Deathwielded

While I do see were we are researching many ways to prolong a humans life span indefinitely, I doubt we would be able to become truly Invincible or Immortal. (assuming this is the word your mean when saying invisible) From what we see even if we can restore the negative effects from mistakes in cell replication that we see as resulting from the loss of Telomeres, we still have a problem with Memory. From what we have observed the human brain can only store so much information and retrieve it reliably. If correcting copy mistakes helps our brains function better there is still only so much room to store new info. (please don't believe Hollywood's incorrect insistence we only use 10% of our brain, its just plain outdated bollocks that they like to refer to again and again) Even if you believe like I do that Thought and Memory are stored in a Spiritual way and the brain only reacts to what our Spirit feels or remembers we still run into issues with what you brain can store as far as Physical memory. (not to mention we dont know the limits of the soul/spirit to know how much it can store nor is it easy to test scientifically something Immaterial) some have proposed we can upload our Consciousness to a computer so we keep our memories and continue to "live on" in cyberspace but thats hardly like the Lord Ruler and I fear it would best case only be like cloning your current mind while the real you dies. as far as being Invincible we cannot replicate a healing factor as proposed in Mistborn or X-men for example. Both show regrowing new tissue or matter magically when we only have a limited amount of physical resources in our body at any one time. after running out of fat reserves you will stop healing. even if we say you can have a super metabolism and you can continue eat and replenish your bodies resources that a super regenerative factor would need we would still run into issues of taking mortal damage that cannot be healed or being away from food to eat or causing damage faster than can be healed. Even with Nanobots in the blood stream we still would run into issues with limited resources. so in the end no matter what enhances we can do to alter or "improve" the body we are still limited beings that cannot reach the Lord Rulers level in terms of being able to survive nearly everything. food for thought though

Super cool to see them Crossover If one of your players want a deeper understanding of the force you could pull something like Taravangian or Dorian (from Night Angle Series) and make it so they go into a trance every so often that makes them see the universe and the force from a different point of view. For example while in the middle of running or fighting suddenly the character is slack jawed and contemplating the logical claims of two insects having a dispute somewhere in the universe. Or overlooking the surges of power in the weather to know its about to rain, but had to spend time literally with their mind in the clouds. Things like that. they would need to roll a will check or something to bring their mind back on task if they want to end the experience early. it gives them a deeper understanding and the force isnt just limited to powers but binds and connects Everything, but with this it will sometimes not the most opportune times or pertinent information. it allows you to give hints or information in visions and the like.

I suppose our disagreement is based on what degree does the term relatively Peaceful apply. I don't see your point as helpful in clarifying the timeline, or the OP topic and I don't see why it makes a difference one way or another. Do you have a point that changes anything?

Disagreed. People in apocalyptic level war like a Desolation would agree that typical war's are like child's play in comparison. Even if the Dawnsingers warred among themselves like humans are typically want to do, they were still peaceful towards the humans at first. (on command of their gods, but still) we don't know who broke the peace, but I think its a safe assumption the voidbringers were the aggressors as they were not content with the Shin Homeland. (atleast until more is revealed in coming novels or WOBs) Relatively peaceful Roshar vs Desolation Roshar. People (in world and out) would argue Roshar was relatively peaceful after Aharietiam even with the false desolation and the Sunmaker when compared to almost total civilization destroying warfare like the desolation's were.

Correct we do not know much. We only know Spren and Highstorms were there before Honor and Cultivation were and so were teh Dawnsingers I'm assuming it was peaceful in comparison to the Desolations. We dont know when Fabrial's started being used, but as far as we know it could have been a part of the Dawnsinger society. I was going to say it may have been required to build the Dawncities, but we dont know enough about Dawncities to be sure.

