that... because tWoK & WoR are like the no.1 books for me, I tend to compare them with no.0 - perfection. It's a bit unfair, yes, but what can I do? Maybe my fascination with them led me to demand that every tiny thing makes sense in an absolute term. Personally, I'd have profound pleasure if my literary works were to be compared with perfection. Regarding your mentioned mass conservative, 1 of the times when soulcasting were described in details are during Jasnah's child rescue. She turned a huge boulder into smoke. That is a certain situation when mass is not conserved, right? Because otherwise, the whole palace would not be enough to contain the volume of smoke that was created. It might even spill out into the city & onto the sky. Well yes, I used the word deus-ex to refer to a device, a machine that solves the problem easily. tWoK or WoR did mention adverse effects on the soulcaster squad, but it's literally the same as no bad effect at all. Why? Because we don't relate to them. Before coming to this great forum, my only point of reference regarding tSA was goodreads. In the reviews, I've read countless loves for Kaladin, Shallan, Adolin, Dalinar, Szeth, younameit... but no one expresses any affection toward those mentioned soulcasters. It's human psychology. We don't know their names, we don't know their faces, with us they're just figures. As someone (Stalin?) said, "when there's 1 death it's tragedy, when there's a million deaths it's statistics". As we don't care at all about these soulcasters' fate, they're literally expendable. So in a novel, if we can achieve incredible result at, well, negligible cost then it's effectively deus-ex. I did know about Chekhov's gun, and your mention excites me. What did Brandon leave in the 2 books that will fire in the coming ones? Based on the fact that you were talking about soulcasting, I guess that Shallan will face something bad in the future. Hm, I do recall but overlooked this part. Is the soulcasted wood lighter than every existing kinds or is it just as light as the lightest natural wood? Eshonai overpowered Adolin during the fight. He only won because he outsmarted her. The Parshendi armor was barely damaged, so it was far from a dead Plate. Moreover, we need to keep in mind that inside it is a Stormform, the most powerful ever. Yet he still expected her to be dead, meaning the fall was beyond lethal. Wow that's superb! As an astronomy lover (but still newbie), my respect for him jumped. Well, if 9 people agree on X and 1 disagrees, that doesn't mean X is objectively true Still, I admit that we live in a world where the subjectively majority is correct, usually just by brute strength. Moreover, it's hard to find out what really is objectively true in a literary work by an author's imagination. To do that we Sandersonites will need to agree on some basic premises, such as using logic is the right way, or accept parallel correlations between the Cosmere and our universe's laws, or between Roshar's people and Earth's society. I don't want to pick up an argument because the statement was made by "those people", but aren't there times like when Adolin used 'dirty strikes' to win a duel in seconds, or when he considered killing Sadeas right there when they watched the Highstorm with Shallan? They described Adolin's gradual change from a showboy to a more calculating man, ready to use not-so-honor force when necessary. It's ok to miss a cue, but for a ton of people to miss several, I guess they must have overlooked things. My presumption might be wrong, but maybe you didn't follow the thread from the beginning? There & then I listed many points (number 8 is not about inconsistency, it's a question). To echo @Steel Inquisitive, I find my details really clear. In fact, they're almost at my verbal capacity, so can't really be clearer. I guess I can only help by defining the way I did it. I used logic as the main tool. You can see that in every argument, I pointed out that Brandon wrote something A, then he wrote something B, and A & B contradict, so explanation please? The community has done an excellent job at enlightening me at several points (BTW, thank you my fellow Sandersonites! <3), but for a few I still keep my view. The paragraphs you quoted are just expansions of those points. As you can see, they haven't even been able to answer some of my arguments (bridges can't deal with significantly different chasm side heights, or the procrastination psychology), so I guess there are some inconsistency problems still wandering around.
