Furry-And-Lovable-Grover

That scene does exist. It happens in Shadesmar outside the Thaylena oathgate. Kaladin's vision goes out and he subsequently has a thought about it.

You are right and that is what I get for theory crafting blind. @Stark That's a very insightful reading reading into Rock's character. I forgot all about that offering, and it makes sense for Rock to be a Windrunner when you look at it that way. I don't really have any sort of way to dispute that at the moment.

Your point about the Perpendicularity was one I meant to include in the points I gave earlier, it was actually one of the seminal pieces of evidence that sparked the idea, but I forgot about it by the time I was able to sit down and write it. I don't think that Rock will actually end up as a Windrunner, for the simple fact that when there's the scene with all the Honorspren on the ridge, none of them seem very interested in Rock. The mixed heritage was another thing that I thought about, and it makes sense if we decide that the other Bondsmith is Fen. That covers the East and West of Roshar and Rock's heritage would be completing the Venn Diagram so to speak in that it covers both the Listeners and humans. I posted this sort of spur of the moment, and Rock only has a few POV scenes in any of the books. I don't have OB in front of me at the moment. I'll try and scrub Rock's scenes this weekend and see if I can't turn this into a respectable theory before MLK day.

Inspired by the Navani Bondsmith thread, I was thinking about it and I think that Rock is going to be a Bondsmith. Or at least has the potential to move in that direction. Lets look at the Evidence Likely the King of the Horneater Peaks One of the goals of his brother was to Unite the Horneater Peaks, a goal which Rock could easily take up. A high awareness of spren Very pious and respectful of the spren Already Radiant Does not prefer to engage in combat A hub for Bridge Four, Everyone likes him great advice makes it possible for the unit to bond over food So this is largely a crackpot theory at the moment, but at least from a cursory glance, to me at least, it seems to hold water. I would love to hear other people's thoughts and input, so get in here and try to break this theory.

Rock for BondSmith 2020

@Kav That's why I'm not trying to get sucked in here. lol

@SLNC So I'll address what I mean quickly and then away 1: That quote says to me that Adolin enjoys a life of luxury. I would happily spend my life reading, eating, sleeping, learning an instrument and working out if I could. If I didn't have to work, I certainly wouldn't. Adolin's work happens to be that of a commander on a battlefield. That entails spending lots of time doing things that aren't dueling, lounging, courting etc. because that if they aren't done, your unit's effectiveness falls off. Everything that you do while waiting to fight matters, because everything you do matters when you're in battle. The Kholin's are different from most other houses. Very martial and very dedicated. Adolin drinks the kool-aid and exemplifies what Dalinar expects from his soldiers. That spills over into your personal life. Adolin doesn't have as much time to lounge around with friends as his friends do. They don't really understand why Adolin acts the way that he does and try to leverage him as a way to change things in the warcamps. When you spend a lot of time in an environment where everything matters, it can be frustrating to hear about things that don't matter. The average "Vorin Flower" doesn't care about war and isn't interested in it. Shallan asks about something that is a huge part of Adolin's life and engages him in a way that other women don't making her much more personally interesting. 2: I am honest with my wife and tell her if I don't like the clothes she's wearing. Granted to your point, we have been together for the better part of ten years now. In those moments I mentioned, I'm usually "struck" for lack of a better word, and anything that I thought looked unflattering before does not even warrant attention. I don't notice it at the moment. 3: I do think that Adolin wants Shallan to be happy. He's an example of headstrong sexist thinking in the moment where he tried to tell Shallan to go after who he thought she really wanted. I would absolutely fight tooth and nail to keep a relationship that I cared that much about. I can't really point to something about Adolin as a character here that really explains his motivation, except to say that it felt more to me like a moment that Brandon chose to polarize Shallan and used it to try and highlight some of Shallan's growth this book. 4: Again, I have to point to the cultural difference here. The closest thing I can think of in our culture hearkens back to the church a little bit. Families who know each other, talk and decide that their kids are cute together and set them up. You could argue that both Shallan and Adolin are taken advantage of by Jasnah and Navani here. But they're two strangers that are trying to make the best of their situation and get to know someone new. 5: I can definitely see the sexual attraction between the two of them. But I also think that the types of gifts that Adolin brings and the way he engages with her shows that he values her opinion, and the fact that he opens up to her shows that he's willing to let himself be vulnerable to her. Platonic affection blooms into romantic attraction all the time, particularly when compounded by sexual attraction. I do think they'll both probably end up at least a little hurt before the whole thing susses out, but I'm comfortable with the idea of them working on a relationship together, even if a marriage is, admittedly, probably a little premature. She's going to have to explain all this to her brothers one way or another. EDIT: So yes, Adolin brought work to hang out and talk about. They don't have netflix. But he also brought food like four books about politics from countries that Shallan publicly admitted to knowing nothing about, and he mentions that he brought them because he liked them and thought she would too. @Dreamstorm Thanks! I'm glad to be here, and it's great to be able to enjoy these books with other people. My wife doesn't do high fantasy, so I don't have many IRL folks to talk with about it. You bring up good points, and I would need to go back and re-read those parts before I could say anything else there. I'm in the middle of my first re-read now.

