Spinner16

I like this line of thinking, a sort of compromise where Dalinar technically wins but ends up holding the incredibly volatile shard of Odium. However, in my mind I see the duel being an objective loss for Dalinar and the radiants. The Blackthorn persisting as a Fused to rain terror upon the Cosmere is too tempting of an idea to pass up. Either way, Dalinar is not leaving this duel as a mortal.

THIS IS SO COOL

I could see that, some sort of Kholinar situation where spend Part One believing we know where the climax of the book falls, the BOOM, Brandon pull the rug away from us.

At first I was on board when the Fused starting building their own version of Urithiru. It really seemed to add to the theme of a parallel arms race. But Brandon really lost me when he named it Urithitwo. That part was just silly.

I'm glad someone else has faith in Brandon to pull this off. Historically, our ability as a fanbase to predict the endings of these books is not great, especially when we're steered towards a misdirection. I believe everything with Adolin and Maya is smoke and mirrors, and am still clinging to the theory that Adolin (sign of nine) Kholin will become Odium's champion.

This is absolutely incredible! I love being part of this community.

It a question of theme versus motif. A motif is a recurring idea in a story. A theme is a specific statement that reappears due to the intent (or Intent ) of the author. At least, those are the definitions I'm working with. I do not disagree that responsibility is a huge part of SA. However, the thing about a theme is it is generally a statement to take away. "Responsibility" is not specific enough, I'd say its considered more of a motif. My argument here was that SA books are special because their theme is not an answer, but rather a question. I'll admit that the question of "When do I take responsibility?" could be a theme. I was simply able to find more evidence in Way of Kings supporting the idea that the central question is "What is the value of a human life" -Also its a book so whatever your opinion is its a valid one.

Syl dying would be absolutely heartbreaking. I don't want to admit it but it would go so well with Kaladin's character arc.