  8. Woah, yes I knew that Dalinar prepared all those but for him to grab the opportunity when it came like that... he's mastering the art of politics! Respect. Though not specifically mentioned in the 1st 2 books, I should have thought of this probability. Shallan could blow out images and Kal managed to 'heave' his hand back to life... are indications of Light manipulation like that. Brandon did a good job! Yeah, plus the fact that he had been constantly haunted by all the screams until that, we can see that Szeth was near the limit of sanity. Poor guy. When you're traumatized, your actions doesn't make much sense. I'm reading 'The body keeps the scores' and am a bit shocked what PTSD can do. I refuse to look at these tempting evils tSA is the best collection of books in my life till now and I may regret it by spoiling what the coming books can bring. So let's say I wholeheartedly agree with your assertion, at least until I finish ED & OB, hehe Ah, I should reread the book sometime. Missed this important part. Well I doubt it. If Kal were not there then things would be normal and Dalinar would wait until after the march to deal with Amaram. After all, Amaram's a force himself not counting his army. In a march into the unknown, Dalinar surely would figure he needed every ounce of help. And being double-faced as Amaram was, he wouldn't just betray Kholin in the middle of the battle. So I imagine that all the preparation accounts for like 80% of his decision, but Kaladin's appearance fills in the remaining 20%, and thus he made it on the spot like that. By doing so he's cutting his own resources, but that was the "right thing to do" - using the phrase of the honor guy, Kaladin I don't remember any of this, but smart guy indeed. He reminds me of Bourne in Identity. That's very thoughtful of you, @Karger! [online hug] Er... what is a WoB? Words of Brandon? Anyway, his answer is interesting. If 'the process of breaking the bond' was started by Kal making a controversial statement and his wrongdoing, then I wonder when the bond was initiated and what caused it? IIRC, when he was young he's already felt 'a rush' when picking up a stick to fight farmers. Well, that's a very convincing explanation from the team. Still. There's like no explanation at all from the 1st 2 books about the bridges, and I feel like they came up with this new info when pressed by fans. It's like fans began asking a lot about the bridges in the mail, and Brandon said to his team: "We need to address this sht". As they brainstormed, Peter suddenly stood up: "Hey, they asked how heavy it was, right? Now look, we haven't mentioned about how strong gravity is, hehe" and another gal: "What about deus-ex soulcast? We haven't used that plot device on the bridges yet". So and so... IMHO, even with 0.7G the bridges are still hard to pull off in reality. What if that side of the chasm is only 1ft higher than this side? How can you push it up from here?? Even with a design of sloping backside, the bridges will face great difficulty if now instead of just 25cm, the other side is 5ft higher, what I consider commonplace on a terrain so shattered as the Plains. Some of them, while wonderfully explained, don't mean that they're now not inconsistencies at all. For example, Sadeas with all his "weaknesses" like that should not be portrayed as an dangerous eel or something. It leaves us a feeling that he was just used as a plot device to propel the story through 2 books, and now his role is done as the new arc of Desolation has descended upon everyone, he's killed very conveniently. Or Shallan's curiosity. Previously, Sanderson described she had been distracted even when her own life is on the line, (fractions of) seconds before being killed. Veden or Alethi or whatnot, when your existence is being threatened then it's really, very big deal. Like, the HUGEST deal. It demonstrated how strong the scholar mind was. And we humans are super good at procrastination, or delaying important things for present pleasurable distractions even though we know those crucial things will benefit us a lot. Sounds similar to this 'save the world' situation? Also keep in mind that Shallan had no specific countdown like Dalinar. While she knew that Urithiru was the key, she was under no pressure when she joined the army. Only near the end of the march that Dalinar suggested that her discovery could be a lifeline for his troops. So closing herself in a carriage and reading our book (er, I mean Words of Radiance) nonstop for more than a week while a spectacle was happening right outside is just nonsense. Remember, some of us Sandersonites here completed this heavy tome in, like, 2 days. Must be the same case with her.
