Oltux72
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Posts posted by Oltux72
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Absolutely logical. In fact after that he had some level of control over her, so he would use her for reading and writing. No need to invoke pillow talk.
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5 minutes ago, MistMage said:
2) Knowledge wouldn't be lost if the Recreance happened the way I theorize it should have. The spren would have kept their Sapience and be able to teach the future generations of spren about the dangers of surgebinding. Theoretically, they would form some kind of psedo bond with future humans, which would allow them to dismiss the shardblade sans gem, and in that time the spren are in the Cognitive Realm, hanging out with their descendants.
3) No they don't have to do it at the same time, but I think it would be hard for the remaining Radiants to be aware that something weird happened. The gem stone trick to dismiss the shardblades hadn't been discovered until way after the Recreance. So all the spren are in Shardblade form, therefore they're not visible in the Cognitive realm if an Elsecaller or Lightweaver or Willshaper took a look. The only way they would notice is if they picked up a shardblade, which I think is unlikely if they have their own spren hanging around.
I am sorry, but this is logically inconsistent. You have to make up your mind. Either the spren would be available in Shadesmar or not. Points 2 and 3 are mutually exclusive.
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47 minutes ago, Krafl said:
Yes Gavinor would be formally a traitor, but my point is that what matters is Dalinar perception: could he really think of Gavinor as an enemy and not an innocent?
This is fundamentally mudled thinking. Your enemy is your enemy. Any Singer fighting for his side is innocent (at first glance. Obviously he or she could be guilty for unrelated reasons). An Alethi fighting for Honor is guilty.
47 minutes ago, Krafl said:Could Dalinar really believe that killing a child is an honorable mean to his goal?
What do you think happens while his forces besiege a city?
47 minutes ago, Krafl said:I personally don't believe Dalinar could justify to himself Gavinor sacrifice, but it's just my opinion and I could be wrong.
He may very well be unable to kill Gavinor, but that would be because he is hs grandchild. He would put his personal obligations above his duty. Dishonor.
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18 minutes ago, Krafl said:
I disagree, being a Radiant means acting with honor, as you perceive it.
I cannot imagine Dalinar sacrificing any innocent live to achieve his goals, and this was pointed every time this very moral dilemma was discussed between Dalinar and Taravangiam (see the discussion about the story of the four hogmans from Nohadon paraboles).
An Alethi taking up arms for Odium to get Alethkar is a traitor. He wouldn't be innocent.
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8 minutes ago, mathiau said:
It's likely Hoid already has sworn his 4th Truth but he doesn't really count so you're probably right
Why would he do that? It would make worldhopping even harder. He'd have to also move his Plate's spren.
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I thought I'd list a few technological oddities and how they are visible in the books. Then maybe we can discuss a common denominator
1. Guns. Scadrian gun technology is a curious thing. And it seems to be in extreme flux, leading to extremely anachronistic solutions..
In Alloy of Law Wax takes a captured gun and its ammo apart. The propellant is definitely black powder. Yet they use cartridges. That was a transition technology on Earth. Tech level around 1870. Yet Shadows of Self mentions a submachine gun.
2. No refrigeration
Shadow of Self clearly states that they get their ice from the mountains. On Earth refrigeration was invented around 1850 and became economical around 1875
3. Cars like around 1920
They look reliable and mass produced. That is post-WW1 technology. They definitely have gasoline engines. Waxillium wonders about using them in Bands of Mourning
4. No immunology
Bleeder tells us that the scientists of Scadrial don't know about the function of leukocytes. That is really odd. This is 1860ies knowledge.
5. Spectroscopy & Zeeman effect
Again Shadows of Self. That is fairly advanced physics. If you wish to understand it fully, you will need quentum mechanics.
6. Tarcsel's speaker's
It looks like he has invented an amplifier based on vacuum tubes. That is 1905 technology and was combined with loudspeakers in 1925.
On the whole it looks to be ahead of our world where electricity or materials help, but they are hopeless in organic chemistry or biology.