I promised myself that I wouldn't be a part of this forum because I knew it would suck me in if I did, so I'm going to provide a few thoughts and then fly away. Shallan is a wreck. A dumpster fire even. No contest there. I will say that I think that the issues she has are conquerable issues and they will require honesty, vulnerability, work and patience on her part and those of the people that Shallan is important to. We also can't handwave and say "Shallan is an unreliable narrator" and dismiss everything we see in her perspective or other people's points we don't agree with as false, just because Shallan has issues. So far Shallan's narrative has been relatively consistent with the larger narrative of the story. If nothing in her narrative was going to be reliable, if Shallan's perspective is just a giant red-herring, then there's no good reason to be in there at all. I don't have the text in front of me, so I can't say for sure, but I was under the impression that Shallan was wearing different clothes at the point when that particular conversation happened? However, it doesn't take well fitting clothes to make someone look good to you when you're genuinely attracted to them anyways. My wife wakes up with bed head and walks around in unflattering tanktops for a good portion of her day, but a lot of the times, there's something about the way she looks that just rings my bell. Probably something to do with letting her guard down and being vulnerable. In this moment where Shallan is vulnerable and needy towards him, I can absolutely see Adolin finding her attractive. Should the entire relationship between the two be like this? Absolutely not, I agree with you. But I do think that commitment to a relationship and another person is an important part of any marriage. I think things between the two of them need to change if they are going to work out long term, but we've got a lot of Stormlight Archive left to see, and it makes sense to me that things could change for the better. Obligation has played a big part in Adolin's life as an heir and as someone who has had to look up to a distant father. He certainly is beginning to come into his own and challenge his fathers desires and look at what he wants for himself. There are a couple of instances where Shallan's unreliability aside, where it really seems like Adolin enjoys her company and makes attempts to engage with her. If he wasn't attracted to her, why bring her books or dinner? If he wasn't into her, why go through with the marriage? Sure the causal betrothal started out as a sort of matchmaking, but that doesn't mean that it has to be devoid of attraction or affection. I think Adolin's commitment issues rise out of boredom, not fear or a desire for bachelorhood. Adolin and Shallan talk at least a couple of times that I can think of off the top of my head about why he feels like he always messes things up in his relationships with the opposite sex. Would those excuses hold up in our culture? Nope, not really. In a fantasy, feudalistic society where power is the absolute standard for success and achievement, and it's okay to lie and cheat and steal and murder your way to the throne, where marriages tend to be more about securing allies? Sure, maybe. I can also say from personal experience that I picked every girl that I got into a relationship with before I met my wife. My wife and I were setup by a married couple friend of ours. I don't see blind dates or even to an extent, an arranged marriage, as an inherently broken thing. I think being open, honest, and allowing yourself to be vulnerable is a part of the process for every successful relationship. So rhetorically, I can see what you mean. I think that your line of thinking does leave out any considerations of Adolin as a soldier and a leader. One of the things that soldiers and leaders in particular are (or should be) taught is that training makes people successful and if you care about the soldiers under your command, you make sure that they're trained to handle any situation it's possible to train for. Now Shallan isn't Adolin's subordinate but I do think that Adolin cares. Shallan engages with Adolin in ways that are meaningful to him and doesn't play the part of the appropriately feminine brightlady just because she thinks that's what he wants. That behavior that Shallan may or may not be capable of was exactly why Adolin got bored, distracted, and self-sabotaged his other relationship. The affection Adolin has for her would inspire a thoughtful if not necessarily observant Adolin to train her to handle a weapon that a very small portion of people ever get to hold, since there is no reasonable expectation for her to really understand how to use it. Combat-Oriented or not, as a KR, there will be large scale conflict and small scale conflict in a war and it pays dividends to be familiar with any weapon on the battlefield. Adolin and Kaladin have that exact same conversation. It's in Adolin's wheelhouse, and certainly is probably a grounding experience for him, but regardless of an unreliable narrator, there's plenty of reason to view it at the very least in a positive light, even if it's just what Adolin feels is his duty (though if just for duty, why not just schedule her some training with someone else). Shallan might not be comfortable with the Patternblade, but in spite of her fear, she knows that training would be important so she just tries to cope (and does so poorly) and learn what she can from a teacher with plenty of experience.

