Kk-

I was under the impression that lightweaving would be used to simulate multiple fake atium shadows - e.g. covering oneself with multiple illusions of oneself all acting/attacking in distinct ways so that the true atium shadow is not discernible (obviously this requires some knowledge of what an atium shadow looks like). In theory a skilled Lightweaver could probably also create illusions with their own fake atium shadows, further devaluing the use of atium. Whether or not the illusions generate their own atium shadows naturally should be largely irrelevant - adding another image to a roiling mass of bodies doesn't seem particularly viable. Obviously this is significantly beyond, say, Shallan's current level of proficiency. While I am not convinced any of the surges, blade or plate make up for steel compounding, I'm fairly sure that lightweaving should have the potential to fully negate atium in a combat scenario given sufficient stormlight. And at the end of the day, while fairly heavily favoured towards the Lord Ruler, it still probably only takes one lucky hit with Nighblood to end this fight.

One issue with the idea of Adonalsium having an intent and therefore presumably being some sort of super-shard is that the splintered normal shards have not shown any characteristics of following the same behaviour as when the current shards were created in the shattering (i.e. taking up distinct facets of the parent shard's intent), they by and large just emulate the parent (e.g. Stormfather). If Adonalsium had an intent, that implies that it is a piece of a yet greater power broken down into "super-shards", which would mean that the process - larger shard splintered into various splinters with distinct intents related to the parent - should in theory continue down to the splinters we have observed on various worlds, but that has not thus far been demonstrated.

I'll hold my head high and say that until the end of part 3 I was utterly convinced she was Betab in disguise, and busy attributing everything to her being a herald who had acquired a shardblade. Then I hopped into the part 3 reaction thread, which had about 3 responses at the time, and it hit me like a tonne of bricks.

There are a few old WoB somewhere which either state or imply that both humans and parshendi predated Honour and Cultivation on Roshar, for example: With the revelations of Oathbringer these are somewhat called into question, but more likely there were seperate strains of humanity introduced to Roshar at different points. At least onene created by Adolansium, and one introduced later by Odium. This would explain why there are such widespread and distinct half-breeds, when Oathbringer implies that there have been desolations since humans arrived on Roshar, which would give very little time for such things, especially when the two races (at least, parsh vs Odium-humans) likely saw one another entirely as enemies for large numbers of desolations. Perhaps the Alethi and other eastern humans are the original humans on Roshar, explaining why they are so well adapted to living there (tall, strong, etc), and why there are so many of them with traces of parsh blood. Kal is also referred to solely as "Child of Tanavast", implying lesser or no involvement from Odium. This would leave most likely the Iriali as Odium's people. We have WoB that they are not native, and they claim that Roshar is their fourth world, which could make sense if they have followed Odium (somewhere in the Threnodite system where Ambition was Shattered, Sel for Devotion and Dominion, and then either Yolen as their original home or else another Shard's shardworld which has been hinted at in some WoBs, although may have just been referring to Ambition, to make three). They have golden hair, a colour ascociated with him, and seem to have lore relating to Adolnasium with their talk of the One. Their whole One to One religion could also be related to Rayse's apparent intentions, to complete a cycle from Adolnasium as a single God to himself as the only remaining Shard. They have now allied themselves with Odium's forces, perhaps retaking up past alliances forgotten or hidden in the intervening years. That being said I am not sold on the whole Alethi with parsh blood or Renarin gemheart idea - I doubt that an internally bonded spren could manifest as a shardblade, and Glys was a standard truthwatcher spren, and therefore fully capable of forming a classic Nahel bond. I do not think he would then need to form a parsh styled bond with Renarin.

I'm on my way home now from the signing, and also asked a question but (predictably I suppose) got RAFO'd. Mine was: (Oathbringer spoilers)