  9. Well, then shouldn't Szeth be happy about this revelation? Toward the end of the Everstorm fight, even though he admitted the truth, he still wanted to kill Kaladin really bad. How about stopping & shaking hands with Kal, and ask him for more information so he'd be truly free from the curses? From every mention in the 1st 2 books, it worked in a way that the damage is done 1st and the repairing comes after. No shielding effect. So it's easy to conclude that if someone is dead fast then there's no chance to heal. Now, we remember that Adolin expected to kill a full Shardbearer just by pushing her down the chasm. There's no indication of the chasm's height where Eshonai fell & where the pair fell. By just the pictures of the Plains, I assume that they're roughly the same height. OTOH, Kal's bond with Syl was put on hold at that time. Right before & after the incident, he did try really hard to breathe in but to no avail. There's no reason to believe there was Light for him. Welp, I can't really counter this argument, lol This one makes sense! Now that you mentioned it, everything can be solved by the deus-ex word "soulcast". I always find it funny to imagine the giant black canvas covering the soulcaster company moves slowly to toward the soulcasted latrines filled up with excrement, then opens up, swallows the structures, and closes trapping all the incredible smells within. After a minute, it's like BAM! and a huge column of smoke rises up from inside the canvas. Then it moves away, and soldiers can only see a bare ground where their latrine last night were. My thought is that they guess the weird canvas bring it with them. After some hours and some marching, it's time for lunch! Now the monster canvas march out again to the center of the 3 armies. 3 battalions of runners with big pots and pans come near, submit their things to some weird people in robes. They receive them and disappear into the canvas. Then BAM!, they return outside, lumbering with pots full of food, give those to the runners and get more empty ones. These runners then spread out to distribute the meals to the army, meanwhile more BAMs! continue to pop out from the canvas. Well, after seeing what happened in the morning, I can only wonder what the soldiers think where their food come from. While this, again, makes lots of sense, it also proves Sadeas' stupidity. That's another good point. I don't really know Alethi, but I assume they have physiology very similar to humans. If that's true, then cheap trick or not, I'd still be so impressed. Let's imagine those shardbearers as very, very fat sumo with katana. If I ever saw a 1v4 match, it'd be quite a display. But then, suddenly a tiny, lean sumo with a stick jumps in and draws 2 or 3 big guys out, then somehow manages to survive... Eventually he loses his stick, but then he kicks a fat sumo away!? This new scene is so novel I'd not pay much attention to the other 1v1 or occasionally 1v2 fight of "Adolin-kun" anymore. You know, simple human psychology Oh, I have some more questions: 8. The unmasking of Amaram. Kaladin wasn't supposed to be able to appear there, being injured & exhausted after the fall. Then Dalinar led him to Amaram and the story happened as it was. Did Dalinar decide to do it on the fly? 9. Szeth's source of Light. Coppermind says spheres go dun after a week. It's been 2 weeks into the Weeping. WoR also states that even the most valued spheres (emerald broams?) were barely visible at that moment. In every assassination, we're told that Szeth used spheres. This time what powered him? He couldn't carry those big, rough stones like inside the army lanterns because his body would bloat like a hippo, not to mention his clothes can't carry them and they'd hinder his movements so much.