I know we haven't seen that on screen yet, but we will probably see a flash back on that in the future. Also the Heralds have lead the battle to defeat the Voidbringers over the course of how many desolations? They clearly haven't lost to them as far as we know. Lord Ruler VS Susebron both at full power. Vin VS Kaladin no Shardplate and no Atium

we know at the very least some the 5 Scholars were Worldhoppers. I dont think its a stretch to believe they all could have been. Hemalurgy was very secretly practiced before the Catacendre, so I doubt it was easy to figure out the exact working (from the Lord Ruler or an Inquisitor) then kill two Ferochemist's (which were rare even then) and leave. After the Catacendre, knowledge of Hemalurgy is more wide spread, but the exact workings was known still by a very small specific group of people. I think its a hard sell to believe Denth successfully went to those lengths. Honestly he was probably highly talented with a sword to begin with then got even better by honing those skills and reaction times over the Centuries. To be fair Khriss was also an outsider who figured out Hemalurgy from what I understand so its not so unbelievable but still cool idea though! this is the kind of scrutiny Brandon Sanderson hints at us needing as we have apparently seen many types of Worldhoppers on screen that we haven't caught onto yet including Dragons.

I definitely agree, I doubt she would be a Windrunner based on her personality. I think case could be made for Vin being a Lightweaver with her two personalities, but I like her better as a Dustbringer I could see Steris as a Truthwatcher or Elsecaller and Wax Feels like more of a Skyreaker to me. Kelsier is a tough one. I want to say Bondsmith too as he brought the Ska together and the whole Survive thing he has. I think Adolin will end up an Edgedancer after things we learned in Oathbringer we don't know enough about Stonewards, Willshapers ect to properly pair people with them in my opinion.

This is an interesting Topic! I like the idea of Shards "combat' each other using their intents. it could help to explain Cultivation's seemingly non-interference in the final desolation so far. It could be that instead of directly fighting she was "cultivating" Dalinar, Lift ect to be better champions or warriors to combat Odium's plans. One issue is that we see Vin take up Preservation in HoA and then uses it almost immediately to suicide with Ati. That seems highly out of character for Preservation's power, even if Vin wasn't a shard long enough to be fully influenced by the Intent. there does seem to have been a pact and certain rules put in place by the 16 shards, but if they were so Binding I just dont see why a pact Hammer hasn't been dropped yet to punish an offender. However Endowment doesn't seem to view Odium's actions as breaking the pact made even though he is clearly interfering with other shards. Maybe he can use the justification that he IS the pacts Hammer bringing Justice to the Shards that "broke" the pact? Devotion and Dominion AND Honer and Cultivation settled on the same planet. We just dont know enough about Ambition to assert she "broke" a part of the pact or anything she really did. We know his final goal is to be the only Shard remaining. We know Odium likes to Justify his actions and takes pains to make it seem like he cares about Sentient life. Calling himself Passion and saying he is the only one who understands, ect. I could see him making a case for why he splintered each shard he did to make it look like he is just being a good Shard while he schemes to divide and conquer the rest.

I think Liss is one of the heralds, in my opinion likely Chanarach as she has a Shardblade and is a female assassin. just my theory, as she seemed unusual to me and was in the area along with several other Heralds during Gavilar's treaty signing. Which we have heard isn't just coincidence they were in the area

