Tiberius Gracchus

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  1. All of the Crystals are recorded a short time before the CG there is discussion of Melishi setting off on a mission to capture Ba Ado Mishram, but none about the results of his mission, also the soldiers at Feverstone Keep obviously have not received word that the war is won. My understanding of the timeline is 1: Radiant's losing faith in themselves. (Honor, Ashyn reveal, infighting) 2: False Desolation begins (proves Herald's promise false) 3: Problems in Urithiru (Re Shephir, Climate, Sibling) 4: Abandoning of Urithiru 5: Cognative Genocide 6: Recrence (those last three take place over like a week) I hope Brandon gets into some more detail about this in RoW, I think many people are confused about this (I was when I first read OB) because the main narrative is really only concerned with the Colonialism angle and the rest is relegated to visions, epigraphs and Stormfather ramblings.
  2. The Radiants didn't continue after the Cognitive Genocide (good term btw) it is suggested that the Recreance took place immediately after that. (The Radiants are seen abandoning Roshar during wartime) it is my view that the factional fighting between Radiant orders, Honor's madness, the fear of destroying Roshar and the instability of Urithiru (Re-Shephir and The Sibling) first convinced the Knights to slowly dissolve the orders and downscale surgebinding but then the unexpected disaster of the Cognitive Genocide was the factor that forced the Radiants to abandon their shards immediately en masse. (and imho the Skybreakers would have fully disbanded with the others without Nale's personal intervention)
  3. I am pretty sure that the more complicated explanation of the Recreance is canon, it is just rather poorly communicated in OB, (a lot of the details around the additional factors are hidden in epigraphs and the reveal of the Elia Stele is given more narrative weight)
  4. I would point out that the secret that was the primary cause of the Recreance was the knowledge that the humans destroyed Ashyn through "surgebinding." (or at least some form of magic, Dawnshards probably involved) This combined with Honor's descent into madness, raving at the Radiants saying that they would destroy Roshar as well, and the disastrous end of The False Desolation (the mind-breaking of almost all of the Singers) forced the drastic action of abandoning the shards and disbanding the order. (worth pointing out that the Knights tried more moderate steps like abandoning Urithiru first) Your theory seems like a plausible explanation for the still not understood mechanism that means that surgebinding=planetary destruction, However the only examples we have of similar events are the destruction of Ashyn and the shattering of Nattanattan, both of which are implied to have been fast, explosive events of mass destruction leaving few survivors, not gradual ecological degradation.
  5. I imagine them doing a lot of both, and way less ruling and general-ing than Dalinar does. (I do see the guidance counselor duties as their primary peacetime role)
  6. There is also the question of the Rshyadium. There is a moment (I think in WoR chapter Monsters) where someone remarks that there was no cavalry in the desolations with the sole exception of Radiants mounted on Rshyadium. It is unclear to me who this would be as steeds would be irrelevant to Windrunners, Skybreakers, Edgedancers and perhaps Willshapers and Dustbringers whose surges already provide either comparable or superior mobility. Most of the other orders I do not see having a frontline role, (Elsecallers, Truthwatchers, Lightweavers and Bondsmiths don't seem the type to lead charges) and the Stonewards are too suited to the role of heavy infantry and would seem a poor fit for the aggressive glory-seeking attitude of cavalry. Tib
  7. A few more thoughts I agree that the Dustbringers were probably quite terrifying combatants, but I have no idea how they would be used. Would Knights and squires form into elite, explosive demolitions squads like a slower, more destructive version of the Windrunner sledgehammer, or maybe would they be interspersed like the Stonewards and serve as the point of every advancing regiment like many modern shardbearers do (Dalinar and Adolin at the Tower and Narak), or perhaps (if Division can be used from any distance) they would be behind the lines raining fire as a form of magical artillery. We just don't know enough about their abilities and worldview to ascribe them any specific role yet. I think you read an implication into my words that I did not intend. as this (powering up other orders) is exactly what I imagine the Bondsmiths doing. Tib
