Strifelover

I don’t have such a problem with Radiant since it isn’t really an outward facing persona but an ideal she aspires to. Veil is pretty absurd though considering it’s her name to try and trick the Ghostbloods. She may as well have just named herself Guy (girl?) Incognito or Disguise.

I agree, I think the use of justified is hanging people up. Of course you can't morally justify racism, but what's more interesting to think about and discuss is whether or not we can understand or even sympathize with our characters in-world as they grapple with the concept. It's similar to how Brandon likes to write a sympathetic villain, rather than just have them just be pure evil. His stories are much richer when we try to understand the motivations behind his villains. Similarly for the in-world racism, it's easy to object to it morally, but I do think Brandon makes it understandable. Think about modern Roshar - they've got these priceless, magical swords and as soon as somebody has one it turns them into a Lighteyes. It's not a stretch at all for that to become ingrained in their culture. Like most concepts, it's complex and often more grey than it is simply black and white.

Aw man me too! Welcome to the Shard and a good first post!

Metal and Stormlight actually act very differently in their respective magic systems, but it's understandably confusing. On Roshar, Stormlight is investiture and it powers the Surebinding. On Scadrial, the metal isn't powering Allomancy, it's like a key that unlocks the ability to draw on Preservation's investiture directly. Different metals act like different keys, unlocking different powers. The metal itself isn't unique or invested on Scadrial, an Allomancer could go to any other planet and with the proper metals still use Allomancy. Basically Scadrians, because they were both created by Pres and Ruin, but also have an extra bit of Pres in them, are especially Connected to Preservation. Certain genes allow them, after snapping, to use that Connection to allow the investiture to flow into them. Lerasium rewrites the Spiritweb of any person who burns it to become Connected to Preservation. Let me know if that helps!

I think it was just in Dalinar's head. If you think about his character's arc throughout all of OB, but specifically at that moment, it's all about him accepting and owning his mistakes and striving to do better. Just moments before we had the big climax (You cannot have my pain!) where he refused to push blame off onto anything else. I think it would hugely cheapen this moment, if it really was Evi forgiving him. Dalinar doesn't need his past mistakes to tell him it was OK, he needs to own them and move forward, which he does. I think this is just Dalinar acknowledging what Evi was trying to tell him throughout their marriage, that he could be a better person, and he's committing to do just that.

But Preservation was actually far better than Ruin at seeing the future, so it'd be weird if Atium granted that power and not Lerasium if that's the way it worked. All of the Shardblades are made of Tanavast's investiture, not just the Honorblades, which is why they have to take a metallic form when they're being used as a weapon. I think the Honorblades are more like an unsealed Nicrosilmind, that grant anyone who holds it certain powers.

Spymaster is a good thought, and certainly makes sense given her nickname Taker of Secrets. I personally am not sold that she couldn't previously corrupt Radiant spren. I know the Radiants say she couldn't, but they'd have a huge vested interest in saying that. It could be pretty disastrous if there were fears or speculation that the Radiants' Spren were being influenced by Odium. The level of fear they seem to have for Sja-Anat, to the point that Hessi suggests abandoning a city entirely if you think she's there, seems to point to something bigger than just corrupting lesser Spren. But maybe it's like you say, once she's there and lots of everyday Spren have been corrupted it's tough to avoid her eavesdropping.

