Fanghur Rahl

That’s my headcanon, at least in terms of a great fanfic idea.

I just wanna say, now that we know we’ll be getting some Lirin POVs, and Brandon’s cryptic ‘child of Tanavast’ WOB, I’m really excited!

The Shard possibilities I like most are Jealousy, Objectivity, and Inspiration.

Wouldn’t Devotion then have that same ability only in her case inspiring love?

The problem with that is that it would presumably go both ways. If Odium’s intent ‘infects’ those of his targets, the same should also be true in reverse.

Ah, gotcha. Sorry about that. Either way though, Green Hoodie put the argument against that better than I did. Something very significant happened to Jasnah during that scene with regards to her progression as a radiant. I am as close to 100% certain of that as it’s possible to get. There’s no way that Brandon would’ve written it like that if he didn’t intend it to be something extremely significant

Did I misunderstand you? Didn’t you mean to say that you thought she was passed her 4th ideal (which can only mean the 5th since that the only one left) because you think we saw her summoning her plate? If that’s not what you were trying to imply, then I apologize for misunderstanding you. But that’s what it sounded like to me.

It is if we would have expected to have said evidence but in fact don’t. But I’ll grant you with that certainly not conclusive one way or the other. My original point was just that the argument you put forward for why you think that it was the fifth ideal rather than the fourth is a nonstarter since Radiants receive their plate at the 4th ideal, not the 5th. Or at least that’s the case with the Windrunners. My guess is that it’s probably the same for all the Orders.

This is Jasnah we’re talking about RShara, what else would we expect from her? Literally the only time in the entire series post-Gavilar’s death when we see her as anything even close to not completely composed and in control is during the Renarin scene. Presumably she knew that upon swearing the ideal she would be able to summon the Plate, and I’m sure throughout her life she’s extensively studied the literature on Shardplate, so she’d have a pretty good idea what to expect.

Radiants gain access to their Plate upon swearing their 4th ideal, not their 5th. So it would make complete sense for us to have seen evidence of Jasnah summoning/dismissing it if she had just sworn her fourth ideal, as I believe that she had. But prior to that moment there is literally zero evidence that she ever had access to her plate, including in at least one situation in which it absolutely could’ve been useful, namely when they were attacked by the Ghostbloods on the ship. So I’m not quite sure why you’re putting this forth as evidence against my theory, when the reality is that if anything it’s completely expected under it.

Wait a minute, how would that work? Elantris is literally a physical city in the shape of an Aon. Is Nightblood supposed to black hole the entire city?

What can I say? Most of my posts there have been going nearly viral lately; I’m building a bit of a reputation. lol.

That’s what? Your fourth time today? Your passion for disagreeing with my theory impresses me. xD. In all seriousness though, I accept that it’s at least possible that you’re correct and her sparing Renarin was actually the impetus for her 5th ideal, even though I absolutely hate that possibility for reasons that I’ve said before.

If they drew it within Elantris, would the city itself count as an Aon?

@Calderis Is that more or less an accurate description of how Elantris works?

As I understand it, Elantris can essentially be thought of as a city-sized conduit directly to the Dor, and Elantrians channel this through their bodies. Which is why after Raoden teleported away from Elantris, his power in AonDor was dramatically reduced, because there he could only channel as much of the Dor as his body could obtain on its own. At least that’s how I interpreted how it works, but for all I know that could be completely wrong though.

I’ve mentioned this a couple times on the Discord, but I just wanted to put it here as well. To me, the Elsecallers really seem to give off a vibe of being a very knowledge and logic-oriented Order of Radiants, at least if Jasnah is anything approaching a representative member of the Order. So that being said, I strongly suspect that at the end of Oathbringer, Jasnah swears her fourth ideal (or maybe her 5th, though I’d be really irritated at Brandon), and what's more, I also have a theory as to what it was, at least generally. Based on hints we've gotten about the Windrunner 4th oath from the gem archive, it seems that 4th ideals may generally be a significant shake-up from the previous three, with the Windrunners' presumably having something to do with it being okay to not be able to protect people under certain circumstances. Well, if that trend holds true for Elsecallers too, and if the Elsecaller ideals regard being logical and rational in their decisions and outlook, both of which I acknowledge are assumptions at this point, but I think plausible ones, what might their 4th ideal be? To me, it seems pretty obvious. Why did Jasnah not kill Renarin at the end of Oathbringer despite having every reason to suspect that he had been corrupted by Odium and was now at the very least a great danger to their cause? Because despite her knowing that it was the 'logical' thing to do, her love for him stayed her hand long enough for her to realize that not all was as it seemed. I think that moment was symbolic of her realizing her 4th ideal. And so, I put forth this as a possible candidate for what it was: “I will not allow logic at the complete expense of all emotional attachment to dictate important decisions I must make.” A very common trope is that people who are hyper-logical will often do terrible things because they disregard what their 'hearts' tell them is right. So to me it makes sense for one of the Elsecaller ideals to be a counter to this danger. Anyone have any thoughts?

No, all Elantris really does is basically create an even larger ‘hole’ for the Dor to flow through.

I think they probably mean ‘the Evil’.

What does that even mean for a Shard?

Exactly, it would basically be the equivalent of plugging a power bar into itself to generate electricity. Something like that has no place in science-fantasy IMO.

Slatrification has always seemed kind of like the magic-equivalent of a perpetual motion machine to me. Sandmastery is effectively ‘powered’ by water, and yet can be used to create water in presumably greater quantities than it took to make it or it would defeat the purpose? That’s never sat well with me.

It would definitely be an awesome plot twist. Even though I don’t personally think that this particular theory is very likely, something in me just keeps screaming that Autonomy is somehow being set up as a red herring.

Okay, I mentioned this on the Discord the other day, and just on the one-in-a-billion chance I might be onto something here, I just wanna go on record with this. Is it even conceivable that the being that we know as Trell might be some insane splinter or avatar of Honor? Literally the only piece of evidence I have for this, if it even qualifies as evidence, is the name ‘Trell’. The only other place I have ever in my life heard that name before the Cosmere was minor yet narratively significant character of the same name in the Thomas Covenant series. In that series, and keeping spoilers to a minimum, Trell violates a sacred oath he made to do no harm and ends up going insane and psychotic as a result. Now I know that Brandon at the very least knows about this series, since he’s mentioned it, so for all I know he very well could have gotten the name from there, but I find it vanishingly unlikely that he’d go further and actually emulate the character, but not impossible I suppose. And if he is, the closest direct parallel in the Cosmere would probably be a splinter of Honor who went insane by violating an oath in some sense. Or maybe of some other Shard who a similar thing happened to. Is this even a remote possibility at this point based on what we know? Or do we know for a fact that this parallel, if it even is one, is just the name? Like I said, I think this is very unlikely.

I don’t think we know. His past is largely a mystery. And what little we do know is rather vague.