  10. Hello there, 1st, let me make clear of the situation: I've just finished WoR less than a week ago. It took me more than a month to read, so some of my memories are fresh & accurate while some may not. tWoK is even farther. Aside from those 2 books, I'm totally a newbie in the Cosmere, not having known about Brandon's work before. So please spare me if you find some stupidity and kindly enlighten me, will you? Now I'll dive into the inconsistent parts, or rather, some mistakes: 1. This one carries on from tWoK: the bridges. I can't possibly imagine any wooden structure that can be carried on men's shoulder that is also durable for armies to march on and most importantly, able to be slid across a chasm. Halfway through it, gravity will just not agree with you anymore. The fact that there's no pictures in the 2 books proves that even the artists can't handle this task. 2. The failed assassination at the palace. Szeth was so determined to kill Kaladin the returning Radiant during their Everstorm encounter, why did he chicken out when there was just hint of it the 1st time? Remember, he lived by the rules/orders and died by them, too. In fact, he did it so hardcore that he's revived just for that reason. At the palace, his order was to kill Dalinar. He always prepare lots of spheres, after being pushed out of the hole he could just leave Kaladin there, fly up & finish the easy job. 3. On that same vein, his method of ending Dalinar was questionable, too. The old guy couldn't keep up with him anymore. Instead of using the Blade, he felt the need to reach out even further with his hand and lash Dalinar up?? Woah, so convenient for a dramatic rescue by a Windrunner, lol. 4. The epic 1v4. Lighteyes or dark, the spectators there were not blind. The spectacle of an unarmed normal guy dancing around 2 Plates and finish 3 of them is not something anyone can miss. Even if some of them hate darkeyes, they couldn't just ignore him. It's like during the civil war, you were a Southern officer witnessing someone singlehandedly charge up and obliterate a company AND a squadron of your own side (it was clearly written in the book that each Shardbearer equals 100 men or more). Any other emotions aside, a feeling of awe is a must. What I consider making sense is for the crowd to rumble at every move of Kaladin and burst into a thunder after team Adolin won. The series of actions and reactions afterwards by everyone didn't. 5. The fall. There were a Lightweaver and an injured soldier without any special abilities. What saved them? 6. Shallan's curiosity. Near the beginning of the book, the author described that special 'scholar mind' that distracted Jasnah, and then Shallan, from concentrating on some important tasks at hand. Now, during the great march, I'm sure that itself was an exhibition. Never before in her life Shallan had been with an army. Also, never before there had been such a huge army of tens of thousands of people doing such a long campaign. And... there's almost no description of it. I feel like this is a part where the book is poorly rushed. Tons of questions could be raised. Like, how did they poo? 7. Sadeas' utter inanity. In every point of view from tWoK to WoR, Sadeas was portrayed to be an eel, or an old fox whose intelligence can topple any position. In other words, brain with brawn to boost. Well, some of his actions put a big question over that. Earlier, he witnessed a former slave of his, who survived his highstorm decree, ed him up and saved Dalinar's chullskin, was valuable enough the old Kholin sacrificed his Blade, now ed him up again by overpowering his Shard team. Yet, all of his thoughts were about Adolin who 'defeated' 4 guys??? WTF? And how in the Roshar could he think Adolin would be 1 of his subordinates after Sadeas killed his dad and ruled Alethkar? What's wrong with him when he was alone in the hallway and saw the man who several times had openly bared his threat to kill him in the most gruesome ways, and he walked up to Adolin only to insult him some more?? Holy storms, I think Sadeas' stupidity is beyond measurement. This is one HUGE inconsistency right here. OK, that's all I can think of for now. Maybe those are why I have this feeling that WoR is somehow inferior to tWoK, but before I wrote them out I can't really pinpoint why... What do you think?
  11. Thanks a bunch! Wow, those links lead to a rabbit hole. It was quite hard to stop myself from revealing too much spoilers But they are super helpful anyway.
  12. Hi there everybody! I wonder if there is anyone here from Vietnam, or at least Asia? As a debut post, I've got some questions for you already: 1. What is the reason behind our name 17th shard? What are the other 16? 2. I rated WoR 5 stars because there's no option of 4.5 on goodreads. The reason behind it is some plotholes, or at least some logic inconsistency that I found in numerous parts. They bug me quite a lot, and I couldn't find a proper place to discuss them there. So... what is the sub-forum where I should post those questions? And what should I expect? You know, as we're all Sandersonites, I'm afraid some of the responses would be like "Shut up", "Brendon is a god & can't make a mistake"... something like that. Thank you & cheers!
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