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74 Idrian Monk

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About Artemos

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  1. Very good idea. Being able to manipulate your own mass with Feruchemical iron makes waaay too much sense in this game to not be put on the to-do list.
  2. For those exact reasons you said. Feruchemical zinc does exactly what bullet time is supposed to do, with no more hoops to Push through. The Era 2 primer cubes are able to use feruchemy (when they used iron to decrease the weight of the airship), so it's within the realm of possibility.
  3. Indeed. I would have to put more important aspects of the game - physics and level design - on the backburner for a long time. The ball's physics are very straightforward, and the ball make sense in-world as an entity made to test the physics of magic. Rolling up walls/ceilings, navigating around objects, and cresting ledges take infinitely fewer hours to animate. For the foreseeable future, you're a ball.
  4. I haven't posted in this subforum before, so I thought I'd mention it here. I've been working on a game/physics demonstration that implements the physics of Allomancy. You can find a longer description (and a lot more pictures and videos) at the full post here: Let me know what you think!
  5. Last year, I began working on a game/simulation implementing the magic system of Allomancy. I made a thread several months ago to document the initial state of the game and discuss different ways to mathematically model Pushing and Pulling. I establish a lot of the physics of the game there, so I recommend you read it if you haven't already. I've worked on the project a lot over the past few months. This post will be separated into three main sections: the first, focusing on the physics; the second, focusing on the game (with an interlude for more physics); and my plans for the future. Here is the second update on the progress of Invested. The Physics In Pagerunner's famous thread, I made several simulations comparing different models of Pushing and Pulling, showing off how Pushing duels could work as well as what happens when the coin you're Pushing suddenly hits a solid wall/ground. Those simulations can be all viewed in-game, so feel free to examine them yourself and experiment with the Allomancy settings. If we assume anchors do nothing special for your Pushes, Allomancy behaves like an undamped spring. If you push off of a coin into the air, you'll oscillate up to your max height, then fall all the way back down to the ground, then back up, and so on. Changing the relationship between distance and strength doesn’t change the behavior of the system. Pushing duels work in a similar way. The 10 cubes are allomancers, anchored to the ground. Without any dampening, you get a boring spring. The only model I could find that solved both of these problems was the infamous theory that the strength of Pushes is a function of velocity. In case you haven't been following those conversations, this theory (in its most basic form) claims "the higher the relative velocity between the Allomancer and target, the weaker the Allomantic force." Pushes on anchored coins will be stronger than Pushes on unanchored coins because anchored coins are completely stationary (that is, the relative velocity between the Allomancer and target is much smaller). The flavor of this theory that works best in the game (in my opinion) reverses the effect when the relative velocity is negative, i.e. when the Allomancer and target are moving towards each other. This means that Pushes on targets flying towards you are even more stronger than Pushes on targets flying away from you. When you're falling and throw a coin down, your Push will be weak until the coin hits the ground. Then, your relative velocity will be negative, and the Allomantic force will increase significantly, giving you a "jolt" as soon as the coin hits. This is the effect we see in the books, so it's what I have enabled by default in the game. With this model, Allomancers stabilize near their maximum height, rather than oscillate about it: Changing the constant used in the calculation of this velocity factor makes the system more critically/under-damped: Watch how duels play out. I've also unanchored the Allomancers, and this looks a lot more like how I envision Pushing duels in the books. The strength of the Allomancer is important, but weight determines who will move in the end. Again, you can experiment with these settings at any moment. The Game The player is a "primer sphere" - an Allomechanical construct or fabrial. It is an experimental device designed to test the limits of Scadrian magic. The sphere's mechanical nature gives it full control of its body and moment, allowing it to roll across surfaces and jump. This is enhanced by the first metal the sphere can burn: pewter. This is used for sprinting and pewter-jumping. By passively burning pewter, the sphere exerts a greater force while moving, allowing it to better anchor itself or move while Pushing and Pulling. While burning pewter and jumping, the sphere jumps further in that direction and can jump off or up walls or kick away small objects. Secondly, the primer sphere can burn iron and steel. Passively burning either of these metals reveals all nearby sources of metals. The wider the line, the heavier the source. The brighter the line, the stronger the potential Push on that metal. The sphere can "Pull-target" and "Push-target" one or more metals at once. When a metal is Pull-targeted, it can be Pulled on - likewise for Push-targets and Pushing. (Interlude: physics) After all the calculations are done, the player has some Allomantic Force they exert on the target. The mass of iron or steel burned is directly proportional to the net force they exert. If you're pushing with 1000N of force, you're burning 1000mg, or 1g, of iron every second. There's actually a WoB that mildly contradicts this: according to Brandon, metal burning speed is proportional to power drawn, not