  8. I have spent quite a bit of time recently trying to imagine how the various orders of Radiants would function on the battlefield. Of course we are frequently told that most of the Radiants were not warriors, however the Desolations were desperate narrowly fought global wars that would have seen many situations where everyone was required to focus on military affairs. If a people are in a situation where (as I am confident they often were) where spears are put into the hands of 12 year olds, then I can be quite confident that every single knight with power armor, deific swords and magical powers would have long since been called to fight. Windrunners- I see this order as the closest thing that the armies of honor had to cavalry. On ancient battlefields cavalry was often used as a shock force. The mobility provided by horses and chariots allowed a division of (often the most skilled and equipped) troops to slam into an enemy where they were weakest. Of course we have seen that the powers of the Windrunners can easily transport both themselves and others around a battlefield, and we know that the Windrunners were the closest to “professional” soldiers of the Radiants. 2 or 3 Windrunners with 60-100 Windrunner squires carrying 100 or so of the other best “normal” troops in the army would have made quite the mobile sledgehammer. Skybreakers- I see the order of the Skybreakers doing many of the same things as the Windrunners, simply on a smaller scale. The fact that the Skybreakers spend most of their time as law enforcement, rather than soldiers and their relative lack of squires would make them more inclined to fight in smaller bands than the Windrunners. I see a small band of Skybreakers and squires flying around the battlefield raining down Division and bringing “Honor’s Justice” to high priority targets like a particularly problematic Fused or squadron of Regals. I also see the Skybreakers as the order most practiced at slaying Thunderclasts. Dustbringers- Well I don’t think I know enough about the Dustbringers to really form an opinion about them yet. Edgedancers- I see the Edgedancers as the Radiant’s medics, using Abrasion to zip around the battlefield distributing Regrowth and other supplies. I also see Edgedancers as useful in a siege situation; using progression to help grow edible crops as a supplemental food source to soulcasting. Truthwatchers- I find it difficult to place the Truthwatchers as we don't know that much about them but I imagine them filling a role somewhere between the Edgedancers and Elsecallers. Lightweavers- I think it is uncontroversial to suggest that the Lightweavers often served as spies, assassins, and saboteurs. Unlike the Skybreakers who I see swooping down to cut the enemy commander in two in the middle of the battle, I see the Lightweavers as the reason that the enemy army arrives to the battlefield with poisoned supplies, inoperable siege machines, their troops receiving incorrect orders and their reinforcements delayed. Elsecallers- I see the Elsecallers as the primary tacticians and weapons designers of the Radiants. I imagine they would spend the most time at the planning table drawing maps, accounting supplies (and refilling the stocks through soulcasting) and perhaps preparing countermeasures against the enemy’s less conventional threats. The exact line between their roles and those of the Truthwatchers are unclear to me. Willshapers- As with the Dustbringers, I do not feel like I have enough information to speculate. Stonewards- This order are the followers of the Herald of War. I see their role as being interspersed amongst the common infantry of the Radiant’s armies. Unlike the Windrunners who I see as directly leading the most elite regiments, the Stonewards would be standing with the weakest regiments creating stone earthworks, inspiring cohesion, and generally bearing the agonies of the soldiery. Bondsmiths- I think that Dalinar is a poor example of the traditional role of the Bondsmiths. While they might often serve as diplomats and emissaries. I think that they spent much of their time as personal advisors to the rest of the Radiants, helping them grow in their oaths and surges. I imagine that on the battlefield that the Bondsmiths would float around a provide support and perhaps powerups to the other Radiants in their times of most need. Thoughts? Tib
  9. Yeah the exact mechanics of the beginning of this new desolation is quite confusing. What exactly changed the moment that Taln broke? How much of the process was sidestepped by the Everstorm? What would have happened if Gavilar and the Son's of Honor's plans(whatever the hell they may have been) were enacted?
  10. So am I correct is believing that we still do not have a conclusive answer on what ends a particular desolation. Obviously the Heralds returning to Braize is the true end but when do they decide that a desolation is won. The only thing I can think of is when they have "killed" all of the fused, but that doesn't make sense as it it implied by Kalak's prelude that desolations would end with a (often closely fought) final battle that the heralds could predict would be the final battle before hand. (shown by the heralds having a pre-set meeting place for after the battle to start the return to Braize) Given the powers of the fused it seems that even if they lost a battle they would be very easy for some of them to just fly off and hide preventing the end of the desolation. But if it is not the fused, then what is it? Tib
  11. I agree that these kind of stories should be written and I would advise Brandon or anyone else to consider making dead-lover-revenge plots centered around women, but I don't think it would be appropriate to make that major a change to Mistborn, it would have enormous effects on almost every character to make Kelsier a woman. At that point I think you need to write a whole new story.