The Stormlight Archive is my favorite book series, hands down. Its taken me a long time to express in words what it is about the series that speaks so strongly to me. A major hurdle in describing the series is naming themes among the books. Great books have clear themes, central ideas that the story exists in order to explore. I could name hundreds of books combed over by English classes, but within Brandon's own work there are strong themes. The first Mistborn book, for example, focuses on the idea of faith. The idea that faith gives people the strength to keep going. Sazed's endless conversations with Kelsier are an easy example of this. But take Kelsier himself, he chooses to martyr himself, trusting the rebellion will carry on. Vin learns to trust in the thieving crew, the first group she's ever been able to rely on. Elend has faith in Vin, falling in love with her even as he doubts her motives. And Elend has faith in his ideas of equality. He uses his "Enlightenment" ideals in order to save the city from a mob of rioters. There are dozens of other examples throughout the book. And while this idea of faith is not the only theme present in Mistborn, it is one of the core ones. Almost every single scene and character builds on this idea. Is there a similar central statement in the books of the Stormlight Archive? The short answer is no. The books of the Stormlight Archive are huge. There are dozens of plots and characters, and I am not able to come up with one statement of theme for any of the books. Anything I can come up with either falls short, unable to encompass the breadth of the book, or it is contradicted by some part in the story. Then I realized something. The Stormlight books are, in and of themselves, opposed to the idea one central truth. Coming up with a single theme to encompass one of the books would be contradictory to the message of the series. I believe a central part of the Stormlight Archive is that right and wrong do not exist in some sort of divine dichotomy. Morality is different depending on who's perspective you're seeing from. Now is this a theme for the series? I would say no, it's too broad. However, this idea of individual experiences working in shades of grey is supported in each book. Stormlight does not have these sweeping general statements, but it still contains themes. In Stormlight, the theme of each book is a question. Every moment in each book answers one central quandary presented. And here's the magical thing about that- there are different answers. Much as Radiant orders seek individualized paths to Honor, the books give readers individualized answers to the questions posed by the novel. Let me preface the following paragraphs by saying that this is simply my own interpretation of the books. In addition, I am aware of confirmation bias, and may be stretching some things to fit the theories I propose. I am writing this to put into words what makes Stormlight so powerful to me, and I hope it might allow other people to better voice their opinions about these books. The Way of Kings. The book varies incredibly in terms of characters, settings, and ideas. But the entire novel is working towards one goal. The Way of Kings is written to answer the following question. What is the value of a human life? Here are the different levels that idea works on. Abstract-On this first level, the book deals with the philosophical idea of a human life's worth. Slavery is a powerful motif throughout the story. Front and center are the bridgemen, who have been bought as arrow-fodder. Sadeas throws his slave's lives away in order to protect the "more valuable" lives of his troops. In contrast, Dalinar and Adolin attack by hopping the chasms themselves. Although this spares the lives of bridgemen, Dalinar notes that if he were to fall in battle, many lives would be lost. Yet still Dalinar continues his strategy of charging across. He believes throwing away the lives of men is a dishonorable thing to do. When Dalinar trades his Shardblade to save Kaladin's men from slavery, he asks Kaladin what value a human life carries. Kaladin replies, "a life is priceless" (Chapter 69). This notion has been drummed into Kaladin's mine by his father. Lirin pushed Kaladin to become a surgeon, the best way to preserve precious lives in the harsh world that is Roshar. Lirin taught Kaladin that there are two types of men, those who save life and those who take it. Kaladin struggles for the entire book with the suspicion that he might be the second kind. Pair this with the discussion in Chapter 36, The Lesson. Jasnah uses her Soulcaster to utterly destroy three thieves who attack her and Shallan. Was this the right thing to do? Lirin would say no. Jasnah used her power to take three lives, people that might have be reformed or simply imprisoned. Furthermore, Jasnah exposed herself to danger, deliberately allowing the thieves to attack her. On the other hand, Jasnah sees herself as justice. She stopped the thieves from harming anyone else. She acted for the common good. Allowing the thieves to live might be allowing them to slip through the fingers of ineffective Kharbranthian courts, and harm the lives of innocent people. This ideology is also found in the actions of Taranvangian. Taranvangian is willing to murder patients in his hospital, reasoning that their lives are worth the information they give in their Death Rattles. Jasnah and Taranvangian say lives can and should be ended in order to protect innocents, but Lirin states every life is priceless and to kill is a crime, no matter the intention. Who is right? The book supports both arguments, providing different answers to the question on hand. Individual-On this level, the book examines how far people will go to preserve a life close to them. To Kaladin, his brother's life was worth enlisting in the army. Kaladin followed his brother Tien into military service in order to protect him. This is a direct parallel to Shallan, who aims to steal Jasnah's Soulcaster in order to save the remaining family she has. Both characters are forced into horrible things to protect the ones they love. Then there is the Vengeance Pact. An entire kingdom is going to war to avenge the death of a single man. On the other side, there are characters willing to sacrifice a life to prevent horrible things. The Listeners assassinate King Gavilar to prevent him from bringing back the Voidbringers, knowing very well a bloody war will follow. The Heralds condemn Taln to eternal torture so that they might walk free. Dalinar falls on this side as well. He decides that Elhokar is too weak to sit on the throne, and shoulders him aside. He does not take Elhokar's life, but instead the dignity associated with it. In addition, Dalinar begins to question the Vengeance Pact. Was the life of his brother really worth all of this fighting and bloodshed? Nale strikes down burgeoning Radiants, believing he is stopping a Desolation. Amaram murders Kaladin's squad, believing the Shards will do the most good in his hands. How far will you go to save a life? How dire do the consequences need to be before you take one? These questions tie back into the concept of the value of life, and once again, many different answers are proposed. The Vengeance Pact is wrong, and yet what Nale is doing is also wrong. How much should we value our loved ones? Personal-How much do we value our own lives? This is a tough one. There is a strong motif of suicide throughout the books. The vision of Kaladin standing at the edge of a chasm is one that has haunted his character arc ever since. He was willing to proclaim his life meaningless, not worth the pain it brings. Later, Kaladin becomes a symbol to his fellow bridgemen. His life becomes more once he survives the highstorm. By standing for something greater, his life gains value. Shallan, when poisoned by Kabsal, reveals the Soulcaster in order to save her own life. Elhokar makes up assassination attempts in order to convince Dalinar that his life matters and he is in danger. Dalinar, struggling with hallucinations, questions whether or not he is worthy to still lead. The doubt Dalinar feels in himself seeps through much of his viewpoints in this book, he is willing to step aside, devaluing his life in for the betterment of others. Then there is Szeth. The Assassin in White does not commit mass murder because of some sort of magical bond, but simply does so because of his ideals. Szeth values his view on life enough to slaughter hundreds in the name of it. What is the value of a human life? Its a hard question. To provide only one answer would be a disservice to the depth the question demands. The Way of Kings gives many many answers. And the thing that makes this book so powerful for me is that the answers make sense. I do not agree with all of them, but when I'm given context into the characters, I can sympathize with the choices they make. And thats what reading Stormlight does. I may not always find answers, but I do find compassion. I'll be back later with deep dives into Words of Radiance and Oathbringer. Until then, let me know what you think.