using what we know so far and reviewed do we think this is a reasonable explanation of the the order of events: 1. Singers lived peacefully on Roshar with Spren and Highstorms. Fabrials could have existed and be in use. 2. Humans lived on Ashyn and based on what we know of the Silence Divine they had a virus/bacteria based Investiture that granted powers. (it wasn't always planned to be that type of magic) 3. Honor and Cultivation are on Roshar. 4. Odium was traveling the Cosmere Splintering shards starting with Ambition whom he wounded and chased after then took out Devotion and Dominion. (he could have ended up on Ashyn and pushed them along to destroy the planet, but we dont know if a shard was there or not and I dont see Odium needing to destroy a planet that doesn't have a shard there already) 5. The humans from Ashyn destroyed the planet using what we are calling the Dawnshards or a form of Surgebinding. (could just be using known words to refer to a lost magic system) 6. The Humans were transferred from the destroyed planet to Roshar using a not fully explained process that Brandon is still working on the mechanics of. 7. The gods (Honor and Cultivation) told the Singers to allow the humans to live in Roshar and the Singers granted them the land now know as Shinovar. 8. We know many of the Heralds were alive on Ashyn and they were still alive when the first desolation started. 9. Odium Invested some of the Singers to become the fused making the war un-winnable for the Humans/Voidbringers as they could essentially possess new bodies and continue fighting. Plus Thunderclasts would be difficult to defeat pre-shardblades 10. Honor Created the Honorblades (and thus the Stormlight Surges we know today that are used by the Heralds and proto-knights Radiant. Referring to the 10 pairings of powers and infusion of Stormlight directly) and the Heralds and the Oathpact is forged. (unsure if the Honorblades were made for the first desolation or after they broke pact the first time. I think before) 11. The fused are bound to Braize by the Heralds and Odium is also bound partially by the Oathpact but largely from Honor directly. (I think Odium being invested in the fused being a part of the reason) 12. The Oathpact doesn't hold forever as Heralds give in to the torture and the loophole in the Oathpact allows the heralds to leave thus freeing the Fused to to the same. However once the Fused are killed again the Heralds can take up the Oathpact again and the cycle of Desolations continue. the line defining sides and who is now called the Voidbringers are blurred 13. During the Desolations the Fused learn how to use Voidbinding to combat the Herald's use of Surges and the first non-herald humans starting bonding True Spren who mimicked the Honorblade's use of Surges to help in the fight. 14. The Knights Radiant were formally organized by Ishar and the Heralds became the begrudging patrons for the 10 orders. 15. The Knight Radiant would discover the truth that the humans were the invaders and the Singers were the Original inhabitants and fear their powers could destroy Roshar just like their Ancestors destroyed Ashyn, but Honor would console them and encourage them thus keeping them in line. 16. Honer getting weaker and starts dying. This is likely due to Odium attacking Honor or the Oathpact being broken so much. Probably both. 17. The "Final" Desolation occurs were the 9 Heralds who miraculously survived this time decide leave Taln to suffer alone for 4000+ years since he was the only one of them to never break once. 18. The False desolation happens were Odium and Taln were still sealed on Braize, but Ba-Ado-Mishram started providing voidlight and forms of power to the Singers before being sealed by a strike team of Radiants. 19. The Day of Recreance happens once the Knights Radiant once again discover the truth of their alien origins, but Honor is raving mad instead of helping them understand or reassuring them. 20. Honor creates the Visions and charges the Stormfather to grant them to someone worthy and then fully dies.