I really enjoyed the various Bridge 4 viewpoints, although not because I thought they'd help characterize the order of Windrunners. The Teft chapters were heartbreaking, Rlain's was too although also heartwarming, and I'm just really interested to learn more about Rock. I'm not really sure what you're looking for here with Jasnah. She's gathering information via her spy network, wreaking havoc in the battle at Thaylen City, but it seems like her big political action is largely being saved for a later book. As for her 'death' she didn't die at all, so there isn't any big characterization there. She says to Shallan, you should know that it takes more than a stab wound to kill a Radiant - her stormlight healed her. She's an Elsecaller and was able to slip into Shadesmar to escape, and then she reappeared in the WoR Epilogue for a little jaunt with Hoid. There is a deleted chapter from WoR you might enjoy - Jasnah and Hoid Deleted Scene. I don't think that Moash is on a vengeance path, beyond having always wanted to kill Elhokar. That particular bit of vengeance is pretty straightforward. To me, his arc has been largely about giving up and feeling resigned. Initially he struggles with what he's done, betraying Kaladin and Bridge 4. He tries to find new camaraderie with his new Singer buddies, but he soon learns that classist cruelty isn't unique to humans. He's consistently prodded to just let go, give up his emotions, it's not his fault, etc. which is obviously Odious influence, so by the end he's becoming a villain not because he's really choosing the path but that he's become resigned to his fate. His arc mirrors and contrasts Dalinar's throughout the book. Brandon has said he uses the interlude chapters largely for worldbuilding, intentionally using one-off characters so he doesn't end up with some massive sprawling story with tons of little threads he needs to reconcile (*coughASOIAFcough*). The Purelake interlude serve two purposes: 1. it introduces the Purelake which seems like it will be relevant later in the story since there's apparently some mysterious sickness or plague spreading over there. And 2. it introduces the 17th Shard, which is also referenced in the letters between Hoid and Frost in the TWOK and WOR epigraphs. Where that goes, who knows! I know overall you're enjoying the books, so I hope I don't come off too critical. Part of the fun (for me) with Brandon's novels is that sometimes things don't make sense at the time that you read a certain passage, because they're cleared up later on with subsequent information. I enjoy the suspense, the speculation and the twists. If that's not your thing, I can understand it, but it's a mistake to think it's a lack of explanation and not withholding information for a future payoff. Hope this helps!

@John203 good call, didn't realize the post wasn't tagged for OB. Just 3 more months and we don't need to worry about that anymore!

I agree with the interpretation about Ati. He was a great guy, turned pretty dark and nearly destroyed an entire planet. I read this as Hoid using that example to justify why they should absolutely be more concerned about Odium. If good-guy Ati was capable of destroying an entire world, imagine what terrible Rayse is going to do! We know Hoid spends TWOK and WOR making this very argument, first to Frost and then elsewhere. Seems to me like he's trying to drum up support for his anti-Odium crusade. Edit: Removed OB spoilers

Narratively it feels like Gavilar's Sphere (the one he gives Szeth to hide) needs to be something really, really big and important. If it just contained Voidlight, a Fused or a Voidspren that would be kind of a letdown. Not that Fused or Voidspren can't be powerful, but we've already seen a bunch of Fused and at least a couple of Voidspren, the addition of one more doesn't seem that significant to me. If it contained an Unmade, especially BAM, that would definitely be significant enough to warrant so much foreshadowing. On the other hand, Gavilar pretty casually gives the other sphere to Eshonai, pretty much just to send a message to the Parshendi. If he had another Unmade, I don't think he'd be quite so cavalier in handing it over. So to me, it makes the most sense that the sphere he gives Szeth contains a trapped BAM, and the other sphere(s) contain Voidlight. We know BAM can provide Voidlight, and it seems a reasonable thing for Gavilar to give Eshonai to let the Parshendi know what he's really got and an idea of what he's planning. And yes, he could just be being manipulated or he doesn't know what he's doing, but I'm hopeful that's not the case. I really don't want the Sons of Honor to turn out to be the clueless dopes they seem so far.

I agree with this. It sounds more like him justifying why Rayse is so incredibly dangerous. We know from the letters Hoid mentions Ati was once a kind and generous man, whereas Rayse is a crafty and loathsome individual. I think this is more of the same, saying, 'Ati was a great guy and he nearly did something terrible. Rayse is clearly a problem we need to be dealing with!' I also wonder if the thing or person that Hoid lost, such that he now has this vendetta, relates to his conversation in TWOK with Kaladin. He mentions two of his names - Topaz, named after a beautiful gem that became worthless by his wearing it, and Hoid, stolen from someone he should have loved.

I definitely agree with those ties between Trelagism (OG religion on Scadrial pre-Era 1) and Taldain. I just think there are certain themes that you're bound to see in religion because they reflect human nature, and then there are some cases that seem a bit more specific. Trelagism and it's callbacks to Taldain are a lot more specific than just your average human nature story - we've got a guy on Taldain named Trell, hatred of the sun on a planet that has no particular focus on it and then the eventual shift to Trellism which seems very Autonomy-y. So I'm definitely with you on that. Just saying that not every common theme found across religions is an indication of some common origin or Cosmere-wide religious conspiracy.

I'm inclined to think that's the most likely answer. The jealous brother, or sibling rivalries, is a recurring theme in real-world religions. The most obvious example being Cain and Abel, as well as Joseph and his brothers, Zeus and essentially all of his siblings, etc. I think the easiest explanation is that religion is built to reflect and inform about real life experiences. Sibling rivalries actually do exist, and so it makes sense that people would craft religious stories based on the things they see occurring around them.