I will retract my statement that all Radiants are broken. However I still think its really interesting that becoming a Knight is about accepting pain, and its often a much more difficult path.

As we learn more and more about the war between Radiants and Voidbringers, we begin to see a sort of parallel arms race type thing. Surgebinding vs Voidbinding, Fused vs Heralds, Shardblades vs Thunderclasts, the list of mirrored structures goes on. Now in Oathbringer, we learn about Odium's main campaign pitch. He can take away your pain. This offer made me think. In almost a religious sort of sense, followers of Odium are rewarded for their service with removal of their pain. What do followers of Honor receive? Let's get into Radiant oaths. There are five of them, no matter the order, and they're often viewed as a sort of ladder, a 5 step program to becoming whole. And why is this tempting? Radiants are, as a rule, broken people. They seek fulfillment in pursuit of a higher cause. However, this is not the same offer as Odium. In fact, I see it as the opposite. As Radiants further their oaths, they expose themselves to more pain. Swearing oaths has provided characters with answers, with solutions to problems. However, swearing oaths has never spared a Radiant from pain. Being a follower of Odium means you are set free from pain. Being a Knight Radiant means you push yourself deeper into it. Now what do I mean by pain? I mean the guilt Dalinar faces as he relives The Rift. I mean the anguish in Kaladin's heart after seeing his men die. I mean the world-shattering trauma Shallan bears after murdering her parents. Becoming Radiant did not alleviate these pains, rather, it exacerbated them. Dalinar swore an oath to take responsibility for his war crimes, he must now face his actions with only himself to blame. Shallan has to confront herself about what she has done, living with her truth instead of suppressing it. And Kaladin. Kaladin is the strongest example of oaths bringing pain. It would have been easier to remain selfish, but Kaladin swore to protect others. It would have been simpler to allow for Elhokar to die, but Kaladin swore to protect even those he hates. And now, Kaladin is faced with the realization that he cannot protect everyone. If Kaladin swears his Fourth Ideal, he will not find peace. He will only find more sorrow. Sorrow in admitting to himself that even with all his abilities, he is not enough. The Fourth Ideal does not bring the peace of accepting you can't be infallible, it brings the guilt of knowing you're skills are insufficient to save the people you love. So why become a Radiant? The farther you go, the more pain you receive. You have to confront your darkest self, and once you're there, you don't move on, you don't get to forget. You must move forward, accepting more pain and more responsibility all while staring your darkest demons straight in the face. Being a Radiant makes the pain worse, but here's the thing- "Ten spears go to battle, all but one shatter. Did the war forge the spear that remains? No. The war identified the spear that would not break" Accept your pain, move forward, and you'll get stronger. With Odium, you can find peace, that's what makes his offer so potent. But swear an oath, become a Knight, and you'll become something new. Through pain, you will become Radiant. -Spinner

I absolutely love the vision of Kaladin just walking away. Wit chilling with Moash would also be really funny. I could definitely see Brandon creating the most hateable character imaginable and then letting him stick around for the rest of the cosmere.