corrected and updated Timeline I'm working on: 1. Singers lived peacefully on Roshar with spren and Highstorms. Fabrial's could have existed and be in use. 2. Humans lived on Ashyn and based on what we know of the Silence Divine they had a virus/bacteria based Investiture that granted powers. (it wasn't always planned to be that type of magic) 3. Honor and Cultivation are on Roshar. 4. Odium was traveling the Cosmere Splintering shards starting with Ambition whome he wounded and chased after then took out Devotion and Dominion. (he could have ended up on Ashyn and pushed them along to destroy the planet, but we dont know if a shard was there or not and I dont see Odium needing to destroy a planet that doesnt have a shard there already) 5. the humans from Ashyn destroyed the planet using what we are calling the Dawnshards or a form of Surgebinding. (could just be using known words to refer to a lost magic system) 6. the Humans were transferred from the destroyed planet to Roshar using a not fully explained process that Brandon is still working on the mechanics of. 7. the gods (Honor and Cultivation) told the Singers to allow the humans to live in Roshar and the Singers granted them the land now know as Shinovar. 8. we know many of the Heralds were alive on Ashyn and they were still alive when the first desolation started. 9. Odium Invested some of the Singers to become the fused making the war un-winnable for the Humans/Voidbringers as they could essentially possess new bodies and continue fighting. Plus Thunderclasts would be difficult to defeat pre-shardblades 10. Honor Created the Honorblades (and thus the Stormlight Surges we know today that are used by the Heralds and proto-knights Radiant. Referring to the 10 pairings of powers and insuffion of Stormlight directly) and the Heralds and the Oathpact is forged. (unsure if the Honorblades were made for the first desolation or after they broke pact the first time. I think before) 11. The fused are bound to Braize by the Heralds and Odium is also bound partially by the Oathpact but largely from Honor directly. (I think Odium being invested in the fused being a part of the reason) 12. The Oathpact doesn't hold forever as Heralds give in to the torture and the loophole in the Oathpact allows the heralds to leave thus freeing the Fused to to the same. However once the Fused are killed again the Heralds can take up the Oathpact again and the cycle of Desolations continue. the line defining sides and who is now called the voidbringers are blurred 13. during the Desolations the Fused learn how to use voidbinding to combat the Herald's use of Surges and the first non-herald humans starting bonding True Spren who mimicked the Honorblade's use of Surges to help in the fight. 14. the Knights Radiant were formally organized by Ishar and the Heralds became the begrudging patrons for the 10 orders. 15. the Knight Radiant would discover the truth that the humans were the invaders and the Singers were the Original inhabitants and fear their powers could destroy Roshar just like their Ancestors destroyed Ashyn, but Honor would console them and encourage them thus keeping them in line. 16. Honer getting weaker and starts dying. This is likely due to Odium attacking Honor or the Oathpact being broken so much. Probably both. 17. the "Final" Desolation occurs were the 9 Heralds who miraculously survived this time decide leave Taln to suffer alone for 4000+ years since he was the only one of them to never break once. 18. the False desolation happens were Odium and Taln were still sealed on Braize, but Ba-Ado-Mishram started providing voidlight and forms of power to the Singers before being sealed by a strike team of Radiants. 19. the Day of Recreance happens once the Knights Radiant once again discover the truth of their alien origins, but Honor is raving mad instead of helping them understand or reassuring them. 20. Honor creates the Visions and charges the Stormfather to grant them to someone worthy and then fully dies.

2. The Magic system wasn't always disease based sure but it is generally considered so now. So I think its still fair to say that brandon will account for what he has written and will write to make sure it makes sense. 10. Honor Created the Honorblades and the 10 surge pairings we see today. Spren were definitely there before and Fabrials likely existed already. I just mean the proto-knights radiant system of these particular 10 surges and pairings. (I will clarify though in the updated Timeline) 11. so it was a part of what is binding him, likely him being invested there has something to do with it. WOB: Eric For the second letter, Rayse is captured and cannot leave the system he inhabits, Roshar. Is the fact that Odium can't leave Roshar a direct result of the Oathpact, or something else? Brandon Sanderson Not a direct result of the Oathpact, but the Oathpact was part of it. Shadows of Self Chicago signing (Oct. 12, 2015)

We actually know that 15 Happened before the The Day of Recreance but they had Honor to reassure them. it was rediscovered again around the The Day of Recreance but instead of Honor reassuring them he started ranting about Ashyn being destroyed. I will modify the events showing the "final" desolation happened before the day of Recreance I definitely had that backwards. (I meant to show the timeline from 1- to 13 or 14 and then thought why the heck not continue with it)

The way I understand it. Odium might have fanned flames of war and then chose the Singers as they are more "Passionate" than the void bringers. Thus Honor and Cultivation "sided" with the humans. I dont think Honor and cultivation switched sides but saw Odium "corrupt" some of the Singers. We see Singers and Humans have been on both sides of the Desolations.

I am also very curious on the origins of humans coming to Roshar and the Dawnshards or Surgebinding that destroyed a planet. I believe we are currently aware of the following sequence of events so far: 1. Singers lived peacefully on Roshar with spren and Highstorms. 2. Humans lived on Ashyn and based on what we know of the Silence Divine they had a virus/bacteria based Investiture that granted powers. 3. Honor and Cultivation are on Roshar. 4. Odium was traveling the cosmere Splintering shards. ( he could have ended up on Ashyn and pushed them along to destroy the planet perhaps) 5. the humans from Ashyn destroyed the planet using what we are calling the Dawnshards or a form of Surgebinding. (could just be using known words to refer to a lost magic system) 6. the Humans were transferred from the destroyed planet to Roshar using a not fully explained process that Brandon is still working on the mechanics of. 7. the gods (Honor and Cultivation) told the Singers to allow the humans to live in Roshar and the Singers granted them the land now know as Shinovar. 8. we know many of the Heralds were alive on Ashyn and they were still alive when the first desolation started. 9. Odium Invested some of the Singers to become the fused making the war un-winnable for the Humans/Voidbringers. 10. Honor Created the Honorblades (and thus the Stormlight Surges we know today) for the Heralds and the Oathpact is forged. (unsure if the Honorblades were made for the first desolation or after they broke pact the first time. I think before) 11. Odium and the fused are bound to Braize by the Heralds, but it doesn't last as we know. 12. the cycle of Desolation continue and the line defining sides and who is now called the voidbringers are blurred 13. during the Desolations the Fused learn how to use voidbinding to combat the Herald's Surges and the first non-herald humans starting bonding True Spren who mimicked the Honorblade's Surges to help in the fight. 14. the Knights Radiant were formally organized by Ishar and the Heralds became the begrudging patrons for the 10 orders. 15. the Knight Radiant would discover the truth that the humans were the invaders and the Singers were the Original inhabitants and fear their powers could destroy Roshar just like their Ancestors destroyed Ashyn but Honor would console them and encourage them thus keeping them in line. 16. the False desolation happens were Odium and Heralds were still sealed on Braize, but Ba-ado-mishram started providing voidlight and forms of power before being sealed by a strike team of Radiants. 17. Honer getting weaker and starts dying. This is likely due to Odium attacking Honor or the oath pact breaking so much. Probably both. 18. the Day of Recreance happens once the Knights Radiant once again discover the truth of their alien origins, but Honor is raving mad instead of helping them understand or encouraging them. 19. the "Final" Desolation occurs were the 9 Heralds who Miraculously survived this time decide leave Taln to suffer alone for 4000+ years since he was the only one of them to never break once. 20. Honor fully dies (could be before the "final" desolation or after we dont know for sure) anything I'm missing? or we should add to the timeline?

hmm this is an interesting theory. Could it be that the Ashyn based magics are still alive on Roshar? could Renarin's epilepsy be a form of this? I was assuming him being able to see the future was because his spren is enlightened, but could it be as simple as he has the right condition? Just a thought, I'm not convinced of it, but worth considering the Ashyn magics have not been fleshed out like at all. We know the dawnshards or surgbinding destroyed the planet. since the Rosharns dont remember those words its likely they are substituting the words they do know for the actual term. Similarly they refer to Wine that isnt actualy wine and Birds are Chickens even though they are not necessarily chickens.

that's what I was thinking. It is far to common a Metal to have not tried it out especially after Era 1 when they were told to look for two more metals and I highly doubt they tried Cadmium and Chromium before trying all types and percentages of Silver. Electrum works in the Metallic Arts and its an alloy of Gold and Silver. So I guess it is sort of used, but isn't a main metal. Curiously the effect of Electrum being poor mans Atium seems to grant a more powerful effect which might show that Silver has some added effect to it. I always thought Malatium and Electrum got their powers confused as they seem better paired power wise in reverse. (Electrum currently counters Atium and Malatium sees other peoples potential past like gold does top ones self)