First of all, Surgebinding as we see it from non-Renarin radiants is purely of Honour, and while certain spren that form the nahel bonds required for it are not of Honour, they are required to abide by his rules. Radiant Surgebinding is exclusively Honour’s magic system, based on the surges he found on Roshar. All the Honour-derived surges behave within similar restrictions. Honour by intent was focussed heavily on oaths, which he saw as absolutely binding and therefore constant, and the past that caused them, and this is reflected in the surges of his Radiants. For example, Radiant Progression can only grow within the expected life-cyle, or heal/restore to a past state, but cannot go beyond to cause new/unnatural growth, or heal you to a point later in your life. When Shallan lightweaves, she requires a past image to draw upon, and she often takes memories to facilitate this. Her drawings and illusions are best when they are taken or crafted from memories, and therefore the past. Similarly to growth/regrowth with Progression or the multiple lashings for Gravitation, there will be at least one other thematic power other than creating the light/sound as she currently does – perhaps something close to how Gold works in allomancy, showing some past or true version of the self, which would be integral to her getting over her current problems in later books, or else the ability to manifest visions of the past to mirror Renarin, possibly to reveal the full truth of the Recreance or early desolations. - Assuming that the core ideas here are correct, we can bring Odium in. We know from WoB that the red eyes of the parshmen and fused in WoR/OB are caused by one shard interfering with the magic system of another. I think that Voidbinding as Odium’s associated magic system will be revealed to manifest as a twisted version of whatever system is currently held in place by the shards of the worlds he invades. Odium does not wish to heavily invest where possible, and I think the idea of twisting the currently in place systems to suit his own needs fits this agenda well. This also explains the apparent “truth” of the Recreance revealed in OB – the humans coming with Odium may have used a twisted version of their previous world’s magics, “Voidbinding”, causing it to be destroyed, before taking up a new form of Rosharan Voidbinding to face the parsh people. This also presents a reason as to why the earlier Radiants were not so affected by the truth: there was an understanding, thanks to Honour, that Surgebinding was the pure form of the Voidbinding they had used against the parsh people during the first desolation, and not the same art that had caused the destruction of their previous world. He failed to make this distinction as he began to grow more affected by his shard towards the end of his fight with Odium, eventually leading to the Recreance, when men no longer saw the distinction between the two. The basis for this theory comes largely from the Surgebinding and Voidbinding diagrams – the Surgebinding glyphs are all symmetrical, and indeed the Vorins worship symmetry, which in essence is predictable and implies constancy. To me, the half-flipped open ended Voidbinding glyphs imply that they are warped from the original intention, or left open to new interpretation. As the self-proclaimed shard of Passion, and therefore emotion, it makes sense that Odium's magic system should be almost contemptuous of the already established systems, making mockery of other invested beings’ abilities. I also posit that the tenth, secret name for the Almighty, “he who transforms”, is actually a relic of Odium worship among the humans on their previous world – referring to his ability to warp the currently in place systems to his own ends. - Moving on to Renarin. Renarin, who has bonded a Truthwatcher spren corrupted by Sja-anat, and therefore of both Odium and Honour, should exhibit at the very least one corrupted surge. Either he will have access to normal Progression and a warped version of illumination, or to all four. So far, he has demonstrated similar regrowth to Lift, being able to heal the wounded. If he manifests some form of Odium influenced Progression, perhaps he will be able to force mutation in plants or animals, or artificially age people. I think it is more likely he will stick to normal Honour-derived Progression, although his other surge may interfere. Renarin’s Illumination surge was the major giveaway that something was different about him, as it is repeatedly stated that seeing the future is of Odium. The future is illuminated for Renarin in visions of stained glass, allowing him to predict events, future change that Honour’s constancy could not reveal. He has also been proven inaccurate, which is due to his own nature as a sort of half-breed Radiant – as he is trapped between Odium and Honour, he is blind to himself in his own Odium based visions in the same manner as Odium fails to see him in the diagram, and as such any predictions he makes where he has personal involvement are unreliable, similarly to two Mistborn burning Atium. He also seems to be able to create images like Shallan’s, although his method, or when they take place, has not yet been revealed. Personally I think it will relate to his visions, allowing him to create illusions of the things he has seen in the future, or else imitate the present which I expect to be a common ground. Renarin has also shown the ability to somehow finish off a wounded thunderclast using light, ostensibly from his illumination surge. Possibly he is using some form of progression and illumination to enforce his own truth on the thunderclast, or it may be related to his resonance. Speaking of resonance, Renarin will probably display something unique as his combination of surges is new ground – an interaction between both two surges and two shards. In conclusion, I think that Voidbinding is a generic art that manifests as a corruption of local magics, and on Roshar is related to the ten Surgebinding surges, but extrapolated towards change and the unknown to mock Honour's consistency. This explains the pre-Recreance stability, why the fused are able to imitate the Radiant surges to an extent, as well as the warping of Renarin’s abilities as a corrupted Truthwatcher while displaying some abilities more in line with the expected. Hopefully you enjoyed the sweeping assumptions made in this crackpot theory, and I hope that adherence to the Assuredness Movement has thoroughly convinced you of my correctness, although realistically I do think some of the ideas have merit.

Finished about an hour ago, loved the book overall. I had intended to start at the beginning but found myself downloading the ebook and jumping into the interludes at midnight last night . First time posting on the forums, but I need to get some thoughts/theories out of my head from my probably much too fast read-through: I'm kind of glad we didn't see Kaladin swear his fourth oath in OB, it gave the others some much needed time in the spot light, and it feels he would be running out of steam approaching books 4 and 5 having gone Surgebinding>Blade>Plate in the first three. Teft's oath really choked me up. The missing unmade is possibly the third bondsmith spren, perhaps providing precedence for Sja-anat's (assuming I am not mixing names) apparent defection. While Adolin's perspective as a non-radiant fighter can be refreshing, I think that it's pretty likely that he will awaken his blade at some point, even if he doesn't become a surgebinder as a result.The events of the book, along with the fact that of all the orders, the Edgedancer oaths seem extremely appropriate to the revival of a dead blade, as well as their surge being regrowth, lead me to expect it in the coming books. I wonder if humans are an intrinsic part of Rayse's method of shattering other shards, or if his arrival with them in this case was a one-off thing. I was really hoping to see Elhokar given the opportunity to become the man he wanted to be, so his death was dissapointing to me. I like the idea that the spren Wit found in the epilogue was perhaps the one he was beginning to bond. Some more Cosmere spoilery stuff: