Jellomancer

You are correct that timing could be an issue, but I don't think it is insurmountable considering the fact we have seen other worldhoppers extend their lives. Do we know about when on the timeline Elantris & Emperor's Soul takes place as compared to Mistborn and Stormlight?

NOTE: This post contains some spoilers for the story "The Emperor's Soul" and the Mistborn books including Secret History I recently started rereading some of the other Cosmere books after RoW (Elantris, Mistborn, portions of Arcanum Unbounded). After reading "The Emperor's Soul" I have come to a conclusion that I sure hope is true. After the big reveal in Rhythm of War regarding Thaidakar's identity, I am convinced that Shai is going to turn up as a Ghostblood. There are a few reasons for this: 1) Shai is the perfect crew member for Kelsier - Kelsier has a penchant for gathering specialists in every arena, and no one is a greater specialist in Forging than Shai. Even beyond using the actual magical skill of Forging, she is stunningly skilled in overall forgery and subterfuge of many types that would deeply interest Kel. 2) Like Kel, Shai has issues with Hoid - We know from "The Emperor's Soul" that Shai ended up being captured in the first place because Hoid sold her out (as the Imperial Fool, aka Wit 1.0) in order to steal the Moon Scepter, a sort of key to access all of the investiture related powers on Sel. She is on a mission to hunt him down. We know Kel & Hoid also have potential unfinished business after their volatile confrontation at The Well of Ascension. The enemy of my enemy is my friend--Kel & Shai are natural allies. 3) Sel might be the easiest planet for Kel to worldhop to--or at least meet Shai from - I say "easy" with caution due to the dangerous nature of worldhopping to Sel (due to the investiture storm caused by the splinters of Devotion & Dominion in the cognitive realm), but we know from Secret History that the IRE were able to set up a base (theoretically connected to the Dor somehow--long extension cord? ) on the edge of Scadrial's portion of Shadesmar. This begs the question if Scadrial is "close" to Sel's Shadesmar. We still don't know how someone would worldhop to Sel, but it seems reasonable that either A) Kel might have figured out how to do so, B ) He at least got to Sel's Shadesmar zone (perhaps to some sort of safe haven there?), or C) Shai managed to worldhop somehow and they met elsewhere. Addendum: We know the Ghostbloods have connections on Sel. It is also significant that Mraize has a Seon which further connects them to that world. 4) They share a unique connection in their scars - It really stood out to me this time that Shai shares a unique trait with Kel--the arm scars left on her by the Bloodsealer's cuts. She was cut every single day over the course of around 90-something days. Kel's title as Lord of Scars may be a point of interesting connection with Shai. 5) She would make quite the formidable foil to Shallan - The similarities between forgery and both lightweaving & soulcasting are striking. Shai is a considerable con-artist even without Forgery, but if she & or Kel were to figure out how to overcome the connection problem with Sel (something we already know Kel is interested in and may have figured out related to the discovery of those Nicrosil excisor medallions), she might be able to access Forgery to a limited degree off-world. Shai and Shallan are both artists, both talented at disguise, and both have the ability to affect the souls of objects in different ways. With Shallan having potentially allied with Wit rather than Thaidakar, a conflict could be very interesting. 6) We know that Brandon has confirmed Shai will show up again--potentially as a worldhopper - The Cosmere has grown much more complex since some of the big reveals in Rhythm of War. Of all the various factions at work among the Cosmere-aware, the Ghostbloods seems the most likely one to match Shai's skills and personality as opposed to the 17th Shard, IRE, etc. We know she's showing up again--while anything can happen, this theory seems like a strong possibility. What are your thoughts? Any other connections (or things I totally missed)?

I have a few ideas for casting, but the thing that drew me to this thread is that I recently started watching Kim's Convenience (fantastic show!) and Simu Liu who plays Jung would make a FANTASTIC Adolin! (Image attached) The more of the show I watch, the more perfect he seems for the role--his charmer/smirky nice guy persona in that show reminds me alot of Adolin. Ever since I realized most of the characters would have an epicanthic fold, I'm always keeping an eye out for great actors that fit that description that would be fantastic for the Stormlight Archives. Other casting ideas (some already mentioned): -Dalinar - Dave Bautista, Ken Watanabe, or Temeura Morrison (Temeura would also make a very good Kadash) -Navani - Michelle Yeoh, Ming Na Wen, or Kajol -Nale - Chiwetel Ejiofar or David Oyelowo -Sadeas - Hiroyuki Samara, Benedict Wong, or Amir Khan -Jasnah - Morena Baccarin, Priyanka Chopra (in both cases, eyes are wrong, but either would nail the character) -Amaram - Rick Yune -Kaladin - Kekoa Kekumano (he played the young version of Aquaman in the film) -Taravangian - Tzi Ma -Taln - Idris Elba -Odium - Donald Sutherland comes to mind, but there are alot of good choices mentioned for this one! -Wit - This is a tougher one; for non-Roshar stuff, I'd say David Tennant, but on Roshar, I'm not sure since he looks Alethi. Taika Waititi might be a good fit? As a matter of fact, I kind of love this idea. Lopen - Michael Pena (from Ant Man) Venli - Karen Gillan

Excellent observations. I agree that catch about the languages is really good! Brandon also just released this interesting answer which confirms the "Kel-is-fully-capable-of-villainous-shenanigans" point: Javier Which of your characters do you feel is the most misunderstood by fans? Brandon Sanderson If I'm doing my job, people won't misunderstand characters. The one I usually answer on this question is Kelsier, who... Kelsier is definitely a heroic figure. He did a lot of right things. But Kelsier is much closer to being a villain than people see, because he was in the best place for him possible, which is being capable of burning something down. He is just really good at tearing stuff down, and he is a great agent of chaos in that regard, and great at coming up with masterful ways to mess up what other people are doing to get what he wants. And what he wanted in that story happened to align very well with the needs and interests of the general population, and he genuinely wants to do good and right by them. It's not like he's some antihero who is accidentally doing the right things. But he is arrogant; he is very, very driven; and he is very, very dangerous; which are a combination that could have led to disaster in other circumstances. YouTube Livestream 24 (Dec. 31, 2020)

This is a very interesting theory, even if I agree the others are correct that Rayse has already been eliminated. The thing that makes this interesting is does Cultivation know about Harmony? If so, it does seem possible she might try to "cultivate" Odium into something new by tempting him with the shard of Honor. You are right that this could result in another supershard called War. It looks like a deliberate foreshadowing move to me, even if it plays out differently.

I love a good redemption story, but I'll admit there were multiple times in this book I just wanted someone to squash him lol. My gut reaction is that I'd love to see him get his come-uppance, but if Brandon does successfully pull off a redemption story for Moash, it will probably be pretty powerful.

Ooh, a few things even though the book was very satisfying. More information on the Unmade, particularly in connection to Shallan's family. More focus on Adolin-- it felt like there were some pretty wide gaps between his scenes at times. More information about Szeth (we did get some but not very much) A cameo from Azure and more involvement from Zahel

