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Posts posted by Oltux72

  1. On 09/11/2019 at 2:45 AM, Honorless said:

    Suinomancy from 'sus'? Why not Porcomancy from 'porcus'? :D

    Because the Latin word for pig was 'sus'. Porcus means 'piglet'. The change to pork was a later development of the Romance languages.


    On 09/11/2019 at 8:53 AM, Lunu’anaki said:

    If every human who becomes a shade believes shades are afraid of pigs, every new shade becomes afraid of pigs. This could even be an explanation for why shades hate fire, spilled blood, etc.

    The shades already existed. And given the name they already adhered to the Simple Rules.


  2. 17 hours ago, Quantus said:

    When you take a volume of gas, in this case Stormlight, and condense it to a solid form, it takes up substantially less volume than it did in it's gaseous form. This causes a vacuum effect on the surroundings, reducing the pressure of the air which in turn is forced to draw heat from it's surroundings to expand back out to fill that evacuated volume.

    Theoretically true. However, you need to bring the Stormlight that turns into the blade together. That means that the same amount of heat is released by that work.
    In addition, it does not take Stormlight to summon a blade. That was the whole point that led to the discovery that shard blades are not fabrials. They work if their gem stones are dun. Furthermore, they need to displace the air that occupied the volume they now inhabit. That means that they compress air. The air would warm up from that.


  3. 11 hours ago, BookishOcelot said:

    Radiation (sometimes) causes things to glow in the presence of certain elements because of a fabulous thing called Cherenkov Radiation. Basically, the pretty glow occurs when the particles from the radiation move faster than they normally would in a given substance (like water in a reactor). If stormlight is a very high energy particle and therefore moves a wee bit faster through water vapor- boom, pretty glow. But how do you get the colors? Adding more or less energy can make it grow more or less blue.

    If that were the case Stormlight would have to decay, as it loses energy. Also, the physical form of breath also shines light, as do Aons. It looks like Investiture in general does something to the structure of the universe which creates light.

    11 hours ago, BookishOcelot said:

    The second one: Stormlight (to me) acts like a gas. It moves to fill a container (ish). It expands and diffuses. It can be cooled down to another state. Perhaps when blades are summoned, they are cold. Some things, like carbon monoxide (dry ice) go directly from solid to gas. This seems to be one of those. As for stormlight in the atmosphere, Brandon said something along the lines of "Roshar has a really high oxygen level, and that's why fire isn't used much."

    An extreme loss of Stormlight also causes cold. Szeth at one point formed frost. It would be odd for the blades to be cold for a different reason.


  4. 8 hours ago, Big Smooth said:

    Thank you. I interpret this to stand for /xolin/, as -leen usually represents a closed /i/ and an /o/ is closer to /u/ than an /ɔ/

    The stress pattern in the Alethi language seem to be a question of class and/or region judging by how the stress on Kaladin's name was discussed, so I would not add stress.
    I am afraid there is another can of worms. The vowel system of Alethi. A language with a closed /o/ and /e/ only would be unusual. Can we assume that Brandon copied the vowel system of Alethi from Korean, resulting in 7 primary vowels? I really cannot fit a good Semitic system to the vowels in the names.
    So I would propose /dalinar xolin/. There is really no good reason to assume that Alethi has an /æ/ at all. And all syllables show full vowels. It would really be surprising to see a schwa in it. The names and words are just too long and show no signs of dropping vowels or syllables.


  5. 5 hours ago, Jofwu said:

    I doubt a significant number of people learn about the J thing from these pronunciations on Coppermind, so I just don't see much value on this. The inaccuracy and/or inconsistency with using these the way we have bothers me more.

    If we DO want to keep them, my opinion is that we should use [proper] Alethi pronunciation (so, yes, use the /x/ for Kholin) and require references.

    Is it



    How is the stress? Does Alethi have phonemic vowel length?


  6. Can you use Progression on animals in the same way it can be used on plants? Can you turn a tadpole into a frog or an alligator egg into a fully grown alligator? Do you have a choice among features depending on environment, like sex in alligators?


  7. 6 hours ago, King of Herdaz said:

    If it means anything, in the audiobook, all the kh's are pronounced as regular k's except for Khen the singer woman who they pronounce correctly.

    Her name being Alethi I see no way this choice being defensible. Maybe they just were not ready to call a woman "Ken".

    6 hours ago, King of Herdaz said:

    And while I've always "pronounced" it in my head while reading as a regularish k,

    Does your native language feature a /x/ ?

    6 hours ago, King of Herdaz said:

    I often think, based on this WoB, that it should be a Hebrew ches ח (fricative?) sound instead.

    That sound is indeed fricative in all varieties of Hebrew.


  8. On 23/10/2019 at 2:45 PM, bxcnch said:

    Imagine: Honor/Stormfather is sending visions to Sadees. Sadees starts conquering Roshar because of the "Unite them" visions, but at the same time, Odium tells Moelach to go to Alethkar. Moelach is sending the Death Rattles and possibly other prophecies as well. The Ardents notice them and start writing their own prophecies based on the Death Rattles.