The Rysn interlude will be from Chiri-Chiri's perspective.

Moash's fall from grace has been such a protracted thing that it would be a waste to have him get redeemed. I absolutely love him as a villain and I'd hate to lose him in any way other than in an incredible climactic battle with Kaladin.

I love this. Somehow every minute detail in these 1200 page books has some sort of importance. I really like the idea that the Nightwatcher changed Dalinar's order.

Dalinar says a lot of awesome things at the end of Oathbringer, and it is safe to assume that at least of them is an Ideal. According to The Coppermind, Dalinar's Third Ideal is as follows. "I will take responsibility for what I had done. If I must fall, I will rise each time a better man." This made sense to me. Then the descriptions of the orders came out on Brandon's website. That got me thinking. Theory time: Bondsmiths are all about unity (or maybe Unity). However, the description does say that "this is a loose theme, as there are so few Bondsmiths—and the three sources of their powers are so different in personality—that the oaths can end up taking a variety of different shapes, depending on the situation." So it makes sense that the responsibility oath is something Dalinar would swear, it is attuned to his personal journey. But what caught my interest was the Dustbringer description, "Dustbringer oaths were themed toward responsibility. They were led to understand that the powers they used needed to be properly channeled, much as their own desires and wills needed proper form and shape." Take Dalinar's Third Ideal out of context. His words are an oath to take responsibility. He speaks to falling and becoming something better because of it. This sounds very Dustbringer to me. And this is Brandon we're dealing with. Literally every mention of the word "passion" in this books has some hidden meaning fans have yet to uncover. I find it hard to believe that Brandon would make this oath sound so similar to that of a Dustbringer without reason. Extrapolating like crazy, I have reached this conclusion about Bondsmiths. Here are the facts: 1.They were the leaders 2.There were three of them 3.They worked to resolve disputes A huge theme of the Stormlight Archive is that a leader learns through diversity of experiences. Nohadon's entire life was spent learning the ways of the people he led. Who do the Bondsmiths lead? The Radiants. What if Bondsmith Oaths are borrowed from the Orders of Radiants that they govern? That would be such an incredible way to ensure that the leaders were capable of understanding and resolving disputes. Here is how I propose bondsmith progression works. Ideal 1: Life before death, strength before weakness, journey before destination Ideal 2: Unity oath Ideals 3-5: Ideals containing themes from 3 different orders of Knight's Radiant. If there were three full Bondsmiths leading the radiants, and each of the three chose a different combination of 3 orders, that means that the Bondsmiths would, in a sense, be a part of all 9 other Orders. In addition, this diversity of Oaths and mentalities is what makes each Bondsmith so unique in abilities. Dustbringer fits Dalinar so well, and swearing that Oath allowed him to grow through a part of his life and understand the world more clearly. What Oaths are to come for him? Only time will tell. Or maybe time will only serve to disprove my theory.

I got Willshaper. My first thought was "I'm not sure I like being shoved into a certain category" Funny how things work.

Thank you so much for making me think of the "ShardPhone X"

Rock as a Bondsmith would be WILD. Spiritual Adhesion brings all of Roshar together over a bowl of soup.