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11 hours ago, mdross81 said:
I know that Rayse ultimately couldn't contend with the will of the Shard of Odium, but damn if this wasn't a sneaky-ass plan he had. He had all of the Alethi doing exactly what he wanted. Battling it out to see who was the strongest, the most brutal. Hardening themselves up. And all the while they thought they were serving Honor. And Vorinism seemed to back that up. Odium's co-opting of that religion is really something to behold.
I am afraid I have to point out that this suspiciously sounds like cultivating the Alethi.
And I will allow myself a question. Why are people always coming back to the dead loser instead of the livig winner, who got her revenge, concerning the history of Roshar?
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Preservation also became mentally unstable. Odium killed Ambition, Devotion and Dominion without an oathpact being involved.
The only thing we know, by direct admission, to be a fatal risk to a Shard is breaking ther own word. That killed Preservation. However, the example of Ruin showed that killing a Shard is possible without that precondition.
I am afraid you reduced a general problem to a smaller problem without justification. The problem is explaining how Odium killed Ambition, Devotion, Dominion and Honor.
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On 25.5.2021 at 9:15 PM, Honorless said:
We were told 'Ado', in the case of Roshar, meant 'light' (and 'Lin' means 'born unto').
"Adoda" means light in contemporary Alethi. It may be derived from an earlier "Ado" or "Adod", but that is speculation. Ba-Ado-Mishram was presumably named when she was unmade, which must be around the time of the frst few Desolations at the latest, possibly right after the Splintering.
So we must either assume
- That certain sounds have meaning in the Cosmere for Arcane reasons
- a hilarious degree of conservativism
- random chance
- Ba-Ado-Mishram was renamed
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8 hours ago, MistMage said:
So my theory is that the spren and old radiants became afraid of their bonds because something similar caused the destruction of Ashyn, and they don't want a repeat to occur on Roshar. So they think the normal Radiant bond is dangerous and want to stop them, but there's the threat of the singers and the Fused returning again, so the Radiants wouldn't want to leave humanity completely helpless in future generations. So they devise breaking their oaths, with the understanding that doing so will cause the current generation of spren to be unable to form Radiant bonds in terms of granting surges, but may remain in the Physical Realm as Shards and even having some say in who wields them. This way it leaves some weapons for future humans to use to fight the Singers. Of course it all goes wrong with the spren losing all sapience and turning into deadeyes
- Why then? Did they assume themselves and their spren to go mad? Recognising that danger means avoiding it. Seems like suicide out of the fear of death.
- If you fear that on the contrary, you must never allow the knowledge to be lost.
- So they do this all at the same time? If not how do you explain that none of the slow ones picks up a Blade and hears the scream?
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13 minutes ago, Leuthie said:
I always thought most of their insanity is due to the degradation of Investiture required to sustain CSness or a weakened Connection due to Honor's death. This is why local Radiant Ideal acceptance gives them some lucid time: the weakened Connection due to Honor's death is temporarily strengthened by the "level up" of the Radiant.
Quite a lot of the Fused are drooling idiots, literally. And their god had not died, when they worsened to that level. Nor does it explain the wide disparaty of functionality we see among the Heralds.
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On 9.7.2021 at 2:28 AM, Bzhydack said:
First of all concerns is how on Roshar a little Girl obtains a STORMING RELIC WORTH FORTUNE.
There is also another thing. Most known Shardblades are, well, known. By Name. Documented. Have pictures, story. Not just gemstone, Shallan's Shardblade was odd when we consider its size for example (of course was smaller than thypical Shardblades).
Yes. But we have to ask a basic question. Why did he never asked Shallan to give the Blade to him? Why did he not make up a history of an intruder killing his wife with a Blade and he himself killing that intruder subsequently? Nobody would blame a man for failing to defend his wife against a Shardbearer. If you have two corpses, it will always be an option to say that one of them was the attacker.
