The Harlem Worldhoppers

I was just wondering what songs or song titles do you feel would fit the characters we have come to love. I'll start: Vasher: Every breath you take Kaladin: Sound of Silence Nightblood: Don't stop me now Let's continue this in the comments below

I was wondering why there was a lack of Rlain in the second half of oathbringer given that the other squires got quite a bit of coverage and according to Peter Ahsltrom this was intentional on Brandon's part. I believe that during his absence, Rlain has made contact with surviving listeners on the shattered plains. He will be key to uniting the humans and parsh people similarly to Dalinar uniting humans together. If the third godspren is in urithuru then there is a real possibility that Rlain becomes a bondsmith. If the third godspren is slumbering as the storm father says he is then maybe Rlain's efforts will awaken it similarly to Syl finding Kaladin. What do you guys think? Any theories on who/where/why is the sibling?

Keep in mind that this is all speculation. Below are some relevant WoB's which I will dive into later 1. Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] The Ghostbloods. Are they Kelsier's new crew? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] Oh, good question. Do I wanna answer this or not? I'm gonna RAFO this one. Yeah, we're gonna RAFO this one. Billy Todd [PENDING REVIEW] Have there been interactions between Kelsier and the Ghostbloods? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] I will RAFO that. 2. ccstat If Kelsier (when Vin knew him) were to join one of the Rosharan secret societies, which one would he choose? Brandon Sanderson He would become part of the Ghostbloods, most likely, and would be in charge of them within a year. source source 3. Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] Yes, or no. With all of the cosmere books that have been put out, do we have enough information to deduce the Ghostbloods' motives? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] Ummm... *laugher* I would say yes, but it's not like you are a fool if you haven't gotten it. Robert Jordan once answered a question like this saying, "Well, the answer should be intuitively obvious to the casual observer." Which I never thought was fair. Like, no, it was not. Szeth, some people guessed it. And some people will guess this. A lot of the foreshadowing in my books, it's this weird thing where, when you do proper foreshadowing, and then people have three years between books, they're gonna figure some things out. Which presents a really interesting challenge to me as a writer, because, like, there are big things that get revealed in Oathbringer, that people who have been steeped in the world for the last seven years... they kinda knew this would happen. We get the beta readers, and they're like, "So? Doesn't everyone know that?" But at the same time, the casual reader, beta readers were like "Holy cow! This is a huge revelation!" And books need to work both for the person who has been really steeped in it, and the person who's reading along that maybe doesn't want to go get all the spoilers from all the fan guessing. So it is this weird balancing act that, as a writer, you have to perform, particularly with the longer books in the longer series, where you want to make sure they're engaging to the hardcore fan, but not overwhelming to the person who maybe hasn't reread the books since the last one came out. And I don't know that I have that balance figured out, but it is something I think about a lot... source Kelsier's motivations post Secret History: After his interactions with Khriss and Nazh in Secret History, Kelsier realises just how little he really knows. Kelsier would see this ignorance as a weakness he must overcome, as to rise to the top he must acquire knowledge. Kelsier's conversation with Spook at the end of Secret History illustrate his quest to pursue knowledge of the cosmere. “Now, don’t be like that,” Kelsier said. “Our work is important. Vital. We’re going to unravel the mysteries of the universe. The cosmere, as it is called.” “It’s a big, big place out there, kid,” Kelsier said. “Bigger than I ever knew. Ignorance almost lost us everything. I’m not going to let that happen again.” He tapped at Spook’s ear. “While dead, I had an opportunity. My mind expanded, and I learned some things. My focus wasn’t on these spikes; I think I could have worked it all out, if it had been. I still learned enough to be dangerous, and the two of us are going to figure the rest out.” If there is one thing we know about Kelsier, it is that he compulsively meddles. He would not be content to swear an oath of non-interference like the 17th shard members. We know from a WoB that the 17th shard and ghostbloods do not work together. Furthermore, Iyatil has South Scadrian ancestry and was a former member of the 17th shard. It is plausible that she converted to the ghostbloods after a little persuasion from the god figure of her ancestors. So the 17th shard does not fit Kelsier, leaving the ghostbloods as the only known worldhopper organisation with a similar agenda. We know that Kelsier always feels the need to operate a crew. This is a constant between pre-Final Empire and post-Final Empire Kelsier, as shown when he treats Preservation/Fuzz as a crew member after determining his goal was to stop ruin and also at the end of Secret History when he recruits Spook. It is highly probable, then, that Kelsier post-Secret History has founded a new crew which is the ghostbloods. So what exactly are the ghostbloods up to? First of all, a minor piece of evidence linking the ghostbloods to Kelsier is the name of the organisation. Ghost= cognitive shadow, Blood= hemallurgy Now, as shown above, Kelsier appears to be on a quest to gather cosmere knowledge. In Mraize's basement we see artifacts from many worlds, including a knife from Threnody (possibly the knife which Nazh gave to Kelsier in Secret History), a vial of white sand, a dye flower from Nalthis (tears of Edgli), possibly Royal Idrian locks and in a later scene we see Mraize with an aviar. This shows that the ghostbloods are collecting investiture related artifacts from numerous shardworlds. The collection of these artifacts would tie into Kelsier's pursuit of cosmeric knowledge. Here's where things get a little crazy. I believe that Sja Anat has known Shallan since she was a child and is responsible for her forming a nahel bond so early in life before everything fell apart. 4. Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] Was Shallan's family, during her childhood, being influenced by an Unmade? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] Um, yes. Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] Was it <the corrupt...>? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] I'll RAFO that, but yes, there is some external influence there. source 5. Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] Why don't you have to say the words if you're just bonding a Cryptic? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] Every Order's First Oath is the same. Then the Second Oaths for the Cryptics go into truths, but everybody says the First Oath the same regardless of Order. Which should raise the question of... Questioner [PENDING REVIEW] Did [Shallan] say it when she was a teeny-weeny, like in the cradle? Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW] That should raise a question. She wasn't teeny-weeny, but it should raise a question there. source This would tie in with the ghostbloods interest in Sja Anat, as she may be able to grant them nahel bonds in a similar fashion. This would add to their investiture collection. I see the situation as being similar to Hoid collecting investiture from different sources, though the end goals likely differ drastically. 6. Questioner How would - just really generally - the Ghostbloods react if they found or met Hoid? Brandon Sanderson (laughs) They... Some people among them know of him. Questioner So they know he's around. Brandon Sanderson Some of them do, not everybody. But they are aware of his existence. At least in lore, they don't always... Not all of them have connected the King's Wit to this person's lore, does that make sense? So what would they know? They'd probably want to get him and interrogate him. They would want to know what he knows, but he is really slippery and it's hard to get out of him what he knows. source Conclusion: There is a realistic possibility that Kelsier has at least had involvement with the ghostbloods. This could potentially set up conflict between Hoid and Kelsier as they would have similar pursuits and really don't get along very well. We know that Secret History was in the works from as early as 2006 so Brandon clearly felt like he had not finished telling Kelsier's story. Maybe Shallan will finally meet the mysterious Thaidakar with heavily scarred arms.