Okay, this is a fantastic thread, and I'm joining the party late, but it seems like a lot of evidence has been presented to support the theory that Kelsier is Thaidakar. While I respect why some fans are reticent to accept this idea, it seems like the evidence for it being true is overwhelming. I wanted to take a look at the evidence presented as a whole, both what has been discussed previously and a few of my own observations. Let me know if I'm missing anything major and forgive me if this dips into ground already well-covered: Evidence for Kelsier being Thaidakar (Cosmere-Wide Spoilers Ahead!) Thaidakar's title as "Lord of Scars" seems to point strongly to Kelsier's famous wounds as the "Survivor of Hathsin". Thaidakar is described as carrying an affliction similar to the heralds. This makes sense as Kelsier is also a cognitive shadow--ironically, one whose sanity has also been tested during his imprisonment with Ruin in the Well of Ascension. It makes sense that Kel would be very interested in studying someone in his similar predicament, and considering how far-gone the heralds are mentally, I could totally see Kelsier talking himself into why this is morally acceptable. Mraize seems to indicate that Thaidakar cannot travel easily--or at least he chooses not to. This matches Kelsier's condition being tied to Scadrial. Iyatil is of Southern Scadrian descent. While the information we have suggests that she is from Silverlight (with ties to the Seventeenth Shard, which is a whole different nest of sky-eels), her ties to Southern Scadrial are significant considering that the last time we saw Kel (at the end of The Bands of Mourning), he was hanging out with Southern Scadrians who treat him as a divine figure. This tidbit is complicated by the fact that the events of Mistborn Era 2 take place after Stormlight Era 1, but the tie still works. We know from Wax's vision that Kelsier encountered the Southern Scadrians hundreds of years previous, and by that point he's already likely been hemalurgically spiked back to a physical body. We know that Hoid has slapped Thaidakar around before. While its possible Hoid has been able to do this to someone else besides Kelsier, it seems unlikely. It also sounds like Hoid wouldn't mind doing it again. Hoid referring to Scadrial as "a stupid planet" doesn't eliminate this possibility just because of his letters with Harmony--he insults literally everyone, and plus, Scadrial isn't anywhere close to inventing instant noodles yet. Mraize's cube from the Ire also could point to Kelsier. We know that Kelsier has tangled with the Ire before at their fortress on the edge of the Scadrian subastral. Even if Kel didn't directly procure the cube (and the special little fellow inside), it is telling that Mraize has yet another curious device from them. While the previous assumption has been that Kel has never world-hopped due to his connection to Scadrial, it seems plausible that he could get to somewhere close like Sel (since the Ire somehow have connected their fortress to Sel-ish investiture, if I understood right) or even Threnody (the Ire seem very concerned about Threnody shades turning up in that area). This opens the door to the idea Kel could have world-hopped and been seen by Hoid, but he may not be able to do so easily or freely. The twisted morality of the Ghostbloods does line up with Kel's previous exploits. As readers, I know we want to think of Kel as an infallible hero, but his behavior throughout the Mistborn series reveals he operates in some interesting moral grey areas. His hatred for the nobles of Scadrial manifested more than once in a bloodthirsty streak. He had no scruples about deceiving skaa to set him up as a religious figure, a notion he appears to repeat again with the Southern Scadrians stepping into the role of The Sovereign. He literally punched Preservation in the face without qualms. Kelsier has ultimately been a hero figure so far, but the Cosmere is full of morally complex characters (e.g. Raboniel, Leshwe, Marsh, Shallan, Jasnah, etc.). If I remember correctly, I think even Vin considers that Kelsier had a dark side. It's also telling that he couldn't hold the shard of Preservation long, implying he just had too much Ruin in him. In the end, Kel seems a "the ends justify the means" sort, and even more so, he's a gambler which lines up with much of the Ghostbloods complex moves. We have a WoB confirming that Kelsier could lead the Ghostbloods and that his mentality lines up with theirs. This was a rather masterful way of avoiding giving a RAFO on the topic, by the way. We have strong evidence to suggest that Thaidakar is a title, like Mraize. As others in the thread have indicated, this implies the Ghostbloods may have existed previously under different leadership. The aforementioned WoB also hints at this--Kelsier wouldn't need to found this group to end up in charge of it. The Ghostbloods have a strong interest in finding ways to transport investiture across worlds. This would both interest Kelsier personally (as it could provide a way for him off Scadrial or perhaps to keep his cognitive shadow from decaying), and it lines up business-wise with Kelsier's crew leader mentality. We also have a WoB that the Ghostbloods consider the methods they are exploring both the most-sustainable and least-ethically-dubious, which is interesting. Kel is a man with good business sense, and he had an interesting way of manipulating the criminal underworld on Scadrial. It seems plausible he is doing the same thing with the Ghostbloods, directing bad people towards means that ultimately serve greater goals. This is one is a bit meta, but Brandon is a master of delivering on foreshadowing. As many have pointed out, you don't put this much work into setting up a red herring unless there will be a satisfying payoff. It feels like Brandon has been uniquely quiet about Kelsier as he might relate to the larger Cosmere--he's put off Wax and Wayne 4 for several years, been mum about doing a second Secret History, and has answered questions about Kelsier in a way to keep fans enticed but not indicate too many strong connections to the Stormlight Archives. Unless this is leading to a left-field switch (like Thaidakar being Spook or Marsh or even Mare, which is much more far-fetched), this whole thing screams that we are getting payoff after years of foreshadowing. Rhythm of War was, in many ways, a non-stop Brandon-avalanche of payoffs for fan theories relating to the Cosmere as a whole (I screamed so many times during the last chapters lol). It would take so many storytelling acrobatics at this point for Thaidakar to not be Kelsier that it would start to strain disbelief. Is it possible? Sure, but it's pretty unlikely given the evidence and the writer. This has been quite the fun one to dive into!