On 9.7.2021 at 2:28 AM, Bzhydack said:So yes, Lin of course was suspicius, but is possible Ghostbloods contacted them first. His wife, Shallan's mother, probably was associated with Skybreakers, so possible than Ghostbloods keep an eye on him and all his family.
But what did they offer? Why did he never make an attempt to secure the Blade for himself?
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17 hours ago, Bzhydack said:
I think yes.
Remember how Mists react on Hemalurgic Constructs? Or how Pits react on Allomancy?
Not with an explosion. And they cooperate for Feruchemy
17 hours ago, Bzhydack said:Preservation and Ruin are oposit Intents, and behave very much like Investiture and Anti-Investiture.
You can make Harmonium. That should then be impossible.
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On 15.6.2021 at 4:30 AM, MistMage said:
Here's my theory of how the old Radiants intended for the Recreance to go and potentially what will happen if they find and release Ba Ado Mishram.
So Maya hints that the spren didn't intend to become deadeyes but would just be damaged after the Radiants decided to give up their oaths. My guess the original intention, and what used to happen when a Radiant broke their oaths before BAM was trapped, was that the spren would be damaged to the point where they couldn't form another full Nahel bond but still retain their minds and their ability to make decisions.
To be blunt, what would be the point? If those spren were of the opinion that they should no longer form bonds, why do anything? In a few decades there would be no Knights Radiant left and you cannot torture a spren into a bond. Even if you could, the Recreance would not affect the unbonded and the new spren. Why do something dangerous and painful now?
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On 7.7.2021 at 11:06 PM, MistMage said:
In terms of timing, I don't think the Recreance had to happen all at once. Because as some Radiants broke their oaths, they left their spren as Shardblades. As Shardblades, they remain in the physical realm. Over a few years probably, all the radiants have broken their oaths, all the radiant spren are left as Shardblades. No one knows what happens because no one has figured out how to dismiss a shardblade yet. Years later the trick with the gem is discovered, and now people can bond the shardblades and dismiss them, so the spren return to the Cognitive realm as deadeyes for the first time.
No, definitely, no, because surely a Radiant would have picked up a dead Blade and heared the scream.
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On 7.7.2021 at 11:33 PM, Lesser spren said:
Additionally what would the metal "Kalkis" in the text be? I'm not sure if they are Hemelurgic constructs, as hemalurgy requires blood.
I think that touches on a topic that maybe discussed only in a specific forum.
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The Constructs of Antiquity mentions a small colony of machine beings, named Kelkis, on Scadrial, which @Lesser spren remarked upon. And attributes them to the Lord Ruler's hemalurgy.
That is too close to a corpate not to suspect a connection, especially as Nazriloffi s interested in them, as depicted in the Ghastly Gondola. What do you think?
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I was thinking about what might happen in the gap between Era 2 and Era 3 and I relized that I am unsure about the most important factor. Does Trell know that Harmony has detected his intrusion? I cannot decide. Obviously the name Trell has been uttered, but does Trell still assume that the Scadrians and Harmony think that some social outcasts have just revived an ancient religion from the Words of Founding, or must he assume that he has been identified as having started an extraplanetary invasion?
The god metal he gave to Paalm would have to give him away, but upon reread it became unclear to me whether he knows that Paalm used her stash for anything but modifying herself and it became unclear to me whether Trell would assume that her spike was recovered. What do you think?
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4 minutes ago, ScadrianTank said:
I always assumed that the reason Shards don't give away technology was to prevent people from killing their planets Ashyn-style and becoming disinterested in research and science, like Sazed inadvertently did to the people of the Basin. In Odium's case specifically, he already pushed humans to experiment with magic they already had - and they nuked their planet. Not the best approach to raising an army for galactic conquest, especially when your forces are mentally fragile.
That may be true, but is a separate issue.