    The Sunmaker toppled the Hierocracy. So the Hierocracy must be older. The timing does not fit.


  9. Just now, Karger said:

    That is probably a more accurate example of what is happening.

    Why? We do not know what shatters the plate. It could be energy or momentum or both. Nor do we know how this accumulates. Repeated hammerings work, hundreds of arrows do nothing. But there may be a lower limit below which damage does not accumulate. It looks like the effect of concentrating energy and momentum on a small area with a bullet does not work.
    I would try a large calber low velocity weapon to maximize momentum.


  10. 1 hour ago, Dancer said:

    Couldn't they still just draw the Aon's with their feet, or craft  Aon's out of wood or dust and make it work that way?

    Aons per urination in the sand? Apparently Aons need some depth, so you cannot just write them. But there is just too much opportunity to make them.

    1 hour ago, Dancer said:

     Seriously what is up with Sel! It is practically impossible to imprison it's magic users. 

    They have no explicit external fuel.



    When Vin was to be imprisoned this was possible by cutting her off from metals. Also they have Leechers.



    How would you imprison a Fused or the bearer of Yelig-Nar?

    The other magic systems are not different in their powers but in their source of fuel. It is impossible to imprison somebody with a full set of magic powers. It is strictly speaking not true that other magic systems of the Cosmere allows this. The difference is that they open up a way to turn a mage into a muggle at least temporarily, usually just by taking away the fuel.
    Anywhere where that possibility does not exist the problem arises. That is why we have a similar thread pertaining to Threnody.



  11. 38 minutes ago, Honorless said:

    Who's the "he" here? Who kept his position as a functionary? I was talking about the guards, who were put there by King Iadon to make sure the new Elantrians didn't escape, iirc


    38 minutes ago, Honorless said:

    Raoden teleported from Elantris, we don't know whether he got back the same way. Those were multiple Aon Daa, fired simultaneously.

    They got back sooner than a transfer by ship would explain.

    38 minutes ago, Honorless said:

    Plus, imprisonment should still be possible, don't forget 'Emperor's Soul', a prison for Elantrians could be made from 'Ralkalest'.

    All indications are that it is unknown on Opelon. You would really make armor out of it, if it helped against Elantrians. And you could still melt it.

    38 minutes ago, Honorless said:

    Of course I don't like the implications, how would a society like that function? You yourself raised this point.

    Differently from ours.



    Other worlds have a similar problem. Shardbearers are to an extent above the law.

    38 minutes ago, Honorless said:

    Even if things were like that before, with Raoden and Sarene, and all the previous Elantrians dead or off-world, things are bound to change in the coming sequels.

    Yes, but the underlying causes will not change. Hence I proposed an alternative to prison: corporal punishment


  12. 14 hours ago, Harrycrapper said:

    If Dilaf had a way of disrupting Raoden from channeling the Dor for his illusion, I'd bet there's a way to make a permanent Aon to disrupt any usage of the Dor in a specific area, like a jail cell. 

    If there is, it isn't mentioned. And research into this would have been dangerous. You'd develop a weapon specifically against yourself for the enemy.

    10 hours ago, Honorless said:

    Not pointing out their function, only date of establishment, which I hope I'm remembering correctly but it's been a while since I last read Elantris

    He kept his position as a functionary of Elantris.

    10 hours ago, Honorless said:

    Maybe jail them within Arelon, but far away from the city of Elantris itself? There has to be some way

    They can use Aon Daa even in Teod and they can teleport, albeit not very well. Making a prison that can hold them for long does not look practical in Arelon. And why does there have to be a way? Because you do not like the consequences?


  13. 2 hours ago, Honorless said:

    They're already giving up a level of sapience, part of their consciousness, what more is there to give? They didn't have any theology related to the Shades before the Forescouts encountered them.

    It has only been implied that Nazh is from a time before the Evil came to the Homeland (it probably is true though, given that Worldhoppers tend to be much older than they seem) and we get so little time with him that further speculation would be baseless.

    If we accept the general chronology that puts 'Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell' within a few decades of 'Alloy of Law', then the encounter between Kelsier and Khrisella & Nazh must predate the discovery of the Forest of Hell by more than a century. Yet Nazh spoke about rituals for becoming a shadow. And the forces of Threnody are mentioned. Hence there were shadows on Threnody before shades were discovered.

    2 hours ago, Honorless said:

    Shadows didn't do anything in the Homeland. They were discovered first by the Forescouts (of which Silence's grandmother was one) on the continent where the Forests of Hell are located, this is in fact the reason why they were named the Forests of Hell, Homelanders thought that the Forest was hell (it did contain the souls of the dead, sort of). Unless you're suggesting that the Evil and the Shades are connected, which is a theory that has been discussed before, but again, until the Threnody novel comes, we just don't know.

    That is well possible, but shadows and shades are not identical.

