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Karger last won the day on January 24

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  1. Welcome all. It is looking like this will be the last of this particular series of theories. I may do one more about my underlying pattern oath theory but for the oaths themselves this will be it. For those of you who don't know I believe that Radiant Oaths (with the exception of Lightweavers) follow a pattern. The first ideal is constant, the second is about service, the third is about fairness, the fourth is about trust and the fifth is about the ultimate goal. This belief fuels all of my oath theories. Windrunners are the order we know most about. This is thanks to Kaladin and Syl who thankfully are not viewed under super unreliable narrators, do not have the soul of a dead god fused to them, did not go and visit the Nightwatcher and get a really weird boon, did not die and come back from the dead and spend time talking about advancement, leadership and the nature of the bond. We love you both. Also thank you Teft and the Lopen you are also amazing. From them, Words of Radiance and the gemstone archive we know that Windrunners manipulate the surges of gravitation and adhesion, have a large and very powerful number of squires, serve as scouts and for lack of a better term "middle management" for the radiants during wartime, and include those who desire to lead. We also know their first three oaths, the third by two completely different wordings. The first ideal for Windrunners is of course the same as for other orders "Life before death, strength before weakness, journey before destination." This is always the first ideal. In terms of ethical leadership it ties in nicely with an ethical leader's "duty to respect others." As Beauchamp and Bowie pointed out, “Persons must be treated as having their own autonomously established goals and must never be treated purely as the means to another’s personal goals.” Similarly a Radiant should respect life, and be willing to allow someone else's goal to be more important then their own. In a journey it is sometimes important to yield to someone else and let them cut ahead. As interesting and important as this concept is we have several more ideals to cover. What I can the ideal of service. This fits well here. Kaladin's swearing of the second oath is perhaps the best scene in Way of Kings it certainly ranks in my top five. "I will protect those who cannot protect themselves!" In it he acknowledges his responsibility. Ethical leaders serve others. Not just people who they are directly assigned to. Not just people who have an important role in their own lives. In management this is called the service principle. "In the workplace, altruistic service behavior can be observed in activities such as mentoring, empowerment behaviors, team building..." Does this sound like anything we remember? Additionally in modern times this is tied to beneficence. "The leader’s ethical responsibility to serve others is very similar to the ethical principle in health care of beneficence." This one also seems to ring a bell for me. Moving on. The final oath we here Kaladin swear is the third ideal. The third ideal is the ideal I can fairness. Fairness can be different things for different people. To Kaladin this ideal is about seeing past his prejudice to the value of each human being and being willing to protect them all. "I will protect even those I hate so long as it is right." For Teft fairness means being willing to take proper care of himself physically and spiritually rather then damaging himself for what he feels he did wrongly in the past. For leaders who follow ethical leadership theory this is often called justice or reciprocity but fairness is more common. Rawls (1971) stated that a concern with issues of fairness is necessary for all people who are cooperating together to promote their common interests. So far we have had a information that tells us where to go when it comes to our oaths. However we do not yet know the fourth oath. What we do know is that in Oathbringer Kaladin was unable to say it, and that a Windrunner in the gemstone archive thought that it meant in some ways not helping people. Speculation on this topic is nearly endless it has its own thread that has been active since 2017 and it may have been that thread that inspired me to start my pattern of oaths theory in the first place. I wondered about setting priorities, something that a Windrunner has to find a way to do. Something Kaladin really can't do I thought about other works of Brandon. Then it hit me. White Sand Prose. White Sand Prose spoilers. For those of you who have not read it the message in brief is that you sometimes have to be productive in one place and let other less competent people do the work you could do better somewhere else. Not everyone can be Kaladin but he still needs to trust them to do their jobs while he does his. He can't be in two places at once. Many people call this part of a leader's job to be honest. Dala Costa (1998) made a point in the Ethical Imperative book. "Do not promise what you can't deliver, do not misrepresent, do not hide behind spin-doctored evasions, do not suppress obligations." To most this makes sense. However to a Windrunner who trains almost exclusively in service of others this is counter-intuitive. How, wonders our third ideal windrunner from the gemstone archive, can I serve and help others if I also expect them to protect themselves and aid me in my mission? I am supposed to save lives how can I risk them? How can I help Dalinar if I expect him to solve this one on his own or with the help of those I do not know? I think this ties into the first oath. People have their own goals. You can expect them to stay out of the way while you do all the work even if you could do all the work which you can't. From this I expect the four oath to be "I will trust others to do those tasks that I cannot and to protect those that I can't." This also ties in a bit with oath five If my pattern oath theory is correct then the final oath should deal with the ultimate goal of a Windrunner. Windrunners are leaders so their responsibility should be the same as a leader's. That responsibility is to create a community(and yes I am aware that this is cliched to hell but it is also in ethical leadership theory). A leader is by definition part of a group endeavor. Whatever that endeavor that group to be effective must become more then just the sum of its parts. It has to be more then each individual doing their job. A leader has to understand and aid in the common concerns that the group faces and come up with an approach where everyone is willing to work together to solve them(I can think of a certain problem that requires an empathic leader to do this). Kaladin has already built one community but that is not enough. If he really want to lead then he is going to have to be prepared to expand his community and build new ones wherever he goes. As such I think a Windrunner's final ideal is "I will look for cause that everyone has a part in and I will help them complete their role in it so that they may do it well."
  2. Oh I just thought that you were referencing the Bondsmith guidance counseloring.
  3. No idea but he specifically mentions that not everyone can see it so I conclude that something is happening to them even at that stage.
  4. However from what we have seen all ideals have an element of difficulty to them. Does any reasonable person really feel the need to protect absolutely everyone? Even among Windrunners I do not think that Teft for example would have much trouble letting someone else be if they had demonstrated capacity to do their job without interference. Also check this one out.
  5. Bondsmiths might not be the most impressive on the field personally but I think you underestimate their overcharging abilities and the special resonance they have which each order.
  6. I don't think she is badly written I just really don't like her.
  7. I am not sure that Kelsier being a psychopath makes him an inherently worse person.
  8. No problem.
  9. Because it is people just trying to make the best of a bad situation. They weren't representing the establishment. They weren't running around with signs going "go lord ruler". Some of them just did it to make a buck, either for themselves, or their families. As apposed to being conscripted and having literally no choice? They same could be said of SA spoilers
  10. Maybe @ everyone?
  11. Magic that works like you might expect in a standard loosely explained magic system but it only works on other people who also have magic and has no effect on muggles.