Timothy

Maybe lack of emotion or passion? It'd go in line with what we know of Odium and the name void.

Yeah, I know. I always assumed Nohadon had a lot to do with it though, since his scene was about how not spren were as discerning as honorspren with how they granted their surges. Is that right? Now that you mentioned that I seem to remember something about soren mimicking the heralds. If the mimicking wasn't just the sword part you are right, and I think you are. Were the Heralds first, then surgedinbers and later on the oathpact? Maybe it was something like: Humans invade without bonding spren. Humans win. The fused appear. Heralds? Spren join humans? Oathpact Does this timeline make more sense if the Heralds came first? The last three all have big ???. Did the heralds become Heralds before or after the Fused? I'm inclined to believe that they only became Heralds to stop the Fused, but the name Herald of the Almighty makes me believe they might have been chosen before that. I don't know whether the oathpact was before or after the spren mimicked the Heralds either.

No, I don't know if that was surgebinding too. What I meant was that on roshar people first became surgebinders without many checks on them, it wasn't until Nohadon that the orders as we know them were formed.

Yeah, that's why I said that Heralds predate the orders, not surgebinding.

In WoK Adolin mentions that his grandfather had dementia and compares it to what Dalinar is going through with his visions. Considering the poor knowledge Rosharans have about mental health I wonder if this might be important later on. We don't know anything about either of his grandparents, Evi and Toh came alone and I think that Dalinar only ever mentions his parents when talking about his training and traditions. I wonder if Dalinar's father was the oen to receive the visions before Gavilar.

I don't think they weren't heralds back then. They only turned to Honor later on and Ash might have been born on Roshar. Didn't the stormfather say that they predate the radiant orders? Everyone sans Ash probably had access to the surges via the shin magic. You might be right about the Dawncities though, we don't know who made them and it might have been the humans.

On the way of kings syl says that all humans are discord and all spren are basically the same individual and that there's harmony in that. I wonder if this is just a fun easter egg showing how the intents are everywhere or whether it could be something else.

Yeah, a centralization by Jasnah where they adopt his whole family as a kholin branch.

They could just adopt him as a Kholin and solve the problem that way. Maybe give him Sadea's lands and have him rule them as a Kholin, that way solving two problems as one. That way they'd have another male to use as marriage fodder to forge pacts and she won't need to marry someone yet.

Kaladin and Moash (Vyre now). When Odium isn't leeching his emotions all Moash thinks of is what Kaladin would do and Kal, Kal, Kal, Kal, Kal, Kal etc etc etc. His bridge four salute means that he still cares for Kal in a twisted way too. The feelings obviously aren't reciprocated, which is sad ):

It was stated in the dawnchant that when the humans came from Ashyn and after they were given shinovar that the spren started going over to them and somehow in the end they ended up with honor as their god. What if Cultivation somehow felt that Honor betrayed her and the singers, who seem to lean more towards cultivation with their biology, and took some direct part in killing off Honor? We know from a WoB that she did help Honor when Odium came over, but maybe this was before he sided with humans and they accepted him as their dog? Maybe after Honor and Cultivation managed to lock Odium into the system (by making him invest himself on braize?) they had a falling out, which is why she isn't taking a direct role in helping the radiants, who seem to lean more towards honor. It feels weird that while the radiants have spren from both H and C their orders are based around the heralds, who are definitely from honnor. The only other significant number I can think of aside from ten and nine is four, but I don't see how it fits with the other patterns. Bridge four always getting target over the rest seems more than just a coincidence (in japan four is the number of death) and by putting on the tinfoil hat maybe we could argue that they were being cultivated that way by weeding out the weak and cultivating bridge four as a whole, but I don't think it's very solid. Number ten goes for the whole Roshar system sans Braize, so maybe it's not Tenevast's number but the H and C combined number? Fabrials seem to work with the ten types of gems too, which makes two magic systems work with ten and one with nine. To summarize, what if Honor siding with the invading humans over the singers led to a confrontation between him and the humans and Cultivation and the singers? Could this have been the first Desolation? The timeline could work like this: Humans arrive from Ashyn and are granted land. Raze goes with them. Honor and C manage to lock Raze in Blaze. Humans start getting access to the surges by bonding spren. Honor sides with them and they invade. Cultivation stays with the singers. Humans conquer urithiru. The singers lose and Cultivation stops being close to Honor. Odium offers to help the singers. They accept and a second desolation starts. The human leaders plus Taln become Heralds to stop the fused. Humans conquer most of the main continent and start fighting each other. Third desolation comes and the radiant orders are formed. Nohadon stuffs. ????????????????????????????????????????? The oathpact is broken. Tanavast starts dying. False desolation. ???????????????????????????????????????? Cultivation and Odium start plotting against each other ???????????????????????????????????????? Current timeline. ???????????????????????????????????????? Hoid gets away with something and finds happiness. ????????????????????????????????????????

Using stormlight has been described as making the user want to move, act and on the second WoK chapter I think Szeth describes the sensation as "fury". Could some of the radiants of old have become addicted to stormlight? What about the surgebinders before Nohadon, where there weren't as many limits? It'd be interesting if Teft or someone else saw stormlight as an addiction. On a side not, it's ironic that stormlight, which is supposedly from Honor, makes people more willing to act or passionate, while the shard of hate who mistakenly labels himself as Passion takes the passion out of his servants and leaves then a void instead.

This is the WoK backcover text: " I long for the days before the Last Desolation. The age before the Heralds abandoned us and the Knights Radiant turned against us. A time when there was still magic in the world and honor in the hearts of men. The world became ours, and we lost it. Nothing, it appears, is more challenging to the souls of men than victory itself. Or was that victory an illusion all along? Did our enemies realize that the harder they fought, the stronger we resisted? Perhaps they saw that the heat and the hammer only make for a better grade of sword. But ignore the steel long enough, and it will eventually rust away. There are four whom we watch. The first is the surgeon, forced to put aside healing to become a soldier in the most brutal war of our time. The second is the assassin, a murderer who weeps as he kills. The third is the liar, a young woman who wears a scholar's mantle over the heart of a thief. The last is the highprince, a warlord whose eyes have opened to the past as his thirst for battle wanes. The world can change. Surgebinding and Shardwielding can return; the magics of ancient days can become ours again. These four people are key. One of them may redeem us. And one of them will destroy us." While it might seem obvious at first glance that this means using shardblades and shardplate that doens't make too much sense in the context of the first book, considering shardblades are known by everyone and common among the extremely wealthy. It's true that this extends mostly to Alethkar and that other countries don't have many blade, but I still don't think that's reason enough to call blades "magics of ancient days". I propose that what the Aimians really meant is that the use of the Dawnshards will return, since it's the only magic we know that is both lost and involves the word shard.

Nah, it was pretty dumb and I put the /jk in white font.

It was a joke, I don't think we know enough to confirm anything. Fabrials are most likely the missing magic, with the other two being Voidbinding and Surgebinding. I mentioned it because I think there's a good chance they work in similar ways or might even be a blade fabrial, considering fabrials are based around gemstones.