Humans clearly now either had anti-Light or they didn't. Nothing Odium did could change that any more. But no, he hastened the return of a Fused to have a weapon tested. A few days really would make no difference at all if that would have been about confirmation of an enemy's breakthrough. The humans have very little Raysium. They are not going to reequip all their armies with anti-Voidlight weapons within days. So he needed to have this weapon tested now for use by his own side. That means
- he needs it very soon
- it was impossible to test up to now
Hence Odium did not know about anti-Light and this weapon is to be used very soon and is important enough to go to the CEO-level. This dagger is to be used either in the duell of champions or in a scheme to avert the duell. Odium had to know now, whether it worked, so that there would have been time for a plan B.
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7 minutes ago, ScadrianTank said:
I assume you mean that the news of mortals having anti-Light is what surprised Odium, not the anti-Light itself. It would be weird if a Shard didn't know something about the fundamentals of the cosmere and Investiture.
I am afraid the anti-Light itself surprised him. Odium himself hurried to get a test subject for the anti-Voidlight weapon. If Odium knew what anti-Voidlight is, there would be no need to scramble to test a weapon based on it. At most he would replicate Navani's and Raboniel's method and recognize the anti-Light for what it is.
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5 hours ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:
I asked Brandon how many ‘HoA’ there had been and received a RAFO.
I think you raised a point inadvertedly. Why do we assume that always a single person waded into the Well of Ascension? What would happen if a group did it?
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I hope I got the title so that it is no spoiler. If not, somebody please speak up
There have been discussions about Gavilar becoming Odium's champion. There is a fundamental problem with that, however. Gavilar knew about anti-Light. I can see no way that Gavilar would serve Odium without Odium learning about anti-Light. And we must conclude from the hasty weapons test we saw at the end of Rhythm of War that antilight was news to Odium himself, not just his troops. I am afraid that is an unsurmountable obstacle.
Does that mean that Gavilar went to the Beyond? Now that is another question. Gavilar wanted to become immortal and presumably not by joining Odium into servitude as a Fused. We do not know how far his preparations had gone. It may have worked. Now, we need to return to another topic. Shallan must have seen portraits of Gavilar. But would she recognize him bald and aged? And Cognitive Shadows have a considerable power to change their physical appearance in Shadesmar. Is Sixteen Gavilar in disguise, who fled because he must not be recognized by his nephew's wife for his plans to work?
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1 hour ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:
I definitely disagree. I don't think his core is necessarily change, but I'd say the concepts are interwoven to a large extent. To quote Ruin,
People who feel are people who do, and do in a way that leads to change.
He liked the result, not the thing. He is like a farmer. They don't like going out in the rain any more than average, but it makes the plants on the field grow, so they welcome it.
1 hour ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:Similarly, when Dalinar sees Odium's essence:
It's not a force specifically for change, but these emotions aren't exactly the "sit there and do nothing" kind. They're the kind that push one to act.
Well, no. It is the force that drives you to radical decisions. Passion will also make it impossible to do things that rationally speaking would be advantagous. It just just that radical decisions lead to spectacular deeds we notice more.
1 hour ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:(I don't particularly think Transformation or Progression line up well with Odium, though. Merely commenting on that particular statement.)
Eh.... Odium can be used in other ways, but I'd say it's very strongly a destructive thing still and you kind of have to twist it to do other things. For example, the "hate can unify people more quickly and more fervently than devotion ever could" quote. Yes, it can unite, but generally the unity is in order to fight or destroy something else.
Which is a necessary component of live. You cannot truly love something or somebody unless you hate their enemies.
Unless you wish to deny conflict in general. Then we are back to Preservation.0 -
6 hours ago, LordFlea said:
Do they know how to? Can you source that?
That is the deal she made in Oathbringer. And in Rhythm of War we learn that she left.
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How the Recreance should have happened
in Cosmere Discussion
Posted
The problem is that if the spren were intended to show up in Shadesmar, but did not, you need to explain why nobody noticed and told the remaining radiants. Unless of course there were none. But then you need to explain what was the rush.
In fact why did they feel that a common decision was necessary and that all spren needed to take part?