Absolutely. I was totally okay with Kaladin killing Szeth. He's a soldier, it's not the first time he's had a body on the pointy end of his spear because of a mission. More than an okay ending to that conflict.

So I can't really take issue with most of what you said, but I can't agree with this example at all. Anyone who has been involved in a profession that requires some form of violence will tell you that skill is vitally important. Every example we see of Shallan fighting prior to this does have her as an underdog and at a distinct disadvantage. Shallan frequently uses her enemies expectations against them, and that is absolutely the reason that she has survived every time. Shallan has been very lucky not to have been killed already. As a matter of fact, she has survived things due to her Radiance that would have killed anyone else. Arrow to the head. Sword through the heart. When Shallan has had to confront professional killers, she has lost as often as she has won. Adolin teaching Shallan here is a practical way for Adolin to help Shallan take care of herself and show affection or maybe (if you want to call it that) an act of love, since she doesn't want to be protected or sheltered by anyone else. The text shows that the a person trying to take care of a person he cares for and not a person who is trying to make himself feel better. On your second point, Shallan hasn't outed herself as Veil to Adolin up to this point of Veil breaking, and hasn't confided in him about anything relating to her mental issues yet. For the instance in Shadesmar, it feels more to me like Adolin is trying to make her feel better by coming clean about things he feels guilty about in a situation where Shallan is trying to explain that her identity conflict is born out of her intense guilt. It's not a dismissal of Shallan's state but an expression of empathy and an opportunity for them to be vulnerable to each other. "Ash's eyes" is an expression of grief and compassion from Adolin. Like when you tell you tell your friend, "some jerkface ran over my dog" and then they say "Gee-wilikers!, that's awful." I haven't re-read Thaylenn Field yet, so I don't have any commentary here, except to say that Adolin is famous for sabotaging himself in relationships. Edit: @PhineasGage put together some of my thoughts for me relatively well on Thaylen Field.

I'll jump in and say that I feel like I'd really like to see Szeth's POV for book four, because I feel like where things went at the end of OB, focusing on Szeth's arc would be a very natural segue for the next book. As much as I expect the Eshonai's POV to really provide some depth on Listener culture and uncover some really interesting Rosharan history, I do find Szeth to be the more compelling of the two POVs at the moment. I haven't been disappointed by a Brandon book yet though, so I'll withhold judgement until I've got the book in hand.

Wit's story of Fleet. There's something about tragic determination that always tugs at my heart strings, and so the scene where Kaladin is rescuing Elhokar goes here too.

I'm going to go with the gender role thing, simply because he has a foil for Lyn in Renarin in challenging gender roles. I don't have it off hand, but I feel like I remember a WoB where he said that one of the things he wanted to do was setup the gender roles in SA as something to be challenged. I'll see if I can find it and put it in later. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/178-stormlight-three-update-2/#e3725 https://wob.coppermind.net/events/77-shadows-of-self-lansing-signing/#e6838 Edit: Additionally, Shallan is very irritable in this scene, and my reading of the scene says to me that Shallan was potentially viewing Lyn's question initially as a sort of jibe or insult. I think that if Shallan had been approached at a different time, under different circumstances that there could have been a dialogue between the two that avoided the pricklyness that Shallan shows here. I also feel like the disappointment that you point out in Lyn is Shallan noticing this and deciding that she might have been a little harsh. Upon further review, no, Shallan does not seem to care. The scene is here below, Spoilered for length since I provided some of Shallan's prior thoughts for context.

I think I'm going to go with "No" since every discussion we have of the Siblings withdrawal seems to speak to an intentional withdrawal by the Sibling itself before the Radiants left Urithiru, and nothing saying the Sibling was even around during the Recreance. That's not necessarily a given since there's very little first or second hand info on the Recreance to begin with. An aside, has there been an etymological discussion of "Recreance" as a name? Its definitely made up, but seems to have at least some sort of root that should be able to be examined for clues.

He forced the Stormfather to be a shardblade against his will. SF-Blade I think will probably make a reappearance under better circumstances in at least one of the next two books. I remember the scene as being both awesome and distressing at the same time.