Elandera

While this may be true, remember this is a faction game. For elims to V!read you, they also have to discount that the other faction may have converted you.

I think I figured out what bothered me so much. I know there are other legitimate reasons for suspicions against me (my support of Archer was rather unfortunate...) but among some players, there seems to be a perception that because I suddenly became active, I must have been converted. Please be careful moving forward with this idea. We sit here condemning low activity, then as soon as one player goes from low activity to trying (albeit with a lot of mistaken perceptions due to previous low activity) they get accused of being converted. If someone is only tangentially following the thread and getting the impression that's what my exe is about, they lose all incentive to join again. I'm not saying this as a way to talk people out, as there are other reasons. Just a cautionary tale for the village moving forward.

Sorry. I did not mean for that to be so emotional. It's been a rough week.

I'm sorry, but I just don't have the time or energy. I'm barely keeping up with the game and have been camped on Silverlight the entire time because I know I don't have the capacity to follow docs on top of the thread. I made the post while attempting to multitask my job, so no, I couldn't go dig into what times you logged into the server. I don't even have the energy to fight my exe. I was just trying to answer Kas's question. I will say, though, the fact the game is basically Roshar v. Everyone else is a bit off-putting, especially for someone like me who has not left Silverlight because I know I can't follow more than the thread.

AC? After reading, TBB is certainly shortlisted for my Hoid vote. Araris is there too as you do make good points about that. But the lack of Hoid involvement in a counter Archer wagon, combined with no more breached shards has me headscratching.

Or it was that I actually had time/motivation to begin putting more active work into the game, combined with an acknowledgement that I didn't want to be a low active player because of its detrimental impacts on the rest of the village. And sorry my activity dipped over the weekend. I had several things going on and only those two days with my husband before he left for another week. It also allowed me a little time to think on the Archer flip and what that meant for my previous assumptions. I think he was likely the N0 or N2/3 conversion. As it's been pointed out to me and from looking again at vote records, Archer wasn't under as much pressure as I had thought, but converting him right after he was tied for exe seems very risky. Since all of my previous assumptions were wildly incorrect, I no longer trust anyone... But I'll do my best to answer you anyways and spend some time digging through posts. Looking at the players we know so far: Mat/Fifth = Khriss Faction and Archer = Hoid Faction TBB - Looking through their past posts and votes, they seem to be the most sheep-y, and therefore most suspicious. His D1 vote was first a sheep on Archer, then a sheep on DeTess, then back to Archer for self-preseration. He didn't vote at all D2. In D3, he thought about voting on Szeth after Araris mentioned his suspicion, thought about going after Xino after he got attention for his low activity elim tendencies, then finally landed on Szeth only after TJ set down the first vote. In D4, he was the fifth(?) vote on Archer, which was every vote but Archer himself at that point. Conclusion: 80% chance of being elim, mainly Hoid Faction. I don't like the voting patterns, and he only seemed to land on Archer when that was the majority vote. D1's self-preservation could be pre-conversion, or a Hoid!TBB with Archer as N0 convert, considering this: Archer never showed up after that point. Looking at it now, it looks like he was trying to get them both out of the top spot, and then the self-pres was done late enough that he was confident neither would die with the tie rules. Kasimir - While there has been a shift in your playstyle this game, it was an expected one (both for how you started and where you are now). I place you as my most confident village read because you went after both Archer and Mat pretty hard. There's no way you'd have sussed Mat that hard if you were Team Khriss, and I doubt you would have eviscerated my vote on Wizard quite so much if you were Team Hoid. Drake - No clue, honestly. Player history wise, especially with Fifth, I think, he'd make a good conversion target, but I can't get a good read. They haven't voted at all this game (please correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't find a vote), which makes me lean non-village. But the lack of commitment gives me Autonomy vibes more than Hoid Faction vibes. Definitely not Khriss Faction with the shot at Mat last night. DeTess - I really want to trust her because she's had great contributions and analysis. Definitely not Hoid Faction, as she was consistent about her suspicion of Archer (and followed through with it). Possible Khriss Faction with their v!read on Mat most of the game, but that's pretty low because she was pretty blatant about calling out his joining me on Wizard. Maybe autonomy? But I still think Drake fits that style better. So I think I land at another village read with DeTess.

Oh, that was because my AI read of Xino came from the end of D2, which I hadn't gotten to rereading for that post. Though I still wouldn't mind, I also have to trust some of the people I read as village and who are better at tracking and remembering posts than me, all of whom seemed to agree on a v!Szeth. This is, after all, a team game where majority opinions matter, and it would be foolish of me to not listen.

Well, sorry everyone for yesterday. Until Archer's hop to TBB, I honestly didn't read him as elim. Part of me wonders if that last vote was attempted distancing since his exe was a forgone conclusion. I'm not sure how those were inconsistent arguments. If all conversions were perfect, elim teams would have been full D3. I don't believe they were, considering no new shards broke containment N3. Which would suggest the earliest for full elim teams was D4, hence my argument that D4 was the best statistically for finding an elim, even at random. But please, if my math is wrong, let me know. It's never been a strong suit (re: balance of protection/kills in LG94).