So at the end of Oathbringer, Lunamor was able to draw and fire a Grandbow straight through Amaram's black heart. How the flip did he do this? I have no clue if anyone has done the math on the draw weights of Shardbows, but they fire arrows "as thick as three fingers", so the strength required must be incredible. They require augmenter fabrials in order to avoid shattering, and previously only people in Shardplate can fire them. I believe that Rock's miraculous shot was made possible through his status as an alaii’iku, his ability to see and communicate with spren. The augmenter fabrials involved with the bow enhance the durability of the metal, its tensile strength. If Rock was able to contact the spren, and maybe influence them with Stormlight, could he convince them to make the Shardbow more pliable? This would be like a weird offshoot of Soulcasting, where negotiations with spren lead to powerful affects. This might also relate to Tension in some way, too bad we know nothing about it. So bottom line is I'm saying that Rock somehow talked to the spren inside the fabrial and convinced/bribed/bullied. them to make the bow easier to draw. I wish I had more evidence, but we have so little info on both Rock and Fabrials. Perhaps part of Rock's conflict after Thaylen Field came from cussing out spren (Tensionspren?), which he reveres. What does this mean for the future of Lunamor? Well, I would like to see him and Navani team up to restore Urithiru. Not only would any interactions between those two be pure gold to read, we would get to learn more about spren and fabrials, and the Urithiru light-up scene needs to happen ASAP.

When Argent read through all of those consecutive Epigraphs they all fit into one thing in my head, The Scouring of Aimia. Part 1 When this was read one line caught my attention. "The waters surged beneath, so far beneath." Immediately I thought about the undersea caverns underneath Aimia. Aimia fits the description of a homeland being destroyed, and where else on Roshar do "waters surge beneath". I can't fit in the idea of the homeland falling into dust, but the relation to undersea caverns fits too well to ignore. Part 2 "Light grows so distant. The storm never stops. I am broken, and all around me have died. I weep for the end of all things. He has won. Oh, he has beaten us." - Chapter 56 Epigraph I really like the idea of multiple Death Rattles showing multiple perspectives, and The Scouring would be a notable enough event to warrant Moelach's "attention". However, it is too easy to draw false connections between Death Rattles when you want them to all fit perfectly. I tried to avoid linking to many, but the line "The storm never stops" got me thinking. I did a brief Internet search on the word "scouring". The third definition is as follows: "(of water or a watercourse) make (a channel or pool) by flowing forcefully over something and removing soil or rock.". That's pretty interesting isn't it? It fits with the word choice of Scouring, which implies that there wasn't simply mindless destruction. The word Scouring always implies that an abrasive substance is used to wash something clean. Why did In-World Scholars/Brandon choose that word? I think that it is because the effects of a "storm that never stops" would be adequately described as a scouring. Part 3 "I hold the suckling child in my hands, a knife at his throat, and know that all who live wish me to let the blade slip. Spill its blood upon the ground, over my hands, and with it gain us further breath to draw."- Chapter 57 Epigraph Let's take these first two ideas and run with them. Let's imagine this sequence of events. A) An endless highstorm swept through Aimia, a nation unused to facing the brutal storms. 2) Untold death and destruction were caused, warranting the name "Scouring". C) Where did people go to shelter? The underground caverns. I make the assumption that Pre-Scouring, these caverns were not underwater, and made a sensible location to shelter. So imagine this. Imagine thousands migrating into deep caves to avoid the brutal storms above. Unfortunately, there is no shelter to be had here. As the epigraph states, "the water surged beneath, so far beneath". Imagine torrential amounts of water pouring into caverns filled with civilians. This brings us to the final epigraph that I want to tie in. I imagine this Death Rattle comes as a vision of people trapped in a cave, water, up to their knees and rising steadily. A few dozen men, women, and children shivering, realizing their air is running out. And so they begin to kill each other, desperately trying to maximize oxygen in this ever-shrinking cavern. In my mind, the first to go are the "suckling children", held up by their mothers in the cave. The refugees are trying to by themselves time, and they want solely able bodied people using the precious air. Maybe there were rocks to move or monsters to fight. But just think about how well this image fits with the line "And with it gain us further breath to draw" In what other context does that line make sense? Part 4 Summary: Aimia was Scoured by a juiced up highstorm, causing citizens to flee underground and face a slow death as the caves filled with water. Feel free to add to my theory, or tear it to shreds. This is my first big post as a member of the 17th shard, and I just want to get my take on these epigraphs out there in the open.

If they're gonna make this a TV show it has to be soon. Morgan Freeman NEEDS to play Tobias.