I just want to belatedly congratulate you @Aon Ene. Maybe we'll face off again in a future tournament

I don't really see this ship leaving the harbour but plenty of the arguments here hold merit. Something else to consider is that Elhokar's death and Gavinor's status as an orphan could be an area where Jasnah and Kaladin find common ground. Kaladin likely feels somewhat responsible for Gavinor's wellbeing as he failed to save his father while Jasnah values her family above all else and may cling to the last living connection she has to her brother. Of course, this same argument could be used to develop a close friendship rather than a romantic relationship.

Intro: Yeah the name's Moash (That's a Listener name) I'm here to drop bars and put you lot to shame People can despise me, hate me, deride me But none of you can fulfill your end of the rivalry Kelsier: You think you're so tough, huh? You're full of crap Rashek killed you with barely a slap Yet still you refuse to take your nap Let this be a warning to you, Survivor I respect you as much as my old slave driver And that dull miser who drove me to yawn Is still more interesting than you, Mistborn. You're a Shadow of what you used to be, Sovereign And with my Surges I'll be hovering Over your body as they dump you in a coffin Odium: How can a legendary god of hatred Ever sink to become so frustrated? Maybe in your haste you were easily manipulated By the very forces you so casually underestimated You seek to use me as just another tool? Maybe you should go back to Shardschool Your greatest asset was just trapped in a jewel And you look at me like I'm the fool! We could get along though, hatred is our fuel You want me as your champion? Ok, cool The time is now for the old gods to rule. Amaram: Well if it isn't Amaram, the scum of the Earth! I pity the woman from whom you were birthed. You're the symbol of all that's wrong with Lighteyes And if you mess with this man you'll be in for a surprise. 'Cos you've built yourself up as a paragon of virtue And now your good rep will come back to hurt you. I'll charge you with my spear as you cower in fear while I suck in light from this sweet, sweet sphere. You think yourself a son of Honor? To me your not even a bother who probably doesn't even know his own father. To behonest your arc is kinda lame You're nothing to me but a measly stain. This is the end for you; you've met your bane. Now grovel before me and give me your pain.