It's a cool idea, but the resonances that we've seen (confirmed or strongly speculated upon) don't seem to be such a literal combination of their two surges. The two confirmed resonances are the Windrunners: strength of squires, and the Lightweavers: Nmemonic abilities (incredible memory). At best you can make the case that they're sort of poetically tied to the two abilities, Windrunners leadership draws others two them and binds them together! But really it seems like they're not so directly related. The other resonance that isn't confirmed, but seems to be strong implied, is the Edgedancers communication skills. In the novella Edgedancer, Lift has a very weird conversation that neither Wyndle nor Lift really understands, but Lift does it any way. When Wyndle asks how she knew what to say she responds with something cryptic like, 'Words is words, it just felt right.' That's lead many to speculate that an innate ability to communicate with others is the Edgedancer resonance, which would be even more of a stretch to connect to the surges of progression and abrasion. To me the resonances seem more directly tied to each Order's mission or ideal - Windrunners are leaders, Lightweavers speak truths and Edgedancers focus on social outreach. We don't really know much about the Dustbringers to speculate on what their mission would be - their patron Herald was known for her bravery and obedience for whatever that's worth.

TBH I'm not really confident on any personal theory explaining the actual mechanics. If you subscribe to the idea that Iron Feruchemy is less about changing Wax's mass and more about changing how the planet perceives him as something to attract you can tease something out there. We don't really have a good idea of how resonances actually work, nor how we can reliably predict them. In the cases we do know (Oathbringer spoilers): Yeah that's just how Steel works in general. You start burning it, you get the blue lines even before pushing on anything. What I'm calling a 'vibe' (which was mostly a joking term so please don't take the word too seriously) would be an actual push just not directed towards any metal. If there's no metal whatsoever in a given direction, can a Coinshot still push in that direction and then if something suddenly enters that direction (i.e. a bullet) would that push affect that thing? I just called it a vibe since a push to me implies you're pushing on something, so to differentiate it.

I don't think they're saying it would cut through the sheath when placed inside of it but rather (Oathbringer spoilers):

The bullet in the prologue of BoM isn't the best example for what you're going for, the exact quote is, "A bullet. Three parts metal. The Tip. The casing. And the knob at the back. The spot the hammer would hit. In that moment, to Waxilliam's eyes, they split into three lines, three parts." I can't find the quote from TFE right now, but it might be better for your argument when Kelsier makes that bar spin by pushing and pulling on opposite sides? Just to be clear, since I feel like I'm confusing people, when I say push in a general direction I mean push in a direction where there is no metal, not there are a bunch of metal things in that direction and I'll push on them all. I agree that, largely subconsciously, a good Coinshot can just push on all the things they perceive in a given direction without having to individually consider each blue line and if they want to push on it or not. What I'm saying is, I don't think that in the absence of any metal in a given direction, a Coinshot good send out a push (or as I half-jokingly called it a steel vibe) in a direction, and then if something should very quickly enter into the line of sight in direction (i.e. a bullet) they'd automatically be pushing on it by having their steel vibing that way. I kind of argued against myself earlier when I said maybe it's just there's trace metals in every direction so you can always be pushing against them everywhere. I wouldn't personally find that to be the most interesting explanation, and I obviously like the resonance idea better, but it seems reasonable.

Sure, although I feel you can pretty much 'what's to say you can't...' almost anything and it's tough to disprove it. I definitely agree with you that we shouldn't just trust our characters' interpretations of the magic systems, especially on Scadrial where it's been intentionally obscured. But I'm just going to fall back on the simplest explanation being the most likely one. We get an explanation for how Steelpushing works both when Kelsier is teaching Vin, and at the beginning of Era 2 with Wax. In that explanation it's said that you need to be pushing on something. But then Wax seems to contradict that with his Steelbubble. So either, what we know fundamentally about Steel is wrong and/or there's more to it, OR Wax's special ability is related to the fact that he has another magical ability and we know that when people have two abilities they blend and interact together. Either way is totally possible, so I'm not saying you're wrong. I just think that with what we know now it seems to me more likely his Steelbubble is a resonance of the two abilities, rather than just him being a Steel savant.