force. There are two reasons for why I make burn rate proportional to force. First, I can't be sure if Brandon is talking about "power" with the definition used in physics (i.e. a change in energy over time). If not, then there's nothing to worry about; the novels are wobbly enough to not be sure how precisely metals are burned. Still, in the future, I might shift things around to have all calculations work around power/energy rather than force, but the former is harder to calculate than the latter. My college-level textbook only talks about power in regards to applying a force to an object such that it moves at a constant velocity, so the math would get… difficult. I'm working on a model called "Distributed Power" based off of Pagerunner's model 3 that does something similar to this, but it's a work in progress. The main difference between force and power (in this context) is that power is a function of velocity; but, if we're using the Exponential with Velocity model, force still changes with velocity, just with a different relationship. There's potential for a fair bit of discussion in regards to this. The second, more important reason for making burn rate a function of force is reduce obfuscation - if you're consistently Pushing with 1000N, you know you're losing exactly 1g of steel every second. If you have only 10g of steel left, your intelligent lizard brain can figure out how long you can keep up that push. This relationship is more intuitive for the player, and changing this to power would lose that clarity. (end interlude) It wouldn't be Mistborn if you couldn't throw coins. You can toss coins. If you Push while doing this, you'll fire coins directly towards the crosshair. Holding "jump" while tossing a coin will throw it downward, useful for cruising above the ground or a smooth landing. There's also a "Coinshot mode." With this, holding down Push (right-click) and pressing Pull (left-click) will instead throw a coin. This makes throwing coins work more like a conventional FPS where the LMB fires bullets. This (along with all of the controls, I guess) is a WIP. There are a few scenes for the player to play around in: a tutorial and several sandboxes (as well as the Sandbox, which has some fun zero-gravity targets). cracks knuckles cries in GTX 965M Turns On Motion Blur it's gamer time (recorded back when I only had my laptop at school) There is an assortment of other videos here. The Future We've talked a lot about Newton's third law a lot, but let's take a look at Sanderson's third law: "Expand on what you have already, before you add something new." Better ways of throwing coins Changing between semi-automatic and fully-automatic coin-throwing Throwing multiple coins in different patterns Oftentimes in the books, you see Mistborn throwing a "spray" of coins at an enemy like a shotgun blast. Pewter From the start, my plan with pewter was for it to work like a shield in other games, where burning it will prevent you directly losing health. Once health actually becomes a thing, pewter will serve this purpose. HUD General polish is needed. It should be more clear when metal reserves are refilled, coins are picked up, on-screen text changes, etc. Sound The game's completely mute at the moment. I have little experience with sound design and production, so having a meaningful sound system is still a ways away. Controls I've been living in my own bubble, so I've grown accustomed my choice in keybinds. I am absolutely certain think that they're not the most intuitive. If you play the game, please let me know which controls make sense and which ones don't. Argent threw in the idea of using bullet time (or, perhaps, Feruchemical zinc time) for steel and iron. It would help a lot to make Pushing, Pulling, and target selection easier. In general, make target selection better. When you're surrounded by metal objects, there is a lot of visual clutter on the screen. I need to make a better system of prioritizing target selection so that you can say "I want to choose this target" and not accidentally select a target in front of or behind it. I definitely plan on adding macros/techniques for Pushing and Pulling. Vin's Horseshoe Wheel is one example. What I call the "centrifuge" is another - Pulling an object such that it orbits around your body, then releasing it such that it flies in the targeted direction. Lurchers never got their fair share of offensive combat in the books, so I want to show how formidable they can be, with a spicy little feedback loop or two. Other Allomantic metals Tin: zooming in, informative HUD elements about the environment, dispelling mists/visible stars in Luthadel. Bronze: see nearby sources of kinetic Investiture, such as puzzle elements or enemies that would try to Push on you. My requests for you: Play the game! You can download it from my GitHub. What controls make the most sense for you? What bugs and physics kinks do you find? Sanderson's 0th law says to err on the side of awesome. What should I add that would be fun? Mistborn is a fantasy novel, after all - so what are your fantasies for Allomancy in a game?
  6. Because TLR made himself a mistborn during his Ascension, I doubt he would make himself any weaker than any theoretical lerasium mistborn who burned every bead. If Allomancy isn't the only thing on the table, TLR is orders of magnitude more powerful than any other mistborn due to his feruchemy and compounding.
  7. This was my impression as well, that the lines were the manifestations of Connection between you and the metals. Burning iron and steel gives you the power to see them. In Secret History, when Kelsier smashes the Ire's orb and starts to Ascend, he sees a little bit of the Spiritual: (bolding mine) And later on: It's not a perfectly sound argument, but it feels very right to me. Edit: In my brief search, I can't find anything in HoA where Vin sees these lines after Ascending. Let me know if I'm wrong. There's an argument to be made that Kell sees those lines because of the Connection between Preservation, Kell, and everything on Scadrial.