Clearly, the black spheres are from Gavilar's bangin' rockbud collection.

There are some hints throughout the books that basically the majority of people in Alethkar (and possibly Jah Keved as well?) have an epicanthic fold on their eyes. This is why Shin eyes are described as so big-- they're basically white people eyes. There are hints that even many in Makabak share the epicanthic fold trait (since there is a remark that Ash's eyes looked Shin despite her dark skin). Shallan has skin on the lighter side for a Veden, but we don't get a description of her eyes. On Roshar, Caucasians would make up a minority. The Herdazians and Reshi are described with features similar to Hispanic, Latin, or South American cultures.The Alethi are also very tanned-- similar in appearance possibly to Polynesians, northeast Indians, Brazilians, or possibly some vague similarities to some Himalayan cultures maybe? Brandon seems like he wanted the races to not exactly match earth, but white people are pretty rare on Roshar outside of Shinovar. Shooting in the dark, the young man who played Aquaman as a late-years teenager might not be a terrible choice, but most likely, someone unknown would probably fit the role :).

Hmm, another interesting twist to the "personal responsibility" theory. Just noticed (also in WoR) a correlation with the time that Kaladin loses Syl. Consider some of his talk while he's with Shallan in the chasms: Don't think this has anything to do with the Unmade in this case, but again we see a potential correlation between dodging personal responsibility/blaming others and Odium.

True. Some of the Unmade intents make sense: amplifying gluttony, amplifying bloodlust, imitating violence... but others do not. RAFO, I guess lol.

On this same subject, is it a logical conclusion that Dai-Gonarthis, The Black Fisher, might be the Unmade in question considering this quote from the death rattles? We have a good idea how the most of other Unmade operate, and none of the others really make sense. They all seem to take something inherent to humans and try to twist it, amplify it, or imitate it in a perverse way. We already have a good idea what Yelig-Nar, Ashertmarn, Moelach, Nergaoul, Re-Shaphir, and Sja-Anat do (of these, Sja-Anat seems a possible candidate but it seems unlikely since Shallan doesn't remember corrupted spren). Ba-Ado-Mishram seems to have something to do with granting Voidlight, so that one seems unlikely as well. Sure, it could be, Chemoarish, The Dustmother, but the name doesn't seem to infer the sorts of things happening in the Davar household. An Unmade that feeds off and amplifies emotions surrounding sorrow, however (if Dai-Gonarthis is really the 9th Unmade), would have a hey-day in a home like House Davar where misery ran rampant. We don't have enough information yet, but by process of elimination, it seems a possibility.

Nice! My husband burst out with a loud, "OH SNAP!" or something similar when Lin said that line (audiobook) since Dalinar's "You can't have my pain" scene is one of our favorites in the series. Some very intriguing clues in play, and that's interesting regarding the question about Ruin as well. Shallan is going to have an interesting time now that her brothers (who don't yet understand how she's grown) are at Urithiru. Makes you wonder if the Unmade just like Jah Keved or if there is something about that particular family that has drawn one.

This isn't a particularly new theory, but my husband and I noticed something interesting on our most recent reread of Words of Radiance. (Spoilers will follow) I've seen it postulated before that Shallan's father may have been influenced by an Unmade. We see a hint of this when Hoid (as the messenger) tells Shallan as a child that the things she (and her family) fights aren't entirely natural. In the "No More Weakness" flashback, after Lin Davar beats the maid, he says something that stood out to us: While, at first glance, this seems like typical abuser mentality, it jumped out at us when we realized this is exactly the attitude Odium tried to get Dalinar to embrace when he almost made him his Champion. Odium wanted Dalinar to attribute his evil deeds to mere passion, to the interference of The Thrill. Dalinar narrowly escapes this trap by taking personal responsibility for his actions and accepting them so he can grow. Lin Davar seems to be an example of the opposite-- he decides his rage isn't his fault and that he just needs to be able to express it. He dodges personal responsibility, attributing his deeds to the influence of passion and the doing of others. While this could be just human nature, the combination of Hoid's warning and the similarity to Dalinar's encounter with Odium (who seems to thrive off people "giving him their pain" and passion) makes me wonder if this is further proof of an Unmade influencing the Davar house. Does anyone have thoughts on that, or has anyone noticed further connections to suggest that? There was alot of weirdness in that household-- Jushu's tendency towards excess, Wikim's towards depression and suicide, and Balat's for cruelty and destruction, for example (on a side note, makes you wonder if Balat might even end up as a Dustbringer eventually).