I agree that for experienced Steelpushers, much less Steel savants, they're not consciously and deliberately looking at a bunch of blue lines and thinking, 'yup push on that one, but no not that one.' I think it's a lot more reflexive and sub-conscious. But you still need to push on something to use Steel. You're not just putting Steel vibes out in a general direction where there isn't metal, and if metal wanders into that AOE it gets pushed. I guess you could say that of course there are trace amounts of metal in every direction, and so Wax is just subtly pushing on those and when something gets in the way it starts getting pushed on instead, but I personally like the idea that it's more to do with an interaction between Iron Feruchemy and not just straight Steel Allomancy. Cool point about the Higgs Field stuff though! I again am not totally sure if that supports or opposes my opinion, but it's cool nonetheless! It's certainly possible, but there's no mention of it whatsoever. The guy doesn't do anything Iron Feruchem-y at all, and if he did presumably Wax would be able to pick it out. He is generally just a big dude though, so maybe he didn't need to increase his already considerable bulk at most times. I do feel like if he could use Iron Feruchemy, he would've when Wax tied the little grappling hook thing to his ankle and to a passing tree. He could've just tapped Iron to not be whipped off the train, but he didn't so I'm inclined to think he couldn't.

I was mostly being facetious about the zen state of mind idea, but I actually made the point for the very reason you said too - that he doesn't possibly have fast enough conscious reflex to push on a bullet fired at him. But still, when you push on something using steel you have to specifically choose something to push on. You can just push in a general direction, and then something happens along in the way and so now you're pushing on it. That's why I'm saying the steelbubble doesn't seem to make sense. That was probably too speculative of me to say iron feruchemy = gravity, but I do like the theory that there are base/fundamental types of magic in the Cosmere that span all magic systems. In that iron feruchemy is similar to the surge of gravitation, but I could be totally. For what it's worth, here's the quote from Wax and Khriss' conversation in Bands, she's asking him if he's ever increased weight while Steelpushing: TBH, I don't know physics well enough to say if this quote supports my point or yours, but if it's still a mystery to Khriss then I say the jury's still out either way.

For what it's worth, here's the quote from BoM as the nameless coinshot walks into the room, "doors rattled around him - he was a coinshot, obviously, pushing out with a bubble like the one Wax used." Wax also describes the doors rattling around him when he engages his own steel bubble. I feel like Wax might just be wrong, or misinterpreting what he's seeing. To me, steel on its own shouldn't be able to make the bubble even taking savantism into account. The whole point of how steel works is that you have to push on something. You're not just directing a push in a general direction, the lines are directly tied to metallic objects. So I don't get how Wax or anybody could just generally push on nothing in all directions and that would then affect bullets fired at him. If it's just steel, it'd make more sense if it was more of a state of mind, 'I'm ready to push on anything from anywhere,' but then there's no reason why that should actually be pushing on things. That's why I think that his steel bubble must be a resonance between his two powers. I don't know how it'd exactly work of course, but I'm more willing to accept it's a combination of pushing and gravity (essentially what iron feruchemy is). Then he'd need to be wrong about what that coinshot was doing as well.

That's really interesting. My kneejerk reaction to seeing that WOB is that it felt weird thematically that most all of our radiants are broken, struggle and the bond is part of the process to start 'fixing' themselves, but not her. Shallan (and maybe Kal) seems like the most extreme version of this, and so it wouldn't fit with this narrative. But maybe that's exactly the point - Shallan wasn't broken, accepted the bond and started to heal, she accepted the bond, and really was broken because of it. Her storyline of putting the pieces back together, which at first seems like it exemplifies this theme, may actually subvert it rather than confirm it. Will be interesting if/when we get any more back story on her around the time when she first met Pattern.

Mostly unrelated to your theory, but I'm really curious to know what happened to Shallan BEFORE the trauma of killing her mother. Typically (Lopen notwithstanding) potential radiants need to be broken, and the bond with their Spren helps to fill in those gaps. We think for most of the first few books that the thing that broke Shallan was the death of her mother and her father's subsequent abuse. But then we find out Shallan had already bonded Pattern and manifested him as a Shardblade in order to kill her mother (and the nameless Skybreaker). So what caused her to already be so broken, and at such a young age, that she attracted a Spren to bond with? Tough life Shallan's had.

I don’t think we need to wait for MB Era: 4 before we can come up with wacky theories, that’s half the fun of being a fan of a series in progress! Back on topic though, I’m skeptical that any level of compounding could ever lead to an Ascenion or a significant drop in a Shard’s investiture. You would think if either of those things were possible, the Lord Ruler would’ve already done them. His mind was greatly expanded and he was able to make himself an incredibly powerful Mistborn and he compounded for over a thousand years. If any of that was possible, he’d be the guy to do it.