I am. For me to feel comfortable with the rules and my role, it took not just understanding how I could siphon, but what it took to win and stop the elims from winning (best ones to siphon for abilities and the best ones to break from containment early). Because it's a faction game with complicated rules, it's not just "find and exe." LG94 was a good example of needing to understand how your role interacted with the rest of the rules, and I didn't want to make the same mistake as I watched. I don't have time right now to respond to everything, but I just want to say that I don't remember as well as you think I do. I hardly remember GMing e!wiz, let alone his meta for the game. It's why, aside from players I've been around since I started in SE (such as Xino), I have been avoiding making meta reasoning arguments. I am trying to do better and be more actively involved in discussion than I was early game because the last thing I want to do is be a hypocrite after what I said at the end of LG94. I appreciate you bringing up the faults in my arguments. I hadn't meant it to be a CC vote, but I see now that's essentially what it was, regardless of my intent. You do make good points about Wiz's activity. I didn't realize he'd basically disappeared, as I thought I'd remembered seeing him post more often. Also, thank you for pulling up those examples from his past games. Wizard

Not really, but I also don't like exing the ones who prompt village conversation this early and without more reason than "they're good conversion options." It does somewhat, but I can't say until I look more at her D2/3 activity. Also, I would like to point out this list is not "these are the people I want to exe" but "these are the people who fit my idea of the low profile but active enough category." I just read your point D1 about him not understanding the researcher rules being a potential point in him not being one, but my argument is that understanding the researcher role isn't as easy as it looks. It also requires a good basis of understanding of the rest of the rules to really grasp the full potential of a researcher. My reads from Archer N0 and D1 were confused villager more than anything. I also don't think he'd be quite as sloppy as to advertise that ignorance as a solo elim at the start. That's not my only belief. Yes, it's a good pool of potential targets, but some people also convert based on totally non-game-related reasons, such as wanting to be an elim with a certain player because they haven't yet. If the consensus of the game is to exe Archer, by all means, go for it. It would answer a lot of questions and it would finally resolve this question that's been around for so long. But I've seen way too many games that ended poorly because players didn't look beyond initial suspicions. I'm trying to keep options open, especially with the converted are going to be our biggest pool.

Because he was very nearly exed D1 and has been under a consistent level of suspicion since then? If I'm not mistaken, he's been debated/voted on each turn so far, even if it didn't stick. That's a big risk for an elim team wanting to play the IKYK game.

I don't believe it's the correct move, which is why I didn't pick either of you for a vote. It's worth keeping an eye on you both (hence why I put you both on the list with qualifications about profile), but your contributions outweigh those potential dangers right now. Ah. I had forgotten Turtle had admitted to not submitting an action. Also, my mental data for activity is pulling from my read of N0, the first half of D1, and the last half of D3 (the times I've actually paid attention). I remembered Turtle being fairly active in the early game, which is why they landed in the "active enough" category. I would argue that it's difficult to apply this tactic of finding conversions to D1 or D2 due to the low number of conversions at those points, which would take out Sart and Alpha as failures of this. As I stated before, I did not pursue Xino as a convert target, but a OG elim, removing him as well. Last turn was the first potential opportunity for full elim teams, which I don't think actually happened considering the lack of containment breaks. This is the first turn where we likely have all of the converts in place, when we can really be looking at good convert profiles. I don't think Archer fits that, nor does he fit OG elim, hence the suggestion to look elsewhere. Somewhere new. On a player that hasn't been looked at seriously yet, because they'd make a good convert. Yes, there has been some mild attention on Wizard, but nothing (from my memory) that was actually threatening. I just think this constant return to Archer isn't helping anyone. EDIT: To be fair, that is half of the opportunities so far to have a conversion, and 2/3 if all conversions were perfect.

Yes, and no? They had varying levels of activity. I won't pretend to know for sure about Sart. I didn't pay great attention in the early cycles (an error I am working to correct), so I'm not sure what Sart's activity/attention was. The fact he was killed fairly quickly suggests he may have been lacking in the "low profile" category. Xino was floating a little low on the "active enough" scale, but fit the low profile overall. I hadn't been looking at him as a conversion, though, but as an OG elim. And Alpha, I run into the same problem as I do with Sart in regards to he died earlier than I really started to pay attention. Which has utterly disappeared since (as well as Turtle's overall presence...) It would make them a decent late convert, I think. Especially if any of the elim teams weren't successful in their early conversions, as I suggested in my first post this turn. Don't tempt me....

You make a good point about the recent deaths. Maybe it is time to shift the profile of who we're looking into. I'm not sure what you're asking with the highlighted question. Are you asking if I think Wiz fits in that category, or if the other deaths fit in there? Other players that are low profile (not a lot of negative attention and/or attention overall) and active enough (posts consistently enough to have a presence but not make a big impact): Wizard TJ DeTess* Kasimir* Araris Turtle* DeTess and Kas are an odd case because they're more active and influential, but also have avoided basically all negative attention.

Yes, I acknowledge I also fit within this category, but I am trying to do better.