I think Ishar being called the Binder of Gods could refer to him holding a binding agreement with Honor and Cultivation and maybe Odium. Several peoples on Roshar consider Spren to be gods and we know the shards are considered higher gods. I think Ishar proposed the deal that became the oathpact, Ishar feels like the idea man while Jezrian is the leader. (Ishar leading them to break the oathpact and leave Taln behind) They both have access to the surge of adhesion thru their honorblades which is interesting as both are considered the leaders of the Heralds. (adhesion and Leardership is connected) Ishar also helped form the Radiants, we don't know how involved he was with this it could be he used his "bondsmith" like powers to help create the first Nahel bonds? The Spren Mimicked the Honorblades and who better to help set it up then Ishar? several good reasons why he might be called the Binder of Gods, it doesnt seem out of character to me like Herald of Luck

I have heard some believe that the "Main God" has his universe, but can exalt one of his creation to deity level, then they are free to go and create their own universe and be that version of reality's "god". I know Mormons hold a similar belief system and that Brandon Sanderson is a practicing Mormon. So it makes sense to me that Adonalsium is the "god" of this universe but might not be the highest power overall. Likely Brandon will just focus on Adonalsium and his shattered pieces to explore the process of Mortals being Exalted similar to how his IRL belief system is, which I know I certainly enjoy. I'm pretty sure his use of the term Endowment is also from Mormonism so its highly unlikely his books aren't influenced by his personal beliefs, but he takes great pains to insure its a world we all can enjoy and have our own philosophies about.

I like this theory. I definitely think era 3 will cover a lot more cosmere aware situations and story. I dont know if the mechanics of world hopping would be explored then or not. Oathbringer had a lot of crossover compared to earlier books. I would be highly surprised if we got to the end of Era 3 Mistborn and it wasn't more widely known about other planets on Scadrial. Brandon has stated its more a 1980's feel and we were definitely looking to the stars then on Earth so I would be surprised is Scadrial doesn't have something similar.

I would go with Surge Binding if I can get Stormlight as Healing is important and Being able to control surges are very powerful. If I couldn't access Stormlight readily Then I would go with Feruchemy for healing but also the other amazing effects. Crushing tests with Coppermind and memorization. Speed and Strength in Emergencies. I already like wearing Rings so necklaces and other metals would not be out of the question if they grant powers. There are so many real world applications for those powers and I wouldnt mind the cost of being weaker for a time. Sitting at a computer? do I need long range sight? Do I need Strength? ect

Silver storing investiture is a cool idea! However when we see it doing anything it blackens and destroys the metal. It could be due to the Investiture being corrupted that damages the metal instead of storing it? I think Nightbloods Sheath is Aluminium to contain it. it can look pretty silvery. Oh yeah he was given a knife! I don't remember it being mentioned as Silver, but who knows? Brandon is very good at being coy and dropping early hints that we would have figured it out much earlier if given slightly more info.

Friendship and Harmony cookies! Everyone gather around and enjoy! (warning may contain more than the normal amount of Iron or other metals.)

I think Silver has some special effects even outside of Threnody. its a common enough metal that it would be weird to simply not utilize it in Allomancy unless it was invested before Preservation and Ruin setup the Metallic Arts. However that logic breaks down when you consider Aluminum effects other forms of Investiture and can block it, but can also still work in the Metallic Arts. (Granted Aluminum has similar effects in Hemalurgy) I think Silver can effect and damage cognitive entities. Shades are a good example as they roam the physical realm without actual bodies. I imagine if you moved into the cognitive realm and had Silver it would be able to hurt beings like Kelsier back in Secret history. It does essentially nothing in the Physical realm, I was hoping it would burn for Allomancy but not have an obvious effect so it could be revealed later to only work against cognitive shadows. I wonder if it was a Silver Spike that Kelsier used to get back into the physical realm? Lots of unknowns and we just need to ROFO but we sure can wonder.