I'm not trying to be argumentative here, so please excuse my tone, but most Shalladin shippers aren't trying to change Brandon's mind. They believe that the text is intentionally misdirecting readers and that he plans to subvert the marriage. The argument is whether it is all resolved and we are pointing to canonical evidence that suggests it is in fact anything but resolved. The purpose of this thread isn't to somehow convince Brandon to change his mind. He isn't the fanservice type anyway. This is the very thing being argued. Please don't tell us what topics we can't discuss. I'm here to debate if anyone wishes to express why they believe SKA is indeed done as you have said.

I think you may be correct for what it's worth. We know that all of the Heralds are insane and that they are not completely certain of themselves. Nale used to be Just and Confident. Now he follows a perversion of justice and lacks confidence in his own decision making ability. It would not surprise me if part of him subconsciously wanted someone to condemn him. This would explain why he gave Nightblood to Szeth as Nightblood would be capable of killing a Cognitive Shadow (It is confirmed to be able to kill the Fused). It also draws parallels to Szeth's own storyline where he hoped his enemies would be strong enough to kill him.

Szeth is one of my favourite characters as well. I'm really interested to read his flashback book and learn more about Shin culture and the Stone Shaman. I have been satisfied with most areas of his character arc except, as you have said, the way in which him switching sides was handled. I get that everyone had their hands full but surely Brandon could have squeezed in a scene where Jasnah or Dalinar confront him. We know there will be a one year in world timeskip between OB and book 4 so I am increasingly certain that we won't see a satisfying resolution to this issue. I have a feeling that Szeth will fight his mentor Nale in book 5 in case you were wondering @SzethIsBadAsHell

I'll take you up on that Would you rather have leg sized fingers or finger sized legs? Would you rather be teleported 50 years into the future or 50 years into the past? You bring any items currently on your body with one weeks notice. Your favourite villain has to protect you from your favourite protagonist for the next week. Who are they and do you survive? Would you rather get $10,000 upfront or $50,000 exactly 15 years from now? (Inflation is accounted for) Would you rather have a well above average ability to predict the stock market or have the ability to see one minute into the future every day?

She is in a perpetual state of willful ignorance. The question is what the consequences of this ignorance will be. She has rushed into a decision that might come back to bite her by getting married in her current mental state. I'm of the mind that the wedding in OB was intentionally glossed over in the narrative to represent how Shallan has similarly glossed over potential issues in her mind. Kaladin got to see a dark side of Shallan when she told him about her murdering her own father during the chasm sequence. That dark side of Shallan has been compartmentalised into the Veil persona which is why Kaladin treats Veil as the same individual when Veil suggests a mutiny on the ship in Shadesmar. Since Adolin first met Shallan he has only seen the false mask of the Vorin conformist Shallan, so when he sees her engage the Veil persona he recognises her as a separate individual to the one he knows, whereas Kaladin sees Veil as just another aspect of Shallan's identity which is the case in reality. By recognising the personas as unique individuals Adolin is enabling Shallan's state of willful ignorance. I don't think Shallan is currently stable enough to attempt to integrate her masks but she can only ignore the problem for so long. This is exactly what I'm trying to say. Shallan needs to integrate her personas before she can be fully committed to any relationship. A potential hitch in the road for her marriage with Adolin is that Shallan harbours romantic feelings for Kaladin and has displaced these feelings onto Veil. When she integrates her personas she will have to acknowledge that truth. You could make an argument that Adolin is giving in to societal pressures to get married. He's known as that guy who can't commit to a relationship by many in the Alethi elite. I'm not saying that Adolin doesn't love Shallan. I think he does. I also think that he is being influenced by external pressures to get married and Shallan is a suitable option for him. An issue with his marriage to Shallan is that he has barely even seen the tip of the iceberg when it comes to her problems. He knows the 'Shallan' mask, not the integrated original Shallan. I agree. Adolin enabling Shallan's self delusion is a bad thing that not enough people are acknowledging.

I know Brandon does not really like The List but if possible I would really appreciate if someone could forward a question for me as I myself will probably never get to ask them. My list of questions is as follows. Contains spoilers for Secret History.

