Weux082690

This is a well-researched theory, @beewall Good job! Thoughts: *Three does seem to come up on Roshar a bunch. One that comes to mind is the Horneaters origin myth with the gods of mountain, forest, and water. Since the Horneaters have singer ancestry, there could be a connection here to the three gods of the Dawnsingers. *Syl does tell Dalinar that the Bondsmith powers were named before humans came to Roshar. Perhaps multiple Shards have the potential for Bondsmiths, or perhaps it was even something that happened with Adonalsium pre-Shattering. Perhaps BAM before being unmade was part of this process and rediscovered it during the False Desolation. *I think BAM was "Unmade" like the rest, but it is likely Odium picked a spren that was already heavily Connected to and Invested in Roshar and twisted it to his ends. This may also explain the color of Voidlight matching the third moon. Odium's colors appear to be white and gold (every appearence of Odium uses those colors, and Raysium is those colors), so Voidlight being violet seems to point to Odium co-opting and already existing magic for himself. Perhaps unmaking BAM was central to this co-opt.

Interesting theory. Honestly though, we know so little about El. His promenance in the epigraphs of this book suggests he may be a big character in the next book, or in the back 5, but we know so little about him now.

Ishar says they are worshipping Unmade in Shinovar. I believe it was not during his short lucid period though, so he could have been convinced the other Heralds are Unmade or something like that. There being an Unmade in Shinovar could explain alot though. Why were the Stone Shamans so convinced the Desolation wasn't coming when they (according to Ash) have prophesies about it? Why are the Shin shooting arrows at Windrunners who get too close? Why are the Shin basically giving away the Honorblades nowadays? Things like that.

I like this. It helps explain why the Shard would like questioning orders, and why confusion is a worthy Passion, and various hints like that. But it allows the Intent to still be Odium. It also lines up with the "divine fury" aspect of Odium.

The quote from the book is: This does make it seem like the Shard's Intent leans heavily on the fury/hatred side of things, but all passions seem to fall under it. Also, in the previous chapter, when Taravangian first feels a Connection to the Shard's power, he says it is because he is all passion today. Perhaps the Shard's Intent is Odium, but not as heavily full of hate as Rayse liked to pretend, instead all passions and passionate people are linked to Odium.

That is a good point. Makes me wonder if there is an Anti-Raysium, and how would one go about making it? Also, is there a way to convert Voidlight into Raysium, or would that require some Shardic intervention?

I think Rayse was working against the Shard. I think the Shard's Intent is Passion, but that Rayse, for some reason, was only allowing the Passion of hate, aka Odium. This idea comes from all the times the Fused talked about various emotions being "worthy Passions", but not all such passions are acceptable nowadays. We also see in Sja-Anat's interlude that the Shard likes questions, while Rayse does not, with the Shard calling questions a Passion. Rayse could have many reasons to go against his Intent: He was perpetuating a grudge against the other Shards. He thinks all emotions are weak except anger and hate. He wanted to be the only God and use his "evil" Intent as an excuse. Whatever the reason is, I think Rayse believes his Intent is Odium or is pretending his Intent is Odium, when it is actually Passion.

Shai uses the term with other people, and they understood her, so it is a common term.

I have. My take is:

In the Sja-Anat interlude, we see that while Rayse is against questioning orders, the Shard is all for it, calling it a Passion (capital P). We also have Fused (who should know their god best) saying that many different emotions are worthy Passions (capital P), but that not all are considered equally worthy in the current situation. I think it means that the Shard's Intent is actually Passion, but that Rayse has been forcing it to be Odium, hate. But Rayse was losing that battle. Now the new Vessel can use the Shard properly. Also note that Cultivation says she needed to make Taravangian attractive to the Shard. The day he ascends he is not super smart, feeling only the emotion of annoyance towards everyone (which seems like Odium), but instead he is super emotional, every act sees him crying, cowering, full of passion.

Full Book Reactions: *Is Book 5 going to take 10 days? Or will there be a Sanderson twist early to sneak extra days in? *Color, Tone, Rhythm, Light: It makes sense that the fundamental forces of creation would be heavily related to common phenomenon in nature, but Wow! *Anti-Investiture, wow! The process to create it seemed pretty easy to automate, so it will likely be mass-produced in the near future. Could this be related to how Adonalsium was Shattered or is this something totally new? Space ships powered by Investiture and Anti-Investiture colliding anyone? *Ghostbloods are "the most powerful organization in the cosmere" and led by Kelsier. Also Shallan (and by extension Adolin and probably all the Radiants) just went to war with them. I always thought that Scadrial and Roshar would be teaming up in the coming space age Cosmere war, but this makes it seem like they will be on opposite sides. *While I am on the subject, what do the Ghostbloods want with BAM? Most of the Ghostblood's goals have made sense: Mraize collecting different forms of Investiture not only increases his personal power, but he could be funneling these things to a team of scholars working on how to exploit them to free Kelsier. Being able to convert between different forms of Investiture would not just allow them to sell Stormlight, but could also be key to allowing Kelsier to leave Scadrial. Attempting to capture another Cognitive Shadow for study into Kelsier's "condition". But how does BAM fit into it? *Taravangian being Odium!? Didn't see it coming, but since Dalinar is on his way to being the new Honor, we could have more philosophical discussions on leadership during the back five. I could totally see these being the new prologues. *Also, many people here seem to be worried about Taravangian being the new Odium. I am not. Taravangian is a very "the ends justify the means" kinda person, but his goal is to save everyone. I think the Odium switch is a good thing, though it may not seem the way in the short term. I also think that the Shard is Passion, not Odium per say, and that Rayse molded it to be Odium because of his own personality. Taravangian could fix that. I think that's all I have to say for now.

Agreed. The Oathgate requires a living blade or Honorblade to function. A dead Testamentblade would not work. However, perception is big in the Cosmere. If Shallan had lied to herself so fully that she though Pattern was the same Shardblade she used to kill her mother, perhaps she could have summoned Patternblade before earning it. Or convinced the Oathgate to act like Testamentblade was alive. Also could be possible that the Oathgates don't require a living blade, but a blade bonded to a Radiant. (Which would usually mean a living blade, but Shallan's case is special.) However, all this is far-fetched to me. Personally, I think the Lightweaver oaths are less regimented as to when you "earn" your Blade. She was within reach of her next Ideal, and so could already summon the Patternblade with effort.

Real world castles were often built with dead ends, secret passages, elevated entrances, and traps all as a way to confuse anyone trying to invade the castle. My theory is that when Urithiru was alive, the walls and rooms could be rearranged for a similar purpose. Perhaps as the Sibling withdrew the tower got frozen in one of these unnatural configurations.

I am confused by what you mean, what "security sphere"? We know from Navani's prologue that Gavilar had half a dozen or so spheres. And we know from other prologues that he was practically giving them away, so it seems reasonable that they were neither valuable nor dangerous. He possibly created several such spheres as proof that he could teleport the box to Braize, and figured he could always make more.

My thoughts: * It is way too early to begin speculating on Jasnah/Wit. But then again I have never been that emotionally invested in the characters' relationships. * Jasnah becoming more Cosmere-aware and becoming a worldhopper who is involved in books past Stormlight is a theory I support. * Asking Szeth about what the Shin know and why they are so hostile is a smart move. I would be surprized to hear nobody on Team Kholin has thought of it. * Theory: the Iri joined Odium because he appeared to them and convinced them he was the One.