Venli and Rlain. It just occurred to me that they both think they are the last Listener alive. Others that would be interesting are Lift and... well, anyone, but a few that come to mind are Vin, Kelsier, or Wayne.

You know, the former Unmade theory might make sense considering how Sja-Anat seems to be trying mighty hard to defect.

Oh, gotcha. That makes sense.

So I am nearing the end of a reread of Oathbringer, and an odd thought occurred to me (which might be totally incorrect lol). It seems generally speculated that the three Bondsmiths would bond The Stormfather (Honor's Cognitive Shadow), possibly The Nightwatcher (who may be connected to Cultivation in a similar way even though she still lives), and The Sibling. This suggests that, perhaps, the Sibling would also have needed to be connected to a Shard, and it seems unlikely that this was Odium. Is it entirely outside the realm of possibility that this was Ambition? We know Ambition was mortally wounded by Odium above Threnody, but that she fled. I couldn't find a confirmation where, but it seems like Odium went to Roshar next. Is it possible Ambition made it to Roshar, splintered there, but that The Sibling remained, similar to how The Stormfather remained after Tanavast was splintered? I wouldn't be surprised if there are problems with this theory, but I was just wondering if it had been considered. The Sibling is an odd piece in the Roshar puzzle (as is the Nightwatcher, if she had anything to do with The Bondsmiths).

This is a slightly out there theory, but I figured it was possibly worth asking. When Shallan was sitting with Hoid in Kholinar, there is a specific moment where she sees two different versions of herself in her lightweaving-- almost as if she is seeing herself had she made different decisions. I believe shortly thereafter, she accuses Hoid of tampering with her light weaving. We already know Hoid is basically a Mistborn because of the lerasium bead he took from the Well of Ascension, and we have seen him subtly use Allomancy on Roshar before. Did anyone else wonder if perhaps Hoid burned Malatium (or an unknown metal) then used his own light weaving to project what he saw? I don't know if this is possible since supposedly all of the atium on Scadrial was burnt (assuming you need atium to make malatium since it is an alloy?), but it did cross my mind. Just curious if anyone else wondered this or if this is totally bonkers lol.

Kabsal! I actually couldn't stand Shallan throughout Way of Kings, but she won me over by the end. Kabsal however was a toolbox. I would say others would probably be Blushweaver, Kampaar, and possibly Sarene.

Quick question. I know the Drifter who shows up at the Well of Ascension is Hoid. My husband and I have a disagreement: what exactly did he apply to his corpseboat Spanky (and why did that particular dead body not get sucked into the spiritual realm) and his oar? My husband thinks it was stormlight or some use of his Yolish light weaving, but I think he was applying something else-- liquid metal? Sand from Taldain? No clue. Do we have any WoB or strong theories on this?

I did a Mistborn Casting list over at IMDB, but here are a few highlights. Vin- Millie Bobbie Brown (By the time the film is in production, she'll be about the right age) or Hailee Steinfeld. I would have loved to have seen Willa Holland in the role, but I think she is too old now. Kelsier- Bradley Cooper or Aaron Eckhart Straff Venture - Ray Fiennes Quellion - Tom Hardy Ruin - Eddie Redmayne The Lord Ruler - Tom Hiddeston, Benedict Cumberbatch, or Adam Driver (the latter would make a good Jastes Lekal too) Marsh - Aaron Eckhart or Michael Fassbender Hoid - David Tennant Tensoon - Idris Elba Clubs - Danny Trejo Breeze - Stephen Fry Cett - Stellan Skarsgard or Brian Blessed Ham - Jason Statham or Kevin Durand Shan - Priyanka Chopra or Marion Cotillard Preservation - Ben Kingsley Sazed - Aamir Khan Tindwyl - Veronica Falcon or Gina Torres Dockson - Karl Urban or Liev Schreiber

I think you have sold me on this theory!

That... would make for a spectacular cosplay prop lol.