Also important to note the use of the past tense in 'Veil did have a tendency to fawn over Kaladin Stormblessed'. This is another misdirect from Shallan as it is clear that Veil still does have a tendency to fawn over Kaladin. I think it is the best outcome that was readily available. It offers her a place of stability to work through some of her issues. I still see it as a temporary solution to her problems however as she has been anything but honest with herself and entirely dismissive of the feelings of her personas which would impede her happy relationship with Adolin.

I became far more interested in allomantic iron and steel after the scene where Wax visualised the bullet as three separate pieces and pushed on the firing pin. That implies that you could do some very interesting things by pushing on the ends of an object rather than the objects centre of mass to generate torque. I'm really looking forward to the Jasnah flashback book as well. Unfortunately it won't be until book 8 or 10 apparently As for what order of the Knights Radiant I'd be in... I think I would be a Windrunner as I aspire to become a doctor and help people that way. Well said. I think it would be best if the first Cosmere adaptation was the Mistborn trilogy as a trilogy of movies. After the Cosmere starts to gain a bit of steam there could be a more realistic chance of seeing Stormlight Archive adapted into a tv series. There's just no way you can capture all of the intricacies of Stormlight Archive in a feature length film.

Or how any vaguely bird like creature is a chicken...

Whenever things become too uncomfortable she slips back into the same avoidance habits. I personally think Shallan is yet to reach the nadir of her storyline. We know that Lightweaver ideals are based on self-awareness and truths. Shallan is not being honest with herself by identifying Veil as a separate entity. She has not been honest with Adolin about her tragic past or her involvement with the Ghostbloods. She has not been honest in regards to her feelings for Kaladin 'Veil having bad taste in men'. Throughout Oathbringer there is evidence that Shallan's bond with Pattern has been weakening. If Shallan continues down her current path she will kill Pattern... a second time. This is something that frustrates me. If they had not been in an arranged marriage situation I do not think we would have seen anything spark between them. Comparing the intimacy of the chasm scenes to the cheesiness of the 'Without you I fade' scene and the presence or absence of that spark is clear. Sidenote: To be perfectly honest my judgement around how the romance was handled is clouded by my dislike for the consistent use of arranged marriages in Brandon's works. It feels like a lazy way to write a romance as the characters are forced to find some common ground rather than sparking something naturally.

I'll do you one better: Hoid is another one of Shallan's personalities Evidence: Hoid says he started off as an idea, words on a page. You know who is creative and has a hobby surrounding pages? That's right, Shallan.

One thing I'd like to add regarding Mraize and his conversation with Shallash: The knowledge that Shallash was going around destroying depictions of herself is relatively obscure. However, the knowledge that Shallash and Taln were intimate is even more so. Mraize uses Shallash's history with Taln to ensnare her very effectively. The Ghostbloods as a worldhopper organisation appear to be far more competent than they are given credit for.

The Cosmere being adapted to the big screen. I too am extremely interested in the ghostbloods. I hope we find out more about them in the future. The magic system is great but the climate in Era 1 isn't exactly welcoming. Era 2 seems more fun. I'd be a feruchemist myself. In the modern world most lifestyles involve a lot of sitting around all day. You could store feruchemical attributes so easily. You could then use these attrubutes to compete in sports at an elite level (running the 100m in less than 2 seconds). You could absorb all the information on the internet onto a Coppermind and know everything there is to know. I really like Jasnah as well. Are you yourself an academic type or are you similar to Jasnah in other ways?

When you misuse a quote from one of the books and wonder if Ruin has been tampering with your precious hardback editions.

My impressions with Jasnah were not necessarily that she was asexual, rather she has a shopping list of priorities consisting of what she needs to do to save Roshar..... then way, way down on the bottom of that list is pursuing a relationship.

Just a heads up @Ashspren I will be unavailable on the 24th and 25th of July (Australian time) so whatever way the brackets are arranged I hope I can do it at a better time than that.

I don't know about you not being creative. It takes creativity to come up with good theories. Ironically, your self awareness regarding why you would fit as an Elsecaller is also an attribute of the Lightweavers. The orders are next to each other on the surgebinding chart I believe. Maybe you could be bonded to two spren as Brandon has stated it is entirely possible

There's the fabled memory of an Arcanist. Your ranking says Elsecaller but maybe you should be a Lightweaver with those mnemonic abilities Cal