  8. I think I get it, thanks for the visual. The counter force is how much the Push is resisted - it would be higher for a heavy anchored Allomancer than a light unanchored one, yeah? Thought experiment time: consider the following two scenarios with your model: 1. The same scenario you described, where a weaker Inquisitor Pushes on a coin (with 1A) Pushed by a stronger Elend (with 5A) 2. A similar scenario, where a weaker Inquisitor Pushes on a coin (with 1A)... but instead of using Allomancy, Elend runs up, grabs the coin, and physically pushed on it with the same 5A force as before using his hands and body instead of Allomancy. He's still just as anchored as before, but now, the force acting on the coin is coming directly from Elend's hand, not his Steelpush. From the Inquisitor's perspective, is the force he feels any different? In both cases, the Inquisitor's Push is resisted equally; is it only because there is a blue line connecting Elend to the coin to the Inquisitor that Elend's counter force is transmitted to the Inquisitor? I feel like the two scenarios should be identical from the Inquisitor's perspective, but I'm interested in hearing your thoughts.
  9. Is there anything special happening with the magic when two allomancers are pushing on the same object against each other?Or are we talking about simply the natural effect of two people applying a force to the same object, with one person being stronger than the other? Here's what I think you're trying to say: when two Allomancers (one stronger than the other) Push on an object, the force that the stronger one exerts on the object is transferred to the weaker one. Is that right? Also, by weight do you mean mass or how well anchored you are to the ground? Just to see if it helps with the discussion, what do you think of this simulation of two allomancers pushing on an object between them? Does it describe what you think should happen when two allomancers with different strengths/masses push on the same object?
  10. I think I'm misunderstanding, what do you mean by counter-forces? If the force between the Allomancer and object are even, then why would one be weaker? Or is the counter-force something else? I agree that iron/steelsight is a matter of Connection and perception.
  11. That's a very good point. I'll try to think about that more.
  12. You're absolutely right. Brandon didn't write his books with any exact mathematical model in mind. The Rule of Cool was by far the most important law for him. Still, as fans, we like to discuss what he's created. Compared to magic (hard and soft alike) in the rest of fantasy, Pushing and Pulling are a rare case where we even have a chance to describe magic with real-world physics. So, we do it. Because it's fun. I didn't read this as, "there is no force." Rather, "you don't decide the force; you increase the distance between yourself and the target, which manifests as a force." It's just that you can't directly correlate a force with a change in distance (rather than an acceleration). That's why the force is the "result, not the cause." Really, the idea of a force being a "cause" versus a "result" is kind of arbitrary in real-world physics, but dealing with magically increasing distance between two objects makes it a necessary distinction, I think. There might be some crazy space-time-bending analogue in the same vein as the Alcubierre drive. I don't know. That's beyond my level, and probably Brandon's, too.
  13. Good theory, I like it a lot. The long pole analogy is a great visualizer. It reminds me of the theory that Pushes try to increase the speeds/energies of the target and Allomancer (I think that first popped up with Pagerunner's Model 3). You've probably already read it, but works like this in my interpretation: Burning steel gives the Allomancer the literal power of Preservation, that is, the ability to add (kinetic) energy to a system over time. Following conservation of energy and momentum, this kinetic energy results in an increase in velocities between the Allomancer and target, depending on their masses. If the target can't move, the Allomancer speeds up as it gains the target's unused energy (vice-versa for an anchored Allomancer) If both Allomancer and target are anchored, then, uh... apply... so anyways the main difference is that you propose the increase in distance, whereas the other theory frames itself more in terms of velocities and acceleration. I think the most important thing you've said that force is a result, not the cause. Even if both the Allomancer and target are anchored, as long as the Allomancer is Pushing, the Push will still try to increase the distance - which still manifests as a force. That could be applied to the other theory: The power "added" to a system where neither the Allomancer or target can move will at least try to do the work that would otherwise be done. The one thing that nags me is correlating distance with force. Forces are inherently separate from distance - they only deal with changing velocity. That's semantics though. Like many of the models for Allomancy, it works sufficiently well. My only other thing to add: This maximum speed would have to be inversely proportional to the mass of the target. Coins move fast, iron bars move slow. Do you mean "producing space" in an Alcubierre drive-sort of way? I guess this falls back to increasing distance ⇒ a force not well-represented by real-world physics. Applying a force for a distance (i.e. work) signifies an addition of energy, but a force itself is only ever caused by a change in velocity, not position.
  14. Oathbringer spoilers:
  15. The recent Shardcast episode focused on TLR and gave several good examples why people compare the two, so that's why people may be talking about it recently. What are your examples of this? This only one I can think of was his opinion of Elend. For the most part, Kelsier was very consistent in his hatred of the nobility. Similarly, Rashek hated the Khlenni, calling them oppressors of his people. Brandon has said that Kelsier would be the villain in another story. Keslier is extremely apathetic towards nobles and also very arrogant, I'd say. Kelsier, too, was very charismatic.