    2 hours ago, Honorless said:

    Silence's grandmother died after the people fled from the Evil in the Homeland. We don't know how, except she was killed by Shades and that she saved Silence (much like Sixth of the Dusk's uncle did in the other novella)


    Also, who is this amateur theologician from Scadrial you're talking about?



  14. 48 minutes ago, Honorless said:

    If passing Beyond is a 'true death' of sorts, I can kinda see the appeal of considering becoming a Cognitive Shadow, even a Shade. I can see someone trying to keep the Shade of a loved one too (looks at Silence).

    But that goes the other way. Why then not become a shadow? Do you feel suicidal? It should be the obvious default. Even if you eventually go on, why throw away this stage?

    There must be something you give up by becoming a shadow.

    48 minutes ago, Honorless said:

    We don't know enough about their culture, traditions and beliefs though, the only viewpoint on that we got was Silence's, who saw such things as frivolous, though she did believe in a God Beyond.

    That was after the Evil arrived. The only witness for the era before that is Nazh.

    48 minutes ago, Honorless said:

    Besides, again with regards to the shade gun we saw Nazh use against Nicki Sauvage in the newspaper clippings in Mistborn era 2, the Threnodites do eventually learn to more than avoid angering Shades or use silver against them. 

    Right. But Nazh tells us that shadows are ancient. The people of the Ire suggest that shadows can fulfill certain tasks. So what did shadows do in the Homeland?


  15. 57 minutes ago, Honorless said:

    Those were just the guards established by Iadon, after the Reod, to contain those taken by the Shaod.

    They were also policing the highways.

    57 minutes ago, Honorless said:

    True, they would still need an internal system of justice. The novel is set post-Reod though, so unless book 2 delves into this deeper, anything would just be speculation.

    Wait a minute... That's it! Banishment is the perfect punishment. Remember that Elantrians are boosted by the city of Elantris. The further away from that they are, the weaker they'd get. Banishing an Elantrian from Arelon could work as long as the accused doesn't have too much support from the other Elantrians, I think.

    So, you send them where exactly? If it is close, they still are very powerful. If you send them far enough, they will end up in Derethi lands. Do you really want to send people who know a lot into an enemy empire?


  16. 14 minutes ago, Honorless said:

    I think you might be right. There was no mention of a police force existing or having existed.

    There was a highway police outside Elantris. I think tjis pattern will hold.

    14 minutes ago, Honorless said:

    Elantrians seem to have been the absolute monarchs in Arelon, as seen by the near-total collapse of their kingdom post-Reod.

    But not inside. I think Elantris have an internal and external system totally decoupled. And probably two justice systems inside Elantris. The idea of equality before the law is just anachronistic.

    14 minutes ago, Honorless said:

    But it does somehow seem that the Elantrians were more benevolent than not, with merchants and with the Shu Korath faith, though those were probably politically motivated.

    Not really, at least not fully. A life of crime just makes less sense in Elantris. The wealth of an Elantrian is to a large extent in his social capital and the Aons he knows. You cannot steal that. Also the output of an Aon depends, all things being equal, on its size. That is easy to change. Giving away a lot of the same stuff is cheap.
    Yet even if their external benevolence extends to inside Elantris, there will still be conflict. Things like murdering your neighbor because he has an affair with your wife will happen and Elantris needs to deal with it.

    14 minutes ago, Honorless said:

    The benevolence could be an effect of Devotion having implemented some method for the Shaod. Though the Ire seem counter to this example, as do multiple mentions of the system being random.

    I don't think the Elantrians would agree to a whipping post being put up in their city. Too much humiliation involved, not only is that painful, it's also not politically advisable as it runs counter to projecting their power, 'godhood' and aura of benevolence.

    That is basically the point. Humiliation is the intended goal. How else do you punish an Elantrian? You cannot use the death penalty for lesser crime, like, if we stay in the example, a man just beating up his neighbor. You could declare them outlaw. That is a pretty bad idea. A band of outlaw Elantrians roaming Arelon is a nightmare. What else is there?

    You may note that in countries on Earth things like fines and community service is used. That falls short. For fines you need to have money. For community service and even jail terms, you need to be able to keep people imprisoned. Long term imprisonment is impractical for Elantrians. So what do you do?


  17. 3 hours ago, Calderis said:

    My take on this fight is and always has been, TLR wins on his own and every other factor for Scadrial is just more weight on the scales.

    I am afraid I have to disagree. The reason is best eplained quoting Adolin: 'A Shardbearer cannot hold ground.' Of course TLR is not literally one of them. But he is stll one man. He cannot be everywhere.

    Thus I would say that this battle is far from certain. But the Rodharans have an advantage in

    • leaderhip
    • aerial combat
    • logistic
    • combat engineering

    These factors together should allow them to win after many years by attrition alone. They will burn fields and collapse mines until the Scadrians run out of supplies, mainly food and metals.

    3 hours ago, Calderis said:

    A shardblade is still going to have heft. Especially with 6 feet of fulcrum 

    It doesn't have them. You need to look at the center of mass. You'd better emulate Syl and go for a spear. It can be wielded better with two hands and be thrown.