  12. What is he unwilling to do? Kill literally every single nobleman? I don't see his backing off of his original genocidal goal as much evidence of compromise or moral restraint. there is a big difference between deciding not to do something and being unwilling to do it.
  13. Well, I fell like I need to say that I agree with many who suggest that in fact Yeden and Dockson wouldn't be the best candidates for any actual genderbending. A lot of the criticisms of that idea are real and ones I agreed with before I started this post. I mostly wanted to share how the thought experiment of genderbending these two characters imo enhanced what I see as the tragedy of their respective arcs and relationships to Kelsier. Ooh, I like this a lot, I always thought Yeden was an underrated character and didn't love how he sometimes dipped into caricature. I have a soft spot for the "honest revolutionary" archetype and his early indignation and hostility towards the rest of the crew is one of my favorite parts of the early chapters of TFE.
  14. Hey, So I was listening to shardcast the other day, (I don't remember which one) and somebody mentioned that Brandon regrets not making any other female characters in TFE, especially in Kelsier's crew. when I first heard this I stopped and tried to think which of the crew members I would make a woman. i decided that i would most like Yeden and Dockson to be women as I always liked them and felt they were underused. I thought that making them women would make them stand out more and perhaps create more interesting dynamics with the rest of the crew. I quickly realized that if Yeden were made a woman, that this would drastically change how I would interpret his character arc. Yeden goes from vocally loathing Kel to beaming from his praise and jealous of his attention to getting himself and a many others killed in a foolish attempt to impress Kel. If Yeden was a woman the subtext would be that Yeden was obviously sexually infatuated with Kelsier and desperate to get Kel to love her back. As an avid fan of the "Kelsier is actually a monster" side of the fandom I really like this interpretation of their relationship. Kel is a manipulative narcissistic who is also a very handsome, charming and charismatic man, the idea that he would use his sexuality to trick someone into dying for him is entirely within character and just the right amount of monstrous. He is even shown consciously using his sexuality to manipulate in the scene with Vin's barber. The genderbending also had an similar affect on Dockson's character. Dockson is Kelsier's best friend. He is incredibly loyal and dedicated to Kelsier. He has a past that he talks about from before he met Kelsier but he never talks about his current life with Vin, or anyone else. Its reasonable to think that Dockson has no life outside Kelsier and their shared work, because Kelsier is his life. I read Dockson as being hopelessly trapped in an unrequited marriage to Kelsier, in an even less healthy reversing of the Kelseir-Maer-Marsh dynamic. I also like that Dockson is self-aware enough that he would be aware of his feelings, Kelsier's very real problems and that Kelsier will never love him back that way. He is simply unwilling or unable to tell Kelsier no. Of course neither Yeden or Dockson have to be women for their arcs to be read this way. I am doing a re-listen to TFE with this perspective in mind and it's holding up really well. Thoughts? Tib
  15. So a theory just popped into my head, I was re reading WoK and thinking about the parsh/parshendi desire to leave the bodies of their dead undisturbed. Brandon has confirmed that this tradition is formed by the cultural scarring that all parsh-people experienced when humans chopped up parsh corpses to get gemhearts in the early human-singer wars. I asked myself why the modern Alethi do not continue the same practice of harvesting parsh gemhearts either from their slaves or the Parshendi killed during the war of vengance. Given that Kaladin refers to teams of Alethi being sent to loot from the battlefields of the shattered plains taking equipment and even the gemstones from Parshendi beards, the only explanation I can think of why the Alethi do not steal Parshendi gemhearts is that they do not know that Parshendi have gemhearts. I find it inconceivable that humans across Roshar know that parsh grow gemhearts and no one bothered to collect them. I also find it inconcievable that the humans have been living among Parshmen for millennia and just haven't noticed that their slaves grow valuable gemhearts. My theory is that the parsh slaves that existed in between the False Desolation and the First Everstorm either had gemhearts that were changed to not be one of the 10 polestones or they simply didn't have them at all. This would explain why they were unable to change form and how the spiritual damage of the False Desolation was passed from generation to generation. Tib